West Virginia

[wriddle082]

Governor Morrisey had a press conference today regarding WVDOT/DOH. In short, the department is broke. He announced a general halt on new construction, including perhaps stopping some projects currently underway, and a focus on maintenance and improving bridges.

https://www.wboy.com/news/west-virginia/gov-morrisey-announces-overhaul-of-west-virginia-dot-to-reduce-debt-save-money/

The governor talks about wanting counties to financially contribute to new projects, which is a practical impossibility for most counties. Only a handful in growth areas (Monongalia, Berkeley, Jefferson, primarily) have any financial capacity to do anything like this.

Video of the full press conference is at https://x.com/wvgovernor/status/1932093467917717528

Guess that means the Berkeley Springs bypass might become the road to nowhere?

I certainly hope not!  A couple of months ago I happened to be traveling US 522 north through there on a Wednesday afternoon around 2 PM and was stuck in gridlock for nearly 20 minutes (work travel from Norfolk, VA to New Philadelphia, OH; one of more interesting trips I've had recently).  I don't think it was because of an accident either, but rather school zones and poorly timed traffic signals.  The full bypass will be a huge relief for that area once finished.

[Bitmapped]

As long as they continue to repave/repair pretty much all of I-77 from Downtown Charleston to Ravenswood, I'm all for it.  But this probably dooms the Coalfields and King Coal Expressways, and hopefully doesn't doom finishing Corridor H but probably does.  Also hope they don't halt the current widening of US 19 south of Beckley, which appears to be desperately needed.

They really ought to find a way to offload pavement maintenance of most county fractional routes to the counties, but still provide support for bridges up to and including replacement.

The counties don't have money to take over road maintenance. Many can't pay their existing bills - a number owe the state money for regional jail inmate fees that they can't afford to pay. The whole reason the state took over county roads in the 1930s was because constitutionally-imposed limits on property taxes knee-capped counties, and that limit is still there.

WV has a significant funding shortfall. The gas tax needs to go up. But DOH also needs to be a lot more efficient in maintaining what it has. The distribution of funds between districts is in equitable and shortchanges Districts 4, 6, and to an extent, 5, in the northern part of the state. Districts 4 and 6 have arterials that have crater-sized potholes, while other districts are putting down brand new asphalt on alleys and back roads with 50 cars per day.

DOH almost never uses low-cost pavement life extension strategies. They've started a little bit of microsurfacing on Interstates in the last couple years, but existing asphalt never gets chip-sealed even though surrounding states use it widely to protect pavements and nearly all of West Virginia's road network is lowly-trafficked enough that it would hold up fine.

With the county routes, DOH needs to rationalize its network. There are a lot of roads that still technically exist but are impassible. Get them off the books. See if HARP roads can be pushed back onto the adjoining property owners that were responsible for them before the state stepped in. Look in rural areas at roads that only serve 1-2 property owners and push them off onto them. In incorporated areas, seek to turn over county routes to the local government.

[SP Cook]

IMHO,

- This was not unexpected.  In the four way primary, which is the real election here now, PM made it clear that he was opposed most of the JJ roads program.

- Things now under contract are not going to be abandoned. 

- County roads have been an issue for a long as I can remember.  It is 100% correct that counties have no money.  The only major county tax revenue source is the property tax and 72% of that goes to the school boards.  That leaves the county commission with enough to run the courthouse functions and staff the sheriffs who are the basic law enforcement in rural areas.  There is no county road department and downloading smaller roads would take constitutional changes and moving people and equipment from the DOH to these new agencies, and that just isn't going to happen.

- Thus I think that's what PM is talking about is not that, but rather specific counties voting in something like an excess levy or a dedicated sales tax for a specific local project, which would be a rare thing.  This model does not really work for thru highways, which would be used by those not paying for them, but for things like new exits, access roads, turn lanes, etc.


As far as my guess of the status of current projects:

US 522 bypass will be finished, but any idea about four lane from VA to MD is dead for now.  The locals don't want it anyway.

Corridor H is going to be finished.  ARC $$ and decades of political history and fighting are bigger than any one governor.

WV,not US 121 will end at Pineville, probably forever. 

The US 52 four lane is dead. 

