The (ir)rational hatred of school busses

[Rothman]

Red-green colorblind people can't get driver's licenses in Mass?

See the previous post, but keep in mind that red-green colorblindness does not necessarily mean that a person cannot distinguish between red and green.

For example:  Yours truly.  Although my colorblindness is categorized as red-green, it's really matter of me not seeing red as intensely as others with normal vision do.  So, I have a much harder time seeing the red tone in purple, making a lot of shades of purple look just blue to me.  The red and green on traffic lights are two colors I have no problem distinguishing between whatsoever.  They're quite distinct to my eyes.

There are a few shades of red and green that I confuse, but it always takes me by surprise when that happens since it's so rare.

[vdeane]

MisterSG1: New York's licensing standards are clearly WAY behind Ontario's.  Our road test consists of making one trip abound the block in a subdivision like this one and managing to not break any laws or hit anything.  The only skills tested are 3 point turns and parallel parking (behind a car, not between two).  No freeways, no arterials, and no hills (at least where I took it, in the subdivision I linked to).  The written test is a complete joke; just 20 very easy (I wouldn't be surprised if "does one drive on the right or left side of the road" is in the question bank!) multiple choice questions (heck, one question even contained the answer to the adjacent question when I took it!) that aren't necessarily kept up to date, at least not on matters of interacting with bikes/peds.  I am, of course, reacting in response to NY's standards.

Coming to NY from MA, the strangest difference was that NY required all sorts of extra documentation for their licenses that was not needed in MA, but that the eyesight test was ridiculously simpler.  In NY, you just read the sheet with the huge letters on it from 10 feet away at the DMV; in MA, the RMV tested you for colorblindness (just telling the difference between red and green) and small lettering under a couple of conditions (you had to stare into a viewer for the tests).

So, proving that you are who you say you are is more important in NY than making sure you can actually see.

Yeah, it's amazing how much they need assembled for a fist-time licence here.  You have to have a large number of IDs to get an ID.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are many people who simply can't get a licence simply because they don't have 6 points of ID (even a passport is only 4, and that's about the highest number of points anything has other than a NY licence; out of state licences are only 2, the same as a social security card or high school ID with report card).  It's about the only thing that's difficult in getting a NY licence.

[cl94]

MisterSG1: New York's licensing standards are clearly WAY behind Ontario's.  Our road test consists of making one trip abound the block in a subdivision like this one and managing to not break any laws or hit anything.  The only skills tested are 3 point turns and parallel parking (behind a car, not between two).  No freeways, no arterials, and no hills (at least where I took it, in the subdivision I linked to).  The written test is a complete joke; just 20 very easy (I wouldn't be surprised if "does one drive on the right or left side of the road" is in the question bank!) multiple choice questions (heck, one question even contained the answer to the adjacent question when I took it!) that aren't necessarily kept up to date, at least not on matters of interacting with bikes/peds.  I am, of course, reacting in response to NY's standards.

Coming to NY from MA, the strangest difference was that NY required all sorts of extra documentation for their licenses that was not needed in MA, but that the eyesight test was ridiculously simpler.  In NY, you just read the sheet with the huge letters on it from 10 feet away at the DMV; in MA, the RMV tested you for colorblindness (just telling the difference between red and green) and small lettering under a couple of conditions (you had to stare into a viewer for the tests).

So, proving that you are who you say you are is more important in NY than making sure you can actually see.

Yeah, it's amazing how much they need assembled for a fist-time licence here.  You have to have a large number of IDs to get an ID.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are many people who simply can't get a licence simply because they don't have 6 points of ID (even a passport is only 4, and that's about the highest number of points anything has other than a NY licence; out of state licences are only 2, the same as a social security card or high school ID with report card).  It's about the only thing that's difficult in getting a NY licence.

Getting my permit, I needed a birth certificate, social security card, and an MV-45. It's ridiculous.

[RobbieL2415]

MisterSG1: New York's licensing standards are clearly WAY behind Ontario's.  Our road test consists of making one trip abound the block in a subdivision like this one and managing to not break any laws or hit anything.  The only skills tested are 3 point turns and parallel parking (behind a car, not between two).  No freeways, no arterials, and no hills (at least where I took it, in the subdivision I linked to).  The written test is a complete joke; just 20 very easy (I wouldn't be surprised if "does one drive on the right or left side of the road" is in the question bank!) multiple choice questions (heck, one question even contained the answer to the adjacent question when I took it!) that aren't necessarily kept up to date, at least not on matters of interacting with bikes/peds.  I am, of course, reacting in response to NY's standards.

