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Author Topic: Illinois Tollway Notes  (Read 118420 times)

Rick Powell

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #925 on: April 04, 2019, 07:45:17 PM »

The Prairie Parkway funding actually got stuff built, though it wasn't what was originally envisioned. US 34 connecting Plano, Yorkville and Oswego with a brand-new 4-lane roadway used Prairie Parkway's National Corridor funding, as did the 12 mile add lanes of IL 47 between Morris and Yorkville. And there's about 250 acres of land that was bought that nothing got built on; it is mostly farmland that is currently rented out by the state. The remainder of the funding will be used to partly fund the new I-88/IL 47 interchange and a few miles of new IL 47 four-lane in Sugar Grove. 
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edwaleni

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #926 on: April 04, 2019, 10:47:21 PM »

Absolutely correct. IDOT could budget tighter, but Politics to align the varied interests around the state has to happen, and should happen imho

I still call the recently added Carterville Interchange on IL 13 the “bridge to nowhere”

The SPUI and DDI at the Marion I-57 Interchanges are nice, but are both fully necessary, on consecutive interchanges?
 
Are you referring to BLV and MWA or is the 2 airport pair MWA and MDH? BLV does have Allegiant flights. MWA has Cape Air flights on 8 seater turbo props to puddle jump to STL-Lambert Field. In any event, probably a bit of pork in the passenger terminals at both. MDH functions as part of the Aviation school @ SIU - not sure if that is more IL Dept of Education or IDOT...maybe both

Not to mention the Billions spent on upgrading the Rail Route from Chicago to St Louis so passenger trains can up their speeds to a whooping 110 mph...

One thing I have learned, now living in Southern IL, is there is a wide belief that taxes collected here subsidize Chicago...Even tho it simply is not true, when the numbers on receipts vs expenditures from Springfield...Chicagoland subsidizes Downstate

Not BLV up in Belleville. Even though that airport has been much maligned, it actually is doing very well now. Per the FAA, they are up 320,000 people going through that little 2 gate airport now.

Yes, I was talking about MWA and MDH.

The SIU airport does take commercial, but typically charters for sports teams coming and going.  With its 8500 foot runway, it can take anything up to a 757. It is "state" money, but it is funded through the university system.

Veterans is strategic and they built a 10,000 foot runway so it can take jumbos except certain 747 and 777 models and the A340/A330. At the moment only those twin props to STL use it.

I have flown in and out of BLV many, many times and the flights always has people from coal alley on it. They would rather drive to Belleville, then hop through Lambert. Now that BLV is charging to park there, there might be a damper around the corner.

As for Carterville, I assume you are talking about the Wolf Creek Road exit ramps when the rest of IL-13 have 4 lane traffic lights.

The last IDOT planning session I listened to, IDOT said that any future limited access highway will be built to interstate standards going forward. So I assume that when they funded the exit, that they have future plans to make IL-13 limited access the entire way from Murphysboro to Harrisburg.

As for who subsidizes who in Illinois, I believe I read that in the mid to late 1970's is when net income from outside Chicago fell below than Chicago proper.  The decline of oil and coal in southern Illinois had a great deal to do with that. But with Chicago and Illinois shrinking in net population, and home values declining statewide, that trend will definitely keep heading downward until there is budget reform statewide.

I did read in a local paper in southern Illinois that they are against an increase in the gas tax.  Well, based on the way they presented it, i would be against it to. They declared that Illinois would have to raise the gas tax to 44 cents per gallon to meet all current "needs". This is hogwash.  The biggest complainers were border towns who say residents will simply cross the border to buy. If you raise to 44 cents, I agree.  It doesn't have to be 1 big gulp. They can raise it in much smaller increments to fund projects statewide without breaking the bank and keeping border towns alive. Who comes up with this stuff anyway?
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inkyatari

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #927 on: April 05, 2019, 09:01:52 AM »

The Prairie Parkway funding actually got stuff built, though it wasn't what was originally envisioned. US 34 connecting Plano, Yorkville and Oswego with a brand-new 4-lane roadway used Prairie Parkway's National Corridor funding, as did the 12 mile add lanes of IL 47 between Morris and Yorkville. And there's about 250 acres of land that was bought that nothing got built on; it is mostly farmland that is currently rented out by the state. The remainder of the funding will be used to partly fund the new I-88/IL 47 interchange and a few miles of new IL 47 four-lane in Sugar Grove.

