Rental car: Trunk taped shut?

[J N Winkler]

Though when I lived in the dorms in Tacoma, I was able to register to vote in the state of Washington (even fully disclosing that I was a college student with a campus address). Same with Wyoming and UW- there was even a polling place set up on campus. I didn't see anything that would indicate that this was illegal, as long as I renounced my Idaho voter's registration.

When I was at Kansas State as an in-state student, I had the option of transferring my voter registration from Sedgwick County to Riley County.  Every so often the student government types would urge non-local K-Staters to do this so that the student lobby would have real teeth and electoral power.  It never worked.

[hbelkins]

Kentucky allows students to register to vote in the county where their college is located if they live in that community while they're going to school. I kept my registration at home and voted by absentee ballot, except for one special election where I changed my registration to Rowan County, Ky., to vote as a favor to a classmate and friend who lived there.

Kentucky doesn't require out-of-state students to register their vehicles or change their driver's licenses to here, even if the student lives off-campus.

[dfwmapper]

Yeah, dorms are NOT legally permanent addresses (or even physical addresses - mail comes to PO boxes that have deals with UPS and FedEx to deliver there).  Plus people who live in dorms typically park on college lots that have their own parking requirements (vehicles must be registered, which usually isn't free, and often freshmen aren't allowed cars at all).  As such, college students who live on campus legally still live at their parents' house.  Many states have no incentive to change this because of the political effects that college students voting in local elections would have.

That and changing things like the permanent address and voter registration count towards residency requirements in most states, and the university systems do love collecting out-of-state tuition at 3-5x what in-state students pay.

[The Nature Boy]

I think most states allow you to declare your dorm as a domicile for voting purposes. I don't know if you could use your dorm as an address if you tried to get a driver's license though.

[Scott5114]

Some states allow you to list whatever you want on your DL. I've seen PO boxes and UPS Store box addresses (which are listed as "suites" of the store's main address) on Oklahoma DLs. Some business owners will put their business address on there. Oklahoma DPS appears to really not check as long as it's a valid Oklahoma address.

Some states, including I think VT and CA, will even allow out-of-state addresses. This came up recently as someone gave a CA driver's license with an OK address to a bartender at work once, and he started following the fake ID protocol, got security involved, etc. It took a good portion of an hour to sort out, until management got involved and someone Googled if CA allows out-of-state licenses on IDs.

[1995hoo]

I think usually one of the bigger issues factoring into registering to vote, registering your car, etc., is with students attending public universities who want to try to qualify for in-state tuition. Most states are (not surprisingly) super-stingy in determining in-state status and often refuse to accept actions such as getting a driver's license, registering to vote, etc., as bona fide evidence of intent to remain in the state when the student is an undergrad. I believe I read somewhere that they have a harder time applying the same exclusionary principles to graduate and professional students, though I don't know for sure (I attended a public university as an undergrad, but I was in-state, and I attended a private university post-grad so it didn't matter). I know in Virginia they require pretty strong evidence that you've abandoned any prior domicile and that you intend to remain in Virginia indefinitely; things like whether your out-of-state parent claims a tax exemption for you factor into the analysis, as does your moving all your stuff home to the other state during the summer.

Most out-of-staters I knew as an undergrad didn't bother to register their cars and such in Virginia because it would not get them in-state status. I never tried to establish North Carolina residency during law school because there was no benefit to me from doing so.

[J N Winkler]

I believe I read somewhere that they have a harder time applying the same exclusionary principles to graduate and professional students, though I don't know for sure (I attended a public university as an undergrad, but I was in-state, and I attended a private university post-grad so it didn't matter).

I have a friend who moved from Kansas to do a chemistry PhD at Berkeley and had to navigate these issues.  He came in with a NSF fellowship.  The deal was that he was actually paid a small stipend to be at Berkeley, but had to obtain a California driver's license and meet certain obligations for undergraduate teaching, apparently to be treated as an in-state student.  If there was a requirement to transfer his personal vehicle to California, however, it was not enforced, with the result that he kept a Kansas plate on his minivan during his entire degree to avoid the hassles of insurance and smog checks.  (AIUI, California cannot refuse registration to a 49-states car or ding it for emissions violations unless it fails to meet the 49-states standards applicable at the time of manufacture, but OBD II makes it very easy for California to declare vehicles not road-legal for relatively trivial problems, often ones that do not involve emissions at all.  His minivan was in marginal condition and the transmission died around the time he had his oral exams.)

[Pete from Boston]

Many states have no incentive to change this because of the political effects that college students voting in local elections would have.

That was a pretty funny joke you made there about college students voting in local elections.   

I think it's a safe bet that most of the scores of thousands of college students who live in this area live off of campuses.   Of those that own cars–because this is far from a given–at least half of them probably lack off street parking.  Of the areas they tend to live in, Cambridge and Somerville are pretty much all resident permit parking, while Boston varies by neighborhood (by block, really).  This adds up to quite a chunk of change in cars that need to be re-registered here, permit fees that need to be paid, and excise tax on each vehicle owed to its respective city or town.

