The Clearview thread

[epzik8]

I caught another Clearview transition yesterday. U.S. 29 southbound near Columbia, Maryland approaching the MD-175 interchange. I didn't take a picture.

The new signs on US 29 used Clearview or FHWA fonts?

I don't know the difference. I thought every new sign was Clearview.

[SignGeek101]

I caught another Clearview transition yesterday. U.S. 29 southbound near Columbia, Maryland approaching the MD-175 interchange. I didn't take a picture.

The new signs on US 29 used Clearview or FHWA fonts?

I don't know the difference. I thought every new sign was Clearview.

This may help a bit. I made these very simple drawings to help people with common letters between FHWA and Clearview.

[7/8]

^ This a good illustration, thanks SignGeek101! I find the tall x-height of Clearview a useful way of distinguishing between the two.

I caught another Clearview transition yesterday. U.S. 29 southbound near Columbia, Maryland approaching the MD-175 interchange. I didn't take a picture.

The new signs on US 29 used Clearview or FHWA fonts?

I don't know the difference. I thought every new sign was Clearview.

I didn't know the difference either before joining this forum. I've learned a lot here

[Pink Jazz]

Yep, as you can see, Clearview has a more feminine appearance.

[hbelkins]

Yep, as you can see, Clearview has a more feminine appearance.

huh

[jakeroot]

Yep, as you can see, Clearview has a more feminine appearance.

I think you mean "humanist". As in "friendlier".

[1995hoo]

Yep, as you can see, Clearview has a more feminine appearance.

Is that because SignGeek101 is keeping us abreast of the differences?

[epzik8]

I caught a Clearview sign being installed yesterday eastbound on the Pennsylvania Turnpike on approach to the Susquehanna River bridge; this is in between the Harrisburg West and Harrisburg East interchanges. The Highway Gothic sign was still up.

UPDATE: The Highway Gothic sign is now gone.

[PHLBOS]

I caught a Clearview sign being installed yesterday eastbound on the Pennsylvania Turnpike on approach to the Susquehanna River bridge; this is in between the Harrisburg West and Harrisburg East interchanges. The Highway Gothic sign was still up.

UPDATE: The Highway Gothic sign is now gone.

Given that this BGS is along the eastbound lanes; I would've used the sign change as an opportunity to have Lancaster replace the Hershey listing on the primary signs and place Hershey on the supplemental signs; the opposite of what's presently there.

A similar move was done over a decade ago for the westbound BGS' for the Exit 286/US 222 interchange (Lancaster replaced Ephrata); the eastbound BGS' remained as they were.

[Pink Jazz]

I have been noticing a few new signs in FHWA here in the Phoenix area, and it appears that there are a few kinks that ADOT needs to work out with its use of FHWA fonts other than Series E(M).  It appears that a few of the new FHWA signs have some issues with formatting.  Perhaps ADOT's sign contractors are attempting to use FHWA Series D/E in templates that were designed for Clearview as a drop-in replacement.  Also, I have seen new exit gore signs using both Series D and Series E, and I even saw one on Loop 202 westbound (Exit 46 McQueen Road) that has the "4" in Series D and the "6" in Series E.

[Scott5114]

That sort of sloppiness can happen irrespective of whatever font is chosen. I drive past a construction speed limit ahead sign every day that has a Series E "4" and Clearview "5".

[swbrotha100]

To me, the Highway Gothic numbers look a LOT better than the Clearview numbers.

[PHLBOS]

To me, the Highway Gothic numbers look a LOT better than the Clearview numbers.

Agree.  Then again, the supposed readability issues associated with Highway Gothic (which motivated the launch of the Clearview font) was with mixed-cased lettering (mainly w/wider-stroked letters); not numerals.

[JoePCool14]

I have been noticing a few new signs in FHWA here in the Phoenix area, and it appears that there are a few kinks that ADOT needs to work out with its use of FHWA fonts other than Series E(M).  It appears that a few of the new FHWA signs have some issues with formatting.  Perhaps ADOT's sign contractors are attempting to use FHWA Series D/E in templates that were designed for Clearview as a drop-in replacement.  Also, I have seen new exit gore signs using both Series D and Series E, and I even saw one on Loop 202 westbound (Exit 46 McQueen Road) that has the "4" in Series D and the "6" in Series E.

I noticed the same back when I was there earlier this year. Particularly the 101, east side, and 51, north end. Had some issues with arrows as well as fonts.

[PHLBOS]

Saw some replacement D1 (LGS) assemblies along US 1 southbound at the PA 352 interchange near the former-Granite Run Mall.  No Clearview fonts at all; just mixed-cased Series C for 2 of the signs and mixed-case Series D for the other (Chester 5) sign above the SOUTH 352 trailblazer assembly.

So some newer PennDOT installations are indeed no longer using the Clearview font.

