Most Worthless Control Cities

[jbnv]

Even in my own state of Georgia, I think the ideal control cities for I-75 south of Macon are cities ... such as Tallahassee FL, Jacksonville FL.

Dude.

[Chrysler375Freeway]

I'm surprised that no one is complaining about Ohio using Atlanta and Tampa on distance signs between Toledo and Bowling Green.

They're using Lexington too.

Lexington makes some sense. It's only 100 miles or so south of Cincinnati. I actually like it though I never realized that Cincinnati and Atlanta were as far apart as they are.

Dayton is also on there, and it's far closer. However, for northbound, if they go with Atlanta and Tampa southbound, I'm surprised they didn't just put Flint, Saginaw and Detroit on northbound distance signs and after that call it a day (after the northbound signs) after using Atlanta and Tampa southbound.

[Chrysler375Freeway]

I'm surprised that no one is complaining about Ohio using Atlanta and Tampa on distance signs between Toledo and Bowling Green.

They're using Lexington too.

Those are just novelties. I've read news stories on those (the links probably have been shared here before).

On Interstate 65 near Bowling Green, the distance sign shows Scottsville, even though you have to exit off at exits 6, 20, 22, 26 or 38 and use at least one other highway (two highways if you exit off at 20 or 26) to get there.

[Flint1979]

I'm surprised that no one is complaining about Ohio using Atlanta and Tampa on distance signs between Toledo and Bowling Green.

They're using Lexington too.

Lexington makes some sense. It's only 100 miles or so south of Cincinnati. I actually like it though I never realized that Cincinnati and Atlanta were as far apart as they are.

Dayton is also on there, and it's far closer. However, for northbound, if they go with Atlanta and Tampa southbound, I'm surprised they didn't just put Flint, Saginaw and Detroit on northbound distance signs and after that call it a day (after the northbound signs) after using Atlanta and Tampa southbound.

I know for one they use Rossford which is a Toledo suburb and Toledo.

[TXtoNJ]

And as usual, the people saying "Limon" likely haven't driven through that area regularly.

That's the point. Anybody heading east of Denver on I-70 (and every highway on the east side of Denver Metro--I-270, I-225, E-470--points to Limon) is not going TO Limon. Cross-country travelers are going toward Salina, Wichita, Topeka, KC or points east. Why not just say "I-70 East--Kansas City" or at least Topeka? And westbound I-70 in Kansas, why not have Denver (or even Denver/Colorado Springs due to US 24) as the control city(ies)?

I mean, I get that it's an important highway junction--but it was probably more important before the advent of I-70, since it was the crossroads of three fairly important US routes. And I also get that there is nothing else east of Denver or west of (I guess) Salina. But nobody is going to point to Limon as a major stopping point or destination.

No offense to any Limonians on this thread...

Eastbound from CS and Pueblo are going to take you through Limon to get to I-70. There is a considerable amount of southeast-bound truck traffic that diverts at Limon to avoid Raton Pass.

Control cities don't exist to list "important places" - they're to aid navigation, particularly for logistics purposes. Limon is small, but it is very important for navigation in Eastern Colorado if you're not taking I-70 to Denver, especially since there are few other landmarks on the High Plains.

What kind of logistics are we referring to? Truck drivers should have a pre-planned route and not be depending on control city signage as opposed to route signage.

People navigate to a large extent by landmarks. You want multiple levels of navigation reinforcement - that's why we have road names (often after prominent points), road numbers, exit numbers, and control cities. If you've spent a considerable amount of time driving across the High Plains, you'll know that there is literally nothing out there other than flat grasslands, and the occasional stream with short, shrubby trees.

Since you can't rely on a natural landmark to assist with navigation, a control city becomes far more important than in a more densely populated area. Reminding truck drivers that Limon is important, and coming up soon, is very helpful, since missing it (and we are all human, it happens sometimes) could lead to overshooting the exit by 30 miles or more.

Dictating policy by "oughts" is a sure-fire way to engineer failure.

[bing101]

But anyway, I-75 has none of those cities as control cities and those are not ideal control cities for I-75. From Sault Ste. Marie to Miami the control cities are/should be in this order:
St. Ignace at the International Bridge, then Mackinac Bridge takes over, then after that Saginaw, Flint, Detroit, Toledo, Dayton, Cincinnati, Lexington, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Macon, Tifton, Valdosta, Lake City, Gainesville, Ocala, Tampa, Naples, Miami. Why would you use Albany, Tallahassee and Jacksonville when I-75 takes you to none of those cities?

