Should people worry really about Hollywood retrofitting on TV Shows

[Pete from Boston]

You know nobody ever questioned MASH being on the air longer than the actual Korean War, which the show was to take place.

On the contrary, this is one of the most often repeated comments about the show.

However, this assumes the scenario I mentioned above where the show is assumes to keep happening unseen for six days and twenty-three hours between episodes. If you added up the total time of the events on the show, I'm sure it works out. 

[vtk]

What bugs me about this topic is the term "retrofit". I think the OP is more worried about retcons or general continuity errors.

Surprised nobody brought up Coy and Vance Duke.

[Rothman]

What bugs me about this topic is the term "retrofit". I think the OP is more worried about retcons or general continuity errors.

Surprised nobody brought up Coy and Vance Duke.

Heh.  I remember that change as a kid watching the series.  Didn't cause me any grief and hey, that's when the Green Machine episodes were done.

[PHLBOS]

I'm surprised that M*A*S*H wasn't mentioned yet.  A show  Regarding the earlier-mentioned M*A*S*H covering a 3-year war that ran for 11 years; some earlier episodes would state that it's 1952 while later shows would state that it's 1951.

Some other time-related inconsistencies:

The final score of the Army-Navy game (shown in one 1st Season episode) doesn't match any of the Army-Navy games played from 1950-52.  Such an oversight was probably intentional/deliberate.

While the show had 3 Christmas-themed episodes (from Season 1, 7 & 9; a correct total given the duration of the war); other episodes (in Seasons 5, 9 & 10) give hints of other Christmasses. 

One episode that featured two New Year Eve celebrations (1950-51 & 1951-52) and the time in between (Season 9's A War For Alll Seasons) completely ignores the past existence of Trapper John, Col. Blake, Frank Burns & Radar.

Bold denotes corrections.

[Henry]

Then there's the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, where they switched a dark-skinned Aunt Vivian to a light-skinned one, and made Will's cousin Nick from an infant in one season to a five-year old in the next. I never really liked the former change, but the latter was more expected because of the precedents mentioned earlier (Family Ties, Growing Pains).

[jwolfer]

And There's Company and Charlie's angels swapping out pretty girls with no explanation.. Or the phone call from Chrissy.

Watching one of the behind the scenes shows explained contract disputes and the stars demanding more $ and producer not giving in to demands

[PHLBOS]

And There's Company and Charlie's angels swapping out pretty girls with no explanation.. Or the phone call from Chrissy.

Watching one of the behind the scenes shows explained contract disputes and the stars demanding more $ and producer not giving in to demands

The original Hawaii Five-0 did similar when replacing Kono (played by a disc jockey named Zulu) with Ben (Al Harrington, who's made cameo appearances (as a different character) in the new series)  in Season 5.  In the epsiodes, there was no mention of what happened w/Kono nor how Ben joined the Five-0 team.   

[Pete from Boston]

I'm surprised that M*A*S*H wasn't mentioned yet.  An show covering a 3-year war that ran for 11 years.  Some earlier episodes would state that it's 1952 while later shows would state that it's 1951.

Some other time-related inconsistencies:

The final score of the Army-Navy game (shown in one 1st Season episode) doesn't match any of the Army-Navy games played from 1950-52.  Such an oversight was probably intentional/deliberate.

While the show had 3 Christmas-themed episodes (from Season 1, 7 & 9; a correct total given the duration of the war); other episodes (in Seasons 5, 9 & 10) give hints of other Christmasses. 

One episode that featured two New Year Eve celebrations (1950-51 & 1951-52) and the time in between (Season 9's A War For Alll Seasons) completely ignores the past existence of Trapper John, Col. Blake, Frank Burns & Radar.

It was just mentioned, but whatever.

M*A*S*H gets a pass from me because the plot rarely relied on these details remaining consistent (and because it was a brilliantly written and acted show).  Each episode was really a self-contained play that relied on more or less established relationships with characters, but with the war and size of the ensemble providing sufficient excuse for a lot of fluidity.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Harry Morgan's M*A*S*H role as the crazy General Steele a year before returning full time as Col. Potter.