And from what it looks like, the IL 47 from Morris to Caton Farm Rd. looks like it will be finished this summer.

I love the wide shoulders.  I've wanted to ride my bicycle from Morris to Yorkville on a more direct route, and as soon as they ce get the 4 miles from Caton Farm to ILL71 done, it will be reality.
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kphoger

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #928 on: April 05, 2019, 12:40:42 PM »

residents will simply cross the border to buy. If you raise to 44 cents, I agree.  It doesn't have to be 1 big gulp. They can raise it in much smaller increments to fund projects statewide without breaking the bank and keeping border towns alive.

I once hitched a ride up I-57 out of Tuscola from a man who told me he always drives all the way from Kentucky to the Indiana state line east of Chicago without filling up with gas—just to avoid the higher gas taxes in Illinois.
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Brandon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #929 on: April 05, 2019, 01:45:57 PM »

The last IDOT planning session I listened to, IDOT said that any future limited access highway will be built to interstate standards going forward. So I assume that when they funded the exit, that they have future plans to make IL-13 limited access the entire way from Murphysboro to Harrisburg.

Absolutely unnecessary to have every limited access road at interstate standards.  No wonder IDOT can't get anything done.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #930 on: April 05, 2019, 01:51:40 PM »

The last IDOT planning session I listened to, IDOT said that any future limited access highway will be built to interstate standards going forward. So I assume that when they funded the exit, that they have future plans to make IL-13 limited access the entire way from Murphysboro to Harrisburg.

Absolutely unnecessary to have every limited access road at interstate standards.  No wonder IDOT can't get anything done.
No way IDOT tries to upgrade current IL 13 from Harrisburg to Murphysboro, at least on it's current route, thru town in Marion and Carbondale...The viaduct at the Canadian National tracks in downtown C-dale would be an eyesore.

And unless I'm missing something, IDOT doesn't have land for Marion and Carbondale bypasses

I guess it could happen...in theory...
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Rick Powell

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #931 on: April 05, 2019, 04:37:37 PM »

I love the wide shoulders.  I've wanted to ride my bicycle from Morris to Yorkville on a more direct route, and as soon as they get the 4 miles from Caton Farm to ILL 71 done, it will be reality.

The wide shoulders were built to pavement design standards and full 12-foot width. If there is ever a need to widen to 6-lanes with a curbed section (in the way distant future, if ever) all they need to do is slap outer curbs on it. The section of IL 47 from Caton Farm to 71 has been federally approved through the planning process, but no money to build it yet.
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Brandon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #932 on: April 05, 2019, 04:51:04 PM »

I love the wide shoulders.  I've wanted to ride my bicycle from Morris to Yorkville on a more direct route, and as soon as they get the 4 miles from Caton Farm to ILL 71 done, it will be reality.

The wide shoulders were built to pavement design standards and full 12-foot width. If there is ever a need to widen to 6-lanes with a curbed section (in the way distant future, if ever) all they need to do is slap outer curbs on it. The section of IL 47 from Caton Farm to 71 has been federally approved through the planning process, but no money to build it yet.

Which means you have a "Suicide 6" situation.  IL-47 will shrink from four-lane divided to two-lanes (crappy ones at that) to five-lanes (center turn lane) just north of IL-71.  It all should've been done at once instead of piecemeal.
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edwaleni

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #933 on: April 05, 2019, 07:53:54 PM »

The last IDOT planning session I listened to, IDOT said that any future limited access highway will be built to interstate standards going forward. So I assume that when they funded the exit, that they have future plans to make IL-13 limited access the entire way from Murphysboro to Harrisburg.

