The Tax That Dare Not Be Hiked

[cpzilliacus]

The Atlantic: The Tax That Dare Not Be Hiked - Gas prices are plunging, and the Highway Trust Fund is broke. After more than 20 years, why won't Congress just raise the fuel tax?

In theory, advocates of an infusion of spending to fix the nation's crumbling roads and bridges have found the perfect political moment.

Fuel prices are plunging to their lowest level in years. The Highway Trust Fund is broke, and Congress faces a spring deadline to replenish it. The obvious answer–the only answer, according to many in Washington–is to raise the 18.4 cent-per-gallon gas tax, which hasn't gone up in more than 20 years. Since prices at the pump have dropped more than a dollar per gallon in some areas, drivers would barely notice the extra nickel they'd be forced initially to pay as a result of the tax hike. That wasn't true until recently: For years, the pocketbook punch of the Great Recession combined with gas prices that peaked above $4 made an increase both politically and economically untenable.

Yet even with prices at a four-year low, the odds of Congress touching the gas tax are as long as ever. "I think it's too toxic and continues to be too toxic," said Steve LaTourette, the former Republican congressman best known for his close friendship with his fellow Ohioan, Speaker John Boehner. "I see no political will to get this done."

[Duke87]

One reason why not is that people have a long term memory about gas prices. Most people who are old enough to vote are old enough to remember a time when gas prices all began with a 1, and a great many remember regularly seeing sub-$1 prices. It was that way for quite a long time and so in the collective mind of the public gasoline is still way too expensive, even with prices falling as far as they have.

Another reason why not is that given the current political weather in Washington, any and all taxes dare not be hiked.

A further reason why not is that there is some sentiment present that states should fund their own damn roads rather than relying on the federal government. Which is really interesting because congress has for a while loved using highway funding as a way to make states do things. Now there is a willingness among some to give up or diminish that power in order to dump the difficult job of having to raise taxes onto the states.

[oscar]

A further reason why not is that there is some sentiment present that states should fund their own damn roads rather than relying on the federal government. Which is really interesting because congress has for a while loved using highway funding as a way to make states do things. Now there is a willingness among some to give up or diminish that power in order to dump the difficult job of having to raise taxes onto the states.

Or raise tolls, toy with per-mile fees, or otherwise raise funds for roads.

Not only do states have more flexibility than the Feds on paying for roads, but balanced-budget requirements generally limit their ability to dodge hard choices on transportation funding like the U.S. Congress is wont to do, so the states seem to be less allergic to gas tax increases than the Feds.  Even in a state like Virginia, where anti-taxers control the legislature's lower house, they found a way to hold their noses and do a lot of hand-waving to let gas and other taxes go up, so they could at least feebly gnaw away at transportation shortfalls.

[Pete from Boston]

One reason why not is that people have a long term memory about gas prices. Most people who are old enough to vote are old enough to remember a time when gas prices all began with a 1, and a great many remember regularly seeing sub-$1 prices. It was that way for quite a long time and so in the collective mind of the public gasoline is still way too expensive, even with prices falling as far as they have.

Most people have a better memory for gas prices than they do for inflation.  Assuming a low price now of around $2.40, this equates roughly to $1.32 in 1990.   

Now, $1.32 would have been considered somewhat high in 1990 (the First Gulf War spikes were to just over $2.00 in the City of New York, and that was outlandishly high), but it was 25¢ higher than normal. 

Gas isn't going to cost $1.32 again, but it might cost $1.80, which is about a dollar in 1990 terms, a typical good price in those days.  People will still prefer to feel that gas is much more expensive than they remember it, though, even though at that point it won't be.  Even at current prices it's kind of a stretch to say gas is very expensive.

[formulanone]

One reason why not is that people have a long term memory about gas prices. Most people who are old enough to vote are old enough to remember a time when gas prices all began with a 1, and a great many remember regularly seeing sub-$1 prices. It was that way for quite a long time and so in the collective mind of the public gasoline is still way too expensive, even with prices falling as far as they have.

