NJ Self-Service Gas?

[TXtoNJ]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-18/n-j-lawmakers-propose-bill-to-allow-voluntary-self-serve-gas

Not sure what to make of this. On the one hand, the law is terribly antiquated. On the other, it doesn't seem to add too much to the price of gas, and is very convenient during the winter. I don't see the full service requirement lasting very long if the law passes.

[KEVIN_224]

Until a year ago, I wasn't even aware that Oregon still does this as well.

[bing101]

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/02/the_real_reason_self-service_gas_was_banned_in_nj_corruption_not_safety.html

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/05/16/new-jersey-self-service-gas-station-proposal/

Pretty Shocking that Full Service gas still exist. Wow I never heard of Gas Attendents before. But Thats Because I live in California and all the gas places I been to are Self-Service.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtju4jhpZZo

[bing101]

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/05/new_jersey_and_oregon_are_fina.html

Update Oregon could be the last state in the country to have Full Service gas if New Jersey Law passes.

[PHLBOS]

I mentioned similar in a related FB-post on this subject & will post here; contrary to popular belief, there are still some (mostly older) folks that either won't nor never learned how to pump their own gas... outside of New Jersey and Oregon.

My 78-year-old mother in Massachusetts, who's been driving since the early 1950s; has never used a self-serve pump in her entire life.  As a matter of fact, she will only go to stations that have full-serve (most stations have either or but not both).  When the Prime Energy station in Salem, MA (along Lafayette St./MA 1A & 114) converted to an all-self-serve station last year; she wound up going to another station (either Spiro's or Gibbs along MA 129 in Swampscott) instead.

I half-jokingly told her that she would either have to learn how to pump self-serve or move to New Jersey or Oregon.

Unlike the stations in MA, many in PA have both self-service and full-service pumps at the same station; though the latter is typically priced some 30 cents a gallon higher than the former.

[briantroutman]

Assuming that there's nothing nefarious hidden deep within the proposal, I certainly hope it passes–and that Oregon follows suit. Then fuel attendants can join the ranks of elevator operators and bathroom attendants–jobs that were eliminated because someone finally realized: We're adults, and we can press a button or grab a towel for ourselves.

Unlike the stations in MA, many in PA have both self-service and full-service pumps at the same station; though the latter is typically priced some 30 cents a gallon higher than the former.

As I recall growing up in central PA in the late '80s and early '90s, most stations were a mix of full and self serve (often one side of the island was full, and the other was self–or there were two separate islands), while a few stations (usually service stations with repair facilities) were strictly full serve, and a growing number of newer and larger stations were self serve only. In my hometown today, I can think of only two stations out of dozens in the area that will pump for you.

Likewise, it's nearly all self serve in California now, but I know of a few stations near me that have a mix of full and self serve gasoline, one of which is primarily a repair shop and has the some of the highest gasoline prices in the state.

[bzakharin]

Assuming that there's nothing nefarious hidden deep within the proposal, I certainly hope it passes–and that Oregon follows suit. Then fuel attendants can join the ranks of elevator operators and bathroom attendants–jobs that were eliminated because someone finally realized: We're adults, and we can press a button or grab a towel for ourselves.

Unlike the stations in MA, many in PA have both self-service and full-service pumps at the same station; though the latter is typically priced some 30 cents a gallon higher than the former.

As I recall growing up in central PA in the late '80s and early '90s, most stations were a mix of full and self serve (often one side of the island was full, and the other was self–or there were two separate islands), while a few stations (usually service stations with repair facilities) were strictly full serve, and a growing number of newer and larger stations were self serve only. In my hometown today, I can think of only two stations out of dozens in the area that will pump for you.

Likewise, it's nearly all self serve in California now, but I know of a few stations near me that have a mix of full and self serve gasoline, one of which is primarily a repair shop and has the some of the highest gasoline prices in the state.

There used to be a Mobil in Northeast Philly somewhere which proclaimed in large letters: "We pump your gas. Same Price!" They had prices somewhere in between self serve and full serve of other stations in the area, 99 cents, back when I went that way. No idea if it's still there.

