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Author Topic: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract  (Read 73666 times)

jp the roadgeek

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #375 on: June 12, 2019, 04:44:11 PM »

Has anyone ever seen this page?: Massachusetts Highways for the 21st Century: A Guide to Current Roadways and Proposals For Their Future: http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/index.html

I've checked it periodically to see if Massachusetts will ever change their mind about converting to mileage-based exits (which I doubt).
I think Bob7374 has seen it a few times. :D
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bob7374

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #376 on: June 12, 2019, 11:52:58 PM »

 :nod:
Has anyone ever seen this page?: Massachusetts Highways for the 21st Century: A Guide to Current Roadways and Proposals For Their Future: http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/index.html

I've checked it periodically to see if Massachusetts will ever change their mind about converting to mileage-based exits (which I doubt).
I think Bob7374 has seen it a few times. :D
May have.  Just posted some new I-90 sign photos there.

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #377 on: June 13, 2019, 09:03:31 AM »

:nod:
Has anyone ever seen this page?: Massachusetts Highways for the 21st Century: A Guide to Current Roadways and Proposals For Their Future: http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/index.html

I've checked it periodically to see if Massachusetts will ever change their mind about converting to mileage-based exits (which I doubt).
I think Bob7374 has seen it a few times. :D
May have.  Just posted some new I-90 sign photos there.
No offense but if there are indeed any updates/movements regarding MA converting their interchange numbers; such will likely get posted on this thread first.
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #378 on: November 18, 2019, 03:22:20 PM »

I saw this on Twitter earlier. Will exit numbers finally get updated?

?s=12&fbclid=IwAR1tS_8946PEXjVFdSo2gPUOPKRLYhwviU8fN8Uiv3ZRw-8WhfuqTf48pHQ
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #379 on: November 18, 2019, 03:28:44 PM »

I hope they really mean it this time. The sequiential to mileage-based exit renumbering project should not have been held up, especially by the rich and powerful in Cape Cod. Personally, I expected it would be at least 20-30 years before the Massachusetts DOT revived the project (if at all).
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Ben114

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #380 on: November 18, 2019, 04:23:47 PM »

Let's hope with the west-to-east approach that the Cape can see the results and get on board.
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bob7374

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #381 on: November 18, 2019, 04:34:12 PM »

Guess I'm glad now I've kept my future MA exit number sites up. Will update the text. For those who haven't seen it, the interstate list is at:
http://www.malmeroads.net/mass21c/intexits.html

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #382 on: November 18, 2019, 05:02:43 PM »

Massachusetts House Bill H.3078

Bold emphasis added to the below:
Quote from: H.3078 Excerpt
The exit numbers along all interstate highways within Massachusetts shall be converted to a mileage-based system. The plan will include the following provisions:

(a) As closely as practicable, follow the Federal Highway Administration mileage-based exit numbering system

(b) Follow the convention that the numbering shall start at the southernmost or westernmost terminus of the interstate highway

Based on the above, the conversion (for now) will only be applied to Interstates.  Doing so will keep such a conversion out of Cape Cod.  Maybe doing the Interstates first then other highways later should've been the approach in the first place IMHO.
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southshore720

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #383 on: November 18, 2019, 05:03:50 PM »

Per WBZ (Channel 4), "Routes that don’t have exit numbers already, like Route 28, won’t get new numbers. And numbers will not be changed on the Lowell Connector, Route 213, Interstate 291 and Interstate 391 due to spacing reasons."   :-o

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/11/18/massachusetts-exits-new-numbers-mileage-signs/?fbclid=IwAR0hV_zMsBYiz_F8xyR233aGz2Rnte7KcxWn7DgB-ndHpOTqkx7gwPX4-vY
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jp the roadgeek

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #384 on: November 18, 2019, 05:56:57 PM »

84, The Mass Pike and I-91 (except through Springfield) shouldn’t be too confusing.  93 should be fun between the I-95/MA 128 junctions.  95 outside of 128 won’t be too tough.  190, 295, and 395 should be a breeze.  290 might be on that list with 291 and 391 with all the tightly packed exits in Worcester. This is going to make CTDOT look foolish now that the entire length of I-84 outside of CT will be mileage based exits (and the fact it may take till 2030 or later to complete the state).
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KEVIN_224

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #385 on: November 18, 2019, 06:06:16 PM »

I'm sure I-84 could be done in a day! Exits 1, 2 and 3 A/B become Exits 3, 5 and 7 A/B. The challenge in western Massachusetts will be in greater Springfield.
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roadman

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #386 on: November 18, 2019, 06:15:28 PM »

Massachusetts House Bill H.3078

Bold emphasis added to the below:
Quote from: H.3078 Excerpt
The exit numbers along all interstate highways within Massachusetts shall be converted to a mileage-based system. The plan will include the following provisions:

(a) As closely as practicable, follow the Federal Highway Administration mileage-based exit numbering system

(b) Follow the convention that the numbering shall start at the southernmost or westernmost terminus of the interstate highway

Based on the above, the conversion (for now) will only be applied to Interstates.  Doing so will keep such a conversion out of Cape Cod.  Maybe doing the Interstates first then other highways later should've been the approach in the first place IMHO.

