South Dakota county changes name

[bandit957]

I have a rather interesting note for county collectors far and wide resulting from yesterday's election.

Shannon County, South Dakota, had a referendum to change its name to Oglala Lakota County. It passed with 80%. The name change is official.

[Scott5114]

According to some articles I dredged up from Google, the name change will only be official when the state Legislature approves it. It is expected to bring a bill doing so forward in the upcoming 2015 session. I don't know the political situation in SD but I can't imagine the legislature refusing to do something 80% of the population supports.

[hbelkins]

Why is this happening?

[NE2]

According to some articles I dredged up from Google, the name change will only be official when the state Legislature approves it. It is expected to bring a bill doing so forward in the upcoming 2015 session. I don't know the political situation in SD but I can't imagine the legislature refusing to do something 80% of the population supports.

80% of the population of the county, which happens to be 94% Indian and about 90% Democrat. The legislature is 77% Repub.

sup politics

[bandit957]

Why is this happening?

Because it was named after Peter Shannon, who was involved in swindling the Lakota people out of their land.

[bandit957]

As far as I'm concerned, the legislature doesn't have to approve it for me to recognize it.

It's the people's county. It's not the legislature's county.

[Scott5114]

Sure, but this is hardly more significant than the bills that pass through the US Congress to rename the post office in Slartibartfast, Alabama to the James B. "Farty" McFlostersham Memorial Post Office. Those type of bills tend to pass Congress unopposed. Renaming a county is fairly cheap, is overwhelmingly supported by the population affected, and barely affects the rest of the state outside Shannon/Oglala Lakota County.

H.B.: Shannon County entirely lies within the Pine Ridge reservation, which is home to the Oglala Lakota tribe. Shannon County was named after a Peter C. Shannon, who was on the Supreme Court of the Dakota Territory. Presumably the Oglala Lakotas of the time period had little involvement with the territorial government that wasn't confrontational, so they feel like their county would be better off named after their tribe than a judge from what is likely viewed as a foreign government.

bandit: A county is, in most instances, a mere political construct by the state government to devolve certain powers to more localized control. Unlike the United States, where states existed before the federal government and came together to form one country, a state or territory starts as a blank slate with no counties and is only divided up into them afterward at the pleasure of the state government. The process of forming a county varies from state to state but that process is set by state law or state constitution. Some New England states have entirely abolished their counties as political (rather than geographic) entities.

[US71]

As far as I'm concerned, the legislature doesn't have to approve it for me to recognize it.

It's the people's county. It's not the legislature's county.

[bandit957]

bandit: A county is, in most instances, a mere political construct by the state government to devolve certain powers to more localized control. Unlike the United States, where states existed before the federal government and came together to form one country, a state or territory starts as a blank slate with no counties and is only divided up into them afterward at the pleasure of the state government. The process of forming a county varies from state to state but that process is set by state law or state constitution. Some New England states have entirely abolished their counties as political (rather than geographic) entities.

But it's the people's county. Not mine. Not the legislature's.

The people of Oglala Lakota County want it to be called Oglala Lakota County. I go by what the county says. Not by what the legislature says.

Besides that, the entire county is on the Pine Ridge reservation - which itself is its own sovereign territory.

[oscar]

County-counting sites, like mob-rule.com, will likely wait for the Census Bureau to recognize the change on its Substantial Changes to Counties, etc. page.  That includes county name changes or corrections like for the renaming of Florida's Dade County to Miami-Dade, or fixing a typo in entries for Doña Ana County, New Mexico. 

The Census Bureau will figure out if and when the name change takes effect, including who (if anyone) else must sign off on it.  That recognition sometimes takes awhile, as it did for the disputed creation of Alaska's Petersburg Borough (but it helps if no boundary change is involved, as with the new Petersburg Borough). 