Coming to NY from MA, the strangest difference was that NY required all sorts of extra documentation for their licenses that was not needed in MA, but that the eyesight test was ridiculously simpler.  In NY, you just read the sheet with the huge letters on it from 10 feet away at the DMV; in MA, the RMV tested you for colorblindness (just telling the difference between red and green) and small lettering under a couple of conditions (you had to stare into a viewer for the tests).

So, proving that you are who you say you are is more important in NY than making sure you can actually see.

Yeah, it's amazing how much they need assembled for a fist-time licence here.  You have to have a large number of IDs to get an ID.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are many people who simply can't get a licence simply because they don't have 6 points of ID (even a passport is only 4, and that's about the highest number of points anything has other than a NY licence; out of state licences are only 2, the same as a social security card or high school ID with report card).  It's about the only thing that's difficult in getting a NY licence.

Maybe if we had a national identity card program that wouldnt be the case.  Not advocating for it but it might help to streamline the process.

[cl94]

MisterSG1: New York's licensing standards are clearly WAY behind Ontario's.  Our road test consists of making one trip abound the block in a subdivision like this one and managing to not break any laws or hit anything.  The only skills tested are 3 point turns and parallel parking (behind a car, not between two).  No freeways, no arterials, and no hills (at least where I took it, in the subdivision I linked to).  The written test is a complete joke; just 20 very easy (I wouldn't be surprised if "does one drive on the right or left side of the road" is in the question bank!) multiple choice questions (heck, one question even contained the answer to the adjacent question when I took it!) that aren't necessarily kept up to date, at least not on matters of interacting with bikes/peds.  I am, of course, reacting in response to NY's standards.

Coming to NY from MA, the strangest difference was that NY required all sorts of extra documentation for their licenses that was not needed in MA, but that the eyesight test was ridiculously simpler.  In NY, you just read the sheet with the huge letters on it from 10 feet away at the DMV; in MA, the RMV tested you for colorblindness (just telling the difference between red and green) and small lettering under a couple of conditions (you had to stare into a viewer for the tests).

So, proving that you are who you say you are is more important in NY than making sure you can actually see.

Yeah, it's amazing how much they need assembled for a fist-time licence here.  You have to have a large number of IDs to get an ID.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are many people who simply can't get a licence simply because they don't have 6 points of ID (even a passport is only 4, and that's about the highest number of points anything has other than a NY licence; out of state licences are only 2, the same as a social security card or high school ID with report card).  It's about the only thing that's difficult in getting a NY licence.

Maybe if we had a national identity card program that wouldnt be the case.  Not advocating for it but it might help to streamline the process.

Almost every other country has them. Pay for them with a small tax and, all of a sudden, everyone has a government-issued photo ID (that can be used for voting in places with ID laws).

[kalvado]

Well, if we're comparing NY with MA - MA requires minimum of 3 or 4 documents for adults - SSN card and one each for residence, signature and DOB (one document can be used only in 1 category)
Random check shows things are fairly standard (4 pieces of documentation in FL, 3 in TX, 4 in IL)..

[Buffaboy]

MisterSG1: New York's licensing standards are clearly WAY behind Ontario's.  Our road test consists of making one trip abound the block in a subdivision like this one and managing to not break any laws or hit anything.  The only skills tested are 3 point turns and parallel parking (behind a car, not between two).  No freeways, no arterials, and no hills (at least where I took it, in the subdivision I linked to).  The written test is a complete joke; just 20 very easy (I wouldn't be surprised if "does one drive on the right or left side of the road" is in the question bank!) multiple choice questions (heck, one question even contained the answer to the adjacent question when I took it!) that aren't necessarily kept up to date, at least not on matters of interacting with bikes/peds.  I am, of course, reacting in response to NY's standards.

Coming to NY from MA, the strangest difference was that NY required all sorts of extra documentation for their licenses that was not needed in MA, but that the eyesight test was ridiculously simpler.  In NY, you just read the sheet with the huge letters on it from 10 feet away at the DMV; in MA, the RMV tested you for colorblindness (just telling the difference between red and green) and small lettering under a couple of conditions (you had to stare into a viewer for the tests).

So, proving that you are who you say you are is more important in NY than making sure you can actually see.

