Does it upset you when old signals get replaced by something boring and new

[traffic light guy]

I'm very upset that most of the obsolete signals in my area are being swirly replaced. The New signal heads are very bland, they all look the same, and have no style. However, when seeing an older installation, it can be very interesting. You can see how the signals aged with their burnt bulbs, rust, dirt,dust,it's faded backplate, or missing/mismatched visors, and how odd it looks since it utilizes different technology then what we have now. PLUS, old signals were built to last, these oldies can last up to 70 years without replacement. But the modern equipment would probably be replaced within 10-15 years (Give or take a few), since newer signals aren't built to last like the classics, I believe the state should keep the old signals up into they either fall down, malfunction, or when they become obsolete to the point where they're unable to direct modern traffic. Good thing we have cameras to take pictures, and preserve the look and feel of the older traffic signals. Hec, there are even installations in my state that aren' t even 20 years old, and they're already replaced with modern equipment.

[NE2]

no

[jakeroot]

I've always found old signals, with their rust and faded backplates, to look rather ghetto. So I hold no angst towards signal replacements.

That said, I can see where you're coming from: there's something special about old objects on the highway, be them signs, signals, lamp posts, etc.

[UCFKnights]

I'm very upset that most of the obsolete signals in my area are being swirly replaced. The New signal heads are very bland, they all look the same, and have no style. However, when seeing an older installation, it can be very interesting. You can see how the signals aged with its burnt bulbs, it rust and dust,it's faded backplate, or missing/mismatched visors, and how odd it looks since it utilizes different technology then what we have now. PLUS, old signals were built to last, these oldies can last up to 70 years without replacement. But the modern equipment would probably be replaced within 15 years (Give or take a few), since newer signals are built to last like the classics, I believe the state should keep the old signals up into they either call down, or malfunction, not when they become obsolete. Good thing we have cameras to take pictures, and preserve the look and feel of the older traffic signals.

If they're rusting and at risk of falling down or malfunctioning, they are beyond their life. I totally disagree that modern signal heads are built worse or have no style. Its a different style, its more modern, its how the style evolved. We still are capable of building "retro" signals that look like the old ones, but the industry chose different styles because that is what is preferred by those buying them. Its a different character, but "no style" is grossly inaccurate, and in 30 years, today's modern signals will be the classics. If the old signals are well maintained, not rusted, etc, I'm happy when they are kept in service, but rust is the enemy and does not look good.

[jeffandnicole]

In the long-ago past, signals really only needed two wires from the control box to the signal head - one for the N-S movement, one for the E-W movement.  Connections within the light would connect N-S and E-W. 

Modern lights have multiple options...left/right turn arrows, flashing yellows, lights where N has exclusive entry into the intersection, then S has exclusive entry, etc.  Even if a light isn't set up for a specific mode, having separate wires allows for easier conversion later on.  The older lights which could contain all 4 signals on a single head simply doesn't have the room for the necessary wiring.

It also has to do with today's requirements, which are at minimum one signal per lane, over the lane.  Older retro lights don't lend themselves to proper placement over the lanes.

No doubt the older signals are great collector items, but functionality wise they don't really belong over the roads.

[freebrickproductions]

A bit, as I do like seeing older signals a lot, but I don't really mind it as I also like to see the new signals go up. It also helps me appreciate the older signals that are still standing more as well.

[paulthemapguy]

Im very pleased when any signal head with 8-inch sections is replaced with those adhering to the modern 12-inch standard.  Some old signals have got to go.  But I really do love it when artistry is applied to signal design, like the use of curved mast arms, rustic aesthetic choices, or different paint colors.  It's also exciting to see new technologies used with new signals, like flashing yellow arrows or the bicycle-shaped sections.

In summary, I like things that aren't old, but I like things that look nice.  Age and aesthetics aren't correlated.

[Bruce]

Nope. I'm glad to see them replaced with something easier to see and less prone to any kind of failure.

Museum pieces belong in museums, not in a functioning transportation system.

[ET21]

Nope

[Ian]

It appears that I'm one of a small minority of people on this forum that appreciate older signal systems than I do new ones. Sure, I do like some new installations and I won't lose much sleep over an old signal being replaced, but it is really nice coming across an intersection with old signals that haven't been replaced by something like a FYA or signals with backplates that have those yellow reflective strips surrounding the back-plate (really do not like those).

Also, are people on this forum opposed to old signals being upgraded with LED's?

[SignGeek101]

I, as well as many other members here, aren't sensitive to traffic light replacements because we simply aren't knowledgeable about types, history, etc. So, for most people including myself, a replacement simply isn't a negative thing. Not that I would mind having a older traffic signal in my (non-existent) collection though.