[bing101]

http://www.nacsonline.com/Magazine/PastIssues/2011/October2011/Pages/Feature8.aspx


Well the First known self service station is in Los Angeles in 1947.

[02 Park Ave]

Why would anyone want to go through the inconvience of getting out of their motorcar to pump gasoline into it?  I'd much rather just roll down my window and tell the attendant "Fill it with regular, please."

[roadman]

If you've ever seen the first gas station scene in Duel (the one before the truck starts harassing Dennis Weaver), you might decide that self service isn't a bad thing.

[briantroutman]

If you've ever seen the first gas station scene in Duel (the one before the truck starts harassing Dennis Weaver), you might decide that self service isn't a bad thing.

Or the second gas station scene...because while Sally's filling your car with Ethyl, you can take a look at the cages of "rattlers"  and use the telephone.

[roadman]

Or the second gas station scene...because while Sally's filling your car with Ethyl, you can take a look at the cages of "rattlers"  and use the telephone.

And we all know how well THAT worked out for Dennis Weaver.  Not to mention for Sally (My snakes!!!! My snakes!!!!).

Of course, with self-serve, you also don't have to waste time waiting for your gas while Gomer finishes his story about how he baits his lines with a little bit of cheese.

[Roadrunner75]

This is a solution searching for a problem.  Most people I know here in NJ are not jumping up and down waiting to pump their own gas here.  It occasionally gets brought up by politicians but nobody really cares.  By allowing self-serve:
1) Gas will not get cheaper. 
2) A lot of people will be out of work.

[bugo]

I don't want some douchebag spilling gas all over my car or even worse, scratching it. I would rather just pay at the pump and get in and get out.

[bing101]

This is a solution searching for a problem.  Most people I know here in NJ are not jumping up and down waiting to pump their own gas here.  It occasionally gets brought up by politicians but nobody really cares.  By allowing self-serve:
1) Gas will not get cheaper. 
2) A lot of people will be out of work.

Wow I never thought about this one in New Jersey. Its just that in most of the country the Gas Attendant seems to be mythical figure that shows up on old Texaco commercials in the 1950's for PR purposes. I never thought they ever existed in real life.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tTq17PcctZM

[corco]

One thing I do like, at least in Oregon, is that if a busy gas station is fully staffed (which doesn't happen always), having the attendants there keeps the line moving- people are more loathe to park their car at the pump and go inside and take a shit, holding everybody else up.

My Mom didn't pump gas herself until 1997 or so. My Dad always did the refueling, and on the rare case my Mom had to buy gas she'd go to the full service station. When we moved to Idaho, she had to start because there wasn't even really a full service station nearby.

Honestly, at least in Montana/Idaho/Wyoming- I know of one full service gas station in any of these three states, at this point.* There happens to be one in Helena, still. Beyond that, I suspect there has to be at least one in Boise still, but as far as Wyoming and Montana go, I'd be surprised to hear that there is one. A lot of the gas stations in Alberta have an island with full service, but that's as much as I've seen nearby.

*The caveat being that I'm not actively looking for this type of gas station.

[hbelkins]

Why would anyone want to go through the inconvience of getting out of their motorcar to pump gasoline into it?

Because part of the price per gallon you're paying is going to pay that person to pump your gas. Eliminate that legally-mandated cost, and the price you pay for gas will go down. The stations around here that have full-service charge more than they do for their self-service pumps. If I stop at such a place, I always do self-serve to save some money. Why should I pay money for someone to do what I can do myself?

[Duke87]

Why would anyone want to go through the inconvience of getting out of their motorcar to pump gasoline into it?  I'd much rather just roll down my window and tell the attendant "Fill it with regular, please."

I don't see it as an inconvenience at all. I'd rather contribute something to the process of fueling my car than just sit there twiddling my thumbs while someone else does it. But I suppose it's a question of personality. I need to constantly be doing something, I hate having to sit still while waiting for someone else.