. The current MassDOT plan is for most freeways, not just Interstates.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #387 on: November 18, 2019, 07:25:04 PM »

84, The Mass Pike and I-91 (except through Springfield) shouldn’t be too confusing.  93 should be fun between the I-95/MA 128 junctions.  95 outside of 128 won’t be too tough.  190, 295, and 395 should be a breeze.  290 might be on that list with 291 and 391 with all the tightly packed exits in Worcester. This is going to make CTDOT look foolish now that the entire length of I-84 outside of CT will be mileage based exits (and the fact it may take till 2030 or later to complete the state).
I'm not sure what the plan is for I-290 - will it extend I-395's exit numbers, or will it start over at 1? Will I-395 continue CT's exit numbers, or will it start over at 1?

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #388 on: November 18, 2019, 08:34:36 PM »

Massachusetts House Bill H.3078

Bold emphasis added to the below:
Quote from: H.3078 Excerpt
The exit numbers along all interstate highways within Massachusetts shall be converted to a mileage-based system. The plan will include the following provisions:

(a) As closely as practicable, follow the Federal Highway Administration mileage-based exit numbering system

(b) Follow the convention that the numbering shall start at the southernmost or westernmost terminus of the interstate highway

Based on the above, the conversion (for now) will only be applied to Interstates.  Doing so will keep such a conversion out of Cape Cod.  Maybe doing the Interstates first then other highways later should've been the approach in the first place IMHO.


US 6 is an interstate highway, but not an Interstate Highway.
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bob7374

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #389 on: November 18, 2019, 11:15:19 PM »

84, The Mass Pike and I-91 (except through Springfield) shouldn’t be too confusing.  93 should be fun between the I-95/MA 128 junctions.  95 outside of 128 won’t be too tough.  190, 295, and 395 should be a breeze.  290 might be on that list with 291 and 391 with all the tightly packed exits in Worcester. This is going to make CTDOT look foolish now that the entire length of I-84 outside of CT will be mileage based exits (and the fact it may take till 2030 or later to complete the state).
I'm not sure what the plan is for I-290 - will it extend I-395's exit numbers, or will it start over at 1? Will I-395 continue CT's exit numbers, or will it start over at 1?
The 2016 project plans had I-395 numbers start over at the border and then start over again at the Mass Pike for the change of route to I-290. I-395 exit numbers run from 1-7 and I-290's from 0 to 20.

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #390 on: November 19, 2019, 12:34:41 AM »

Massachusetts House Bill H.3078

Bold emphasis added to the below:
Quote from: H.3078 Excerpt
The exit numbers along all interstate highways within Massachusetts shall be converted to a mileage-based system. The plan will include the following provisions:

(a) As closely as practicable, follow the Federal Highway Administration mileage-based exit numbering system

(b) Follow the convention that the numbering shall start at the southernmost or westernmost terminus of the interstate highway

Based on the above, the conversion (for now) will only be applied to Interstates.  Doing so will keep such a conversion out of Cape Cod.  Maybe doing the Interstates first then other highways later should've been the approach in the first place IMHO.


US 6 is an interstate highway, but not an Interstate Highway.
So is NY-MA 2, and it clearly has numbers.

jp the roadgeek

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #391 on: November 19, 2019, 08:23:48 AM »

Massachusetts House Bill H.3078

Bold emphasis added to the below:
Quote from: H.3078 Excerpt
The exit numbers along all interstate highways within Massachusetts shall be converted to a mileage-based system. The plan will include the following provisions:

(a) As closely as practicable, follow the Federal Highway Administration mileage-based exit numbering system

(b) Follow the convention that the numbering shall start at the southernmost or westernmost terminus of the interstate highway

Based on the above, the conversion (for now) will only be applied to Interstates.  Doing so will keep such a conversion out of Cape Cod.  Maybe doing the Interstates first then other highways later should've been the approach in the first place IMHO.


US 6 is an interstate highway, but not an Interstate Highway.
So is NY-MA 2, and it clearly has numbers.

Add MA/US 3 too.  It has numbers, MA treats it as one route, and it runs into NH.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #392 on: November 19, 2019, 12:40:19 PM »

I'm not sure what the plan is for I-290 - will it extend I-395's exit numbers, or will it start over at 1? Will I-395 continue CT's exit numbers, or will it start over at 1?