Seinfeld is also full of this stuff.  Jerry's father was replaced, as was Lloyd Braun.  The manner and past life stories of the characters kept being tweaked until they settled into what we all know today.

[PHLBOS]

It was just mentioned, but whatever.

I've since corrected my earlier post; I didn't realize it was mentioned on the previous page (and somewhat buried in a paragraph).

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Harry Morgan's M*A*S*H role as the crazy General Steele a year before returning full time as Col. Potter.

The reason why such wasn't mentioned is because that's just a case where one actor is playing different roles on different episodes.  Other shows have done similar; in Barney Miller, both Steve Landesberg and Ron Carey played one-off guest roles prior to their portraying their established roles as Detective Dietrich and Officer Levitt respectively.  I dont' believe (I could be wrong) that such constitutes what the OP is looking for or refering to regarding retrofitting a show.

One TV show-movie retrofit was Star Trek's Space Seed episode vs. Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan; that latter was a sequel (of sorts) to the former.  When Khan first appears to Chekov, they both recognize each other; however, the TV episode predated (by roughly a half-season) Chekov (Walter Koenig) joining the cast.

[Big John]

Or the most infamous of switching actors playing Darren in Bewitched.

[kkt]

MASH was 251 episodes, so about 130 hours of airtime (a few episodes were two-parters and there was Goodbye, Farewell, and Amen at 2 hours).  But they were clearly not attempting to track any particular time of the war.  I think the Chinese entered the war twice.

MASH had different guest stars playing Margaret's husband Donald Penobscot, the two times he was on the show.  And Rosie the owner of the dive across the street changed actresses.

[roadman65]

And There's Company and Charlie's angels swapping out pretty girls with no explanation.. Or the phone call from Chrissy.

Watching one of the behind the scenes shows explained contract disputes and the stars demanding more $ and producer not giving in to demands

Yes Farrah Fawcett departure was written in as Cheryl Ladd's character when first appearing was mentioning that she was Fawcett's character's sister, and sending her regards.

Chrissy left the show supposedly to visit a sick relative, but later forgotten.  Her immediate replacement, Cindy (Chrissy's cousin) when she left they did not write her out, and so did Lana (that annoying woman who was obsessed with Jack who lived upstairs) when she left.  Both had an attack of Chuck Cunningham Syndrome.

However, on Three's Company Teri Alden (third and final blonde roommate) was explained coming as Cindy was leaving for college and they needed a new roommate where Jack got into an argument with Teri in the ER upon cutting his finger at work, and Janet ran into her inviting her to move in.

[vdeane]

One TV show-movie retrofit was Star Trek's Space Seed episode vs. Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan; that latter was a sequel (of sorts) to the former.  When Khan first appears to Chekov, they both recognize each other; however, the TV episode predated (by roughly a half-season) Chekov (Walter Koenig) joining the cast.

Not really.  The Enterprise had a crew of 400.  Just because Chekov didn't appear until season 2 doesn't mean he wasn't on the ship in season 1 in a different, less prominent position (one of the novels had him as one of the security officers who took Kahn and his people to Ceti Alpha V).

[Rothman]

And now I'm thinking of Lt. Saavik going from Kirstie Alley to Robin Curtis.

[Laura]

Haha the thing that bothers me about MASH is the inaccuracy of the hairstyles, lol. I doubt anyone who watched the original run cared, though, that it was a show set in the 50s with 70s hairstyles, but it bothers me!

[Big John]

Haha the thing that bothers me about MASH is the inaccuracy of the hairstyles, lol. I doubt anyone who watched the original run cared, though, that it was a show set in the 50s with 70s hairstyles, but it bothers me!

Also in Happy Days after the first 2 seasons along with its spinoff Laverne and Shirley.


But another factor in M*A*S*H was those hairstyles would never have been allowed in the Army whether it was in the 50s, 70s or any other time since WWI.

[Jardine]

IIRC, the 3 Bradley sisters on Petticoat Junction were played by 5 actresses. Kate Bradley had a stand in for one episode.

On Red Dwarf, a  'proto' Kryton appeared in one episode a season or two ahead of a similar/same character being added to the crew.  The computer was played by at least 3 actors, one male caucasian, one female, and one black.