[kkt]

As a constitutional right, you can register to vote wherever you consider to be home.  If your home is a dorm room, the state still can't deny your right to vote.

However, most states require living there for a significant period of time as something other than a college student before granting in-state tuition.

[vdeane]

And how is the constitutional right going to stand up to Real ID?  Now, in order to get or renew a license in a Read ID compliant state, one needs to produce two proofs of residency within the state.  In NY (where they're used for enhanced licenses, even though normal licenses here still aren't Real ID compliant), this typically includes things like jury duty summons, a lease/mortgage, and utility bills.  Many of these things would not be available to a college student living in an on campus dorm (the selective service registration acknowledgement would work though for cisgendered men and transgendered women, and is probably the easiest proof to obtain for a college student that would have to register for selective service).

[SteveG1988]

http://frontplate.org

[briantroutman]

http://frontplate.org

Is 3M so desperate to sell more reflective sheeting that they're willing to spend money on a propaganda website (with a very deceiving .org domain, I might add)?

[SteveG1988]

http://frontplate.org

Is 3M so desperate to sell more reflective sheeting that they're willing to spend money on a propaganda website (with a very deceiving .org domain, I might add)?

Figured it would be a fun way to stop the discussion of Voting and stuff, and get it away from politics.

NJ for a few years went from 3m to Avery for their reflective sheeting, and returned to 3m due to issues.

[kkt]

And how is the constitutional right going to stand up to Real ID?  Now, in order to get or renew a license in a Read ID compliant state, one needs to produce two proofs of residency within the state.

Rental agreement from the dorm.  Tuition bill.  Bank statement.

[Brandon]

http://frontplate.org

Full of crap.  Having a front license plate is an archaic practice that should be terminated by as many states as possible.

[kkt]

Full of crap.  Having a front license plate is an archaic practice that should be terminated by as many states as possible.

Why shouldn't you be able to identify a vehicle from either end?

[Duke87]

And how is the constitutional right going to stand up to Real ID?  Now, in order to get or renew a license in a Read ID compliant state, one needs to produce two proofs of residency within the state.

Rental agreement from the dorm.  Tuition bill.  Bank statement.

A bank statement won't help you if your bank account is at your parents' address rather than the address of your dorm. Likewise, a tuition bill would likely be sent to your home address, and depending on who's paying might not be sent to the student. I never saw a tuition bill since my parents paid them all.


As for front plates, I don't claim to have any expertise on how much benefit they provide. All I know is that they have always been required around here and seeing cars without one looks weird to me.

[Pete from Boston]

And how is the constitutional right going to stand up to Real ID?  Now, in order to get or renew a license in a Read ID compliant state, one needs to produce two proofs of residency within the state.

Rental agreement from the dorm.  Tuition bill.  Bank statement.

A bank statement won't help you if your bank account is at your parents' address rather than the address of your dorm. Likewise, a tuition bill would likely be sent to your home address, and depending on who's paying might not be sent to the student. I never saw a tuition bill since my parents paid them all.

You can't live on the campus of a university without the university sending you a whole bunch of mail there.  You might want to, but you can't.

[The Nature Boy]

Just from working on campus, I had a check stub with my dorm address. I also don't know who in the world would have a bank account at an address other than where they live. My folks lived almost 800 miles from where I went to school, I had to make sure the bank could contact me quickly if they needed to.

Those two things would've been enough for me to get a driver's license in the state I went to college in. If those won't work, my alma mater would also give you a letter that says that you do in fact live on campus. I used that when I registered to vote because I didn't yet have a bank account and hadn't started working.

Between all of those things, I had 3 different things that proved that I in fact actually resided in the state I attended college. Of course, since I didn't intend to stay in the state I attended college in or the state I attended grad school, there was no reason for me to change residency. Both were private and I had scholarships anyway so there was no financial reason to do it.

[1995hoo]

Just from working on campus, I had a check stub with my dorm address. I also don't know who in the world would have a bank account at an address other than where they live. My folks lived almost 800 miles from where I went to school, I had to make sure the bank could contact me quickly if they needed to.

....

During my undergraduate years, I never changed the addresses on my bank accounts to any of my addresses in Charlottesville (three different addresses since I lived in three different places over four years). There was no benefit to doing so: As an in-state resident, I could just leave the account addresses at my home address in Fairfax and it caused no problems whatsoever for account access or any other purpose (and my parents could have referred the bank to me if needed). Indeed it was probably easier than changing the address each year. Local merchants didn't quibble about accepting a check with an address 120 miles away when it was from a student because the Honor Committee's Bad Check Committee was very good about ensuring students who bounced checks made payment (I never bounced one).