Also, in the midst of a long trip it's nice to be able to get up and stretch your legs a bit. Full serve gas robs one of an opportunity to do this.

This is a solution searching for a problem.  Most people I know here in NJ are not jumping up and down waiting to pump their own gas here.  It occasionally gets brought up by politicians but nobody really cares.  By allowing self-serve:
1) Gas will not get cheaper. 
2) A lot of people will be out of work.

With regards to point number 2 - if a job is not actually necessary and only exists because regulation demands it, then it is not productive work and its continued existence does not actually benefit the economy. You might as well take all the people pumping gas in New Jersey and pay them to play solitaire all day, they'd accomplish just as much.

Besides, if the fact that it eliminates jobs is a reason to not do it, then why does NJ have EZpass? Why does NJ not ban self-checkouts at the supermarket? Or vending machines? Or ATMs? All of these things have automated plenty of jobs out of existence, why is full serve gas some special sacred cow that can't be touched?

48 states have figured out how to let everyone pump their own gas. There is not a single good reason for the other two to remain holdouts, it's all just local exceptionalism and social inertia.

[SP Cook]

Because part of the price per gallon you're paying is going to pay that person to pump your gas. Eliminate that legally-mandated cost, and the price you pay for gas will go down. The stations around here that have full-service charge more than they do for their self-service pumps. If I stop at such a place, I always do self-serve to save some money. Why should I pay money for someone to do what I can do myself?

Of course.  Basic economics and business management.  In fact, in my area, the desire for cost savings has pushed 99% of the full-serve stations out of business.  I can really only think of two stations that even offer full-serve.  Both are located in ultra-rich neighborhood and charge confiscatory prices.  Their clientele are the rich white landlords, and more often, the rich white widowed landladies, of Charleston or Huntington.   

[Pete from Boston]

This is a solution searching for a problem.  Most people I know here in NJ are not jumping up and down waiting to pump their own gas here.  It occasionally gets brought up by politicians but nobody really cares.  By allowing self-serve:
1) Gas will not get cheaper. 
2) A lot of people will be out of work.

Agreed.  Notice that most of the cheering for this measure (here, at least) is not coming from folks from New Jersey.  I am very glad to have someone pump for me in the cold or rain.

There are more full-serve than self in my immediate area, most of them small independents, and they unquestionably make up the bulk of the lowest-priced stations!  Without any kind of mandate, the market manages to not find these vaunted savings from self-serve, but rather bears out just the opposite.

[odditude]

there have been countless times at busy gas stations where i've sat at a pump for several minutes waiting for an attendant, sometimes when i really need to be somewhere. i'd much prefer to have the option of doing it myself.

[Jim]

Somewhere in the past, I heard the argument that the attendants end up paying for themselves by greatly reducing the chances of a customer driving off without paying.  But if that's the case, wouldn't stations everywhere be more likely to offer or even require full service in their own economic interest? 

The full service stations I'm aware of locally either charge a few pennies more for optional full service or are entirely full service and advertise that fact on their signage.  It seems there's little if any difference in price.

When traveling in NJ, the only time it really bothers me is when I'm sitting there waiting for several minutes for someone to start pumping or to replace my gas cap when I'm perfectly capable.  I'm also a little uneasy at times handing my credit card over because some of the attendants leave the card half way in the reader the whole time the gas is pumping.  Not sure what the point of that would be - I don't need to swipe my card twice when I pay at the pump everywhere else.

[jeffandnicole]

Many New Jerseyians loudly say they want full serve to stay. Yet, NJ typically loses people to other states, whether it be moving away from the high taxes, relocation because of jobs, going to college out of state, etc.  Not once has anyone said they had to move back to Jersey because they couldn't deal with the pressures of pumping their own gas.   

This is a solution searching for a problem.  Most people I know here in NJ are not jumping up and down waiting to pump their own gas here.

