The (ir)rational hatred of school busses

[RobbieL2415]

In the same vain of the cyclist hate thread, does anyone else get annoyed when they get stuck behind a school bus on a main road and they're stopping every tenth of a mile?

Please note, this thread is NOT meant to bash school bus drivers, just the laws and the nuisances they create.  They have a duty to ensure the safety of the children they're transporting.

[leroys73]

Yes, I do, but that is life.  They are a fact of life on the road.   

I'll turn around or pass them when legal.

[vdeane]

Yep.  There's one on my commute; just one stop on where I drive, but I try to get by him where I can; it's easy because of a turn onto a four lane road, unless someone in front decides they want to say behind the bus; it's as if some people want to stop (or force others to).

[paulthemapguy]

What's worse is when you're working a road construction job, and a school bus has to get through your job site.  You have to allocate special turn radii and reconfigure your traffic control plan to accommodate them, or the bus stops right in the middle of your single lane of live traffic when the other lane's closed.  Jobs usually start at 7am, and as soon as the contractors mobilize that's when the kids are transported to school.  wahmp wahmp

[noelbotevera]

Yes...just because I'm coming from the other direction doesn't mean I have to stop. It's rational if you had to stop behind it, but in front of it in the opposite direction?

[Zeffy]

Yes...just because I'm coming from the other direction doesn't mean I have to stop. It's rational if you had to stop behind it, but in front of it in the opposite direction?

If a child is on the opposite side of the road and they need to cross...?

[jeffandnicole]

Yes...just because I'm coming from the other direction doesn't mean I have to stop. It's rational if you had to stop behind it, but in front of it in the opposite direction?

I don't agree with your post, but even if I did, you're only stopping once for that bus, whereas someone behind the bus has to stop every time the bus stops.

[Duke87]

I do not fault school buses for anything about the way they drive or stop.

I do, however, believe the expectation that all traffic in both directions must stop whenever the school bus does is needlessly heavy handed. This is an expectation largely particular to the US and Canada, most of the world allows drivers to pass stopped school buses at low speed and/or with appropriate caution. Children in these countries somehow survive in spite of this.

[RobbieL2415]

I do not fault school buses for anything about the way they drive or stop.

I do, however, believe the expectation that all traffic in both directions must stop whenever the school bus does is needlessly heavy handed. This is an expectation largely particular to the US and Canada, most of the world allows drivers to pass stopped school buses at low speed and/or with appropriate caution. Children in these countries somehow survive in spite of this.

Do other countries allow busses to drop off children who live on the opposite side of the road?  I think part of requiring all directions to stop when the road isn't divided/multi-lanes is to create a safe crossing for children.

It should also be noted that it is only illegal to PASS a school bus with its red flashing lights on.  You can turn opposite the bus or go straight across an intersection

[jeffandnicole]

The only time I fault buses is when they stop in front of every single house, even when the houses are next door to each other.  Even worse when the child remains in the house (or car) until the bus comes to a complete stop. 

On a route I took on rare occasion, a school bus was picking up a handicap child.  Instead of pulling over on the full shoulder, the bus remained in the travel lane, blocking traffic for over 5 minutes.

[Duke87]

Do other countries allow busses to drop off children who live on the opposite side of the road?

Yes. Other countries also trust drivers to yield to children crossing the street without issuing a commandment from on high that everyone shalt come to a complete stop in a situation where one might.

Because, y'know, other countries expect that if you have a license you should actually know how to drive.

[kkt]

Hate, no.  Minor annoyance at most.

We don't do stops at every house, except for special ed students.  The school buses in Seattle usually only stop every 1/10 to 1/4 mile, and at some point in their stop routine they'll sit without their red lights flashing so car traffic behind them can pass.

[cl94]

The district I went to high school in does stops at every house if there aren't sidewalks. That got annoying after a while because the town is quite developed, even were sidewalks are not present. There are routes that will stop at every third house for 6 straight stops.

