Reversed Breezewoods

[roadman65]

In Newark, NJ there seems to be a place where you enter an interstate to go between two expressways that are not interstate.  If you travel between NJ 21 South and US 1 & 9 North, you are directed onto I-78 Eastbound to make those movements since the NJ 21/ US 22/ US 1 & 9 interchange was reconfigured some time ago. Even before the reconfiguring a u turn was required to go from SB NJ 21 to NB US 1 & 9 Local, but now its done by entering the I-78 Freeway proper and proceed one full exit.

This here is an oddity as using interstate freeways to connect between non interstates to form a movement between them as usually its surface streets, or some other arterial to get between freeways such as Breezewood.

Any others that have you use a interstate or freeway to complete a movement between to other roads?

[NE2]

Since NJ 21 and US 1-9 are freeways here, it's hardly surprising that you use another freeway to connect between them at a complicated interchange.

But this isn't really what a "reverse Breezewood" is. I-66 and I-495 isn't a "Breezewood" just because you have to use SR 267 to make two movements.

[1995hoo]

I think NE2 seems to have a valid point. The issue at Breezewood is not so much that you have to use a non-Interstate to continue on I-70 so much as it is that you have to use a surface street to continue on I-70. After all, if I-70 briefly joined with an "Interstate look-alike," but the I-70 number weren't posted for whatever reason, to connect, it'd be less remarkable (and far less annoying) than having to stop at that traffic light below the McDonald's with the "No Turn on Red" restriction, right?

It seems a "Reverse Breezewood" should be a situation where you have to use a freeway-class road to go from one surface street to another. Perhaps freeway on-ramps and off-ramps might be included in that?

One possible scenario that comes to mind is National Harbor in PG County, Maryland. It's a new development you can see at the bottom left of this satellite view: http://goo.gl/maps/FGHpv  You cannot connect to any of the nearby surface streets without using the freeway ramps, although you don't actually have to get onto the Beltway or I-295. I'm not entirely sure whether this qualifies as a "Reverse Breezewood," but it seems fairly close. (I rode my bike on the access road to connect from, and back to, the Wilson Bridge bike trail because my tires weren't suited for the crushed gravel path closest to National Harbor. That was a scary experience I wouldn't care to repeat. People treat the access roads as though they're Interstates in terms of how fast they go and they're not looking for cyclists.)

[lordsutch]

Something like 38th Street in Indianapolis comes to mind; the section along I-65 that functions as a C/D roadway for I-65 effectively is a freeway, and there's no convenient alternative for non-motorized traffic.

Relocated SR 96 in Warner Robins will have a two-mile section that forbids bikes and pedestrians around an interchange at US 129/SR 247 - in the middle of sections with bike lanes and sidewalks - but at least the old SR 96 will be a designated alternative, and the unsigned state Bike Route 40 will follow the old route in this area.

[NE2]

Similar to National Harbor: the Stony Point mall and surrounding area near Richmond is only accessible from the SR 150 freeway, though it looks simple enough to go around the gate on the northeast side to get out at Cherokee Road.

I think a more interesting case would be where two non-freeways cross, yet you must use a freeway to connect. There are probably a fair number of cases on almost-freeways, either Jersey freeways or surface expressways, but what about true surface streets? This in Perth Amboy appears to qualify, if you count C/D roads (you can't turn left directly without a dangerous and possibly illegal movement).

[1995hoo]

Similar to National Harbor: the Stony Point mall and surrounding area near Richmond is only accessible from the SR 150 freeway, though it looks simple enough to go around the gate on the northeast side to get out at Cherokee Road.

I think a more interesting case would be where two non-freeways cross, yet you must use a freeway to connect. There are probably a fair number of cases on almost-freeways, either Jersey freeways or surface expressways, but what about true surface streets? This in Perth Amboy appears to qualify, if you count C/D roads (you can't turn left directly without a dangerous and possibly illegal movement).

Heh. Looking at that satellite view from Perth Amboy, I see a guy making that "dangerous and possibly illegal movement."

