Interstate 87 (NC-VA)

[LM117]

Anyone who thinks that "87 has a chance" really doesn't understand the Eastern Shore...

This. Even if you set aside the environmental and cost factors, there's still the political aspect. Northampton County is very NIMBY*. There's no way they would ever support an interstate there.

(*Source: My dad and his people are from Northampton County.)

[goobnav]

Setting aside everything!!  I-87 would still be a lot closer to it's twin than, I-88, I-86, I-84, I-76 & I-74.

If we want to get nit picky it'll be a cold day in hell if any of them were every connected, just going by geography here people.

[tolbs17]

Setting aside everything!!  I-87 would still be a lot closer to it's twin than, I-88, I-86, I-84, I-76 & I-74.

If we want to get nit picky it'll be a cold day in hell if any of them were every connected, just going by geography here people.

Should we get rid of the duplicate interstates in the country? Because FritzOwl loves doing it... however, the advantage of the duplicate interstates that they are MILES away from each other so people wouldn't really be confused. Unless there WAS a possible connection, I doubt those interstates would be connected. I-74 was backed out from WV they don't want to build a freeway there.

[hotdogPi]

Setting aside everything!!  I-87 would still be a lot closer to it's twin than, I-88, I-86, I-84, I-76 & I-74.

If we want to get nit picky it'll be a cold day in hell if any of them were every connected, just going by geography here people.

Should we get rid of the duplicate interstates in the country? Because FritzOwl loves doing it... however, the advantage of the duplicate interstates that they are MILES away from each other so people wouldn't really be confused. Unless there WAS a possible connection, I doubt those interstates would be connected. I-74 was backed out from WV they don't want to build a freeway there.

The various segments of I-74 in North Carolina are also MILES away from each other.

[sprjus4]

Setting aside everything!!  I-87 would still be a lot closer to it's twin than, I-88, I-86, I-84, I-76 & I-74.

If we want to get nit picky it'll be a cold day in hell if any of them were every connected, just going by geography here people.

Should we get rid of the duplicate interstates in the country? Because FritzOwl loves doing it... however, the advantage of the duplicate interstates that they are MILES away from each other so people wouldn't really be confused. Unless there WAS a possible connection, I doubt those interstates would be connected. I-74 was backed out from WV they don't want to build a freeway there.

The various segments of I-74 in North Carolina are also MILES away from each other.

And easily connectable. It's not like trying to connect I-74 at Mt Airy to Ohio.

[tolbs17]

Setting aside everything!!  I-87 would still be a lot closer to it's twin than, I-88, I-86, I-84, I-76 & I-74.

If we want to get nit picky it'll be a cold day in hell if any of them were every connected, just going by geography here people.

Should we get rid of the duplicate interstates in the country? Because FritzOwl loves doing it... however, the advantage of the duplicate interstates that they are MILES away from each other so people wouldn't really be confused. Unless there WAS a possible connection, I doubt those interstates would be connected. I-74 was backed out from WV they don't want to build a freeway there.

The various segments of I-74 in North Carolina are also MILES away from each other.

Yeah, but not like over 500 miles.

[ozarkman417]

Setting aside everything!!  I-87 would still be a lot closer to it's twin than, I-88, I-86, I-84, I-76 & I-74.

If we want to get nit picky it'll be a cold day in hell if any of them were every connected, just going by geography here people.

Should we get rid of the duplicate interstates in the country? Because FritzOwl loves doing it... however, the advantage of the duplicate interstates that they are MILES away from each other so people wouldn't really be confused. Unless there WAS a possible connection, I doubt those interstates would be connected. I-74 was backed out from WV they don't want to build a freeway there.

The various segments of I-74 in North Carolina are also MILES away from each other.

Yeah, but not like over 500 miles.

The case of I-74 sounds a lot like the case of I-49- it will eventually be connected but there's a ton of small segments ATM.

[tolbs17]

Setting aside everything!!  I-87 would still be a lot closer to it's twin than, I-88, I-86, I-84, I-76 & I-74.

If we want to get nit picky it'll be a cold day in hell if any of them were every connected, just going by geography here people.

Should we get rid of the duplicate interstates in the country? Because FritzOwl loves doing it... however, the advantage of the duplicate interstates that they are MILES away from each other so people wouldn't really be confused. Unless there WAS a possible connection, I doubt those interstates would be connected. I-74 was backed out from WV they don't want to build a freeway there.

The various segments of I-74 in North Carolina are also MILES away from each other.

Yeah, but not like over 500 miles.