[jakeroot]

As I've already said on threads about this before, I think Washington has the best laws: stop for a school bus if the road has two or fewer lanes. Three or more does not require a stop for traffic heading in the opposite direction. Traffic corresponding with the direction of the bus must stop, just in case a child attempts to cross the street anyways.

[Bruce]

One big fault with school busses is the routes that have been plotted for them.

Case in point: my town (Marysville, WA) has a railroad running north-south parallel to the main arterial. School buses should, logically, try to avoid crossing the railroad unless at the tail end of their route towards school and only coming perpendicular without a turn. Instead, school buses are forced to wait a light cycle to turn, stop mid-intersection and wait at the track, then lurch over the raised crossing and be on their merry way. During morning peak, it often delays another light cycle, which creates some bad backups that could be avoided by smart planning (mainly, school assignments for certain neighborhoods and routing decisions).

Meanwhile, the local transit agency has done everything in their power to re-structure buses to avoid track crossings. Only from a perpendicular angle and never on a turn. It's worked out wonderfully, with most buses able to get out of the intersection before the next light cycle.

[english si]

Yes. Other countries also trust drivers to yield to children crossing the street without issuing a commandment from on high that everyone shalt come to a complete stop in a situation where one might.

Because, y'know, other countries expect that if you have a license you should actually know how to drive.

How very dare they!

The US assumes that the person on the road is a total idiot needing to be told exactly how to drive and kept in a safety blanket of clear rules applied without nuance, the UK assumes that the person on the road has some sense and judgement (though less and less, and our fatality rate is stagnating, rather than declining - though it is still half of that in the US).

[1995hoo]

I do not fault school buses for anything about the way they drive or stop.

I do, however, believe the expectation that all traffic in both directions must stop whenever the school bus does is needlessly heavy handed. This is an expectation largely particular to the US and Canada, most of the world allows drivers to pass stopped school buses at low speed and/or with appropriate caution. Children in these countries somehow survive in spite of this.

Do other countries allow busses to drop off children who live on the opposite side of the road?  I think part of requiring all directions to stop when the road isn't divided/multi-lanes is to create a safe crossing for children.

It should also be noted that it is only illegal to PASS a school bus with its red flashing lights on.  You can turn opposite the bus or go straight across an intersection

Regarding the bolder text, that depends on where you are. Once again we see why posts saying "it's illegal to..." or "you're allowed to...." in reference to traffic law are often misleading because the poster failed to specify in which jurisdiction that law applies.

Scroll to page 2, top of the right-hand column, of this document. In Virginia, if the school bus has the red lights on at an intersection, all directions have to stop: http://dmvnow.com/webdoc/pdf/dmv39d.pdf


What drives me crazy is people who won't pass the bus when the yellow flashing lights come on as the bus is preparing to stop. I try to accelerate, if possible, so as not to get stuck!

[jeffandnicole]

Scroll to page 2, top of the right-hand column, of this document. In Virginia, if the school bus has the red lights on at an intersection, all directions have to stop: http://dmvnow.com/webdoc/pdf/dmv39d.pdf

There's no flashing lights on the side of the bus.  How would a driver on the cross street know if the bus is stopped at a stop sign, if the bus is waiting to turn, or stopped to let kids on or off the bus (especially if kids aren't actually crossing the street)?

I've seen on a few occasions the way-overly cautious driver.  Bus is stopped waiting to make a left turn.  Car coming the other way sees the bus stopped, and thinks it's stopped to let kids off (ignoring the fact that the left turn signal is flashing, and no red lights are flashing).  So the car stops....directly in front of the side street the bus is waiting to turn onto!

[kalvado]

School buses are also a big political thing, which can be (and actually is) misused quite a bit.
For example all the "stop for stopped school bus" thing doesn't account for 2/3 of "school-age pedestrian who died in school-
transportation-related crashes" were killed by....  school buses or vehicles used as school buses.
Or infamous accident (2 school buses, multiple casualties) which was used for "stop distracted driving" campaign.. Improperly maintained (actually failed during hard braking) brakes on buses were treated as a minor contributing factor.