There's quite a number that do.  But then again, I've never really seen people jump up and down for much of anything, unless they're protesting something.  And often times, they're protesting just because they want to.  They aren't even really involved, or they got the facts wrong (thanks giving-us-only-some-of-the-story Media).  Even better - look at the online petition websites...most people that sign them have nothing to do whatsoever with the issue.  Most of them are from out of state, sign with false names, etc.

It occasionally gets brought up by politicians but nobody really cares.  By allowing self-serve:
1) Gas will not get cheaper. 
2) A lot of people will be out of work.

1)  Gas prices fluctuate like the wind.  Prices go up 5 cents; prices go down 3 cents.  I could compare to neighboring states - sometimes our prices go up faster; sometimes they go up slower.  No one will ever really know if gas gets cheaper or not.

2) I get gas once or twice a week. It's extremely rare for me to see the same person at a gas station, ever.  The part time, gas pumping job has to be one of the most unhealthy jobs out there.  How many people really want to be standing around gas pumps, gas fumes, and jockeying cars all day long?  We're not talking about getting rid of a high-paying, life-long career job.  We're talking about minimum wage, many times off-the-books job.  And many of these people could wind up finding work inside the store or booth instead.  Most businesses need at least 2 people inside anyway - especially if the station offers a full-serve option.  Most full-serve gas stations employee at least two people outside.  The net result is almost no jobs lost.

Agreed.  Notice that most of the cheering for this measure (here, at least) is not coming from folks from New Jersey.

We're also talking about an extremely small sample size of how many active posters from NJ?  Me, for one, would enjoy *legally* fueling my own vehicle. 

[Zeffy]

Many New Jerseyians loudly say they want full serve to stay. Yet, NJ typically loses people to other states, whether it be moving away from the high taxes, relocation because of jobs, going to college out of state, etc.  Not once has anyone said they had to move back to Jersey because they couldn't deal with the pressures of pumping their own gas.   

But they have said that whereever they moved to just wasn't as awesome as New Jersey, so they moved back. 

We're also talking about an extremely small sample size of how many active posters from NJ?  Me, for one, would enjoy *legally* fueling my own vehicle. 

I'm indifferent. I don't mind letting someone else fill my car up, because I'm just generally a lazy person anyway, so if it's steaming hot outside or thunderstorming or whatever, I'd much rather just stay in my own car and let them do it for me.

[Roadrunner75]

1)  Gas prices fluctuate like the wind.  Prices go up 5 cents; prices go down 3 cents.  I could compare to neighboring states - sometimes our prices go up faster; sometimes they go up slower.  No one will ever really know if gas gets cheaper or not.

Agreed that it would be hard to tell if there are any savings due to the constant fluctuations.  Which also of course makes it much easier to not pass on any savings to the consumer by claiming other factors involved in the prices.  One thing we will not see is some dramatic drop in prices easily attributable to a shift to self-serve.  We will pay the same prices we would have paid beforehand, for less service.

2) I get gas once or twice a week. It's extremely rare for me to see the same person at a gas station, ever.  The part time, gas pumping job has to be one of the most unhealthy jobs out there.  How many people really want to be standing around gas pumps, gas fumes, and jockeying cars all day long?  We're not talking about getting rid of a high-paying, life-long career job.  We're talking about minimum wage, many times off-the-books job.  And many of these people could wind up finding work inside the store or booth instead.  Most businesses need at least 2 people inside anyway - especially if the station offers a full-serve option.  Most full-serve gas stations employee at least two people outside.  The net result is almost no jobs lost.

I still think we'll lose a lot of jobs - NJ.com estimated at least 10,000+ full time jobs in an article today, not counting part-time.  Is it necessarily a reason to maintain full-serve?  No, but we're still going to lose a lot of jobs, even if they're not very good jobs.

I never thought of full-serve as a problem, and it's mostly people I've met from out of state who complain about it.  I also don't find self-serve when I'm out of state really that much quicker than full-serve in NJ in general.  Of course you will find a busy station where they might take a little time to get to you, but usually it's not a problem.