Yeah, it's amazing how much they need assembled for a fist-time licence here.  You have to have a large number of IDs to get an ID.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are many people who simply can't get a licence simply because they don't have 6 points of ID (even a passport is only 4, and that's about the highest number of points anything has other than a NY licence; out of state licences are only 2, the same as a social security card or high school ID with report card).  It's about the only thing that's difficult in getting a NY licence.

Maybe if we had a national identity card program that wouldnt be the case.  Not advocating for it but it might help to streamline the process.

Almost every other country has them. Pay for them with a small tax and, all of a sudden, everyone has a government-issued photo ID (that can be used for voting in places with ID laws).

Or just give it to every baby upon birth like a SSN

[kalvado]

Almost every other country has them. Pay for them with a small tax and, all of a sudden, everyone has a government-issued photo ID (that can be used for voting in places with ID laws).

Or just give it to every baby upon birth like a SSN

Question is what can be used to identify a baby. Photo of a newborn is only that useful by the age of 2. Basically identification relies mostly on parent's word till the age of 14-18.
Some countries start doing DNA database, but that is apparently the sign of totalitarian society - same as dreaded Soviet Union, which required - just imagine that! - presenting ID to board a plane.
US is collecting fingerprints from non-citizens crossing the border, and probably its a matter of time before citizens are required to be fingerprinted as well. I would expect fingerprint-retina-DNA to become standard ID complex within foreseeable future, same as photograph and signature these days. With technology advances these are no longer invasive and humiliating procedures, not more than a photograph and vision check for driver license.

[bzakharin]

The driver's license is a de facto ID. You can get a state ID if you can't drive. Here in NJ you basically can't get a job without one, or a passport if absolutely necessary. Found this out the hard way when the certificate of citizenship suddenly lost its standing as a form of ID in the state. Had to scramble to get a non-driver ID the day I was to start work. So really, the national ID is already a reality. It's just administered by states, and you pay out of pocket instead of as a tax. And, for the record, how hard is it to assemble the documentation needed to prove your ID at the DMV? If you were born here you have a birth certificate. If you're a naturalized citizen you have a certificate of citizenship. If you are a legal non-citizen you have a green card. You have a Social Security card if you are legal. Most people have some sort of a bank account.

[SP Cook]

The driver's license is a de facto ID.

And, for the record, how hard is it to assemble the documentation needed to prove your ID at the DMV?

Correct.  There is a great mythology that has developed about the whole issue, but I have yet to meet the first person who cannot get a non-drivers ID (issued by the DMV in most states) with a few easy to obtain steps.  And I have yet to meet the first adult person who does not have a DL or a non-drivers ID.  The whole idea is a myth.

[jeffandnicole]

The driver's license is a de facto ID. You can get a state ID if you can't drive. Here in NJ you basically can't get a job without one, or a passport if absolutely necessary. Found this out the hard way when the certificate of citizenship suddenly lost its standing as a form of ID in the state. Had to scramble to get a non-driver ID the day I was to start work. So really, the national ID is already a reality. It's just administered by states, and you pay out of pocket instead of as a tax. And, for the record, how hard is it to assemble the documentation needed to prove your ID at the DMV? If you were born here you have a birth certificate. If you're a naturalized citizen you have a certificate of citizenship. If you are a legal non-citizen you have a green card. You have a Social Security card if you are legal. Most people have some sort of a bank account.

There's an amazing number of people that have lost track of this information over the years when it wasn't really needed for anything.  Many people had never really seen their birth certificate.  Before 9/11, the only thing I used mine for was to enter Canada, when it was a permitted form of documentation.   SS cards - same thing.  I can't really recall needing to show it to anyone.   Suddenly, when states required those documents, a lot of people had no clue where they were located.   

It's also surprising how many people don't have bank accounts.  That's why there's plenty of check-cashing agencies.  And for many companies, if you don't have a bank account, they pay you with a debit card.

[cl94]

The driver's license is a de facto ID. You can get a state ID if you can't drive. Here in NJ you basically can't get a job without one, or a passport if absolutely necessary. Found this out the hard way when the certificate of citizenship suddenly lost its standing as a form of ID in the state. Had to scramble to get a non-driver ID the day I was to start work. So really, the national ID is already a reality. It's just administered by states, and you pay out of pocket instead of as a tax. And, for the record, how hard is it to assemble the documentation needed to prove your ID at the DMV? If you were born here you have a birth certificate. If you're a naturalized citizen you have a certificate of citizenship. If you are a legal non-citizen you have a green card. You have a Social Security card if you are legal. Most people have some sort of a bank account.