I feel newer signals are easier to see, and newer LED installations probably use less energy and last longer anyway. For aesthetics, I actually prefer 20-20-30 (8-8-12) signals (I don't really know why). But, newer 30-30-30 (12-12-12) signals are much easier to see.

It would be no different with old, faded signs or shields. I can't believe I'm writing this, but sometimes the old Highway Gothic needs to be replaced with the newer (Clearview) sign (not that the Clearview has anything to do with it, the newer sign is cleaner and brighter, regardless of the font).

backplates that have those yellow reflective strips surrounding the back-plate (really do not like those).

That is 99% of the signals up here. Don't really care for them myself I should add. Black is much nicer (though it can be debated which is more visible).

[jakeroot]

backplates that have those yellow reflective strips surrounding the back-plate (really do not like those).

That is 99% of the signals up here. Don't really care for them myself I should add. Black is much nicer (though it can be debated which is more visible).

Ehh, sort of. At least in BC, the backplates, both front and back, are 100% yellow. AFAIK, this is not permitted in the US.

I believe in Winnipeg, as you've brought up in the past, there are signals with black backplates to indicate a turn head. This is the only case I'm aware of, in Canada, where there is any sort of strip around the backplate, which is what Ian is talking about.

I feel newer signals are easier to see, and newer LED installations probably use less energy and last longer anyway. For aesthetics, I actually prefer 20-20-30 (8-8-12) signals (I don't really know why). But, newer 30-30-30 (12-12-12) signals are much easier to see.

(pardon my use of mm)

So you prefer a 200mm red, 200mm amber, and 300mm green? I'm okay with this, if the bottom is an arrow.

My preference has been, for the longest time, 300-300-300 overhead, 200-200-200 supplemental/nearside.

[SignGeek101]

backplates that have those yellow reflective strips surrounding the back-plate (really do not like those).

That is 99% of the signals up here. Don't really care for them myself I should add. Black is much nicer (though it can be debated which is more visible).

Ehh, sort of. At least in BC, the backplates, both front and back, are 100% yellow. AFAIK, this is not permitted in the US.

I believe in Winnipeg, as you've brought up in the past, there are signals with black backplates to indicate a turn head. This is the only case I'm aware of, in Canada, where there is any sort of strip around the backplate, which is what Ian is talking about.

You're right, I overstated the 99% part. Probably closer to 70% across the country. You are correct in saying that left turning lights are black here (newer ones are black, with a yellow edge, https://goo.gl/maps/8BbvkV1TQJE2 ). I know BC, SK, and ON use yellow for everything.

Some cities in Alberta (like Edmonton and Banff) use black backplates for everything just like the US. I prefer this method.

I feel newer signals are easier to see, and newer LED installations probably use less energy and last longer anyway. For aesthetics, I actually prefer 20-20-30 (8-8-12) signals (I don't really know why). But, newer 30-30-30 (12-12-12) signals are much easier to see.

(pardon my use of mm)

So you prefer a 200mm red, 200mm amber, and 300mm green? I'm okay with this, if the bottom is an arrow.

My preference has been, for the longest time, 300-300-300 overhead, 200-200-200 supplemental/nearside.

Actually it's the 200mm green, 200mm amber, and 300mm red. Probably not a popular opinion, but for some unexplainable reason, I find them appealing.

[ET21]

Also, are people on this forum opposed to old signals being upgraded with LED's?

I honestly prefer the LED ones, especially if they replace a very old or outdated design.

[Max Rockatansky]

It doesn't "upset" me per se when a new signal is put up but I can see how the newer designs are perceived as sterile boring.  Road signage is kind of similar in that vein.  A lot of older road signs need to go because they are beat up but the designs tend to be very boring and bland.  I never quite got this whole this whole push for total function but with no flair?...why not have both?

[freebrickproductions]

I feel newer signals are easier to see, and newer LED installations probably use less energy and last longer anyway. For aesthetics, I actually prefer 20-20-30 (8-8-12) signals (I don't really know why). But, newer 30-30-30 (12-12-12) signals are much easier to see.

(pardon my use of mm)

So you prefer a 200mm red, 200mm amber, and 300mm green? I'm okay with this, if the bottom is an arrow.

My preference has been, for the longest time, 300-300-300 overhead, 200-200-200 supplemental/nearside.

Actually it's the 200mm green, 200mm amber, and 300mm red. Probably not a popular opinion, but for some unexplainable reason, I find them appealing.

I like the 12-8-8 (300-200-200 for those of y'all who are metric) signals as well. The larger red just looks cool.

[Scott5114]

Around here there aren't really any signals old enough to be interesting. A new signal replaces a signal from 1990 or so. They look identical. Oh well.

You do see old four-way lights and things like that in small towns but those are infrequently replaced because compliance with the latest MUTCD just isn't a priority in places like Lindsay and Hugo.

