NYC Roads

[SignBridge]

No way it was easier there. There was actually less space to work with at that Clearview Expwy interchange than there was at the Van Wyck Expwy. Interestingly the Clearview interchange was built first, completed in 1961. The Van Wyck was not until 1964, though it was the same era of expansion, preceding the 1964 World's Fair.

[Mergingtraffic]

I read an article the MTA put up new signs for the Verrazzano with the correct spelling. Sign looks good excpet for the odd shaped I-278 shield.  IDK why this is always such a problem with computer technology that designs signs.


Look at the pic in the article. The I-278 sign and why is WEST soooo close to it?!  We use computers now why is it always wrong?
https://www.6sqft.com/after-55-years-the-verrazzano-bridge-gets-a-second-z/

Look at this old sign...it's perfectly done.  There was never a bad 3di shield.

[SignBridge]

Surely you're not implying that people can do things better than computers (in some cases)!

[Alps]

You really don't know why people can grab a 2di shield and stretch it to 3di in computers, but by hand they had to grab the proper template?

[Duke87]

No way it was easier there. There was actually less space to work with at that Clearview Expwy interchange than there was at the Van Wyck Expwy. Interestingly the Clearview interchange was built first, completed in 1961. The Van Wyck was not until 1964, though it was the same era of expansion, preceding the 1964 World's Fair.

Ehhhh most of the Cleavview/LIE interchange footprint takes up space formerly occupied by Cunningham Park. Van Wyck/LIE has a cemetery in the SE quadrant.

Regardless, It's not just about space. It's about money. Building direct ramps for the missing movements at the Van Wyck/LIE intechange would have, due to the Flushing River and other roadways directly underneath, required they be built as elevated structure. For ramps that would have only served generally local purposes, this could quite reasonably have been deemed not worth the expense when College Point Blvd was right there to handle those movements easily enough. 

The Clearview/LIE interchange, meanwhile, only uses bridge structures for where ramps and roadways directly cross, everything else is otherwise at ground level. Thus, the marginal cost of the local ramps was lower there.

[cpzilliacus]

N.Y. Times: Fix for a Hated N.Y.C. Highway: How About an $11 Billion Tunnel?
The City Council wants to transform the crumbling Brooklyn-Queens Expressway by building a three-mile tunnel underneath Brooklyn.

Cities like Boston, San Francisco and Seattle have all done it – razed hulking, unsightly highways dividing the heart of their downtowns, pushed a new roadway underground and turned the space above into an urban paradise.

Could New York be next?

The City Council – and a top mayoral candidate – are looking to pull off a similarly ambitious feat with the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, a dilapidated Robert Moses-era eyesore of a highway running along the scenic Brooklyn waterfront.

They want to tear down the elevated highway, rather than just patch it, and build a three-mile-long tunnel to replace it. The price tag: As much as $11 billion, according to a new engineering report commissioned by the City Council that is being released on Monday.

[cl94]

I have a feeling this will turn into something where the BQE will be literally falling down before anything gets done. $11 billion is no small chunk of change and there's a maze of other tunnels they will need to deal with to build under Brooklyn Heights.

At least they came to their senses and realized that just ripping out the highway would create more problems than it would solve. The trucks need to go somewhere and lord knows the NIMBYs in Brooklyn Heights who want no trucks on their streets are the same ones who order something on Amazon and expect it the next day.

[bluecountry]

Oh I hope they do bury it underground or deck it, odds they do?

[D-Dey65]

At least they came to their senses and realized that just ripping out the highway would create more problems than it would solve. The trucks need to go somewhere and lord knows the NIMBYs in Brooklyn Heights who want no trucks on their streets are the same ones who order something on Amazon and expect it the next day.

In Brooklyn, yes. I wish they'd understand this in The Bronx.

[1995hoo]

....

Look at the pic in the article. The I-278 sign and why is WEST soooo close to it?!  We use computers now why is it always wrong?
https://www.6sqft.com/after-55-years-the-verrazzano-bridge-gets-a-second-z/

....

Notwithstanding the spelling issue, I always liked the "classic" sign at that intersection that was posted when I was a kid and that appeared in Saturday Night Fever:

[PHLBOS]

You really don't know why people can grab a 2di shield and stretch it to 3di in computers, but by hand they had to grab the proper template?

To add, I've seen similar done with numerals for 3di shields as well.  Instead of using Series C numerals; a CAD designer will simply select Series D numerals and elongate/stretch them. 
Example of such along I-476/PA Turnpike NE Extension

[vdeane]

Series D actually looks just fine for 3di shields, if you use normal-sized numbers instead of jumbo-sized.  I don't like those jumbo-sized number interstate shields no matter what series is used.