[Pete from Boston]

The Census Bureau will figure out if and when the name change takes effect, including who (if anyone) else must sign off on it.  That recognition sometimes takes awhile, as it did for the disputed creation of Alaska's Petersburg Borough (but it helps if no boundary change is involved, as with the new Petersburg Borough).

The Census Bureau decides if a place's name changes?  That can't be right. 

[golden eagle]

I didn't think the Census Bureau could change it, either.

There was a small push some time ago to rename Forrest County, MS. It's named for Nathan Bedford Forrest, founder of the KKK.

[kkt]

As far as I'm concerned, the legislature doesn't have to approve it for me to recognize it.

It's the people's county. It's not the legislature's county.

That may be the people's opinion.  It is not the legislature's opinion.

[oscar]

The Census Bureau decides if a place's name changes?  That can't be right.

No, it only decides whether a place name change is official enough to be recognized for census purposes.  It doesn't have veto power, but if there is a dispute about whether the name change is legally valid, it will wait for the dispute to be resolved.

County name changes don't necessarily require state legislative approval, though I don't know if they do in South Dakota.  In Alaska, even the creation of new boroughs usually doesn't involve the state legislature -- it requires only state agency approval, followed by approval by the new borough's residents, which takes effect (if the borough proposal wins, which sometimes doesn't happen) immediately upon certification of the election results 15 days after the election is held.

[bandit957]

As far as I'm concerned, the legislature doesn't have to approve it for me to recognize it.

It's the people's county. It's not the legislature's county.

That may be the people's opinion.  It is not the legislature's opinion.

Unless it's a dictatorship, the people's opinion is the one that counts.

[Brandon]

As far as I'm concerned, the legislature doesn't have to approve it for me to recognize it.

It's the people's county. It's not the legislature's county.

That may be the people's opinion.  It is not the legislature's opinion.

Unless it's a dictatorship, the people's opinion is the one that counts.

And that is why the state legislature of elected representatives from across the state (including the county in question) exists.  Odds are, it'll be passed unanimously.

[hbelkins]

As far as I'm concerned, the legislature doesn't have to approve it for me to recognize it.

It's the people's county. It's not the legislature's county.

That may be the people's opinion.  It is not the legislature's opinion.

Unless it's a dictatorship, the people's opinion is the one that counts.

You can call your residence "New America" but that doesn't mean it's really "New America" and not Highland Heights (or Dayton or Newport or Independence or Kenton Vale or whatever municipality you live in.)

The people can call it anything they want, but the county was created by the state and the state is (probably) the only one that can officially change its name.

[Duke87]

I tend to be hostile to name changes because around here they are usually stupid and the result of political arrogance. In this case at least, it's not like that. Nobody is renaming the county after some slimeball that was governor 30 years ago or something.

Still, stories like this make me think... do these people really have nothing more important to spend their finite existence worrying about?

Although this is South Dakota, so maybe the answer is "no".

[Pete from Boston]

Still, stories like this make me think... do these people really have nothing more important to spend their finite existence worrying about?

Removing an honor given to someone best known locally for being oppressive to the indigenous population that still lives there?  This is an unimportant use of time?  I would instead focus on the fact that there are more important names to put on a finite number of counties than the one they're removing.

People lead entire lives of never righting wrongs.  These people are righting one, however small.  Good use of finite time.

[SD Mapman]

I tend to be hostile to name changes because around here they are usually stupid and the result of political arrogance. In this case at least, it's not like that. Nobody is renaming the county after some slimeball that was governor 30 years ago or something.

Still, stories like this make me think... do these people really have nothing more important to spend their finite existence worrying about?

Although this is South Dakota, so maybe the answer is "no".

Thanks for that... As a resident, I expect that if it does have to go to the state legislature, it'll pass. Pierre has bigger fish to fry  that they need to get to.

And here's what exactly has to happen, from the Argus Leader...

Voter approval of the new name isn't the end of the process. Under state law, the governor is required to "communicate the result" of the name change election to the presiding officer of each house of the Legislature at next year's session. After that, South Dakota law says the Legislature "shall" pass a joint resolution designating the new name.

