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Author Topic: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)  (Read 12547 times)

kalvado

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2017, 05:37:55 PM »

Apparently NH is considering it too, but only if Mass goes through with it..

http://www.concordmonitor.com/time-zone-Atlantic-bill-7545169
Maine should follow if NH and MA change, probably RI as well. VT probably would stay with NY, but can be either way. CT, until willing to split like IN does, is too much tied to NYC.
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vdeane

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2017, 05:44:26 PM »

Yeah, it would be silly for MA and NH to be an island in a different time zone.
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ET21

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2017, 05:55:47 PM »

All I know is I lose an hour of sleep  :-(
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kkt

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2017, 06:08:03 PM »

It would suck for western Mass. 
They might consider splitting the state, with Boston to Worcester in Atlantic, accompanied by Maine, N.H., and R.I.
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1995hoo

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #54 on: March 07, 2017, 07:07:10 PM »

If the normal schedule was 9 - 5, then why are the roads jammed with traffic before 5pm?
I think it's people who offset their schedule backwards to "beat the traffic".

There are also plenty of people who work longer hours than what is usually considered a "normal" schedule. I used to work 7:30 to 7:00 most days.
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kphoger

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2017, 10:17:33 AM »

I'm not sure I know a single person who works 9 to 5.
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kphoger

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2017, 10:18:22 AM »

All I know is I lose an hour of sleep  :-(

That's because you choose to not lose an hour of being awake instead.   :sleep:
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Road Hog

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2017, 12:47:29 PM »

Every two years when the Texas Legislature reconvenes, somebody files a bill either to opt Texas out of DST or to make DST year round. And every two years the bill goes down in flames.

The proposal this time would end DST but would bring El Paso into the Central time zone, which solves a problem the last bill had: a tiny sliver of PDT next to CST. But I foresee a similar fate to this bill.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article136827253.html

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wxfree

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2017, 12:59:12 PM »

Every two years when the Texas Legislature reconvenes, somebody files a bill either to opt Texas out of DST or to make DST year round. And every two years the bill goes down in flames.

The proposal this time would end DST but would bring El Paso into the Central time zone, which solves a problem the last bill had: a tiny sliver of PDT next to CST. But I foresee a similar fate to this bill.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article136827253.html

The legislator would also like to unify the state into one time zone according to the article, but his bill wouldn't do that.  The bill would only eliminate DST.  The bill has not yet been through committee and could be amended.  This is the introduced version: http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/85R/billtext/html/HB02400I.htm  The change made by the senate bill is exactly the same.
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kphoger

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #59 on: March 08, 2017, 12:59:54 PM »

The proposal this time would end DST but would bring El Paso into the Central time zone

I find that rather ironic for two reasons:

(1) The whole state of Chihuahua switched from Central Time to Mountain Time in 1998, and one of the two reasons was so Juárez would be in the same time zone as El Paso.  If this bill were to pass, they would again be in different time zones.

(2) After much debate, cities within the border zone in México began in 2010 to observe the same extended DST period as the USA.  If this bill were to pass, the largest of those border cities would again have DST issues with its sister city to the north.
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DTComposer

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #60 on: March 08, 2017, 01:42:59 PM »

The change back does happen too late in the year, even in Europe, and even later in the US and Canada.  It should be dark during trick or treating.  If that's too scary, maybe you should keep your elementary school kids inside watching "It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown" instead of trick or treating.  I'd put it at the beginning of October.

I don't disagree with this, but I wonder if more light during trick-or-treating hours encourages more younger children (or their parents) to participate, and discourages older kids (i.e. more about making mischief) from participating? In the neighborhood where I grew up (which is where my parents still are and where we take our son trick-or-treating) I've noticed a significant drop in the amount of teenagers "trick-or-treating" since DST was extended into November. I recognize that is a tiny sample size, though.
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kphoger

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2017, 01:51:20 PM »

I make darned sure to wait till after dark before going trick-or-treating with my kids.  Because that's when you're supposed to go trick-or-treating, doggone it!  If I lived in a place that restricted trick-or-treating to daylight hours (like Des Moines), I might have to move.
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kkt

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #62 on: March 08, 2017, 02:13:30 PM »

I make darned sure to wait till after dark before going trick-or-treating with my kids.  Because that's when you're supposed to go trick-or-treating, doggone it!  If I lived in a place that restricted trick-or-treating to daylight hours (like Des Moines), I might have to move.

Agreed!  Well, I wouldn't move just because of that.  But, yes, it's supposed to be dark.

The change back does happen too late in the year, even in Europe, and even later in the US and Canada.  It should be dark during trick or treating.  If that's too scary, maybe you should keep your elementary school kids inside watching "It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown" instead of trick or treating.  I'd put it at the beginning of October.

I don't disagree with this, but I wonder if more light during trick-or-treating hours encourages more younger children (or their parents) to participate, and discourages older kids (i.e. more about making mischief) from participating? In the neighborhood where I grew up (which is where my parents still are and where we take our son trick-or-treating) I've noticed a significant drop in the amount of teenagers "trick-or-treating" since DST was extended into November. I recognize that is a tiny sample size, though.