[famartin]

Oh I hope they do bury it underground or deck it, odds they do?

I kinda hope they don't, the view of Manhattan from that stretch of the BQE is nice.

[Beltway]

I have a feeling this will turn into something where the BQE will be literally falling down before anything gets done. $11 billion is no small chunk of change and there's a maze of other tunnels they will need to deal with to build under Brooklyn Heights.

The Seattle tunnel cost $1.8 billion for the tunnel itself.

The Boston Artery/Tunnel project had a lot more than just putting the artery underground, such as extending I-90 under two harbor sections, and had massive cost overruns.

The $11 billion for the BQE would be a massive amount of funds.

[D-Dey65]

New topic;
Today I was looking at some Wikimedia Commons images of street clock in New York City, when I decided that perhaps I should make a new category for the one on 53rd Street and Sixth Avenue, which happens to be on the corner of the Midtown New York Hilton. I discovered that along 6th Avenue there are a bunch of cosmetics stores and other shops with one big lobby leading to the sidewalk in the middle. What does this have to do with NYC roads, you ask? All those shops used to be the driveway. Just another effort by NYC to make it more difficult for drivers to get around in the city.

BTW, I didn't make that category for the sidewalk clock yet.

[Rothman]

I really doubt a tunnel would be the chosen design.  NY should learn from the Syracuse experience, where the public made NYSDOT study the tunnel so many times that FHWA is now refusing to reimburse NY for the most recent go-around.

NYCDOT really seems to want to just replace the thing.

[Beltway]

I really doubt a tunnel would be the chosen design.  NY should learn from the Syracuse experience, where the public made NYSDOT study the tunnel so many times that FHWA is now refusing to reimburse NY for the most recent go-around.
NYCDOT really seems to want to just replace the thing.

Replace the elevated and cantilevered sections with similar but modern designs?

[Rothman]

I really doubt a tunnel would be the chosen design.  NY should learn from the Syracuse experience, where the public made NYSDOT study the tunnel so many times that FHWA is now refusing to reimburse NY for the most recent go-around.
NYCDOT really seems to want to just replace the thing.

Replace the elevated and cantilevered sections with similar but modern designs?

Yep.

[cl94]

I really doubt a tunnel would be the chosen design.  NY should learn from the Syracuse experience, where the public made NYSDOT study the tunnel so many times that FHWA is now refusing to reimburse NY for the most recent go-around.
NYCDOT really seems to want to just replace the thing.

Replace the elevated and cantilevered sections with similar but modern designs?

Yep.

This is what I see happening. The NIMBYs might want it gone, but the thing about it being an Interstate Highway is that they can't get rid of it without the feds approving.

The Sheridan is a bit of a special case here. Not only is it redundant, part of the reconstruction involves improving truck access to Hunts Point Market and industrial facilities isolated on the east side of the expressway. It had so little traffic that its demotion has had no impact on the transportation network at this point and, once Phase 2 is complete, it will end up being a net positive. A lot of people on the side of removal are using that as the example, but like the Inner Loop, those are special cases that were near the end of their service lives and did not have nearly enough use to justify replacement.

[SignBridge]

I agree with cl94. A modern rebuild of the existing highway structure is the most likely and probably the most realistic.

Another point that nobody mentioned is that given the massive cost overruns that afflicted Boston's Big Dig, it's reasonable to assume that the cost of $11 billion for a Brooklyn tunnel would probably double before it was completed. 

[Rothman]

If it's $22 million, build the tunnel.

[SignBridge]

Sorry about that typo! I've corrected my post.

[Beltway]

Another point that nobody mentioned is that given the massive cost overruns that afflicted Boston's Big Dig, it's reasonable to assume that the cost of $11 billion for a Brooklyn tunnel would probably double before it was completed. 

No ... the Big Dig should be considered old history.

Agencies have become much better at accurately costing megaprojects in the last 20 years.

[The Ghostbuster]

How are they going to reconstruct the triple cantilever segment of the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway without tearing anything down? I'd imagine if even one building in the vicinity of the expressway has to be demolished, the locals will go apeshit. Although I would like to see a deep-bored tunnel built, the expense and amount of time to build it would likely be too great and too lengthily. It seems like a no-win situation to me.

[SignBridge]

I agree it's a no-win situation. Whatever finally gets done is going to be painful.......