Georgia doesn't even use Tifton as a control city, so I have no idea why you would want to add it. Albany is certainly more important despite not being on the route.

Where did I say that they do use Tifton? And how exactly is Albany a better control city on I-75 than Tifton? I-75 actually goes through Tifton, it does not go through or even lead you to Albany. You are telling me you have no idea why I would want to add a city that is actually on the Interstate when you suggest that a city that is 40 miles west of it should be a control city?

Why are you suggesting control cities that aren't even on the route? Like you suggest the other day that Virginia should use Richmond and Washington on I-81 and then suggested that Wichita be added as a control city on I-70.

You sidestepped the question. You acknowledge that Georgia doesn't use Tifton, and you suggest that Tifton should be used, so the clearly implied question is *why*? Is the existing usage of Macon and Valdosta not good enough for you?

What do you mean good enough for me? What's wrong with using Tifton as a control city? You want to use Albany which isn't even on the route. Why would you use a control city that isn't on the route? What sense does that make?

Well I-5 has the control city for San Francisco even though it never touches the city.  Mainly it's a reference that to reach San Francisco you either have to exit at I-580 west from the northbound direction of I-5 in the Tracy area or exit at US-50 west , I-80 West or I-505 south if you are in the Sacramento Valley area trying to reach the Bay Area.
Likewise Los Angeles gets used as a control city for I-40 west and I-15 south it's used as a reference to get to I-10, or CA-60 west or CA-210 west to get to Los Angeles.

[roadman65]

A big question is why Florida chooses Naples over Fort Myers on I-75 south of Tampa. Yes I-75 turns from N-S to E-W there, but US 41 ( the route I-75 replaced) has always used Fort Myers south of Tampa and Miami south of Fort Myers on mileage signs.

IMO, it should have been copied over, though it doesn't bother me enough to lose sleep over, but FDOT made a sort of bad call there.

[mrsman]

But anyway, I-75 has none of those cities as control cities and those are not ideal control cities for I-75. From Sault Ste. Marie to Miami the control cities are/should be in this order:
St. Ignace at the International Bridge, then Mackinac Bridge takes over, then after that Saginaw, Flint, Detroit, Toledo, Dayton, Cincinnati, Lexington, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Macon, Tifton, Valdosta, Lake City, Gainesville, Ocala, Tampa, Naples, Miami. Why would you use Albany, Tallahassee and Jacksonville when I-75 takes you to none of those cities?

Georgia doesn't even use Tifton as a control city, so I have no idea why you would want to add it. Albany is certainly more important despite not being on the route.

Where did I say that they do use Tifton? And how exactly is Albany a better control city on I-75 than Tifton? I-75 actually goes through Tifton, it does not go through or even lead you to Albany. You are telling me you have no idea why I would want to add a city that is actually on the Interstate when you suggest that a city that is 40 miles west of it should be a control city?

Why are you suggesting control cities that aren't even on the route? Like you suggest the other day that Virginia should use Richmond and Washington on I-81 and then suggested that Wichita be added as a control city on I-70.

You sidestepped the question. You acknowledge that Georgia doesn't use Tifton, and you suggest that Tifton should be used, so the clearly implied question is *why*? Is the existing usage of Macon and Valdosta not good enough for you?

What do you mean good enough for me? What's wrong with using Tifton as a control city? You want to use Albany which isn't even on the route. Why would you use a control city that isn't on the route? What sense does that make?

Well I-5 has the control city for San Francisco even though it never touches the city.  Mainly it's a reference that to reach San Francisco you either have to exit at I-580 west from the northbound direction of I-5 in the Tracy area or exit at US-50 west , I-80 West or I-505 south if you are in the Sacramento Valley area trying to reach the Bay Area.
Likewise Los Angeles gets used as a control city for I-40 west and I-15 south it's used as a reference to get to I-10, or CA-60 west or CA-210 west to get to Los Angeles.

Is the control on I-5 San Francisco between I-580 and I-505?  I don't remember seeing it in that area.  But you are correct that SF is an appropriate control for I-5 for most of CA even though it doesn't go there.  In many ways, 580 and 505 follow a direct line and isn't much of a directional turn.

