General I-69

[silverback1065]

Waste of IN taxpayer money.

I agree, I wish the state line was the middle of the ohio river, but that goes back to to days of the NW Territory.  but it does benefit Indiana if the bridge is built, so i see why IN wants to pay for some of it, I don't think it should be 50/50 though. 

[lordsutch]

Waste of IN taxpayer money.

Indiana would have to build approaches on its side anyway, even though the current river course is wholly in Kentucky. It's not like I-164 is already built up to the state line.

[vdeane]

Unless the plan has changed, the new bridge will not be wholly in Kentucky.  While the US 41 bridges are, the I-69 bridge was planned to be built to the east (bypassing Henderson), where the state line is the edge of the river.  And, of course, the approaches in Indiana need to be built, unless you want the bridge to look like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0355635,124.3719116,2112m/data=!3m1!1e3

[hbelkins]

On US 41, the bridges are entirely in Kentucky and the state line is a drainage ditch north of the river because the state line is the low-water mark as it existed in 1792 and the river's course has changed since then. (I don't recall ever seeing when or how the river changed course in the 225-or-so years since Kentucky became a state). But where the I-69 bridges will be built, the river is the state line.

Even though the river is, for the most part, entirely in Kentucky, there are construction and maintenance agreements with neighboring states. For instance, Ohio built the new Ironton-Russell bridge and the US Grant bridge that carries US 23. Kentucky built the new I-65 northbound bridge and Indiana built the new I-265 bridge. Indiana is also doing a major painting job on the Lincoln Trail Bridge between Cannelton and Hawesville.

[Captain Jack]

Waste of IN taxpayer money.

I would be real interested in how you come to this conclusion?

[Scott5114]

Waste of IN taxpayer money.

I would be real interested in how you come to this conclusion?

Probably because he posts that about literally everything.

I like to think he takes time off of work to go to the Tennessee state capitol, chasing down minor office functionaries and bleating at them whenever they use too many post-its.

[Avalanchez71]

I have spent some time at the capitol.  TN does stream all of the legislative committees as well as myriad of other meetings and committees.  I am also an elected official and save tax payer money as much as possible.

[Captain Jack]

So tell me why you seem so obsessed with Henderson not completing I-69? Can you seriously think the city is better off with a bottleneck to appease a few fast food joints than a modern highway servicing a metropolitan area of approximately 400,000 people?

[silverback1065]

i think 69 is only really necessary between indy and memphis

[Scott5114]

I am also an elected official

This explains so much.

[Avalanchez71]

So tell me why you seem so obsessed with Henderson not completing I-69? Can you seriously think the city is better off with a bottleneck to appease a few fast food joints than a modern highway servicing a metropolitan area of approximately 400,000 people?

Henderson could pose this as a unique situation and use this to their advantage.  Hey it does work out for Breezewood.  They could put this to good spin.

[sparker]

I am also an elected official

This explains so much.

So tell me why you seem so obsessed with Henderson not completing I-69? Can you seriously think the city is better off with a bottleneck to appease a few fast food joints than a modern highway servicing a metropolitan area of approximately 400,000 people?

Henderson could pose this as a unique situation and use this to their advantage.  Hey it does work out for Breezewood.  They could put this to good spin.

Two things:  (1) Henderson doesn't have the PTC available to run interference for them; they also don't have the excuse that the original Interstate legislation forbade chargeable money from being spent on connections to a toll road (tolls were removed from Breathitt/I-69 a long time ago, and the corridor certainly isn't in the "chargeable" category).  Also -- has anyone in Henderson actually expressed an interest in functioning as an effective "Breezewood"?  The city has a population base of about 30K; one would think that they aren't largely dependent upon supplication of roadside services for their fiscal needs!  (2) addressed directly to Av.71:  If there isn't an issue of security involved in such a disclosure, what is the actual public office you occupy?  Inquiring minds want to know!

[hbelkins]

I just drove the Henderson corridor a couple of weeks ago. There aren't as many "highway businesses" along the route as I thought there were.

[Captain Jack]

So tell me why you seem so obsessed with Henderson not completing I-69? Can you seriously think the city is better off with a bottleneck to appease a few fast food joints than a modern highway servicing a metropolitan area of approximately 400,000 people?

Henderson could pose this as a unique situation and use this to their advantage.  Hey it does work out for Breezewood.  They could put this to good spin.