[GCrites]

I always seem to find these at the exact times I DO NOT want to be on an interstate. Like when I have a bed full of brush, am pulling a heavy trailer or trying to find a gas station.

[Henry]

Before I-277 was built around Charlotte's center city, US 74 ran on West Independence Boulevard south of it. Now you need to use I-277 just to get from Wilkinson Boulevard to Carson Boulevard, which are just two remnants of the former West Independence, while US 74 continues straight onto the freeway to the still-in-existence East Independence.

[NE2]

Before I-277 was built around Charlotte's center city, US 74 ran on West Independence Boulevard south of it. Now you need to use I-277 just to get from Wilkinson Boulevard to Carson Boulevard,

Or you can use Morehead. Better than most instances of a surface street upgraded on the spot.

[briantroutman]

Though it's not the continuation of a single named street, the first situation that came to mind is the surface road linking Sausalito and Mill Valley, California. With the possible exception of some old logging trails, there is no auto route between the two that doesn't involve driving up the US 101 on-ramp and then off the following off-ramp.

But it appears this configuration has been in place for a long time. An aerial photo from 1946 and a topo map from 1941 both suggest that this segment was already a freeway in nearly its present configuration. The next oldest topo map in the USGS library is from 1897, which doesn't help much.

[agentsteel53]

I find lots of these while attempting to scour for old alignments, where the freeway cuts the old road in half.

but I don't think any of them are navigationally the most optimal: most people would be staying on the freeway no matter what.

that said, a lot of bridges serve as funnels, and if they are a freeway bridge, they meet this criterion.  for example, just south of Sausalito is an orange suspension bridge of some renown that needs to be crossed to drive from the surface streets of San Francisco to the surface streets of Sausalito.

[Gnutella]

The Birmingham Bridge in Pittsburgh could be a "reverse Breezewood." It's a six-lane, highway-grade bridge that connects two surface streets on each side of the Monongahela River.

[cl94]

Bringing up something from the Breezewoods thread, there are a couple in Columbus, OH. One is this intersection, right in the middle of the I-70/US 33/SR 104 nonsense, with residents residing in one of the adjacent apartment complexes must use expressway/freeway-grade US 33 to access the rest of civilization. Another is Haul Rd, an industrial street that is only accessible via the SR 104 expressway.

Near Buffalo, Grand Island, NY is connected to the rest of the world by I-190 and its toll bridges. Given this status, these bridges allow vehicles, including animal-drawn ones, that are not typically allowed on Interstate highways.

[hotdogPi]

I'm not sure if I understand this, but this might be an example. To get from RI 99 to I-295, you need to go in the C/D lanes of RI 146, but you don't get onto RI 146 itself.

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=RI-99+S&daddr=I-295+S&hl=en&ll=41.947969,-71.479282&spn=0.018193,0.027337&sll=41.942295,-71.482801&sspn=0.004549,0.006834&geocode=FX9KgAIdkz29-w%3BFab7fwIdyjy9-w&mra=me&mrsp=1,0&sz=17&t=m&z=15

[GaryV]

Maybe I'm not sure of the concept here.

Are you talking about where a non-Interstate route joins the Interstate for a while?  There's many of these.

In MI, I can think of M-55/I-75, US-23/I-75 (although both of them are freeways), M-46/US-131 (OK, not an Interstate, but a non-freeway state highway runs concurrently on the freeway).  And probably several more.

[Sam]

Grand Island, NY is connected to the rest of the world by I-190 and its toll bridges.

I was going to mention the Grand Island bridges. The only way to follow NY 324 between Tonawanda and Niagara Falls was to enter and exit the Thruway system. NY 324 has since been truncated so only the South bridge carries both routes today.

[roadman65]

Since NJ 21 and US 1-9 are freeways here, it's hardly surprising that you use another freeway to connect between them at a complicated interchange.

But this isn't really what a "reverse Breezewood" is. I-66 and I-495 isn't a "Breezewood" just because you have to use SR 267 to make two movements.