I-40 and I-15 also are appropriate for L.A. controls, given their historic antecedents that did go to L.A. (particularly US 66).  In AZ and NV L.A. is used as the control, but in CA, oddly it changes to the less known Barstow on I-40 and San Bernardino on I-15.  This is a very bad move, since L.A. should be the control until you hit I-10

[Flint1979]

But anyway, I-75 has none of those cities as control cities and those are not ideal control cities for I-75. From Sault Ste. Marie to Miami the control cities are/should be in this order:
St. Ignace at the International Bridge, then Mackinac Bridge takes over, then after that Saginaw, Flint, Detroit, Toledo, Dayton, Cincinnati, Lexington, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Macon, Tifton, Valdosta, Lake City, Gainesville, Ocala, Tampa, Naples, Miami. Why would you use Albany, Tallahassee and Jacksonville when I-75 takes you to none of those cities?

Georgia doesn't even use Tifton as a control city, so I have no idea why you would want to add it. Albany is certainly more important despite not being on the route.

Where did I say that they do use Tifton? And how exactly is Albany a better control city on I-75 than Tifton? I-75 actually goes through Tifton, it does not go through or even lead you to Albany. You are telling me you have no idea why I would want to add a city that is actually on the Interstate when you suggest that a city that is 40 miles west of it should be a control city?

Why are you suggesting control cities that aren't even on the route? Like you suggest the other day that Virginia should use Richmond and Washington on I-81 and then suggested that Wichita be added as a control city on I-70.

You sidestepped the question. You acknowledge that Georgia doesn't use Tifton, and you suggest that Tifton should be used, so the clearly implied question is *why*? Is the existing usage of Macon and Valdosta not good enough for you?

What do you mean good enough for me? What's wrong with using Tifton as a control city? You want to use Albany which isn't even on the route. Why would you use a control city that isn't on the route? What sense does that make?

Well I-5 has the control city for San Francisco even though it never touches the city.  Mainly it's a reference that to reach San Francisco you either have to exit at I-580 west from the northbound direction of I-5 in the Tracy area or exit at US-50 west , I-80 West or I-505 south if you are in the Sacramento Valley area trying to reach the Bay Area.
Likewise Los Angeles gets used as a control city for I-40 west and I-15 south it's used as a reference to get to I-10, or CA-60 west or CA-210 west to get to Los Angeles.

Yeah but the difference really is that there are other Interstate's you can use to get to San Francisco. Albany, GA doesn't have Interstate access and I-75 doesn't go there, also San Francisco is a major city one of the largest cities in the country, Albany isn't even close to that.

[hotdogPi]

Albany is also potentially ambiguous – I-75 gets a lot of people from outside the area. If someone from Michigan sees Albany and isn't aware there's one in Georgia, they're going to be confused.

That said, I don't think you need Interstate or even freeway access. Quincy would be an appropriate control for I-72 even if I-172 didn't exist and there was only a surface road, and the same is true for Evansville and I-64 and I-164/I-69.

[Flint1979]

Albany is also potentially ambiguous – I-75 gets a lot of people from outside the area. If someone from Michigan sees Albany and isn't aware there's one in Georgia, they're going to be confused.

That said, I don't think you need Interstate or even freeway access. Quincy would be an appropriate control for I-72 even if I-172 didn't exist and there was only a surface road, and the same is true for Evansville and I-64 and I-164/I-69.

Honestly I think I would because I am familiar with I-75 and I'd see Albany and think where the heck is that at? If I saw say Tifton or Valdosta I'd know I was on the right route going in the right direction. I don't like control cities that are miles off of the Interstate that they are the control city on.

It'd be kind of like using Midland, MI on I-75. It doesn't go through Midland but you can access Midland via US-10.

One example in Michigan which I think is good is on US-127 as far south as Mount Pleasant the control city is Mackinac Bridge, usually spelled "Mackinac Br" due to there not being enough room to spell the word Bridge. Honestly though even though Mackinac Bridge is a good enough control city if they used Upper Peninsula as a control city it would be fine too.

[Flint1979]

Also come to mind is that the largest city on I-75 between Saginaw and the Mackinac Bridge is Bay City and that is only used once for a control city at exit 154. Gaylord could probably be an ok control city but Mackinac Bridge really gives you an idea of where you are going for sure.