Six lane upgrade to I 64 currently under construction is obviously going to be finished, the other sections from MP 11 to 6, and MP 20 to 39,are probably done for this governor, but will have to be built eventually.

The Z Way project, is too far along to be killed now.

I am OK with most of this, once Corridor H is finished, the era of big virgin land new expressways is done for the rest of my lifetime, but look at a map and tell me where the needs are.  The Coalfields Expressway and King Coal Highways never really served a purpose.  No one lives there anymore and existing roads between the end points are already built, assuming Virginia builds Corridor Q.

[Beltway]

US 522 bypass will be finished, but any idea about four lane from VA to MD is dead for now.  The locals don't want it anyway.

There is a 2,600 foot long 1950s vintage 2-lane bridge over the Potomac River and floodplain and a railroad yard -- most of which is in Maryland.

Another ~2,000 feet of 4-lane widening is needed to connect that to a proper connection with I-70.

So Maryland would need to get on board as well.

[I-55]

I am OK with most of this, once Corridor H is finished, the era of big virgin land new expressways is done for the rest of my lifetime, but look at a map and tell me where the needs are.  The Coalfields Expressway and King Coal Highways never really served a purpose.  No one lives there anymore and existing roads between the end points are already built, assuming Virginia builds Corridor Q.

The only real need I see at the moment is improvements to WV 2 between WV 193 and US 35 due to the construction of the $3.1 billion Nucor steel mill. The existing road is mostly winding, narrow state road with no shoulders (aside from the stretch between Lesage and Guyan Creek which has 10' shoulders). Add in the poor pavement quality in Mason Co. and I don't see this road supporting the truck traffic the plant will generate. The improvements don't necessarily need to consist of 4-lane widening, though there may be a future to support that. Mostly just modern 2-lane road with shoulders and some alignment straightening. There are areas I think this may need to take a new terrain alignment, but if Apple Grove can pull a steel mill, there's potential for a lot of other stuff to move i in the not too distant future

[GCrites]

WV has a significant funding shortfall. The gas tax needs to go up. But DOH also needs to be a lot more efficient in maintaining what it has. The distribution of funds between districts is in equitable and shortchanges Districts 4, 6, and to an extent, 5, in the northern part of the state. Districts 4 and 6 have arterials that have crater-sized potholes, while other districts are putting down brand new asphalt on alleys and back roads with 50 cars per day.

Does the rest of the state not like Wheeling and the northern panhandle? I'm starting to get that sense, though it has taken me 25 years of watching to start to see it.

[Bitmapped]

Does the rest of the state not like Wheeling and the northern panhandle? I'm starting to get that sense, though it has taken me 25 years of watching to start to see it.

Not so much a dislike of the Northern Panhandle as decades of the state's political structure largely being populated from the southern half of the state.

For what it's worth, there was an effort a couple years ago to fix DOH's funding distribution formula between districts. It passed out of the legislature but then-governor Jim Justice vetoed it.

[hbelkins]

Does the rest of the state not like Wheeling and the northern panhandle? I'm starting to get that sense, though it has taken me 25 years of watching to start to see it.

The northern panhandle is pretty well-served with US 30, US 22, I-70, and I-470. The only real needs there are along WV 2, but I'd guess that most through north-south traffic shunts over to OH  7.

[Bitmapped]

Does the rest of the state not like Wheeling and the northern panhandle? I'm starting to get that sense, though it has taken me 25 years of watching to start to see it.

The northern panhandle is pretty well-served with US 30, US 22, I-70, and I-470. The only real needs there are along WV 2, but I'd guess that most through north-south traffic shunts over to OH  7.

The problem isn't so much in building things as in maintaining them.

[SP Cook]

Does the rest of the state not like Wheeling and the northern panhandle? I'm starting to get that sense, though it has taken me 25 years of watching to start to see it.

It's complicated, but IMHO, people from every part of the state all feel their area is overlooked.  The only part that really has, or had, a gripe is the general Corridor H area, which was ansestorally Republican, when the rest of the state was not.

The thing to get is PM is based in the eastern panhandle.  Look at a map, eastern panhandlers are not going to use the expressways in the main part of the state, excepting maybe to access Morgantown, and most of that travel is in Maryland.  If they go on vacation or whatever, they are using roads in other states.  Unless someone over there is in politics, or some job where they have like a statewide meeting, or have kids in HS sports, many have never been in the main part of WV, ever.