Absolutely unnecessary to have every limited access road at interstate standards.  No wonder IDOT can't get anything done.

As I heard it, they told the House Transportation committee that when they design limited access to FHWA interstate standards, it improves their chances for federal reimbursement for the route.

I heard this once before awhile back, I think when there was a hearing on US-67 and the bypasses of Jerseyville and Rushville. Someone asked why it was a 4 lane limited access. I am pretty sure that they said it ends up being cheaper to build because of the larger reimbursement rate. Now, I don't want to say chase pennies with nickels, but IDOT has to maintain that road for 30 years after it is built. Twice as many lanes over 30 years can get expensive from a maintenance perspective.

It might explain why IDOT Maintenance fund eats up a large majority of their annual budget. Just saying.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #934 on: April 05, 2019, 08:00:59 PM »

It all should've been done at once instead of piecemeal.
Ideally, yes, but it would’ve been an over-$150 million project and tough to find that much money all at once. There were also some quirks with the Prairie Parkway funding where the feds originally prohibited the use of the money for IL 47, then reversed the decision, and by that time the section thru Yorkville (a project that had been planned more than a decade earlier) was already underway. When I was at District 3, we had construction programs of $60 or $70 million for the *entire 9 counties* in the leaner years. If it weren’t for the Illinois Jobs Now capital program and the Prairie Parkway earmarks, neither section may have been built.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 08:07:27 PM by Rick Powell »
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Rick Powell

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #935 on: April 06, 2019, 10:45:18 AM »

As far as the “limited access” funding, the only “higher reimbursement rate” I am aware of is the 90% match for projects on the legacy Interstate system vs. the 80% match for most everything else, including newly-designated Interstates. As such, a new highway, even if it got an “I” designation, would not be eligible for the 90% rate. The only difference is that an Interstate designated highway would be eligible for Interstate or NHS funds while a non-Interstate, whether 2 or 4 lanes, would not be eligible for Interstate funds and would also not be eligible for NHS funds unless the Route was designated as such (Interstates are automatically eligible, as well as other NHS-designated routes). BUT would still be eligible for other federal funding and grants like STP and BUILD. So there is no particular financial advantage in building a 4 lane highway where a 2 lane would do, that I am aware of, other than the flexibility offered to Interstate marked routes.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 10:52:29 AM by Rick Powell »
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Revive 755

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #936 on: April 07, 2019, 09:14:44 PM »

Really the new I-70 alignment in E St Louis between the I-55 thru/I-64/I-70 bump interchange and the Stan Musian Bridge is about the only new IDOT Freeway in a while...[/url]

IL 255 between I-270 and US 67 doesn't count?

There's also US 67's freeway bypass of Jacksonville from I-72 to IL 104.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 09:19:13 PM by Revive 755 »
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Great Lakes Roads

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #937 on: June 04, 2019, 06:41:45 PM »

Here are some of the aminated videos of the ramp movements at the I-290/I-88 interchange with I-294.

I-294 Northbound to I-290 Westbound:

I-290 Eastbound to I-294 Southbound:

I-294 Southbound to I-88 Westbound:

I-294 Northbound to I-290 Westbound and I-294 SB to I-88 WB:

I-290 Westbound at St. Charles Road:
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ilpt4u

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #938 on: June 04, 2019, 07:10:55 PM »

The 294 South to 290 East/88 West BGS in the Videos really points out that I-290 should be killed and that the 88 Designation should replace on the Eisenhower.