Really? Breezewood is an unincorporated town in the middle of nowhere with virtually no residents. Henderson County has nearly 50,000 people, connected to the other 300,000 residents of the Evansville-Henderson MSA on the north side of the Ohio with a single bridge crossing. If there is any type of accident, or construction, it becomes very problematic to get to the other side. You do realize that the Evansville-Henderson MSA is the largest on either the Ohio or Mississippi with a single bridge crossing?

Henderson has had modest growth over the last 50 years. Warrick County IN and the McCutchanville area north of Evansville has had the largest growth in this region during this period. Henderson currently has significantly lower utility rates and property taxes than the Indiana residents. With adequate access to the other side, Henderson could legitimately become a very attractive place for future growth in this region.

Trust me, this is far more advantageous to the future of Henderson than maintaining a bottleneck along US 41 for the benefit of a few convenience stores and fast food joints.

Do you think Nashville would have been better off if they had never built I-24, instead just kept funneling all of the traffic down Murfreesboro Road?

[english si]

i think 69 is only really necessary between indy and memphis

Between Indy and Canada is pretty important (and Detroit and Chicago )!

I think that Texas' bits are important too. Texarkana - Houston - Corpus Christi - Laredo/Rio Grande Valley links several key urban areas and onward connections (Mexico to the south, I-49 and I-30 to the north). Shreveport (and I-20) is also important enough to justify its direct interstate connection to Houston that I-69 would give.

[Life in Paradise]

So tell me why you seem so obsessed with Henderson not completing I-69? Can you seriously think the city is better off with a bottleneck to appease a few fast food joints than a modern highway servicing a metropolitan area of approximately 400,000 people?

Henderson could pose this as a unique situation and use this to their advantage.  Hey it does work out for Breezewood.  They could put this to good spin.

Really? Breezewood is an unincorporated town in the middle of nowhere with virtually no residents. Henderson County has nearly 50,000 people, connected to the other 300,000 residents of the Evansville-Henderson MSA on the north side of the Ohio with a single bridge crossing. If there is any type of accident, or construction, it becomes very problematic to get to the other side. You do realize that the Evansville-Henderson MSA is the largest on either the Ohio or Mississippi with a single bridge crossing?

Henderson has had modest growth over the last 50 years. Warrick County IN and the McCutchanville area north of Evansville has had the largest growth in this region during this period. Henderson currently has significantly lower utility rates and property taxes than the Indiana residents. With adequate access to the other side, Henderson could legitimately become a very attractive place for future growth in this region.

Trust me, this is far more advantageous to the future of Henderson than maintaining a bottleneck along US 41 for the benefit of a few convenience stores and fast food joints.

Do you think Nashville would have been better off if they had never built I-24, instead just kept funneling all of the traffic down Murfreesboro Road

Living in the same area, I am as much concerned about the state of the existing bridges.  One is about 75 years old, and the other is pushing 50.  I expect that neither of them are to current earthquake standards.

[silverback1065]

So tell me why you seem so obsessed with Henderson not completing I-69? Can you seriously think the city is better off with a bottleneck to appease a few fast food joints than a modern highway servicing a metropolitan area of approximately 400,000 people?

Henderson could pose this as a unique situation and use this to their advantage.  Hey it does work out for Breezewood.  They could put this to good spin.

Really? Breezewood is an unincorporated town in the middle of nowhere with virtually no residents. Henderson County has nearly 50,000 people, connected to the other 300,000 residents of the Evansville-Henderson MSA on the north side of the Ohio with a single bridge crossing. If there is any type of accident, or construction, it becomes very problematic to get to the other side. You do realize that the Evansville-Henderson MSA is the largest on either the Ohio or Mississippi with a single bridge crossing?

Henderson has had modest growth over the last 50 years. Warrick County IN and the McCutchanville area north of Evansville has had the largest growth in this region during this period. Henderson currently has significantly lower utility rates and property taxes than the Indiana residents. With adequate access to the other side, Henderson could legitimately become a very attractive place for future growth in this region.

Trust me, this is far more advantageous to the future of Henderson than maintaining a bottleneck along US 41 for the benefit of a few convenience stores and fast food joints.

Do you think Nashville would have been better off if they had never built I-24, instead just kept funneling all of the traffic down Murfreesboro Road

Living in the same area, I am as much concerned about the state of the existing bridges.  One is about 75 years old, and the other is pushing 50.  I expect that neither of them are to current earthquake standards.