Most people have a better memory for gas prices than they do for inflation.  Assuming a low price now of around $2.40, this equates roughly to $1.32 in 1990.   

Now, $1.32 would have been considered somewhat high in 1990 (the First Gulf War spikes were to just over $2.00 in the City of New York, and that was outlandishly high), but it was 25¢ higher than normal. 

Gas isn't going to cost $1.32 again, but it might cost $1.80, which is about a dollar in 1990 terms, a typical good price in those days.  People will still prefer to feel that gas is much more expensive than they remember it, though, even though at that point it won't be.  Even at current prices it's kind of a stretch to say gas is very expensive.

Funny how folks forget that they pay at least 2-3 times as much in a grocery store or restaurant compared to 20 years ago, but gasoline is always considered a rip-off.

I still don't see how a one-cent per gallon increase, raised up incrementally every 2-3 years, is going to destroy the nest eggs and livelihoods of 300 million Americans.

To be fair, I haven't a clue how the excises are collected and distributed, and if it isn't penny-for-penny in the state where the fuel is purchased, there's the problem.

Sometimes, politicians are why we can't have nice things.

[Pete from Boston]

And sometimes voters are why we can't have nice things.  Inflation-indexed gas tax was repealed here by referendum last month.  Now, a) politicians afraid to touch the gas tax have to incrementally pass any increase, and b) they have a clear sense that voters are not only unafraid to vote against them for it, but are so motivated against gas tax that they'll circumvent the legislature if need be to push back against it. 

We have the level of infrastructure maintenance we deserve, I'm afraid.

[1995hoo]

Funny how folks forget that they pay at least 2-3 times as much in a grocery store or restaurant compared to 20 years ago, but gasoline is always considered a rip-off.

....

What amuses me is how people complain about the price of gas while they blatantly waste it. There's a KFC/Taco Bell in the shopping center near my neighborhood. Invariably there will be 10 or 12 vehicles sitting on line waiting for the drive-thru merrily wasting gas while they idle, yet there will be no line at all inside. You could park, go inside, get your food "to go," and be back in your car driving away in less time than it would take to reach the speaker thing where you place your order at the drive-thru.

When I pick up my wife at the subway station in the evening, some people will sit there idling their vehicles for 10 or 15 minutes waiting to pick someone up instead of just turning off the vehicle to save gas. I get that on a particularly hot day in the summer it's much nicer to run the AC, but some of these people will sit there idling regardless of the weather. Then they all complain about the price of gas. Doesn't make sense to me. I always turn off my car while I'm waiting unless it is an extraordinarily hot summer day (and yes, I know that contributes to air pollution).

[roadman]

And sometimes voters are why we can't have nice things.  Inflation-indexed gas tax was repealed here by referendum last month.  Now, a) politicians afraid to touch the gas tax have to incrementally pass any increase, and b) they have a clear sense that voters are not only unafraid to vote against them for it, but are so motivated against gas tax that they'll circumvent the legislature if need be to push back against it. 

We have the level of infrastructure maintenance we deserve, I'm afraid.

The Massachusetts repeal is a good example of why initiative petition should NEVER be used as a means of deciding taxation issues.

[formulanone]

And sometimes voters are why we can't have nice things...We have the level of infrastructure maintenance we deserve, I'm afraid.

Instead of sensible discussion, we get soundbites. Instead of rational arguments, we get political action committee advertising that deflects answers. We're getting bullied in our own playground because nobody finds the time and energy to address the liars and charlatans in charge.

[vdeane]

Most people have a better memory for gas prices than they do for inflation.  Assuming a low price now of around $2.40, this equates roughly to $1.32 in 1990.   

Yep.  Most people don't even notice inflation unless they're old enough to remember when a quarter could buy enough candy to make you sick at the corner grocery store.

A further reason why not is that there is some sentiment present that states should fund their own damn roads rather than relying on the federal government. Which is really interesting because congress has for a while loved using highway funding as a way to make states do things. Now there is a willingness among some to give up or diminish that power in order to dump the difficult job of having to raise taxes onto the states.