What I tell people is that the different parts of WV are much more like the people in the states they border, than one another.  Where I grew up is much more like eastern KY than any other part of WV, and where I have lived my adult life is much more like southeastern Ohio.  Wheeling is pretty much culturally Pittsburgh and that is very culturally different from most of the rest of the state.

[Beltway]

The thing to get is PM is based in the eastern panhandle.  Look at a map, eastern panhandlers are not going to use the expressways in the main part of the state, excepting maybe to access Morgantown, and most of that travel is in Maryland.  If they go on vacation or whatever, they are using roads in other states.  Unless someone over there is in politics, or some job where they have like a statewide meeting, or have kids in HS sports, many have never been in the main part of WV, ever.

The Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia is in the Baltimore-Washington commuter shed. Over 200 miles as the crow flies from Charleston WV.

The Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia — Morgan, Berkeley, and Jefferson Counties — is not officially part of the Baltimore metropolitan area but is included in the broader Washington-Baltimore-Arlington, DC-MD-VA-WV-PA Combined Statistical Area, per the U.S. Office of Management and Budget.

Berkeley and Jefferson Counties are tied to the Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV MSA, while Morgan County falls under the Hagerstown-Martinsburg, MD-WV MSA, which links to Baltimore's economic orbit. The region's just 45-60 minutes from Baltimore, with Martinsburg's 17,227 residents (2010) commuting to both D.C. and Baltimore for lower housing costs. However, its rural vibe sets it apart from Baltimore's urban sprawl. It's more D.C.'s exurban fringe than Baltimore's, though economic ties exist.

[Bitmapped]

The thing to get is PM is based in the eastern panhandle.  Look at a map, eastern panhandlers are not going to use the expressways in the main part of the state, excepting maybe to access Morgantown, and most of that travel is in Maryland.  If they go on vacation or whatever, they are using roads in other states.  Unless someone over there is in politics, or some job where they have like a statewide meeting, or have kids in HS sports, many have never been in the main part of WV, ever.

The Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia is in the Baltimore-Washington commuter shed. Over 200 miles as the crow flies from Charleston WV.

The Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia — Morgan, Berkeley, and Jefferson Counties — is not officially part of the Baltimore metropolitan area but is included in the broader Washington-Baltimore-Arlington, DC-MD-VA-WV-PA Combined Statistical Area, per the U.S. Office of Management and Budget.

Berkeley and Jefferson Counties are tied to the Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV MSA, while Morgan County falls under the Hagerstown-Martinsburg, MD-WV MSA, which links to Baltimore's economic orbit. The region's just 45-60 minutes from Baltimore, with Martinsburg's 17,227 residents (2010) commuting to both D.C. and Baltimore for lower housing costs. However, its rural vibe sets it apart from Baltimore's urban sprawl. It's more D.C.'s exurban fringe than Baltimore's, though economic ties exist.

Berkeley County (county seat of Martinsburg) is in the Hagerstown-Martinsburg MSA along with Morgan County (Berkeley Springs). None of the counties are in Baltimore's orbit in any real sense; they are tied to DC either directly or via Hagerstown and Frederick, although most of Morgan County is more associated with Winchester and Cumberland than Hagerstown/east.

[Dirt Roads]

The thing to get is PM is based in the eastern panhandle.  Look at a map, eastern panhandlers are not going to use the expressways in the main part of the state, excepting maybe to access Morgantown, and most of that travel is in Maryland.  If they go on vacation or whatever, they are using roads in other states.  Unless someone over there is in politics, or some job where they have like a statewide meeting, or have kids in HS sports, many have never been in the main part of WV, ever.

Yes indeed.  This season, Berkeley County schools are keeping the highways busy heading to Charleston to compete for the AAA State Championships.  Martinsburg won the football championship against crosstown rival Spring Mills.  Then Spring Mills defeated Martinsburg in the basketball quarterfinals on its way to the state title.  Then all four county schools faced off in the baseball regionals (along with Jefferson County twins Washington High and Jefferson High), with Hedgesville getting beat in the semifinals by title-winner Hurricane [which just happens to be the other school in my neck of the woods].