The BGS looks silly...290 East 88 West with Chicago Aurora stacked vertically as Controls. The Gore Point Shields on the Ramp is even goofier...I-290 East *Left Arrow*/I-88 West *Right Arrow*

Should be a single 88 shield. The designation change has made sense since 355 and 88 were designated, and those new BGS designs beg for it

The 294 North BGS does show Milwaukee being utilized as a Control - as opposed to Wisconsin, which I believe IDOT and ISTHA doubled down on at the O’Hare/90/190/294 Interchange

Overall, the Interchange Design Improvements should help Traffic Flow at least on the Tri-State...How much it can help the I-290/I-88 Con/Divergence remains to be seen. Should be safer too, as it cuts out a lot of the weaving in the current C/D lanes

I think mostly unintentionally, the early St Charles Road Ramp, in effect, gives a 3rd Thru Lane for I-290 West, taking the St Charles Road/I-294 North exit and weaving to the Thru I-290 lanes on the new C/D road. It is not signed for 290 Thru Traffic, but its similar to the I-88/I-290 East Hillside Strangler “Fix” from an earlier time, giving another I-290 Thru Lane with an early exit for Mannheim Road - but that is signed for Thru Traffic (and All Trucks)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 07:35:37 PM by ilpt4u »
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3467

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #939 on: June 04, 2019, 08:16:18 PM »

I agree ...Also with 755.They also should have used 41 because the Tristate is worthy of a 2di.
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mgk920

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #940 on: June 04, 2019, 10:48:50 PM »

I agree ...Also with 755.They also should have used 41 because the Tristate is worthy of a 2di.

I've mused many times in other threads about rerouting I-94 to replace all of I-294 on the Tri-State Tollway, replacing I-94 through Chicago with an extended 'I-41'.  This also points 'I-41' in the correct direction in the correct place should it ever be further extended southwards towards Evansville, IN (and beyond).

Mike
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tribar

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #941 on: June 04, 2019, 11:25:54 PM »

I really hope they’ll be doing this whole thing with concrete pavement and not asphalt like the video suggests
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ChiMilNet

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #942 on: June 04, 2019, 11:40:55 PM »

I really hope they’ll be doing this whole thing with concrete pavement and not asphalt like the video suggests

The tollway commonly uses concrete in major rebuilds on its busiest tollways. Probably, it will be concrete mainlines with an asphalt shoulder (that's their common construction standard). Also, you can be assured that the tollway will have substantially more lighting on its maintained sections of the interchange than the video suggests. I'm also going to say that I really hope IDOT, on its maintained section, will match the LED lighting in this interchange that the tollway basically uses now as its standard construction practice and also not use the candy cane davit poles, which badly clash with their more established and tollway's truss style installations (see I-290 and IL 390 interchange as an example of where this clash is prevalent).
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ilpt4u

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #943 on: June 04, 2019, 11:48:27 PM »

Won’t both 290 and 294 both pretty much need to be reconstructed thru the parallel segment, at least around St Charles Road?

The animations show 290 widened there (plus the C/D lanes for the West/North Cloverleaf approach)

Heck, kinda shocked that St Charles Rd/290 Cloverleaf isn’t getting dumped for a SPUI or DDI or some other interchange with a smaller footprint...I figured some of that ROW would be useful for a widened 290 & 294...
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ET21

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #944 on: June 05, 2019, 09:42:18 AM »

Won’t both 290 and 294 both pretty much need to be reconstructed thru the parallel segment, at least around St Charles Road?

The animations show 290 widened there (plus the C/D lanes for the West/North Cloverleaf approach)

Heck, kinda shocked that St Charles Rd/290 Cloverleaf isn’t getting dumped for a SPUI or DDI or some other interchange with a smaller footprint...I figured some of that ROW would be useful for a widened 290 & 294...

St. Charles Road looks to be getting the same treatment as I-90/290/53. Looks like they do utilize some parts of that middle median for the new ramps. The next animations I want to see is with North Ave, 290 and 294 because that will show if 290 essentially will be rebuilt between Wolf Road and York Ave
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IL: I-88, I-180, I-190, I-290, I-294, I-355, IL-390
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SD: I-190
WI: I-90, I-94
MI: I-94, I-196
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #945 on: June 05, 2019, 07:14:24 PM »

I agree ...Also with 755.They also should have used 41 because the Tristate is worthy of a 2di.
the OLD toll us 41 is not coming back.
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #946 on: June 05, 2019, 09:22:27 PM »

The 294 South to 290 East/88 West BGS in the Videos really points out that I-290 should be killed and that the 88 Designation should replace on the Eisenhower.