There's an amazing number of people that have lost track of this information over the years when it wasn't really needed for anything.  Many people had never really seen their birth certificate.  Before 9/11, the only thing I used mine for was to enter Canada, when it was a permitted form of documentation.   SS cards - same thing.  I can't really recall needing to show it to anyone.   Suddenly, when states required those documents, a lot of people had no clue where they were located.   

It's also surprising how many people don't have bank accounts.  That's why there's plenty of check-cashing agencies.  And for many companies, if you don't have a bank account, they pay you with a debit card.

A ton of poor people don't have all of their documents, either. Good luck getting someone without a birth certificate or SS card a license or ID card.

[kalvado]

A ton of poor people don't have all of their documents, either. Good luck getting someone without a birth certificate or SS card a license or ID card.

Birth certificate is just that - certificate that someone was born. I am not sure there were many babies who were born in a field and not reported to authorities within past 50 years. I can think of some babies being dropped of at hospital or police station without paperwork, but that is a rare occasion, and probably some documentation would be created anyway.
Then... you cannot get a legal job without SSN card. You may forgot that, but HR didn't.

Now if there is someone stupid or unlucky enough to loose these documents.. Well, that is a very different story.

[cl94]

A ton of poor people don't have all of their documents, either. Good luck getting someone without a birth certificate or SS card a license or ID card.

Birth certificate is just that - certificate that someone was born. I am not sure there were many babies who were born in a field and not reported to authorities within past 50 years. I can think of some babies being dropped of at hospital or police station without paperwork, but that is a rare occasion, and probably some documentation would be created anyway.
Then... you cannot get a legal job without SSN card. You may forgot that, but HR didn't.

Now if there is someone stupid or unlucky enough to loose these documents.. Well, that is a very different story.

Many people in impoverished inner-city communities just don't have these documents. My mother works with a ton of mentally ill and homeless people who don't have the documentation. Don't have a Social Security card and you can't get any form of government-issued ID in New York or a job. Some of these documents were lost by the parents through homelessness or arrests. It is a major issue in inner-city and immigrant communities.

[vdeane]

Well, if we're comparing NY with MA - MA requires minimum of 3 or 4 documents for adults - SSN card and one each for residence, signature and DOB (one document can be used only in 1 category)
Random check shows things are fairly standard (4 pieces of documentation in FL, 3 in TX, 4 in IL)..

In NY we have no requirement to prove residency except for an enhanced license.  We only require proof of name and age, and documents can be both categories.

The driver's license is a de facto ID. You can get a state ID if you can't drive. Here in NJ you basically can't get a job without one, or a passport if absolutely necessary. Found this out the hard way when the certificate of citizenship suddenly lost its standing as a form of ID in the state. Had to scramble to get a non-driver ID the day I was to start work. So really, the national ID is already a reality. It's just administered by states, and you pay out of pocket instead of as a tax. And, for the record, how hard is it to assemble the documentation needed to prove your ID at the DMV? If you were born here you have a birth certificate. If you're a naturalized citizen you have a certificate of citizenship. If you are a legal non-citizen you have a green card. You have a Social Security card if you are legal. Most people have some sort of a bank account.

A birth certificate provedes proof of age but does not contribute to proof of name.  Social Security card is only 2 points; certificate of citizenship is 3.  Bank account is only 1, and many people (such as myself) get all of our statements electronically (heck, the only paper bills I get are from State Farm, because they don't have paperless billing).

A ton of poor people don't have all of their documents, either. Good luck getting someone without a birth certificate or SS card a license or ID card.

Birth certificate is just that - certificate that someone was born. I am not sure there were many babies who were born in a field and not reported to authorities within past 50 years. I can think of some babies being dropped of at hospital or police station without paperwork, but that is a rare occasion, and probably some documentation would be created anyway.
Then... you cannot get a legal job without SSN card. You may forgot that, but HR didn't.

Now if there is someone stupid or unlucky enough to loose these documents.. Well, that is a very different story.

That doesn't mean that nothing ever got lost.  And usually employers want the social security number, not the physical card.  And MANY people make money "under the table", ESPECIALLY poor people.

It doesn't help that a lot of people don't know what a birth certificate looks like.  They think it's the novelty thing the hospital gave them with the footprints.  They only find out otherwise when their kid turns 16 and they try to get some form of ID and can't.