[ran4sh]

Albany is also potentially ambiguous – I-75 gets a lot of people from outside the area. If someone from Michigan sees Albany and isn't aware there's one in Georgia, they're going to be confused.

That said, I don't think you need Interstate or even freeway access. Quincy would be an appropriate control for I-72 even if I-172 didn't exist and there was only a surface road, and the same is true for Evansville and I-64 and I-164/I-69.

If control cities have to be nationally known cities then (1) that means you support not using Limon on I-70 in CO as was discussed earlier, and (2) for I-75 in GA you still wouldn't use Tifton or Valdosta, arguably you would use Atlanta and Tampa FL.

[hotdogPi]

Albany is also potentially ambiguous – I-75 gets a lot of people from outside the area. If someone from Michigan sees Albany and isn't aware there's one in Georgia, they're going to be confused.

That said, I don't think you need Interstate or even freeway access. Quincy would be an appropriate control for I-72 even if I-172 didn't exist and there was only a surface road, and the same is true for Evansville and I-64 and I-164/I-69.

If control cities have to be nationally known cities then (1) that means you support not using Limon on I-70 in CO as was discussed earlier, and (2) for I-75 in GA you still wouldn't use Tifton or Valdosta, arguably you would use Atlanta and Tampa FL.

I don't support Limon or Tifton, but Valdosta is fine. (I never said anything to the contrary.) However, none of these three cities share a name with a very well-known city in the United States.

[Flint1979]

Albany is also potentially ambiguous – I-75 gets a lot of people from outside the area. If someone from Michigan sees Albany and isn't aware there's one in Georgia, they're going to be confused.

That said, I don't think you need Interstate or even freeway access. Quincy would be an appropriate control for I-72 even if I-172 didn't exist and there was only a surface road, and the same is true for Evansville and I-64 and I-164/I-69.

If control cities have to be nationally known cities then (1) that means you support not using Limon on I-70 in CO as was discussed earlier, and (2) for I-75 in GA you still wouldn't use Tifton or Valdosta, arguably you would use Atlanta and Tampa FL.

I don't support Limon or Tifton, but Valdosta is fine. (I never said anything to the contrary.) However, none of these three cities share a name with a very well-known city in the United States.

I do. Limon is fine because it's the only city in an otherwise sparsely populated area. Outside of the Denver suburban counties that border the county it's in almost all of the counties surrounding it have less than 10,000 people and the counties are about 2,500 square miles around there just showing how sparsely populated it is there. Tifton is fine too but it isn't used, Tifton has a medical center, museums, an university and is big enough for control city status.

[Flint1979]

Albany is also potentially ambiguous – I-75 gets a lot of people from outside the area. If someone from Michigan sees Albany and isn't aware there's one in Georgia, they're going to be confused.

That said, I don't think you need Interstate or even freeway access. Quincy would be an appropriate control for I-72 even if I-172 didn't exist and there was only a surface road, and the same is true for Evansville and I-64 and I-164/I-69.

If control cities have to be nationally known cities then (1) that means you support not using Limon on I-70 in CO as was discussed earlier, and (2) for I-75 in GA you still wouldn't use Tifton or Valdosta, arguably you would use Atlanta and Tampa FL.

Control cities don't have to be nationally known cities. A control city is just a city in a series of cities along a corridor. All control cities do is aid the motorist traveling along that route. Which is why Albany shouldn't be used on I-75 in Georgia and it isn't but you can use Albany as a control city for a route that spurs off I-75 and goes to Albany.

[SkyPesos]

Albany is also potentially ambiguous – I-75 gets a lot of people from outside the area. If someone from Michigan sees Albany and isn't aware there's one in Georgia, they're going to be confused.

I think this is a big one for control city choice. It's a reason why I-44 WB in St Louis uses Tulsa instead of Springfield as a control, because it can get confused with Springfield, IL in the opposite direction (and US 66 used to go through both).

[ran4sh]

The reality is, the Interstate system was built based on what the major cities were in the 1950s. We shouldn't continue to act like all the cities off the Interstate system are non-major and the ones on the route should be the only control cities. If you look at, for example, media markets, Albany GA is important enough to have a media market while Valdosta and Tifton do not.

[ran4sh]

Albany is also potentially ambiguous – I-75 gets a lot of people from outside the area. If someone from Michigan sees Albany and isn't aware there's one in Georgia, they're going to be confused.