The case of I-74 sounds a lot like the case of I-49- it will eventually be connected but there's a ton of small segments ATM.

should have been planned well in the first place because the most significant is Charlotte to Wilmington. There's many gaps.

[vdeane]

Setting aside everything!!  I-87 would still be a lot closer to it's twin than, I-88, I-86, I-84, I-76 & I-74.

If we want to get nit picky it'll be a cold day in hell if any of them were every connected, just going by geography here people.

Should we get rid of the duplicate interstates in the country? Because FritzOwl loves doing it... however, the advantage of the duplicate interstates that they are MILES away from each other so people wouldn't really be confused. Unless there WAS a possible connection, I doubt those interstates would be connected. I-74 was backed out from WV they don't want to build a freeway there.

The various segments of I-74 in North Carolina are also MILES away from each other.

Yeah, but not like over 500 miles.

The case of I-74 sounds a lot like the case of I-49- it will eventually be connected but there's a ton of small segments ATM.

Maybe in North Carolina, but I don't see the Ohio or West Virginia segments ever being built.

[The Ghostbuster]

It will be many decades before Interstate 74 in Ohio connects with Interstate 74 in North Carolina (assuming they don't eventually give up trying to connect the two). I'm sure North Carolina's Interstate 87 will eventually be completed to Norfolk, VA. However, it will probably be built/upgraded piece-by-piece, so it might be a few decades before it is completed.

[Beltway]

I'm sure North Carolina's Interstate 87 will eventually be completed to Norfolk, VA. However, it will probably be built/upgraded piece-by-piece, so it might be a few decades before it is completed.

If it is like eastern I-86, it may not be complete even 50 years from now.

[goobnav]

I'm sure North Carolina's Interstate 87 will eventually be completed to Norfolk, VA. However, it will probably be built/upgraded piece-by-piece, so it might be a few decades before it is completed.

If it is like eastern I-86, it may not be complete even 50 years from now.

Being that NC is nothing like NY, I'll say 30 years, especially that most of it is built, so is NY 17 but, it's NY and the politicians spend more on themselves up there than down here.

[sprjus4]

I'm sure North Carolina's Interstate 87 will eventually be completed to Norfolk, VA. However, it will probably be built/upgraded piece-by-piece, so it might be a few decades before it is completed.

If it is like eastern I-86, it may not be complete even 50 years from now.

Sounds very much like VA I-73... 30 years now and not one piece of it has been built. I'd be surprised if anything begins by 2030. I'll say 30 years for NC I-87. North Carolina is more aggressive when it comes to new freeway construction unlike Virginia or New York. They've built over 600 miles of freeway in the past 40 years and are still continuing. Piece-by-piece but at least it's going.

[wdcrft63]

I'm sure North Carolina's Interstate 87 will eventually be completed to Norfolk, VA. However, it will probably be built/upgraded piece-by-piece, so it might be a few decades before it is completed.

If it is like eastern I-86, it may not be complete even 50 years from now.

20 years is a reasonable estimate.

[amroad17]

It will be many decades before Interstate 74 in Ohio connects with Interstate 74 in North Carolina (assuming they don't eventually give up trying to connect the two). I'm sure North Carolina's Interstate 87 will eventually be completed to Norfolk, VA. However, it will probably be built/upgraded piece-by-piece, so it might be a few decades before it is completed.

There is no reason for the two I-74's to connect.  From Cincinnati, it is quicker to use I-471 south-I-275 west-KY 9/AA Highway south-I-64 east-I-77 south to Bluefield, WV than it would taking the proposed routing of I-74 east out of Cincinnati.  Many people don't realize how much of a southeast-northwest trajectory I-77 takes from Charleston to Bluefield.  Also, it is the part following US 52 in WV that makes this a fairly useless route for long-distance travel.  Plus, the current roads (OH 32, US 52 in OH) are adequate for the amount of traffic currently on them.

I also have said that I-74 in NC should have been numbered I-34.  However, where there are politicians involved that do not really understand the grid system, laws on highways are passed with a route number* that isn't even in the ballpark attached to them.

*- IMHO, I-86 was a correct choice as well as I-99 (tomatoes and other produce flung this way).  I don't have an issue with I-99 being used as the grand plan is to run from Bedford, PA to Painted Post, NY (and maybe? on to Rochester).  Plus, there wasn't any other available numbers other than 67--which also would have upset many grid OCD's.  However, politicians should not be determining route numbers--the states should be submitting possible route numbers to AASHTO^ or FHWA^ for approval.