[paulthemapguy]

It appears that I'm one of a small minority of people on this forum that appreciate older signal systems than I do new ones. Sure, I do like some new installations and I won't lose much sleep over an old signal being replaced, but it is really nice coming across an intersection with old signals that haven't been replaced by something like a FYA or signals with backplates that have those yellow reflective strips surrounding the back-plate (really do not like those).

Also, are people on this forum opposed to old signals being upgraded with LED's?

I agree about FYA's and yellow backplates.  I'm still skeptical of their appeal/effectiveness.  And yeah I don't lose sleep when a signal is replaced either.
This is a meaningless personal preference, but LED's create light that is slightly off the colors I would like to see.  The green is has kind of a bluish tint, which is a little different from the more grass-green color I'd like to see.  Since LED retrofitting is very rampant in Illinois, I do admit I keep track of the signals who have held out amidst this rampant rampage.  I think it's just me keeping track of where I can get my nostalgia fix, though I do see the justice in updating signals to make them more effective.

[roadfro]

This is a meaningless personal preference, but LED's create light that is slightly off the colors I would like to see.  The green is has kind of a bluish tint, which is a little different from the more grass-green color I'd like to see.  Since LED retrofitting is very rampant in Illinois, I do admit I keep track of the signals who have held out amidst this rampant rampage.  I think it's just me keeping track of where I can get my nostalgia fix, though I do see the justice in updating signals to make them more effective.

What you say about the LED refits is interesting to me. In the Las Vegas, Nevada area, the old incandescent green lights tended to have the more bluish tint (which, I was under the impression, was purposeful in giving a slight color distinguishing factor for individuals with red-green colorblindness). When LED refits and new installs started including the yellow and green indications (they did red only at first), the green LED color became the more true green color. I still see some older green lights with the blue tint up in Reno and Sparks, but most (if not all) signals in the Vegas area switched out years ago.

[thenetwork]

I prefer the older signals over the newer ones because they were metal with glass lenses and they took a beating, whereas the modern signals are plastic/polymer that allows for some visors to crack, chip or fall off easier than metal visors, and the yellow paint coating on some signals flakes or peels off, revealing a silver/grey housing.

I also believe in retrofitting older signals with LEDs and continuing to use them at simpler intersections.

[US 41]

Yes, they're replacing all of the old style signals on Third Street (US 41) in downtown Terre Haute.

The current/old ones are these. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4672972,-87.4138489,3a,66.8y,327.54h,91.75t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1scabBrTF3fW-sieO3zJuP8A!2e0

The new ones will look like this one except it will have the flashing yellow arrow. (The flashing yellow arrow addition is why they are replacing the old lights.) https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4235336,-87.4160474,3a,66.8y,358.98h,86.47t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDHcrfD-VE-6h0EsMmN8L8Q!2e0

[M3019C LPS20]

Nope. I'm glad to see them replaced with something easier to see and less prone to any kind of failure.

Museum pieces belong in museums, not in a functioning transportation system.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[M3019C LPS20]

In most cases, yes. I also get annoyed when those that are not even ten years old and are still good are removed. Waste of money from my perspective, but, if a municipality has enough money, then why stop?

My heart is with New York City, so it is fortunate that the city is still abundant in old signals (primarily Marbelite), most of which were installed by the NYCDOT from the 1960s to the 1970s. As a good practice, the folks maintain the existing equipment well. Usually once every 6 years or so, contractors give the signals TLC.

[US71]

It annoys me, yes. Not much I can do about it, though.

[roadman65]

I hate when Florida goes back to the stone age with span wire signals to replace new mast arms.

FL 535 at Polynesian Isles Boulevard in Kissimmee, FL where a mast arm signal was installed at an intersection that had no traffic control device other than a STOP sign back in the mid 1990's.  Then in the early 2000's the arms were taken down for a span wire assembly during a repaving project on FL 535.

FL 535 at Poinciana Blvd. had mast arms installed when Poinciana Blvd. opened to FL 535 from US 192 in the mid 1990's and sometime in 2013 or circa, one mast arm got removed either by a vehicle or failed inspection.  The replacement signals were on a temporary span wire between two wooden telephone poles, where after a year or so, instead of investing in a new replacement mast arm, the other three arm assemblies were removed and a permanent span wire assembly was installed.

Orange Blossom Trail at Taft- Vineland Road had a mast arm signal assembly installed in the late 90's, that replaced a brand new signal that was installed less than a year earlier during a widening project on OBT.  Now in 2013, the mast arms were replaced again with span wire assembly after Orange County did not want to replace one mast arm that got hit by a car.  Instead they tore down the other remaining mast arms and went backwards and replaced it them all with the primative span wires.

I have no quarrel with span wires, but to replace the more modern with them as every place else in Florida is going mast arm from the original concrete pole span wires that the Sunshine State had for several decades.