In any case, birth certificate plus Social Security Card is only 2/6 points for NY.  Good luck getting the other 4.  If you have a job and paper pay stubs printed with a computer (last job I had before NYSDOT and my internship were both electronic pay stubs), that's 1.  If you have paper bank statements, that's another 1.  Now you're at 4.  Where do you get the remaining 2?  Your parents can't sign an affidavit if you're over 21 (and many people wait these days).  If you have your HS diploma, that's 1 more but what about the other?  Unless you have a passport (4 points), gun permit (2 points), certificate of citizenship (3 points) or out of state licence (2 points) (don't try with a foreign licence outside of Canada; NYS doesn't recognize them and you'd have to start over with a learner's permit), you're screwed (don't even try a college ID; you need an official transcript with it).

I think it's ironic that it's easier for an immigrant to get a licence than someone who was born here.

Let's not even get started with the two proofs of residency for an enhanced licence.  Those are a lot harder to do if all your financial/billing affairs are all electronic, that's for sure!

[cl94]

I get some of my bank and credit card statements in paper form just in case I need to provide proof of residency for something. USAA does everything for banking, investments, and insurance electronically unless you opt-in to paper statements. I hate wasting paper, but so many things require proof of residency and a printout doesn't count. In many ways, it's ridiculous.

The points thing is why everyone in New York needs to get a license before the age of 21. Good luck getting 4 points if your parents don't sign a MV-45 and you don't have a passport. If you have Medicaid or food stamps, that's 2-3 points each. A college ID is 2 points with a transcript. Of course, it's hard to get any of those or a job if you don't have a permanent address...see how the cycle begins/continues?

[kalvado]

Well, you need to PROVE who you are to get an ID - and it makes some sense DMV wants to get some proof.
If you're over 21, and you're not in college (2 point for college ID), do not have a job (1 point for employer badge + 1 point for W-2), and do not get public assistance (2 or 3 points for welfare card) - I start feeling bad for you. Of course, someone just graduated and looking for the first job can be lost in between..
Then, ATM or credit card gives 1 point - you cannot do online payment without some sort of account. 1 point for health insurance card (should be more common with Obamacare). Things start to add up, right?

Mentally ill and/or homeless  - yes, that makes things more complicated..

[MisterSG1]

I looked up the rules for getting a NY license and I don't think it's unreasonable at all. Let's look at my case, suppose I did an 8 month internship with the MTA, I looked up that my current Ontario license is 2 points, my legalization document for the internship, in this case being a J-1 allows for 3 points. Of course finally, to do an internship I need a SSN, and that gives me 2 points....there you go.

I believe this whole tangent started because cl94 said there should be a "National ID", we don't have one either cl94, and just because all other countries do it doesn't necessarily make it right. Nearly every other country uses the metric system so how about the US switches. Metrication, especially in the anglosphere was pushed through with force, also known as legislation which basically was an involuntary transition.

What happened here in Canada, was that the metric pushers eventually got thrown out of office halfway through forced metrification...leading to the metric limbo we are in today in Canada. There is no sane person in all of Canada who actually measures their height in cm, or weight in kg. The Region of Peel when they introduced their new garbage carts told us with signs around Brampton to "Place garbage carts THREE FEET APART", yeah....I know I'm going off on a tangent but that's honestly how I feel. Just because nearly every other country does something doesn't make it right.

[kalvado]

I believe this whole tangent started because cl94 said there should be a "National ID", we don't have one either cl94, and just because all other countries do it doesn't necessarily make it right. Nearly every other country uses the metric system so how about the US switches. Metrication, especially in the anglosphere was pushed through with force, also known as legislation which basically was an involuntary transition.

Well, with the RealID program - which is force fed to the states (at some point NYS got a threat that NY driver license wouldn't be accepted for plane boarding starting literally next week) - national ID program administered by local DMVs is a reality in US. 

[bzakharin]

Metrication makes things a lot simpler in the global economy, so I would fully support it if done right. National IDs are mostly an internal matter (at least in the US. If you live in a passportless border agreement zone, some coordination would be needed), though I personally wouldn't mind them.

[vdeane]

Well, you need to PROVE who you are to get an ID - and it makes some sense DMV wants to get some proof.
If you're over 21, and you're not in college (2 point for college ID), do not have a job (1 point for employer badge + 1 point for W-2), and do not get public assistance (2 or 3 points for welfare card) - I start feeling bad for you. Of course, someone just graduated and looking for the first job can be lost in between..
Then, ATM or credit card gives 1 point - you cannot do online payment without some sort of account. 1 point for health insurance card (should be more common with Obamacare). Things start to add up, right?