The BGS looks silly...290 East 88 West with Chicago Aurora stacked vertically as Controls. The Gore Point Shields on the Ramp is even goofier...I-290 East *Left Arrow*/I-88 West *Right Arrow*

Should be a single 88 shield. The designation change has made sense since 355 and 88 were designated, and those new BGS designs beg for it

The 294 North BGS does show Milwaukee being utilized as a Control - as opposed to Wisconsin, which I believe IDOT and ISTHA doubled down on at the O’Hare/90/190/294 Interchange

Overall, the Interchange Design Improvements should help Traffic Flow at least on the Tri-State...How much it can help the I-290/I-88 Con/Divergence remains to be seen. Should be safer too, as it cuts out a lot of the weaving in the current C/D lanes

I think mostly unintentionally, the early St Charles Road Ramp, in effect, gives a 3rd Thru Lane for I-290 West, taking the St Charles Road/I-294 North exit and weaving to the Thru I-290 lanes on the new C/D road. It is not signed for 290 Thru Traffic, but its similar to the I-88/I-290 East Hillside Strangler “Fix” from an earlier time, giving another I-290 Thru Lane with an early exit for Mannheim Road - but that is signed for Thru Traffic (and All Trucks)
EB 290 really looks like there is room for 1 more lane
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paulthemapguy

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #947 on: June 05, 2019, 10:48:14 PM »

Won’t both 290 and 294 both pretty much need to be reconstructed thru the parallel segment, at least around St Charles Road?

The animations show 290 widened there (plus the C/D lanes for the West/North Cloverleaf approach)

Heck, kinda shocked that St Charles Rd/290 Cloverleaf isn’t getting dumped for a SPUI or DDI or some other interchange with a smaller footprint...I figured some of that ROW would be useful for a widened 290 & 294...

There's no point in widening 290 upstream if you can't widen it downstream (closer to the city).  All that would do is create a bottleneck.
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #948 on: June 05, 2019, 11:23:37 PM »

Won’t both 290 and 294 both pretty much need to be reconstructed thru the parallel segment, at least around St Charles Road?

The animations show 290 widened there (plus the C/D lanes for the West/North Cloverleaf approach)

Heck, kinda shocked that St Charles Rd/290 Cloverleaf isn’t getting dumped for a SPUI or DDI or some other interchange with a smaller footprint...I figured some of that ROW would be useful for a widened 290 & 294...

There's no point in widening 290 upstream if you can't widen it downstream (closer to the city).  All that would do is create a bottleneck.
maybe for better flow from IL-64 to I-294 / I-88
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #949 on: June 10, 2019, 08:58:08 AM »

Won’t both 290 and 294 both pretty much need to be reconstructed thru the parallel segment, at least around St Charles Road?

The animations show 290 widened there (plus the C/D lanes for the West/North Cloverleaf approach)

Heck, kinda shocked that St Charles Rd/290 Cloverleaf isn’t getting dumped for a SPUI or DDI or some other interchange with a smaller footprint...I figured some of that ROW would be useful for a widened 290 & 294...

There's no point in widening 290 upstream if you can't widen it downstream (closer to the city).  All that would do is create a bottleneck.
maybe for better flow from IL-64 to I-294 / I-88

That's all it'll be for. I-290 rarely backs up in that small segment between I-294 southbound ramp and Wolf Road. if anything, they'll rebuild the roadway but leave the same amount of lanes eastbound
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Clinched:
IL: I-88, I-180, I-190, I-290, I-294, I-355, IL-390
IN: I-80, I-94
SD: I-190
WI: I-90, I-94
MI: I-94, I-196
MN: I-90

 


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