Sad that all these folks had to go a long ways through Maryland to get to the games in Charleston.  But that is sure way better than when most of these folks stayed (mostly) in-state to get to the Capitol City back in my younger days.  (US-50 clips off a hair more than 9 miles across the southern tip of Garrett County, Maryland).

[Beltway]

Berkeley County (county seat of Martinsburg) is in the Hagerstown-Martinsburg MSA along with Morgan County (Berkeley Springs). None of the counties are in Baltimore's orbit in any real sense; they are tied to DC either directly or via Hagerstown and Frederick, although most of Morgan County is more associated with Winchester and Cumberland than Hagerstown/east.

Still about the same distance and an easy commute to the Baltimore area.

I have family in Frederick MD and nowadays is outer suburbs to both Washington and Baltimore.

[Black-Man]

The counties don't have money to take over road maintenance. Many can't pay their existing bills - a number owe the state money for regional jail inmate fees that they can't afford to pay. The whole reason the state took over county roads in the 1930s was because constitutionally-imposed limits on property taxes knee-capped counties, and that limit is still there.

Well... maybe they could start with the cities taking over the maintenance/construction of local roads within their jurisdiction. Cities floating capital bond levies is normal. City of Columbus just issued a $1.9 BILLION bond levy for capital improvements - sidewalks, roads, etc. No new tax required. This madness needs to end. Just because it's a bad idea started during the depression, it still makes it a bad idea.

[Bitmapped]

The counties don't have money to take over road maintenance. Many can't pay their existing bills - a number owe the state money for regional jail inmate fees that they can't afford to pay. The whole reason the state took over county roads in the 1930s was because constitutionally-imposed limits on property taxes knee-capped counties, and that limit is still there.

Well... maybe they could start with the cities taking over the maintenance/construction of local roads within their jurisdiction. Cities floating capital bond levies is normal. City of Columbus just issued a $1.9 BILLION bond levy for capital improvements - sidewalks, roads, etc. No new tax required. This madness needs to end. Just because it's a bad idea started during the depression, it still makes it a bad idea.

The vast majority of cities and towns already have their own street networks. WVDOH owns and maintains state, US, and connecting county routes, with the municipality handling other streets. In some smaller towns, DOH does own and maintain the full road network.

The West Virginia constitution has a limitation on municipal property tax rates, just as it does for counties. Cities have a couple other sources of taxation available to them (B&O and/or sales taxes) but they are relatively insignificant for smaller towns.

Your suggestion that bonds don't require new taxes is just plain wrong. Money has to come from somewhere to pay the debt service on bonds. You get the cash up front, but you're going to be paying it back (with interest) for decades and there has to be a revenue stream to support that. Because of the interest expenses, bonds aren't an appropriate way to pay ongoing maintenance expenses either.

Even if you were to remove the tax rate limitations, most of the state is rural and lightly populated. There isn't enough of a tax base to support the needed road maintenance in many counties. You'd end up with a bunch of clones of Monroe County, Ohio, where most roads that aren't a state route are gravel.

[vdeane]

The more and more this conversation circles around and the more and more the cap on municipal/county tax rates come up, the more and more I believe that the true problem is that taxes are too low in West Virginia.

[GCrites]

Yeah if you cap everything then have a bunch of areas with little business activity and low property values how are you going to pay for anything? You've limited yourself in revenue sources everywhere you turn.

[Bitmapped]

Yeah if you cap everything then have a bunch of areas with little business activity and low property values how are you going to pay for anything? You've limited yourself in revenue sources everywhere you turn.

This is why things are funded at the state level and not the local level. Taxes need to go up at the state level because much of the state does not have enough tax base to fund roads locally.

The governor is talking about financial contributions from counties for new construction. For some projects, like the King Coal Highway or Corridor H, if you're going to build them, they're going to have to be funded without local dollars. Tucker County has 6700 residents and 53% of it is government-owned non-taxable land. It's never going to be able to contribute to building Corridor H.

There are other projects, like widening of WV 9, that are needed due to growth. The growing areas (primarily around Morgantown and the Eastern Panhandle) do tend to be the wealthier parts of the state. It might work to allow counties or regions to levy additional sales or income tax to provide local shares of funding for these projects. That being said, if local governments are coughing up money, they're going to expect real input into what happens. This would be a sea change for DOH, which currently essentially dictates to MPOs what their transportation plans are to be.