1 Definitely needs to be rebuilt, and the other probably should be too, I hear that they may make US 41 2 lanes and use the younger bridge rather than replace the older one, this would only happen after the 69 bridge is built

[Life in Paradise]

My recommendation would be to sign US 41 with I-69 on the new bridge, use the older current twin bridge as a pedestrian/bike bridge like they have in Louisville, and turn the other bridge to an extension of US 41A in Kentucky.  Yes, I know that Indiana doesn't do "A's", but the KY border is less than a mile from the current I-69 and US 41 interchange, and they could simply sign it ahead "To US 41A".  From my understanding, the current US 41A was the original US 41 route.  That way they could push more traffic over the tolled bridge and still have a viable alternative for us local folks who are too cheap to pay for the toll bridge, except to clinch it.

[Captain Jack]

I like that idea of 41-A going across the old bridges, however, if Indiana doesn't do Alternates, what becomes of the current 41 through Evansville? Are you suggesting 41 comes back across the current 69-Veterans Parkway and follow the existing road, or bypass Evansville on I-69 to I-64 and back?

Yes, 41-A between Henderson and Madisonville was the original 41 until around 1950. 41-A between Hopkinsville and Nashville was also the original 41 for a short time, with the current 41 route being US 241. Sometime in the 1930's, US 241 was dropped, with the original 41 through Clarksville becoming US 41-W, and the 241 road becoming 41-E. At some point after the war, the directionals were dropped with the Clarksville route becoming 41-A.

I would be curious how the original 41 route, which seems to be more direct, and serves more population through Clarksville, ended up becoming 41-A, with the Springfield route taking the primary route away. I know the times we went to Nashville and south before 24 was completed, we always took the Clarksville route. I think because some of it was 4-laned, and seemed more direct.

[Life in Paradise]

Yep, I would keep US 41 going through Evansville proper to the southside of Evansville, since I don't believe the local government will let that be resigned if they have anything to do with it.  The only way that Evansville/Vanderburgh officials would consider switching 41 to the I-69 (Old  I-164 road) is to keep the road a state highway such as 941, but that really doesn't seem right here.

[dvferyance]

The extension to Evansville made sense but I agree the Tennessee portion is completely useless. As mentioned earlier it's even longer to go to points north from Memphis than taking interstates that already exist. It also runs 20 miles from I-55. I would end I-69 at I-24 near Hopkinsville KY. The rest should be scrapped.

[epzik8]

In the words of another user of this forum, "I-69 is never going to be a continuous Canada to Mexico highway."

[Captain Jack]

The extension to Evansville made sense but I agree the Tennessee portion is completely useless. As mentioned earlier it's even longer to go to points north from Memphis than taking interstates that already exist. It also runs 20 miles from I-55. I would end I-69 at I-24 near Hopkinsville KY. The rest should be scrapped.

I am not sure I would say the Tennessee portion is useless. Of course I travel between Evansville and Memphis quite a bit. Union City is a pain with the speed trap. You could make the argument of using 155 and 55 past Dyersburg, although that does add a few miles. Now, once I reach Dyersburg, I find it quicker to stay on 51, so I think most traffic would do the same if you used 155-55.

I will agree with you on the MS-AR section. Having lived in Houston, I do see the need for 59 between Houston and Texarkana to be upgraded. Simply co-sign 69 with 40 and 30 through Arkansas.

[hbelkins]

I will say this -- having driven I-40 once between Nashville and Memphis, I will never do that again unless I absolutely, positively have to go through Nashville for some reason. I will defer to the Kentucky parkways and I-69/US 51, using I-155 and I-55 if I'm going somewhere west of Memphis. I hated I-40 -- it was interminably long and choked with traffic.

[dvferyance]

On US 41, the bridges are entirely in Kentucky and the state line is a drainage ditch north of the river because the state line is the low-water mark as it existed in 1792 and the river's course has changed since then. (I don't recall ever seeing when or how the river changed course in the 225-or-so years since Kentucky became a state). But where the I-69 bridges will be built, the river is the state line.

Even though the river is, for the most part, entirely in Kentucky, there are construction and maintenance agreements with neighboring states. For instance, Ohio built the new Ironton-Russell bridge and the US Grant bridge that carries US 23. Kentucky built the new I-65 northbound bridge and Indiana built the new I-265 bridge. Indiana is also doing a major painting job on the Lincoln Trail Bridge between Cannelton and Hawesville.

Isn't the I-64 Sherman Minton Bridge Indiana's responsibility?