Why should Massachusetts make the Connecticut mistake with their Route 15 (Merritt Parkway) numbering? Reset to zero at the state line.  :clap:

OR...

Are you saying for them to continue CT's numbering up to the change to I-290 in Auburn?
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #393 on: November 19, 2019, 12:52:59 PM »

84, The Mass Pike and I-91 (except through Springfield) shouldn’t be too confusing.  93 should be fun between the I-95/MA 128 junctions.  95 outside of 128 won’t be too tough.  190, 295, and 395 should be a breeze.  290 might be on that list with 291 and 391 with all the tightly packed exits in Worcester. This is going to make CTDOT look foolish now that the entire length of I-84 outside of CT will be mileage based exits (and the fact it may take till 2030 or later to complete the state).
I'm not sure what the plan is for I-290 - will it extend I-395's exit numbers, or will it start over at 1? Will I-395 continue CT's exit numbers, or will it start over at 1?
The 2016 project plans had I-395 numbers start over at the border and then start over again at the Mass Pike for the change of route to I-290. I-395 exit numbers run from 1-7 and I-290's from 0 to 20.
I would hope not for I-395 - the road is longer and that would mean the numbers wouldn't be changing!
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roadman

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #394 on: November 19, 2019, 01:42:12 PM »


Are you saying for them to continue CT's numbering up to the change to I-290 in Auburn?

Per Section 2E.31 of the 2009 MUTCD, that's actually what's supposed to happen with Interstate loops and spurs

Standard:

(paragraphs 01 to 14 clipped for brevity)

15  If a circumferential, loop, or spur route crosses State boundaries, the numbering
sequence shall be coordinated by the States to provide continuous interchange numbering.

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #395 on: November 19, 2019, 01:49:50 PM »

15  If a circumferential, loop, or spur route crosses State boundaries, the numbering
sequence shall be coordinated by the States to provide continuous interchange numbering.


I-395 is none of those. It's a medium-distance connector similar to I-155 in Illinois and I-135 in Kansas.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #396 on: November 19, 2019, 02:10:02 PM »

15  If a circumferential, loop, or spur route crosses State boundaries, the numbering
sequence shall be coordinated by the States to provide continuous interchange numbering.


I-395 is none of those. It's a medium-distance connector similar to I-155 in Illinois and I-135 in Kansas.

It's still a spur of I-95 though.  However, despite the current MUTCD standard, the mileposts should reset to zero at the MA border.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #397 on: November 19, 2019, 04:24:30 PM »

Massachusetts House Bill H.3078

Bold emphasis added to the below:
Quote from: H.3078 Excerpt
The exit numbers along all interstate highways within Massachusetts shall be converted to a mileage-based system. The plan will include the following provisions:

(a) As closely as practicable, follow the Federal Highway Administration mileage-based exit numbering system

(b) Follow the convention that the numbering shall start at the southernmost or westernmost terminus of the interstate highway

Based on the above, the conversion (for now) will only be applied to Interstates.  Doing so will keep such a conversion out of Cape Cod.  Maybe doing the Interstates first then other highways later should've been the approach in the first place IMHO.

. The current MassDOT plan is for most freeways, not just Interstates.
Prior to seeing the above-H.3078 text; I would've thought such as well. 

Granted, capitalization does make a difference here (and, yes I didn't initially catch it); but would state highways that don't cross state lines that have numbered interchanges (like MA 128 for example from Peabody to Gloucester) undergo the change?

That said, the H.3078 text, as written, can be subject to misinterpretation.

Given the backlash over US 6's interchange number changes along the Mid-Cape Highway several years ago; maybe that H.3078 text should've used Interstate rather than interstate.
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J N Winkler

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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #398 on: November 19, 2019, 04:35:42 PM »

Granted, capitalization does make a difference here (and, yes I didn't initially catch it); but would state highways that don't cross state lines that have numbered interchanges (like MA 128 for example from Peabody to Gloucester) undergo the change?

That said, the H.3078 text, as written, can be subject to misinterpretation.

Given the backlash over US 6's interchange number changes along the Mid-Cape Highway several years ago; maybe that H.3078 text should've used Interstate rather than interstate.

I haven't dived into the bill language, but I think there is definitely some ambiguity here since I strongly suspect Interstate Highway has been decapitalized in accordance with bill drafting convention (for example, in Kansas the head of KDOT is described in statute as "the secretary of the department of transportation").  I wonder if interpretation would hinge on something else in statute that specifies that the term interstate highway (no caps) is confined to facilities comprising part of the Interstate highway system.
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Re: Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract
« Reply #399 on: November 19, 2019, 04:37:48 PM »

Fingers crossed that the state finally kills off 128 from Canton to Peabody so we don't have exits starting in the 30's in Peabody.
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