Or raise tolls, toy with per-mile fees, or otherwise raise funds for roads.

Not only do states have more flexibility than the Feds on paying for roads, but balanced-budget requirements generally limit their ability to dodge hard choices on transportation funding like the U.S. Congress is wont to do, so the states seem to be less allergic to gas tax increases than the Feds.  Even in a state like Virginia, where anti-taxers control the legislature's lower house, they found a way to hold their noses and do a lot of hand-waving to let gas and other taxes go up, so they could at least feebly gnaw away at transportation shortfalls.

That brings up an interesting thought; most people are far more tolerant of states doing things that would cause people to scream bloody murder if the feds did them.  Perhaps this is a backdoor method to getting Americans accustomed to a mileage tax?  If a state does it, it's "innovation".  If the federal government does it, it's "Homeland Security tracking your every move to put you in a FEMA Camp".  It's simple: create a funding crisis, force states to find new means of paying for things, and once people get used to what was formerly considered a draconian measure, do it at the federal level when the only people who will object are on the fringe and are easily discredited.  Throw a frog into a pot of boiling water, and he'll jump out.  Throw the same frog into a pot of water and then slowly raise the temperature to a boil and he'll be cooked alive.

[Brian556]

quote from 1995hoo

What amuses me is how people complain about the price of gas while they blatantly waste it. There's a KFC/Taco Bell in the shopping center near my neighborhood. Invariably there will be 10 or 12 vehicles sitting on line waiting for the drive-thru merrily wasting gas while they idle, yet there will be no line at all inside. You could park, go inside, get your food "to go," and be back in your car driving away in less time than it would take to reach the speaker thing where you place your order at the drive-thru.

When I pick up my wife at the subway station in the evening, some people will sit there idling their vehicles for 10 or 15 minutes waiting to pick someone up instead of just turning off the vehicle to save gas. I get that on a particularly hot day in the summer it's much nicer to run the AC, but some of these people will sit there idling regardless of the weather. Then they all complain about the price of gas. Doesn't make sense to me. I always turn off my car while I'm waiting unless it is an extraordinarily hot summer day (and yes, I know that contributes to air pollution).

Amen.

Around here, Chick-Fil-A always has a 13-SUV long line wrapped completely around the building, but no line inside. People are so effing lazy it's ridiculous. Of course, these are the people who are so rich that they can afford huge gas guzzling SUV's and the gas bill that comes with them. I guess to them money is no object. I often go inside places to avoid using the drive-through, and this includes the bank. It's a lot easier to read the menu and communicate with employees of a business if you actually go inside.

[Scott5114]

Not only that, but if you go inside you don't get trapped behind someone ordering for a family with 114 kids, involving 179 drinks (passed through the window individually because the customer wants to put each drink in an SUV cupholder instead of taking one of the cardboard drink carriers) and 181 burgers, all of which must be checked there at the window lest Ernie Sr. Jr. IX get pickles on his burger.

[hbelkins]

Funny how folks forget that they pay at least 2-3 times as much in a grocery store or restaurant compared to 20 years ago, but gasoline is always considered a rip-off.

Partly (mostly?) because nothing else's prices are as volatile as gasoline, and there's seemingly no logic to the price fluctuations.

If one of some sheikh's 10 wives or concubines doesn't give him a little one night, prices are liable to go up a quarter a gallon the next day. Or if some terrorist farts, the futures market gets jittery.

In the town where I work, a pattern has developed. Prices will go down a nickel at a time over the course of a few days at the first of the week. Then, usually on Thursday, the price will go up 20 cents a gallon. Then it will start back down incrementally on Monday.

[Duke87]

Partly (mostly?) because nothing else's prices are as volatile as gasoline

This. The price of gasoline has always been a subject of discussion, and has long been displayed in big numbers on signs facing the road at every gas station, so you cannot ignore it.

Meanwhile, quick - what exactly were you paying for a gallon of milk in 1995?

Most people would at least have to think about it and many couldn't give you an answer at all. I know I couldn't give you an answer. But I remember what gas cost.