Mentally ill and/or homeless  - yes, that makes things more complicated..

Quick note: it says "College ID WITH TRANSCRIPT".  You know, that thing you pay money for AFTER you graduated in case anyone ever needs to see your coursework...

Granted, these things are easier to deal with once employed.  The ID stuff is much harder to assemble before one enters the workforce, especially the proof of residency (I lived at school and with my parents, so no lease, and I did all my billing online, so no printed statements; if I hadn't recently been summoned for jury duty, I wouldn't have been able to get my enhanced licence when I did).

[bzakharin]

Well, you need to PROVE who you are to get an ID - and it makes some sense DMV wants to get some proof.
If you're over 21, and you're not in college (2 point for college ID), do not have a job (1 point for employer badge + 1 point for W-2), and do not get public assistance (2 or 3 points for welfare card) - I start feeling bad for you. Of course, someone just graduated and looking for the first job can be lost in between..
Then, ATM or credit card gives 1 point - you cannot do online payment without some sort of account. 1 point for health insurance card (should be more common with Obamacare). Things start to add up, right?

Mentally ill and/or homeless  - yes, that makes things more complicated..

Quick note: it says "College ID WITH TRANSCRIPT".  You know, that thing you pay money for AFTER you graduated in case anyone ever needs to see your coursework...

Granted, these things are easier to deal with once employed.  The ID stuff is much harder to assemble before one enters the workforce, especially the proof of residency (I lived at school and with my parents, so no lease, and I did all my billing online, so no printed statements; if I hadn't recently been summoned for jury duty, I wouldn't have been able to get my enhanced licence when I did).

This document from Bergen County College (http://www.bergen.edu/Portals/0/Docs/IntStudentsCenter/InfoResources/HowTo_NJ_driverslicense.pdf) implies that, at least in NJ, you can print out an unofficial partial transcript and use that while still a student (so I guess you can't do that until after the first semester is over). My college offered it for free even back when I was a student (1999-2003)

[kalvado]

"College ID WITH TRANSCRIPT". You know, that thing you pay money for AFTER you graduated i

No, transcript is basically a progress report for current students - and the goal is to make sure student is actually attending college. Many colleges do not request ID cards back at the time of graduation, and those can sit on a shelf for extended periods of time. Since they are no longer valid and there is no point in safeguarding them, they can end up anywhere. But there is no expiration date stamped on them, so no easy way to check validity outside of college system. 
May be a problem during first semester while there are no grades in the transcript - but I wonder if admission letter + college ID would be accepted, or an empty transcript saying "current student without any grades yet" can be issued.

[RobbieL2415]

I believe this whole tangent started because cl94 said there should be a "National ID", we don't have one either cl94, and just because all other countries do it doesn't necessarily make it right. Nearly every other country uses the metric system so how about the US switches. Metrication, especially in the anglosphere was pushed through with force, also known as legislation which basically was an involuntary transition.

Well, with the RealID program - which is force fed to the states (at some point NYS got a threat that NY driver license wouldn't be accepted for plane boarding starting literally next week) - national ID program administered by local DMVs is a reality in US.

RealID is stupid to me.  The TSA agent who checks your ID and boarding pass is only looking to make sure that the information on both documents matches.  They are not allowed to cross-check with terrorist watchlists or the no-fly lists.  Why does that require a nationwide standard for IDs?  If it was issued under the authority of a US state or territory it should be good to go.

All the more reason to drive or take Amtrak, though I bet in my lifetime the TSA will start screening passengers boarding trains because ISIS.

[kalvado]

RealID is stupid to me.  The TSA agent who checks your ID and boarding pass is only looking to make sure that the information on both documents matches.  They are not allowed to cross-check with terrorist watchlists or the no-fly lists.  Why does that require a nationwide standard for IDs?  If it was issued under the authority of a US state or territory it should be good to go.

All the more reason to drive or take Amtrak, though I bet in my lifetime the TSA will start screening passengers boarding trains because ISIS.

RealID is not about airline travel - it is about unified ID database (administered by a non-profit, not federal government) with unified requirements. Accepting certain state ID for certain purposes is a way to pressure states into compliance, same as highway funds dependent on state drinking age.
And Amtrak formally requires ID to travel. They didn't actually check anything last time I took the train, but they say ID must be available. Besides, I've seen CBP raiding Amtrak trains in Buffalo and Rochester NY...