Numberless exits on numbered-exit roads

[cl94]

No, park-and-rides and rest areas pretty much never have exit numbers. There is nothing unusual about them not being numbered.

I am talking about actual exits from the highway to other roads, actual interchanges that lack a number where all or most of the remaining interchanges have numbers, and the omission therefore stands out.

It does happen, though. Case in point: Exit 15X in New Jersey

[NE2]

No, park-and-rides and rest areas pretty much never have exit numbers. There is nothing unusual about them not being numbered.

I am talking about actual exits from the highway to other roads, actual interchanges that lack a number where all or most of the remaining interchanges have numbers, and the omission therefore stands out.

It does happen, though. Case in point: Exit 15X in New Jersey

Which is a local-access interchange that happens to serve a park and ride first. Also note that the Turnpike technically numbers toll booths, not exits.

[cl94]

No, park-and-rides and rest areas pretty much never have exit numbers. There is nothing unusual about them not being numbered.

I am talking about actual exits from the highway to other roads, actual interchanges that lack a number where all or most of the remaining interchanges have numbers, and the omission therefore stands out.

It does happen, though. Case in point: Exit 15X in New Jersey

Which is a local-access interchange that happens to serve a park and ride first. Also note that the Turnpike technically numbers toll booths, not exits.

It was built for the station. And while it may be a toll booth designation, it is signed as Exit 15X.

[Pete from Boston]

No, park-and-rides and rest areas pretty much never have exit numbers. There is nothing unusual about them not being numbered.

I am talking about actual exits from the highway to other roads, actual interchanges that lack a number where all or most of the remaining interchanges have numbers, and the omission therefore stands out.

It does happen, though. Case in point: Exit 15X in New Jersey

Which is a local-access interchange that happens to serve a park and ride first. Also note that the Turnpike technically numbers toll booths, not exits.

It was built for the station. And while it may be a toll booth designation, it is signed as Exit 15X.

It was built to serve the station, not the park-and-ride.  One of the major original complaints about that station was that it lacked any parking, a complaint rebuffed by officials who said it was never meant to be driven to and parked at, but rather as a transfer point from one line to another, with some drop-off, etc.

Functionally, 15 X works just like any other regular exit that empties into local streets, many of which, I imagine, also have park-and-rides at them.

Regardless, they're still not what I was asking about.

[PHLBOS]

It was built to serve the station, not the park-and-ride.  One of the major original complaints about that station was that it lacked any parking, a complaint rebuffed by officials who said it was never meant to be driven to and parked at, but rather as a transfer point from one line to another, with some drop-off, etc.

A similar argument can be/was made for the Cornwell Heights Park-and-Ride ramps off I-95 South (& PA 63 East) that serves the SEPTA train station (the station was there prior to the interchange and parking lot).  Ride in the Park-and-Ride can also mean riding in a train as well.

[NE2]

And while it may be a toll booth designation, it is signed as Exit 15X.

My point is that it's different from the unnumbered exits after the exit 14C toll plaza, one of which is signed for a light rail park and ride but serves local streets. NJTP practice is that exits without toll booths usually go unnumbered (such as US 130 on the PA Extension), with the main exception on the ex-NJDOT part of I-95.

On the other hand, I-78 west has four unnumbered exits after NJDOT maintenance begins, one of which is accessible without paying.


Texas has a few random frontage road slip ramps that go unnumbered.

[bassoon1986]

Are at-grades considered exits? I mentioned the ones on MA 128 before. There are also the ones on MA 2 (between exits 26 and 33).

And all rest areas.

No, rest areas are not what I'm talking about. I am talking about interchanges with roads that under normal circumstances would be numbered exits, but for some reason in certain situations are not, despite an otherwise consistent sequence of numbered exits.

At-grade intersections are not really relevant for the purposes of the question.

On the flip side, Texas will occasionally number rest areas.
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6972106,-97.1627704,3a,75y,178.62h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1semt9SZnZ2sSVlka21Gq17A!2e0

[roadman]

Some states make a practice to not number Interstate to Interstate interchanges. The theory is that these are not really "exits" as you are not leaving the Interstate System.

