The Clearview thread

[J N Winkler]

The line to which you are referring ("Homer 211") is one line in one of four sign design sheets posted one and a half months ago.  Can I kindly suggest that you quote what you are responding to in order to establish context?

[Roadsign199qc]

OK, I know, but I forgot.

[nyratk1]

Here's a picture of the new Town of Brookhaven, LI, NY street signage in my neighborhood 

[Android]

Actually, I think those aren't that terribly bad.  The way they tightened up the kerning (spacing between letters) it kind of fools you into thinking it isn't Clearview.  Although I thought that the Clearview kerning was part of the design of that typeface.

[Alps]

Actually, I think those aren't that terribly bad.  The way they tightened up the kerning (spacing between letters) it kind of fools you into thinking it isn't Clearview.  Although I thought that the Clearview kerning was part of the design of that typeface.

You know, I think you're right, the wide kerning is something I never put my finger on but these definitely look better.

[Scott5114]

They look too large and jumbled-together for my tastes.

[Quillz]

Anyone who has seen actual Clearview signs, is the 5-W-R weight supposed to be a E(M) replacement? It works out that way, as 5-W/5-B seems to be for replacing standard Series E. However, it seems that W-R (there is no B-R) seems to just shift everything to the right, rather than making the stroke a little thicker.

[J N Winkler]

No, 5-W-R is not a bolded version of 5-W; in fact the two have the same glyphs.  5-W-R has narrower intercharacter spacing ("R" for reduced spacing) so that words in 5-W-R will be the same width as the same words in Series E Modified.  Its main purpose is as a drop-in replacement for Series E Modified in situations where the overall sign panel size is not to change (e.g., when the intention is to reuse the same supports).

[Alps]

No, 5-W-R is not a bolded version of 5-W; in fact the two have the same glyphs.  5-W-R has narrower intercharacter spacing ("R" for reduced spacing) so that words in 5-W-R will be the same width as the same words in Series E Modified.  Its main purpose is as a drop-in replacement for Series E Modified in situations where the overall sign panel size is not to change (e.g., when the intention is to reuse the same supports).

Makes me wonder if you'll find a sign in Highway Gothic that needs to be updated and ends up with a patch/greenout in Clearview.  I'm sure there are a few of these mixed-case examples.

[Quillz]

That's interesting to note. So, then, new guide signs that wholly use Clearview are using 5-W, then?

[6a]

Some of the new signs I've noticed around Columbus have been in Highway Gothic.  I wonder if they were already made, or if there's a move back to the old?

[Quillz]

Well, Clearview has only been approved for positive contrast uses on an interim basis, so there's not yet any requirement to use it. Was it a positive contrast sign (white characters on dark background?)

I also believe there were some usability tests that showed that under certain conditions, Series E(M) might actually be more legible than the equivalent Clearview weight, which I believe to be either 5-W or 5-W-B. (Note that all the x-B weights are somewhat thicker than the x-W weights.)

[J N Winkler]

That's interesting to note. So, then, new guide signs that wholly use Clearview are using 5-W, then?

Not necessarily.  In Texas the choice between 5-W and 5-W-R depends on the TxDOT district; some have picked 5-W while others have picked 5-W-R.  Arizona DOT and Michigan DOT use Clearview 5-W almost exclusively.

[Michael]

Wow, no posts in this thread since December?!

I had a dream last night that NYSDOT switched to Clearview.  I wasn't happy.

[Quillz]

Well, there haven't too many more developments regarding the font since then, I suppose. Though a few new signs in Orange County are using it now.

[vdeane]

Wow, no posts in this thread since December?!

I had a dream last night that NYSDOT switched to Clearview.  I wasn't happy.

You sure that wasn't a nightmare?

[architect77]

Thank goodness the NCDOT hasn't tarnished the state with Clearview.....yet....

[hbelkins]

Many of the signs along I-64 in southern Illinois between the Indiana line and Mt. Vernon have been replaced with Clearview. It appears that new sheeting was placed over top of the existing extruded sheet panels. There is some small black lettering in the white border of each sign, it appears to read "(unknown" 10 10) so I presume these signs were replaced last October.

[tdindy88]

I have noticed plenty of Clearview signs in the Chicago area when I was up there last December, in particular the Tri-State Tollway, Bishop Ford and Eisenhower Expressway and parts of the Dan Ryan near the Loop and I understand there are many more along the Illinois Tollway. And I was recently in Southwest Ohio where Dayton has some signs up along I-70 and I-75 around the southern part of the Dayton area, but I saw none around Cincinnati. Here in Indiana, all new signs have been Highway Gothic so it appears there is no push in the Hoosier State to move to Clearview despite being surrounded by all four states around us that now have Clearview in some of their signage.

[Ian]

After spending the weekend in eastern Ohio, I saw a few clearview signs on both I-70 and I-77. To be honest, they don't look that bad, at least compared to other states.

[Quillz]

After spending the weekend in eastern Ohio, I saw a few clearview signs on both I-70 and I-77. To be honest, they don't look that bad, at least compared to other states.

I really have no qualms with Clearview as long as it's used properly (i.e. it's designed to be mixed-case) and the signs it's used on are laid out well. Signs with poor layouts are going to look bad regardless of the font.

I have to say that I'm not as big a Clearview fan as I used to be (I've stopped doing conceptual shields with it), but that's because I learned that it really was not intended for 100% total sign replacement, at least not now. It seems it not being more optimal than Series E(M) on negative contrast signs is almost intentional.

[thenetwork]

One of the first ones I ever remember seeing was in PA on I-90 WB past Erie about 7-8 years ago, and in MI at the rebuilt I-94/M-39 interchange.  I liked the PA sign as it was just a distance sign, but I hated the overhead BGSs in MI -- they just looked odd (perhaps clashing with the route number shields)?  Fortunately, CDOT in Colorado is still anti-Clearview as they are replacing older BGSs in my area with the same (but slightly smaller) fonts. 

And yes, CDOT is still anti-accurate when it comes to putting up correct format signs in Western Colorado.  For example, there is one big exit sign for Redlands Parkway (which is 2 miles off the Interstate), yet they do not direct drivers to it (nor mention it) once they exit.  I'll see what they do when they finish the BGS replacement project before I send them the list of errata.

[hbelkins]

Spotted a Clearview services sign (white on blue) in Missouri on I-70 eastbound in Kansas City over the weekend. Got a photo but haven't checked to see how well it came out.

[iowahighways]

I found Clearview -- in mixed case, at that -- on a diamond sign in Cedar Falls, IA, earlier this year...

Clearview warning sign photo

[WolfGuy100]

I found Clearview -- in mixed case, at that -- on a diamond sign in Cedar Falls, IA, earlier this year...

Clearview warning sign photo

*gasp* Look awful! I like it better if they were all caps or only on guide signs.

EDIT: I do like Clearview fonts and FHWA Fonts (somewhat.) but I still think Clearview should be strictly only for guide signs, not every other signs such as warning signs or regulatory signs. Do you have any idea how awful a stop sign look if it got clearview spelling Stop like that?