 

[Pete from Boston]

People with kids know what milk costs.  And I know how the prices are on a lot of grocery commodities because I'm a stickler on grocery prices.  The sales on steak tips were lousy this year compared to most, for example, and anyone remember the lime crisis? 

But you're right, I probably won't remember those in five years.

Not everyone is as conscious of gas prices, either.  I know a lot of people who barely think twice about where they buy gas, never mind what they paid five years ago.  It was drilled into me as a kid to pay attention, though, so I know I paid $1.80 in New Paltz in 2004 (the horror!), $2.75 in Kentucky in 2007 (a steal!), $1.21 in New Jersey in 2008, and in 1998 or so, prices went under $1 for the last time.  I could go on, but it's enough to say that really mostly high or low spikes stick out in my mind going way back.

[vdeane]

Meanwhile, quick - what exactly were you paying for a gallon of milk in 1995?

$0.  I was 4 and Mom bought the groceries.

[mtantillo]

Funny how folks forget that they pay at least 2-3 times as much in a grocery store or restaurant compared to 20 years ago, but gasoline is always considered a rip-off.

....

What amuses me is how people complain about the price of gas while they blatantly waste it. There's a KFC/Taco Bell in the shopping center near my neighborhood. Invariably there will be 10 or 12 vehicles sitting on line waiting for the drive-thru merrily wasting gas while they idle, yet there will be no line at all inside. You could park, go inside, get your food "to go," and be back in your car driving away in less time than it would take to reach the speaker thing where you place your order at the drive-thru.

When I pick up my wife at the subway station in the evening, some people will sit there idling their vehicles for 10 or 15 minutes waiting to pick someone up instead of just turning off the vehicle to save gas. I get that on a particularly hot day in the summer it's much nicer to run the AC, but some of these people will sit there idling regardless of the weather. Then they all complain about the price of gas. Doesn't make sense to me. I always turn off my car while I'm waiting unless it is an extraordinarily hot summer day (and yes, I know that contributes to air pollution).

I can't stand the fast food business practices. One thing that particularly annoys me is that they often insist on giving out the orders in the exact same order in which they were placed. So if I see the inside is jammed with people, and decide to go around to the empty drive-through, I will often have to wait until everyone inside who has already ordered to get their food before they will start preparing my order. Likewise, there could be 5 people on the drive-thru line but no one inside...but if those 5 people already had their order keyed in, guarantee you'll be standing there waiting until all of them get their food before they will compile your order. So oftentimes, it isn't any faster to go inside, which is silly.

This practice of only handing out food in the same order in which it was ordered is particularly annoying when they are waiting on an item. This happened when the new Maryland House opened...I ordered 2 hot dogs from Nathans. I could see about 20 dogs done, spinning around on the hot dog thing, but because the person ahead of me ordered a dog and fries, and the fry machine was still counting down, we had to wait for the fries to be finished and the person ahead of me handed their food before they could pluck two dogs off the grill and hand them to me. ugh! They could have had my food out while waiting for the fries to cook! But that might be too difficult of a concept for a minimum wage employee to understand.

[1995hoo]

Heh. I got irked with the teenage employee at KFC when he wouldn't key in my order because I said "to go" at the end of the order instead of before I told him what I wanted (for example: "three-piece chicken and a biscuit to go" as opposed to "to go, three-piece chicken and a biscuit"). 

I have a feeling other people found him annoying because I never saw him working there again.

[cpzilliacus]

This practice of only handing out food in the same order in which it was ordered is particularly annoying when they are waiting on an item. This happened when the new Maryland House opened...I ordered 2 hot dogs from Nathans. I could see about 20 dogs done, spinning around on the hot dog thing, but because the person ahead of me ordered a dog and fries, and the fry machine was still counting down, we had to wait for the fries to be finished and the person ahead of me handed their food before they could pluck two dogs off the grill and hand them to me. ugh! They could have had my food out while waiting for the fries to cook! But that might be too difficult of a concept for a minimum wage employee to understand.