^- This is not to say that these two entities have not made a mistake or two (see I-87, NC--it should be an I-46, or an I-48, or an I-54, or an I-56, not an odd number on a route that predominantly heads more east-west than north-south).  Why it needed to have a number that is already in use in NY is beyond most of our comprehensions--other than the explanation given; that NC was a state in 1787 and the first English settlement was in Manteo in 1587.  Of course, there could be a converse to this.  Does a person in Hampton Roads believe Raleigh is west of the area or south of the area?  Think about that.  I lived in Chesapeake/Portsmouth for 22 years and always had the thought that Raleigh was south of the area--well southwest, but still I would consider I would have to drive south to get to Raleigh.

[sprjus4]

Does a person in Hampton Roads believe Raleigh is west of the area or south of the area?  Think about that.  I lived in Chesapeake/Portsmouth for 22 years and always had the thought that Raleigh was south of the area--well southwest, but still I would consider I would have to drive south to get to Raleigh.

For me, I'm the same way. Geographically, I know it's westwards, but I always consider it "south" . Same with driving to Charlotte, Atlanta, Houston, etc. Unless it's mostly due west from here, such as Asheville, Memphis, Dallas, Los Angeles, etc. I'll usually consider it "north"  or "south" .

Then again, I consider Richmond being "north"  of here, yet you still take I-64 "west" .

I personally don't have an issue with the I-87 number, though I will agree an east-west number would have fit better.

[Beltway]

If it is like eastern I-86, it may not be complete even 50 years from now.

Sounds very much like VA I-73... 30 years now and not one piece of it has been built.

30 years since when?  The NEPA EIS process was completed in 2006.  10 miles is built (I-581 and US-220 freeway in Roanoke), and another 11 miles if the US-220 Martinsville Bypass is utilized.

Again, VA I-73 is a $4 billion highway project, and this US-220 corridor was built to 4-lane arterial standards by 1980.

I'd be surprised if anything begins by 2030. I'll say 30 years for NC I-87. North Carolina is more aggressive when it comes to new freeway construction unlike Virginia or New York. They've built over 600 miles of freeway in the past 40 years and are still continuing. Piece-by-piece but at least it's going.

Different states and different systems.  Virginia was one of the early builders of a statewide system of 4-lane intra-state arterial highways with town and city bypasses to supplement the Interstate highway system, over 1,750 miles, and the principal corridors were completed back in the 1980-1990 range, such as US-29, US-58 east of I-85, US-301/VA-207 north of I-95, VA-7, US-460 Bluefield-Chesapeake, US-23, US-13 Eastern Shore, US-360, US-220 south of I-81, etc., corridors that today might be candidates for new freeways if the existing highways were still mostly 2 lanes and thru towns as in many states back then.  The need for a new freeway is non-existent or greatly lessened when a 4-lane intra-state arterial highway is already serving the corridor.

Virginia also has put a lot of focus on Interstate and freeway widening projects over the last 40 years, almost 400 miles completed, and 62 miles currently under construction, and much more to come in the future.
http://www.capital-beltway.com/VA-Freeway-Widening-Projects.xlsm
Defined as widening of a 4-lane or wider freeway.  This doesn't include the bridge-tunnels in the Norfolk area other than HRBT Expansion, as the past bridge-tunnel projects on I-264, I-664 and I-64 are defined as original Interstate highway construction, and CBBT parallel crossing is not included either.  The massive Springfield Interchange Project didn't really fit into this table either.

Many of these are not just simple widening projects of merely adding one lane each way in the median, but far more complex.

[ARMOURERERIC]

I first saw the headline in the Newport News Daily Times about the soon coming I-73 around 1994.

[Beltway]

I first saw the headline in the Newport News Daily Times about the soon coming I-73 around 1994.

That is right after the federal transportation bill ISTEA approved the general national corridor.

Individual segments need to go thru the NEPA EIS/location process to refine a corridor within a state.

[sprjus4]

The NEPA EIS process was completed in 2006.

I-73 was written into law in 1991 as apart of the ISTEA, 28 years ago.

VDOT completed a feasibility study for the corridor in March 1994, 25 years ago, 3 years after the corridor was approved.

The NEPA EIS wasn't completed however for an additional 15 years after the corridor was approved, and 12 years after the feasibility study was completed.

Similarly, I-87 was written into law in 2015 as apart of the FAST Act, and two feasibility studies have been completed for upgrading US-64 and US-17 to interstate standards in 2017 and 2018 respectively, 2-3 years after the corridor was approved. That is where it currently stands. Unlike VA I-73 though, there will not be a full NEPA EIS completed for the entire corridor, rather individual segments as they are funded. So far, no individual* segments have been fully funded for upgrade.