I did have to set up new accounts in North Carolina during law school even though I used the same bank. Interstate banking regulations were different in the mid-1990s from what they are now and making deposits across state lines was a lot more of a hassle except, for some reason, in the District of Columbia. But I had the same address all three years of law school so the other hassle of changing the address wasn't there

[Brandon]

Full of crap.  Having a front license plate is an archaic practice that should be terminated by as many states as possible.

Why shouldn't you be able to identify a vehicle from either end?

Why do you need one?  Michigan, Indiana, and other states seem to have no problem identifying vehicles without front plates.

[SteveG1988]

Full of crap.  Having a front license plate is an archaic practice that should be terminated by as many states as possible.

Why shouldn't you be able to identify a vehicle from either end?

Why do you need one?  Michigan, Indiana, and other states seem to have no problem identifying vehicles without front plates.

But why would you want to have 50% lower chances of seeing it. you have two plates, you just doubled your ability to get identified in a hit and run, or other such things. Convience store cameras for example would not be able to pick up the rear plate, but the front one is visible. if you're dumb enough to rob them and park right in front that is.

[1995hoo]

Cops love the front plate because it's a nice target for laser-based speed enforcement (sometimes called LIDAR). I find it mildly amusing how many people in "one-plate" states put reflective decorative plates on the front. I suppose if your car was already fitted with the bracket for the front plate it may be easier just to mount something there than to remove the bracket and plug the holes.

[vdeane]

Don't forget that you don't live at college in the summer.  You live at home.  On a semester system, that's 1/3 of the year (when I was in college, I was home from the last week of April until the last week of August).  If you go to college out of state, does that mean you're changing your licence twice a year?

In any case, I do all my business electronically.  I get my bank statements online.  I get my credit card statements online.  I get my electric/internet bills, now that I have them, online.  As such, I don't have paper copies of many of the documents that can be used as proof of residency in NY.  Had I gone to college out of state, I couldn't have changed my car registration even if I wanted to: my parents didn't transfer the car to my name until after I graduated.

Incidentally, I never saw one tuition bill.  My parents managed that.  There was no rental agreement for dorms either - my college REQUIRED everyone to live on campus (yes, EVERYONE) unless they got a waiver, so everything was built in.  The dorms didn't even have addresses - the only college address anyone ever had was a PO box.

As for the frontplate propaganda site... their arguments are bull.  Any vehicle legally parked on the street would have the REAR plate facing traffic, not the front.  Police and toll cameras on the road can read the rear plate just as easily as the front.  As for LIDAR... doing such forms of speed enforcement are immoral.  There is nothing unsafe about driving faster than some number a politician pulled out of their rear.  Go after the reckless drivers instead, and you don't need things like LIDAR to find them.  They're quite obvious.

[kkt]

Don't forget that you don't live at college in the summer.  You live at home.  On a semester system, that's 1/3 of the year (when I was in college, I was home from the last week of April until the last week of August).  If you go to college out of state, does that mean you're changing your licence twice a year?

Not everyone goes home for the summer.  Some get jobs in the college town, some go to some other place.  If you consider the college your home, you don't have to be there all the time, just a majority of the year.  Plenty of teachers, both K-12 and college, don't have their regular jobs for the summer and leave town too, they don't have to change their driver's licenses.  Students have an equal right to vote in the place they consider to be home.  Have your mail held or temporarily forwarded for the summer.  It's not rocket surgery.

In any case, I do all my business electronically.  I get my bank statements online.  I get my credit card statements online.  I get my electric/internet bills, now that I have them, online.  As such, I don't have paper copies of many of the documents that can be used as proof of residency in NY.  Had I gone to college out of state, I couldn't have changed my car registration even if I wanted to: my parents didn't transfer the car to my name until after I graduated.

It seems like you're making this harder than it needs to be.  Residential lease can be one, any piece of postmarked mail can be another.  Ta-da.

Incidentally, I never saw one tuition bill.  My parents managed that.  There was no rental agreement for dorms either - my college REQUIRED everyone to live on campus (yes, EVERYONE) unless they got a waiver, so everything was built in.  The dorms didn't even have addresses - the only college address anyone ever had was a PO box.

I am amazed that the're no rental or lease agreement or other statement signed by both reps of the college and the student.  If you felt that the college was your home, and really wanted to register to vote there, I bet they could have provided a letter or something.  If not, use other ways of establishing residency.

As for the frontplate propaganda site... their arguments are bull.  Any vehicle legally parked on the street would have the REAR plate facing traffic, not the front.  Police and toll cameras on the road can read the rear plate just as easily as the front.  As for LIDAR... doing such forms of speed enforcement are immoral.  There is nothing unsafe about driving faster than some number a politician pulled out of their rear.  Go after the reckless drivers instead, and you don't need things like LIDAR to find them.  They're quite obvious.

Both front and rear plates show if the car is visible from traffic on both sides of the street.  A hit and run driver is a lot more likely to be identified if there are two plates.  You give up your right to anonymity when you drive.