It isn't always the minimum wage employee.

Sometimes it's the almost-minimum wage supervisor or manager that does not have a clue. 

A good manager in that type of place (where many customers are want to get back on the road) keeps a close eye on queuing, and if the line builds up, steps in to help out.

[jeffandnicole]

...all of which must be checked there at the window lest Ernie Sr. Jr. IX get pickles on his burger.

Excuse me.  Ernie Sr. Jr. IX has a vlasic deficiency and if pickles, pickle juice, or the air around the pickles came in contact with him, he will almost certainly get a headache.  That is why the entire school has banned pickles from all lunches and snacks, including those brought from home.  (The other kids in the car can have pickles though - that won't affect him.)

Not everyone is as conscious of gas prices, either.  I know a lot of people who barely think twice about where they buy gas, never mind what they paid five years ago.  It was drilled into me as a kid to pay attention, though, so I know I paid $1.80 in New Paltz in 2004 (the horror!), $2.75 in Kentucky in 2007 (a steal!), $1.21 in New Jersey in 2008, and in 1998 or so, prices went under $1 for the last time.  I could go on, but it's enough to say that really mostly high or low spikes stick out in my mind going way back.

I remember arguing with someone who swears they never paid $4 a gallon when gas prices spiked in 2008 before dramatically falling.  Even though I could easily prove with gasbuddy that has historical charts showing gas prices for particular areas, he was insistent prices were never higher than the $2 range.

On the other hand, one of my carpoolers swears gas prices haven't been under $1 a gallon since the 1980's, even though I have been driving since 1993 and paid under $1 a gallon for seemingly much of the rest of that decade.

As for me, especially on road trips I will get super pissed at myself if I find out I could've paid less by waiting an exit or two, or if I had exited an exit or two earlier.  At home I try to hit up the cheapest gas stations...as long as they're within a reasonable distance from where I am or where I'll be. But I absolutely steer clear of the cash/credit pricing stations.

[hotdogPi]

But I absolutely steer clear of the cash/credit pricing stations.

Why is that? Just pay cash, and you'll get the cheaper price.

[Pete from Boston]

But I absolutely steer clear of the cash/credit pricing stations.

Why is that? Just pay cash, and you'll get the cheaper price.

I don't, because chances are good I don't have $60 on me for just in case I come across one of those.  There are so many places that charge one really low price for cash or charge that it makes some of the huge credit markups seem usurious. 

[Duke87]

But I absolutely steer clear of the cash/credit pricing stations.

Why is that? Just pay cash, and you'll get the cheaper price.

Besides the aforementioned issue that I often do not have the necessary quantity of cash on my person, there is also the matter of paying in cash being annoying since it requires I go inside, interact with a human, go back out and pump gas, go back inside and interact with a human again, and then go back outside and leave. If I use my card I just dip it in the machine, pump gas, and leave. Much simpler, quicker, and easier. If you think I should have to pay extra for this privilege you don't deserve my business.

If it's a full service station then most of the bother of paying with cash is removed since you make zero trips inside instead of two. But then that requires going to a full service station which is annoying for a bunch of other reasons.

[cjk374]

https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/why-cheap-gasoline-is-bad-for-america-054906623.html

Some things are true, but to the rest I say to this writer "FUCK YOU!!!"   

[Pete from Boston]

But I absolutely steer clear of the cash/credit pricing stations.

Why is that? Just pay cash, and you'll get the cheaper price.

Besides the aforementioned issue that I often do not have the necessary quantity of cash on my person, there is also the matter of paying in cash being annoying since it requires I go inside, interact with a human, go back out and pump gas, go back inside and interact with a human again, and then go back outside and leave. If I use my card I just dip it in the machine, pump gas, and leave. Much simpler, quicker, and easier. If you think I should have to pay extra for this privilege you don't deserve my business.

If it's a full service station then most of the bother of paying with cash is removed since you make zero trips inside instead of two. But then that requires going to a full service station which is annoying for a bunch of other reasons.

The cheapest stations here are all full serve.