That said, I don't think you need Interstate or even freeway access. Quincy would be an appropriate control for I-72 even if I-172 didn't exist and there was only a surface road, and the same is true for Evansville and I-64 and I-164/I-69.

If control cities have to be nationally known cities then (1) that means you support not using Limon on I-70 in CO as was discussed earlier, and (2) for I-75 in GA you still wouldn't use Tifton or Valdosta, arguably you would use Atlanta and Tampa FL.

I don't support Limon or Tifton, but Valdosta is fine. (I never said anything to the contrary.) However, none of these three cities share a name with a very well-known city in the United States.

Is Albany NY really a very well known city? It doesn't have professional sports or anything of similar magnitude in other industries, it just happens to be the state capital of the state that contains the largest city in the country.

[ran4sh]

Albany is also potentially ambiguous – I-75 gets a lot of people from outside the area. If someone from Michigan sees Albany and isn't aware there's one in Georgia, they're going to be confused.

I think this is a big one for control city choice. It's a reason why I-44 WB in St Louis uses Tulsa instead of Springfield as a control, because it can get confused with Springfield, IL in the opposite direction (and US 66 used to go through both).

Most states get around the confusion issue by including the state if it could be ambiguous, such as Jackson TN for I-40 east from Memphis (never mind that I think it should just be Nashville).

[SkyPesos]

Is Albany NY really a very well known city? It doesn't have professional sports or anything of similar magnitude in other industries, it just happens to be the state capital of the state that contains the largest city in the country.

Yes, I learned all my state capitals in elementary school, way before the first time I heard of Albany, GA, which was when I saw a sign for it en route to Disney World.

[hotdogPi]

The reality is, the Interstate system was built based on what the major cities were in the 1950s. We shouldn't continue to act like all the cities off the Interstate system are non-major and the ones on the route should be the only control cities. If you look at, for example, media markets, Albany GA is important enough to have a media market while Valdosta and Tifton do not.

That's what exit destination signs are for. There would be a sign for Albany at US 82 going north and GA 300 going south.

[ran4sh]

The reality is, the Interstate system was built based on what the major cities were in the 1950s. We shouldn't continue to act like all the cities off the Interstate system are non-major and the ones on the route should be the only control cities. If you look at, for example, media markets, Albany GA is important enough to have a media market while Valdosta and Tifton do not.

That's what exit destination signs are for. There would be a sign for Albany at US 82 going north and GA 300 going south.

It would also be useful to have the mileage/distance to cities like Albany as you approach the exit for it on I-75. That's one of the examples of my previous post where some people only think of the directional signage but I also consider the most useful cities to include for the mileage signage.

[Flint1979]

Albany is also potentially ambiguous – I-75 gets a lot of people from outside the area. If someone from Michigan sees Albany and isn't aware there's one in Georgia, they're going to be confused.

I think this is a big one for control city choice. It's a reason why I-44 WB in St Louis uses Tulsa instead of Springfield as a control, because it can get confused with Springfield, IL in the opposite direction (and US 66 used to go through both).

Right that one would confuse a lot of people unless you put Springfield, MO and Springfield, IL on the signs and even then I can see confusion.

[Flint1979]

Albany is also potentially ambiguous – I-75 gets a lot of people from outside the area. If someone from Michigan sees Albany and isn't aware there's one in Georgia, they're going to be confused.

That said, I don't think you need Interstate or even freeway access. Quincy would be an appropriate control for I-72 even if I-172 didn't exist and there was only a surface road, and the same is true for Evansville and I-64 and I-164/I-69.

If control cities have to be nationally known cities then (1) that means you support not using Limon on I-70 in CO as was discussed earlier, and (2) for I-75 in GA you still wouldn't use Tifton or Valdosta, arguably you would use Atlanta and Tampa FL.

I don't support Limon or Tifton, but Valdosta is fine. (I never said anything to the contrary.) However, none of these three cities share a name with a very well-known city in the United States.

Is Albany NY really a very well known city? It doesn't have professional sports or anything of similar magnitude in other industries, it just happens to be the state capital of the state that contains the largest city in the country.

Yes Albany, NY is really a very well known city. It's the state capital and doesn't need sports teams or stuff like that. When you are traveling along I-75 and you see a sign that says Albany and you never get to Albany via I-75 what sense does it make to have Albany as a control city then? You don't have to support Tifton and it isn't used but Tifton at least has a medical center and university and some museums.