Several actors filled in for Heath Ledger in (help me out here)

[Rothman]

Several actors filled in for Heath Ledger in (help me out here)

Ah, The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus.   Johnny Depp, Jude Law and Colin Farrell.

[The Nature Boy]

Haha the thing that bothers me about MASH is the inaccuracy of the hairstyles, lol. I doubt anyone who watched the original run cared, though, that it was a show set in the 50s with 70s hairstyles, but it bothers me!

Also in Happy Days after the first 2 seasons along with its spinoff Laverne and Shirley.


But another factor in M*A*S*H was those hairstyles would never have been allowed in the Army whether it was in the 50s, 70s or any other time since WWI.

Happy Days did pretty well until around 78-79. When Chachi showed up, the accuracy of the hairstyles went into the toilet. Ron Howard and Henry Winkler still tried and I give them credit for it.

[roadman65]

Haha the thing that bothers me about MASH is the inaccuracy of the hairstyles, lol. I doubt anyone who watched the original run cared, though, that it was a show set in the 50s with 70s hairstyles, but it bothers me!

BJ's mustache is not allowed in the Army.  Then the fact that Hawkeye and Trapper, later BJ, if in real life would be held in insubordination for not following protocol.  Klinger would not be allowed to be in drag if it were in real life.  Then again on another show, Gomer Pyle made it into the Marines, yet in real life the USMC would never let a goofball like Gomer even come near the Marines let alone serve in them. 

As far as Happy Days go, yes Chachi's hair was out of style for the era he played in on the show as that was totally 70's and 80's, but then again Howard Cunningham had a distant cousin (also played by Baio) who looked just like Chachi on a failed Happy Days spin off called Blansky's beauties.  In fact Howard's distant relative and Chachi would be lookalikes in the fantasy world of Happy Day's.

Also no one mentions the fact that the exterior Cunningham House's windows do not match the interiors windows or that the front door was moved from one side of the living room to the other between seasons two and three.  Even the bathrooms in Arnolds are not consistent with the doors outside of them.  Of course different stage settings are used, but the producers failed to notice how close the two doors are between the mens and the womens room.  Yet from the inside after entering the men's room you turn right. So where the sinks are that Fonzie always leaned against when talking to Richie should be the women's room door.

Of course, you could also talk about Fonzie having supernatural powers by hitting the pay phone to have it release a coin from it, or have the jukebox play a song just by hitting it.  Even in one episode he stopped the pinball machine by hitting it.  All of these explained it by calling it the Fonzarelli touch in that his being cool causes all that just like snapping a finger and all single girls come running to him like they all know him.

Happy Days is the most unrealistic show around and more so than MASH I would say.

[PHLBOS]

MASH was 251 episodes, so about 130 hours of airtime (a few episodes were two-parters and there was Goodbye, Farewell, and Amen at 2 hours).

That finale epsiode was 2-and-a-half hours and held the record for being the most-watched show (even beating the Super Bowls) for at least a decade or two. 

MASH had different guest stars playing Margaret's husband Donald Penobscot, the two times he was on the show.

Several shows had different actors or actresses playing the same character (on different episodes; especially if the character is a minor one... Darrin of Bewitched, Lionel of The Jeffersons and Mr. French of Family Affair being exceptions. 

And Rosie the owner of the dive across the street changed actresses.

... roughly 2 or 3 times.  The final Rosie, Eileen Saki, first appeared on the show 2 years earlier than her first Rosie gig as a head madaam (Season 5's Bug Out episode).

Haha the thing that bothers me about MASH is the inaccuracy of the hairstyles, lol. I doubt anyone who watched the original run cared, though, that it was a show set in the 50s with 70s hairstyles, but it bothers me!

Mid-way through the show's 8th season; Loretta Swit (Hot Lips) didn't care and went early 80s with her hair.

Chrissy left the show supposedly to visit a sick relative, but later forgotten.  Her immediate replacement, Cindy (Chrissy's cousin) when she left they did not write her out, and so did Lana (that annoying woman who was obsessed with Jack who lived upstairs) when she left.  Both had an attack of Chuck Cunningham Syndrome.