IIRC, in the early days of exit numbering, BPR encouraged states NOT to give exit numbers to interstate to interstate connections for the reason you cited.  New Hampshire is one of a number of states that still follow this practice.

[briantroutman]

Some states make a practice to not number Interstate to Interstate interchanges. The theory is that these are not really "exits" as you are not leaving the Interstate System.

And though that might seem like an odd concept today–given the prevalence of both Interstate and non-Interstate freeways and expressways across the country–it has a precedent in the pre-Interstate Pennsylvania Turnpike.

The trumpet connecting the Turnpike mainline with the Northeast Extension was originally not numbered or named, and it generally wasn't included on the exit lists printed on maps and tickets. But there, the "you're not leaving the system"  concept is much clearer. You wouldn't pass through a toll plaza (as with every numbered interchange); you'd keep the same toll ticket. And at the time, the experience of driving on a limited access freeway was still foreign to most people, so transitioning onto another freeway (rather than exiting onto a surface street) was something of a significant distinction.

[mtantillo]

No, park-and-rides and rest areas pretty much never have exit numbers. There is nothing unusual about them not being numbered.

I am talking about actual exits from the highway to other roads, actual interchanges that lack a number where all or most of the remaining interchanges have numbers, and the omission therefore stands out.

Some GSP service areas have accesses to other roadways, so they can function like actual exits. Aside, even some service areas are used as U-turns for incomplete interchanges...such as turning around at the AC service area to get to/from the south from US 30.

[mtantillo]

It was built to serve the station, not the park-and-ride.  One of the major original complaints about that station was that it lacked any parking, a complaint rebuffed by officials who said it was never meant to be driven to and parked at, but rather as a transfer point from one line to another, with some drop-off, etc.

A similar argument can be/was made for the Cornwell Heights Park-and-Ride ramps off I-95 South (& PA 63 East) that serves the SEPTA train station (the station was there prior to the interchange and parking lot).  Ride in the Park-and-Ride can also mean riding in a train as well.

Park-and-ride is a place where you park your car and get into some form of transit (bus or train), or form a carpool (pre-arranged or "slug" style). It is no more or less legit to have a park and ride serve a train station as it is to serve carpoolers.

The whole concept of Secaucus Juntion not having parking was totally and completely baffling to me. It is the **PERFECT** location for a huge park-and-ride facility for both trains and buses into NYC, with dedicated access to the area's busiest highway. Why pay $20 a person to ride the train into the city from some far-flung suburb where parking is by permit only when you can drive almost all the way to the city, and drive from the highway directly to the train station and take a quick "shuttle" into the city. Makes perfect sense from the perspective of "keeping cars out of Manhattan".

I knew 100% without a doubt that if NJ Transit didn't build a parking lot, that private parking operators would capitalize on the demand and do it, and they did.

[NJRoadfan]

The argument at the time was that the station was strictly a "transfer station" between various train lines and not a full fledged transit hub. Yeah, it was a pretty dumb argument.

Can't forget this now closed exit on the GSP: http://goo.gl/maps/ZPd21

[Pete from Boston]

The argument at the time was that the station was strictly a "transfer station" between various train lines and not a full fledged transit hub. Yeah, it was a pretty dumb argument.

Would have been a better argument if they didn't build an exit right to it, and the single most overwrought ramp in the state (yes, I get why it's like that) at that.

[mtantillo]

Flawed logic that flies in the face of anything transit planners are taught.

[vdeane]

Are at-grades considered exits? I mentioned the ones on MA 128 before. There are also the ones on MA 2 (between exits 26 and 33).

And all rest areas.

No, rest areas are not what I'm talking about. I am talking about interchanges with roads that under normal circumstances would be numbered exits, but for some reason in certain situations are not, despite an otherwise consistent sequence of numbered exits.

At-grade intersections are not really relevant for the purposes of the question.

On the flip side, Texas will occasionally number rest areas.
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6972106,-97.1627704,3a,75y,178.62h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1semt9SZnZ2sSVlka21Gq17A!2e0

Quebec as well

[NJRoadfan]

Would have been a better argument if they didn't build an exit right to it, and the single most overwrought ramp in the state (yes, I get why it's like that) at that.