*non-freeway segments. The Elizabeth City Bypass has a funded upgrade project that would widen the shoulders to 10 feet in order to meet interstate standards in the early 2020s, similar to the current project underway in New Bern widening the US-70 / Future I-42 freeway shoulders to 10 feet, and one funded on US-264 / Future I-587 between I-95 and Greenville for 2020. Also, a $60 million project set to begin ~2026 would widen 7 miles of the US-64 freeway between I-87's current eastern end to the US-64 (Future I-87) / US-264 (Future I-587) split to 6-lanes, which would be built to full interstate standards.

10 miles is built (I-581 and US-220 freeway in Roanoke), and another 11 miles if the US-220 Martinsville Bypass is utilized.

Pre-existing freeways, no construction specifically for I-73. Using that argument, 27 miles of the 80 mile stretch of US-17 already have been built (11 miles Elizabeth City, 9 miles Edenton, 7 miles Windsor), and of the entire 179 mile corridor, 126 miles (99 miles US-64, 27 miles US-17) of the 179 mile stretch have already been built, approximately 70% of the corridor.

[bob7374]

NCDOT has released its final 2020-2029 STIP, approved today by the NC Transportation Board, press release:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-09-stip-plan-2020.aspx

The only bad news I can find so far is that the planned upgrade of US 64/264 from Wendell to their split in Knightdale that was supposed to start in 2025, has been pushed back to 2029.

[tolbs17]

NCDOT has released its final 2020-2029 STIP, approved today by the NC Transportation Board, press release:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-09-stip-plan-2020.aspx

The only bad news I can find so far is that the planned upgrade of US 64/264 from Wendell to their split in Knightdale that was supposed to start in 2025, has been pushed back to 2029.

That's a bad stretch. Widening highways and waiting for stuff to happen takes wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too long.

[sprjus4]

NCDOT has released its final 2020-2029 STIP, approved today by the NC Transportation Board, press release:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-09-stip-plan-2020.aspx

The only bad news I can find so far is that the planned upgrade of US 64/264 from Wendell to their split in Knightdale that was supposed to start in 2025, has been pushed back to 2029.

That's a bad stretch. Widening highways and waiting for stuff to happen takes wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too long.

Reminds me of I-64 between Hampton Roads and Richmond widening to 6 lanes. Still nearly 30 miles unfunded. The lowest AADT is 60,000 and higher in other areas.

[Beltway]

10 miles is built (I-581 and US-220 freeway in Roanoke), and another 11 miles if the US-220 Martinsville Bypass is utilized.

Pre-existing freeways, no construction specifically for I-73. Using that argument, 27 miles

You are the one who claimed "not one piece of it has been built", I was merely replying to that. 

The 10.3 mile segment in Roanoke is 6.8 miles of Interstate highway and 3.5 miles of Interstate designatable highway.  It could be I-73 today and that is the approved location.

The 11 miles of US-220 Martinsville Bypass being utilized would depend on revising the approved alternate, which supposedly the city and county governments want.  It would need shoulder improvements to use as an Interstate highway.

There is also the US-220 Ridgway Bypass and the US-220 Rocky Mount Bypass, which some states with modest improvements would use as an Interstate segment, but none of the I-73 proposals so far have included them.

[sprjus4]

There is also the US-220 Ridgway Bypass and the US-220 Rocky Mount Bypass, which some states with modest improvements would use as an Interstate segment, but none of the I-73 proposals so far have included them.

The one option for the Martinsville Southern Connector did evaluate upgrading the existing US-220 entirely between US-58 and North Carolina, which would have included the Ridgeway Bypass, however that option was eliminated from further study due to the major impacts it would cause along the rest of the corridor.

The Rocky Mount Bypass could be utilized, though some upgrades would definitely be needed, including...

- The 20 ft median would likely have to be replaced with a paved median & a jersey barrier (7-9 ft left paved shoulder, 2-4 ft jersey barrier) either that or add 4 foot paved left shoulders and have 12 ft of grass.
- The US-220 southbound bridge over the Pigg River would need to be replaced
- The US-220 / VA-40 interchange would need an overhaul, with at least the US-220 southbound bridge over VA-40 being replaced.
- The north end & south end interchanges would need some upgrades, though because of the remainder of I-73 being on mostly new location and tying in at these points, they'd have to be completely redesigned anyways.
- Most, if not all of the bridges crossing over US-220 would need to be replaced.
- Finally, you'd need to widen the shoulders on the mainline to 10 ft to the outside.