However, on Three's Company Teri Alden (third and final blonde roommate) was explained coming as Cindy was leaving for college and they needed a new roommate where Jack got into an argument with Teri in the ER upon cutting his finger at work, and Janet ran into her inviting her to move in.

During Season 2 of One Day at a Time, Ginny Wrobliki (played by Mary Louise Wilson) joined the cast but was dropped from the show with no explanation either before Season 3 started.

Happy Days did pretty well until around 78-79. When Chachi showed up, the accuracy of the hairstyles went into the toilet. Ron Howard and Henry Winkler still tried and I give them credit for it.

IMHO, Happy Days and Laverne & Shirley (or at least the writers/producers and so forth) were so busy focusing on the 1950s; they IMHO ran into a rough time transitioning the show into the 1960s.  Unlike M*A*S*H, those shows weren't restricted to a particular set of years.  Having Mork (Robin Williams) making a comeback appearance on Happy Days and telling about earth circa 1979 didn't exactly help the show's nostalgic flavor one iota.

And it wasn't just hairstyles that deviated from the show's time period but on at least one occasion cars.  The most blatant example of such was on one Laverne & Shirley episode (the final Milwaukee season) where an exterior shot clearly shows a 1970 Buick (I believe a Skylark model) parked in front of a building but the episode was set in the early 60s (and cars looked very different from their latter-decade successors).

BJ's mustache is not allowed in the Army.

I guess the same could be said regarding Major Freedman's (Allan Arbus) mustache as well.  In the original M*A*S*H movie; Trapper, played by Elliot Gould, sported a real heavy mustache.

[roadman65]

In the show Maude (a spinoff of All In The Family)you could also say the same for the opening sequence of the show as old 1950's era automobiles were used when showing one particular roadway and the fact that you crossed the George Washington Bridge to get from Manhattan to Tuckahoe, NY which are both on the same side of the Hudson River.  The show took place in the early to late 70's, so cars have changed very much in the time the film clips were taken to production.

However, with Norman Lear, he did not believe in Rapid Aging like most shows do as Little Joey did age with time even with his absence in the final season when Reiner and Struthers left the show to pursue other venues in real life which forced the toddlers appearance to be no more. 

Even Bewiched, although Tabitha aged normally her brother Adam rapidly grew though.   You do see a lot of babies rapid age on screen its like no body likes a toddler, but a baby or a preschool child and up.  Just AITF has the real world aging of a child as even Full House, with Michelle being played the whole time by the Olsen Twins, still had the twin boys of Jessie and Becky rapid age later on in the show.

[Big John]

Haha the thing that bothers me about MASH is the inaccuracy of the hairstyles, lol. I doubt anyone who watched the original run cared, though, that it was a show set in the 50s with 70s hairstyles, but it bothers me!

Also in Happy Days after the first 2 seasons along with its spinoff Laverne and Shirley.


But another factor in M*A*S*H was those hairstyles would never have been allowed in the Army whether it was in the 50s, 70s or any other time since WWI.

Happy Days did pretty well until around 78-79. When Chachi showed up, the accuracy of the hairstyles went into the toilet. Ron Howard and Henry Winkler still tried and I give them credit for it.

The first major character to break the rule was Potsie around season 3-4 sporting a contemporary hairstyle of the mid-70s. 
Intro of season 4 shows separate snippets of him with the 50s look and the 70s look. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljylDX_MFug

But also credit the Ralph Malph character in still trying also.

[The Nature Boy]

Happy Days really did miss out on covering important events in the early 60s. If I recall correctly, they simply ignored the Kennedy assassination when the show would have reached November 1963. By the early 80s, it seemed to take place in some parallel universe.

[Big John]

And Laverne and Shirley did skip some years when moving to Hollywood.  As it was early 60s in their last season in Milwaukee, but they made it very clear what years they were representing in the 3 Hollywood seasons (1965-67).  Though it seemed mostly to show Laverne's affinity toward the Beatles.

Though it escaped reality too.  As why did the layoffs of Laverne and Shirley cause the whole cast to suddenly pull roots and move to Hollywood along with them?  Then it its last year, how can they have a show called "Laverne and Shirley" if Shirley wasn't in it and referred to in the show's title only?