That was part of the future plans of developing the air rights of the station. The foundation was designed (at considerable expense) with construction of an office building on top. You say that requires parking? Nonsense, everyone will take the train! (transit planning thinking again)

[Duke87]

The whole concept of Secaucus Juntion not having parking was totally and completely baffling to me. It is the **PERFECT** location for a huge park-and-ride facility for both trains and buses into NYC, with dedicated access to the area's busiest highway. Why pay $20 a person to ride the train into the city from some far-flung suburb where parking is by permit only when you can drive almost all the way to the city, and drive from the highway directly to the train station and take a quick "shuttle" into the city. Makes perfect sense from the perspective of "keeping cars out of Manhattan".

One could make the argument that to promote transit usage you don't WANT people driving to Secaucus and just taking a shuttle, you want people to take the train from further out. I don't think this is why they didn't add parking but I have heard it made as an argument against adding parking.


Anyways, to the topic at hand: the Hutchinson River Parkway's exit to I-684 lacks a number. This exit was added between 26E-W and 27 after those exits were numbered so it doesn't fit in the sequence, but why it isn't exit 26A or 26N, I don't know.

[mrsman]

The whole concept of Secaucus Juntion not having parking was totally and completely baffling to me. It is the **PERFECT** location for a huge park-and-ride facility for both trains and buses into NYC, with dedicated access to the area's busiest highway. Why pay $20 a person to ride the train into the city from some far-flung suburb where parking is by permit only when you can drive almost all the way to the city, and drive from the highway directly to the train station and take a quick "shuttle" into the city. Makes perfect sense from the perspective of "keeping cars out of Manhattan".

One could make the argument that to promote transit usage you don't WANT people driving to Secaucus and just taking a shuttle, you want people to take the train from further out. I don't think this is why they didn't add parking but I have heard it made as an argument against adding parking.

Another possibility is that perhaps the developers wanted to make Secaucus Jct into a destination as opposed to an origin for commuters.  If there were a lot of office buildings in the area, then perhaps people from the outlying suburbs can take the train from a far suburb to Secaucus to work instead of driving.

In a similar vein, Newark doesn't have much parking.  For those who commute from far suburbs, they can take the train to Newark for work, but those who want to take the train from Newark to NYC, they would need to take some other form of public transit to the Newark train station or pay for a garage nearby.

[Pete from Boston]

In the 1980s, what's now called "Secaucus Junction" was proposed as the hub of a major real estate development called "Allied Junction."  The biggest train station built in the region in decades got built, the development it was going to be the centerpiece of... not yet.

[keithvh]

None of I-71's interchanges in downtown Cincinnati are numbered ------ doesn't matter whether it's going North or South ----- or whether it's an exit to another interstate (I-471, I-75) or an exit to a non-interstate road (3rd Street, Columbia Parkway).


All these, should, in theory be Exits 1A, 1B, 1C, et cetera.

I wonder if they did it to keep non locals from getting confused with I 75.

That's a good point.  For traffic moving from I-71 south to I-75 North (or vice versa, I-75 south to I-71 North), that could get somewhat confusing. 

Just from reading them, those movements may not seem particularly common, but they actually are relatively common.  For instance, from the west side to Hyde Park, I-74 to I-75 south to I-71 north can work just as well as I-74 to I-75 north to the Lateral to I-71 south.

[NE2]

I seem to remember that before the FWW reconstruction, suffixes were unique between I-71 and I-75, like the exit 2 loop in Kansas City.

[cl94]

I seem to remember that before the FWW reconstruction, suffixes were unique between I-71 and I-75, like the exit 2 loop in Kansas City.

They were. I don't remember if this was only on maps, but I remember I-471 being Exit 1J. Think there was a 1H as well.

[NE2]

I seem to remember that before the FWW reconstruction, suffixes were unique between I-71 and I-75, like the exit 2 loop in Kansas City.

They were. I don't remember if this was only on maps, but I remember I-471 being Exit 1J. Think there was a 1H as well.

Ah, they were signed: http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/fww1998-tour4.html