[Pink Jazz]

According to this article:
http://www.vnews.com/Vermont-Highway-Sign-Updates-Caught-Up-in-Font-Twist-4763590

In Vermont, the I-89 project, ongoing since April, will be the last by VTrans to use Clearview. The signs for the future I-91 project will use FHWA.

[Scott5114]

OTA seems to have not gotten the memo that Clearview is dead, since they just posted a new Clearview sign on Friday. In all-caps negative contrast, natch. And it was a panel that was too small to be contracted out (it's a TURNPIKE banner that stretches above a larger sign).

I can't complain too much, though. It replaced a banner that had Series B stretched to E width.

[hbelkins]

The creator of Clearview has pretty much indicated that he's going to fight the revocation. I'm not sure how he's going to do that -- via a PR campaign, lobbying for legislative action or trying to get FHWA to reconsider.

And I would suspect that there will be some recalcitrant agencies that will continue to use Clearview because they invested in the proprietary font and don't want to let that investment go to waste.

[vdeane]

Judging by all the news articles, it looks like he's already fighting a PR campaign.  And a bill from Congress included language reversing the revocation and requiring a public comment period; not sure if that got passed or not.

[Pink Jazz]

I'm not surprised that the creators are pushing for some type of legal action in response to the issue.  I once suggested that there was even the potential for litigation over the issue.

[hbelkins]

Judging by all the news articles, it looks like he's already fighting a PR campaign.  And a bill from Congress included language reversing the revocation and requiring a public comment period; not sure if that got passed or not.

Would love to see more info on this; this is the first I can remember hearing about it.

[lordsutch]

It's in both the House and Senate reports accompanying the FY 2017 appropriations bill for DOT. The House version reads:

Highway guide sign fonts.--In early 2016, FHWA notified state transportation agencies of its intention to rescind approval for the use of an alternate font on highway guide signs. The decision was made without adequate public consideration and input, and immediately impacted an estimated 26 states that had been given prior approval for alternate font use as a safe way to communicate with the traveling public. FHWA is directed to suspend enforcement of actions terminating the interim approval of this alternate font for highway guide signs until the agency provides an opportunity for public comment on this matter, and documents the safety and cost implications of this decision for affected states. FHWA is directed within 30 days of enactment of this Act to brief the House and Senate Committees on Appropriations regarding the process it will undertake to receive public comment.

Neither provision is law (yet) but it's likely to be incorporated in the eventual transportation funding bill, along with the I-57 designation and other stuff, especially given that the House and Senate agreed to the same language on Clearview already.

[PHLBOS]

Bold emphasis added:

It's in both the House and Senate reports accompanying the FY 2017 appropriations bill for DOT. The House version reads:

Highway guide sign fonts.--In early 2016, FHWA notified state transportation agencies of its intention to rescind approval for the use of an alternate font on highway guide signs. The decision was made without adequate public consideration and input, and immediately impacted an estimated 26 states that had been given prior approval for alternate font use as a safe way to communicate with the traveling public. FHWA is directed to suspend enforcement of actions terminating the interim approval of this alternate font for highway guide signs until the agency provides an opportunity for public comment on this matter, and documents the safety and cost implications of this decision for affected states. FHWA is directed within 30 days of enactment of this Act to brief the House and Senate Committees on Appropriations regarding the process it will undertake to receive public comment.

Was similar consideration given (public consideration, input, etc.) given when the Clearview font first rolled out? 

Additionally, since the approval was an interim approval and not permanent; to me, such means that it was only being used on a trial basis... i.e. experimental.

IMHO, given the number of states that botched its intended use; the interim approval should've been yanked sooner.

[cl94]

Bold emphasis added:

It's in both the House and Senate reports accompanying the FY 2017 appropriations bill for DOT. The House version reads:

Highway guide sign fonts.--In early 2016, FHWA notified state transportation agencies of its intention to rescind approval for the use of an alternate font on highway guide signs. The decision was made without adequate public consideration and input, and immediately impacted an estimated 26 states that had been given prior approval for alternate font use as a safe way to communicate with the traveling public. FHWA is directed to suspend enforcement of actions terminating the interim approval of this alternate font for highway guide signs until the agency provides an opportunity for public comment on this matter, and documents the safety and cost implications of this decision for affected states. FHWA is directed within 30 days of enactment of this Act to brief the House and Senate Committees on Appropriations regarding the process it will undertake to receive public comment.

Was similar consideration given (public consideration, input, etc.) given when the Clearview font first rolled out? 

Additionally, since the approval was an interim approval and not permanent; to me, such means that it was only being used on a trial basis... i.e. experimental.

IMHO, given the number of states that botched its intended use; the interim approval should've been yanked sooner.

Yet another case of politicians inserting themselves where decisions should be made solely by engineers. I don't think it's something that needs public input- the studies showing the font was better were found to be flawed and the font is actually worse under certain conditions.

[Pink Jazz]

What I find surprising is that while Canada is more liberal overall, when it comes to sign fonts, Canada lets the free market decide what fonts their DOTs want to use.