Once that happens, the governor "shall" publicly proclaim the new name, which takes effect on the first day of the first month following that proclamation

[Laura]

This is really awesome. I was just in South Dakota this summer, but was unable to make it down to the reservation due to time constraints. There's something to be said about having your tribal name also being the official name of the county - it will definitely be a morale booster there.

[Molandfreak]

Still, stories like this make me think... do these people really have nothing more important to spend their finite existence worrying about?

Removing an honor given to someone best known locally for being oppressive to the indigenous population that still lives there?  This is an unimportant use of time?  I would instead focus on the fact that there are more important names to put on a finite number of counties than the one they're removing.

People lead entire lives of never righting wrongs.  These people are righting one, however small.  Good use of finite time.

[SD Mapman]

This is really awesome. I was just in South Dakota this summer, but was unable to make it down to the reservation due to time constraints. There's something to be said about having your tribal name also being the official name of the county - it will definitely be a morale booster there.

Yeah, I've heard conditions aren't good down there. This'll be neat for them.

OT, where did you go this summer?

[Duke87]

Removing an honor given to someone best known locally for being oppressive to the indigenous population that still lives there?  This is an unimportant use of time?

In my mind at least, where a county's name comes from is usually just random trivia, not an "honor" to someone. Quick - where does the county you live in get its name from? The vast majority of Americans will not know the answer to this question. Even I only know vaguely that Queens County was created at the same time as Kings County, Dutchess County, and Dukes County and thus fits in a logical set. I couldn't tell you without looking it up which particular English monarch did this or what specifically motivated them.

Just because something is named after someone doesn't mean it "honors" them. It only honors them if it's common knowledge who they are. After all, being forgotten to history is hardly an honor. Ironically, Mr. Shannon is a lot more honored now that a stink has been raised about this than he was back when everyone just ignored the name.

[corco]

Removing an honor given to someone best known locally for being oppressive to the indigenous population that still lives there?  This is an unimportant use of time?

In my mind at least, where a county's name comes from is usually just random trivia, not an "honor" to someone. Quick - where does the county you live in get its name from? The vast majority of Americans will not know the answer to this question. Even I only know vaguely that Queens County was created at the same time as Kings County, Dutchess County, and Dukes County and thus fits in a logical set. I couldn't tell you without looking it up which particular English monarch did this or what specifically motivated them.

Just because something is named after someone doesn't mean it "honors" them. It only honors them if it's common knowledge who they are. After all, being forgotten to history is hardly an honor. Ironically, Mr. Shannon is a lot more honored now that a stink has been raised about this than he was back when everyone just ignored the name.

Except Shannon County was named in 1982, and the history out here is a lot shorter than the history out there. Mr. Shannon committed his atrocities in the 1880s. There are people alive today whose grandparents if not parents would have been alive during his time.

You're coming at this from a Connecticut perspective, not a Lakota perspective. I don't know that I can come to grips with it from a Lakota perspective either, but the ballot showing is a pretty good approximation. The Lakota hold very proud and true to their own history- despite being the poorest people in the entire country, they won't take $1 billion from the federal government (and haven't for 30 years, since the money became available) for taking the Black Hills from them because they still view the USA as a foreign occupation. It's absolutely not out of the question that people in that area still know who Mr. Shannon is and look at him with disdain. If it spreads awareness of his and general US behavior towards the Lakota to white people and helps white people understand where the Lakota are coming from, that's not honor, that's a good thing.

In Montana, we just didn't pass a constitutional amendment to rename our Office of the State Auditor to the Commissioner of Securities and Insurance that had the backing of all the major newspapers and all the important people, just because we thought it was pointless. Montana political views aren't too different from South Dakota political views, so it's not like we just run around changing names all willy-nilly, there has to be a good reason for it, and clearly the folks affected thought there was in this case.