[1995hoo]

Scroll to page 2, top of the right-hand column, of this document. In Virginia, if the school bus has the red lights on at an intersection, all directions have to stop: http://dmvnow.com/webdoc/pdf/dmv39d.pdf

There's no flashing lights on the side of the bus.  How would a driver on the cross street know if the bus is stopped at a stop sign, if the bus is waiting to turn, or stopped to let kids on or off the bus (especially if kids aren't actually crossing the street)?

I've seen on a few occasions the way-overly cautious driver.  Bus is stopped waiting to make a left turn.  Car coming the other way sees the bus stopped, and thinks it's stopped to let kids off (ignoring the fact that the left turn signal is flashing, and no red lights are flashing).  So the car stops....directly in front of the side street the bus is waiting to turn onto!

The left side has that stop sign that swings out. On the right side, you can see the kids. But the lights are not what control anyway, at least not here. Our law says you must stop for a school bus that's loading or unloading children. If the lights malfunction but kids are getting on, you stop or else you risk a ticket.

[Kacie Jane]

Scroll to page 2, top of the right-hand column, of this document. In Virginia, if the school bus has the red lights on at an intersection, all directions have to stop: http://dmvnow.com/webdoc/pdf/dmv39d.pdf

There's no flashing lights on the side of the bus.  How would a driver on the cross street know if the bus is stopped at a stop sign, if the bus is waiting to turn, or stopped to let kids on or off the bus (especially if kids aren't actually crossing the street)?

If you and a school bus are both stopped at an intersection, the school bus isn't going to be directly in front of you, it's going to be off to the side. You should still be able to see the front of the vehicle.

[kphoger]

School buses are also a big political thing, which can be (and actually is) misused quite a bit.

cf Daylight Savings Time

[SP Cook]

Around here, the big issue is out in the rural areas, where there are actually some 2 lane roads you can safely drive at 55 or more (I have never seen a school bus stopped on a rural 4-lane, DOH will always build a pull off and a bus shed as part of the construction).  You can come up on a stopped school bus too quickly.  More pull offs are needed.

On the road I drive every day, it is no big deal.  Only a brief period of time each day, and only a short area, as the schools are nearby.

[1995hoo]

I remember during my years in Charlottesville I got annoyed because the local residents would stop for school buses even if there was a median. Drove me crazy to the point where I learned the bus schedules to avoid the problem!

[jeffandnicole]

Scroll to page 2, top of the right-hand column, of this document. In Virginia, if the school bus has the red lights on at an intersection, all directions have to stop: http://dmvnow.com/webdoc/pdf/dmv39d.pdf

There's no flashing lights on the side of the bus.  How would a driver on the cross street know if the bus is stopped at a stop sign, if the bus is waiting to turn, or stopped to let kids on or off the bus (especially if kids aren't actually crossing the street)?

If you and a school bus are both stopped at an intersection, the school bus isn't going to be directly in front of you, it's going to be off to the side. You should still be able to see the front of the vehicle.

IF you are stopped at the intersection.  If you have the priority street without a stop sign (or you do have a green light), you won't be stopped, and thus may not notice the lights to the side.

If the extended Stop sign on the side of the bus is extended, it wouldn't be facing traffic coming up the cross street.

If kids are entering/exiting the bus and not crossing a street, that means they are hidden from view next to the bus.

Thus, in all 3 circumstances, a driver coming from the left may not know what the bus is doing.

Also, how close does a bus have to be to an intersection for the law to require all directions stop?

For what it's worth: Here's the VA laws pertaining to it: http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-844/ & http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/46.2-859/ .  The laws do say "Passing in any direction".  But it doesn't provide any guidelines as to what consistutes the distance in front of a school bus. Knowing NJ's law, it must be 25 feet from the front and back of a bus.  If I translated this to Virginia, if a bus is 25 feet or further away from an intersection, it wouldn't seem necessary to stop for a bus.

Digging a little deeper...in this law, the bus stop must be in a place visible to traffic coming from BOTH directions...not 3 or more directions! Intersections often have signage, buildings and landscaping that can block the view of a bus. http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-893/