You really cannot consider NJ 21 a freeway here.  It is only a glorified viaduct that is multilaned here which is less than a mile.   If it were longer I would say so.

Since NJ 21 and US 1-9 are freeways here, it's hardly surprising that you use another freeway to connect between them at a complicated interchange.

But this isn't really what a "reverse Breezewood" is. I-66 and I-495 isn't a "Breezewood" just because you have to use SR 267 to make two movements.

NJ 21 is not a freeway here as McCarter Highway has several at grade intersections here.  US 1 & 9 is iffy as it is not a full freeway south of US 1 & 9 as it has rental car places, hotels, and even Anheiser Bucsh, but I will give that part.

Let me rephrase this one then.  I should have known that this was coming when I worded the title.    Anyway, I do not see in my travels places that a state or a US route from a lower grade uses an interstate proper to make a connection between another US or state route.

Remember, both NJ 21 and I-78 are lower grade freeways (if you could call NJ 21 one, but we all the know the real reason why NE 2 made that statement anyway).  Even though US 1 & 9 counts as a freeway it still is a lower grade and not interstate.

No Grand Island Bridge is NOT the connection I was looking for.  I am looking for a freeway that connects two specific non interstate roads.  Also C/D roadways do not count as they make up a lot of connections between two specific roadways specifically along a linear line.

No I am looking for two major arteries that run in different directions that use an interstate freeway.  Reverse Breezewood is just a grabber or an attention getter, but I think it is obvious to what I mean.  The NJ 21 situation is relatively rare, from what I have seen and I was wondering all the other rare cases that two routes meet properly and need an interstate to make the one movement.

[bzakharin]

US 1 in PA has a short multiplex with I-76, but is a full freeway north of the multiplex, so it might not really count. US 9 uses some Garden State Parkway bridges, when it (US 9) is not a freeway on either side. Likewise, US 40 briefly joins I-295 (and even more briefly the NJ Turnpike) to get from Delaware into NJ.

[NE2]

we all the know the real reason why NE 2 made that statement anyway

How dare you bring my skin color into this?

Seriously, by including freeways as one or both roads, you make the question silly. Let's see... Florida's Turnpike crosses Kirkman Road, but you have to use I-4 to make the connection. The ramp from NJ 124 west to NJ 24 west merges into the I-78 local lanes. There's a direct ramp from the Garden State Parkway north to Pascack Road at the north end, but to do the reverse movement you have to use I-87/287. Access from Pelham Parkway west to the northbound Hutch is via I-95. The Wilbur Cross north to Route 66 east is via I-91.

[cl94]

How is Grand Island not one? The bridge was a surface street when it was built.

[vdeane]

No I am looking for two major arteries that run in different directions that use an interstate freeway.  Reverse Breezewood is just a grabber or an attention getter, but I think it is obvious to what I mean.  The NJ 21 situation is relatively rare, from what I have seen and I was wondering all the other rare cases that two routes meet properly and need an interstate to make the one movement.

A street view link to what you're referring to might help.

[TEG24601]

The new 'official' route of US-26 through Portland now uses I-405 to go 1 or two exits, instead of city streets.  However, this section of road has been poorly signed since at least 2002, and has always been difficult to figure out, especially since there were (and likely are) movement that run through a residential neighborhood.  I haven't been driving through Portland in years, as I learned to embrace the Train and MAX when I go on vacation.

[NE2]

He's not talking about overlaps of non-Interstates on Interstates.

[vtk]

... in Columbus, OH ... is Haul Rd, an industrial street that is only accessible via the SR 104 expressway freeway.

A few years ago this might have been dismissed by pointing out Haul Rd is little more than a glorified driveway for some earthbending industries, but now there's also Impound Lot Rd and the city vehicle impound lot which are only accessible from Haul Rd and 104.  I find it ironic that if your car is impounded, you'll find it in a place accessible only by car.

[GCrites]

A cruel irony.