Fewer teenagers participate, but I don't think daylight is the reason.  I'd attribute it to (in no particular order):  Lots of homework, no time to make costumes.  Parents don't feel like making costumes for teens, and teens wouldn't want them if they did.  Would rather go to a party with other teens than trick or treating.  Those teens here who do go trick-or-treating start after 6:00, by which time it's pretty dark. Neighborhood business districts here offer trick-or-treating for younger kids from about 3:00-5:00.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2017, 02:47:47 PM »

The proposal this time would end DST but would bring El Paso into the Central time zone

I find that rather ironic for two reasons:

(1) The whole state of Chihuahua switched from Central Time to Mountain Time in 1998, and one of the two reasons was so Juárez would be in the same time zone as El Paso.  If this bill were to pass, they would again be in different time zones.

(2) After much debate, cities within the border zone in México began in 2010 to observe the same extended DST period as the USA.  If this bill were to pass, the largest of those border cities would again have DST issues with its sister city to the north.

Not to forget that Las Cruces would be still on mountain time and a lot of people commute to El Paso or vice versa.  Really that part of Texas has much more in common with New Mexico than it does the rest of Texas, so why change?
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1995hoo

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2017, 09:41:46 PM »

North America and Europe did change the clocks on the same days at one time.  It was the United States which changed the dates.

Actually, spring forward in Europe is a week earlier than it used to be in the United States (last Sunday in March, vs. first Sunday in April as it once was in the US).

Don't forget the "first Sunday in April" was a recent change in the US. It used to be the last Sunday in April to the last Sunday in October. The Reagan Administration successfully pushed to move it to the first Sunday in April. I believe that started in 1987.
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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2017, 09:49:14 PM »

I like DST, though I think it could start later and finish earlier. I usually wake up at 6:55am for school/co-op, and right now, the sunrises at 6:45am which is nice. However, once DST starts this weekend, sunrise will be pushed back to around 7:40am. It's kind of sad waking up in the morning when its still dark out :/
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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2017, 09:58:38 PM »

Back when the states controlled DST, it end on the last Sunday in September in the Northeast.  In other areas it ended as early as Labor Day weekend.
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kphoger

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2017, 10:17:38 AM »

I like DST, though I think it could start later and finish earlier. I usually wake up at 6:55am for school/co-op, and right now, the sunrises at 6:45am which is nice. However, once DST starts this weekend, sunrise will be pushed back to around 7:40am. It's kind of sad waking up in the morning when its still dark out :/

Dark waking is my main issue with DST.
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kalvado

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #68 on: March 09, 2017, 10:43:39 AM »

I like DST, though I think it could start later and finish earlier. I usually wake up at 6:55am for school/co-op, and right now, the sunrises at 6:45am which is nice. However, once DST starts this weekend, sunrise will be pushed back to around 7:40am. It's kind of sad waking up in the morning when its still dark out :/

Dark waking is my main issue with DST.
I am using a brilliant novel discovery to combat that. It is called "light bulb". Price is pretty steep, $1-2 a piece - but they can really do some wonders with illumination. You should save a bit and try one yourself. It really changes night into day!
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kkt

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2017, 10:59:21 AM »

I like DST, though I think it could start later and finish earlier. I usually wake up at 6:55am for school/co-op, and right now, the sunrises at 6:45am which is nice. However, once DST starts this weekend, sunrise will be pushed back to around 7:40am. It's kind of sad waking up in the morning when its still dark out :/

Dark waking is my main issue with DST.
I am using a brilliant novel discovery to combat that. It is called "light bulb". Price is pretty steep, $1-2 a piece - but they can really do some wonders with illumination. You should save a bit and try one yourself. It really changes night into day!

 :rolleyes:

Electric light is nowhere near as effective as sunlight at waking people.  Seattle doesn't get the return to dark waking after DST starts, but we get it for about 6 weeks in winter (depending on what time you need to get up).  It's a hard time of year.
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #70 on: March 09, 2017, 11:46:37 AM »

I make darned sure to wait till after dark before going trick-or-treating with my kids.  Because that's when you're supposed to go trick-or-treating, doggone it!  If I lived in a place that restricted trick-or-treating to daylight hours (like Des Moines), I might have to move.

As someone who grew up in Minnesota, where things are more or less normal, things here in Des Moines are whack. Yet all the natives I know act like the strange stuff is normal. I just laugh. I still don't understand the point of moving trick-or-treating to the day before, on the 30th.
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michravera

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #71 on: March 09, 2017, 12:04:17 PM »

Rabble rabble let's go to DST this year and never revert rabble rabble I hate when it gets dark early rabble rabble farmers can suck it

Switching to DST all-year is silly.  Just get rid of DST altogether.  If our schedules don't line up with standard time, then our schedules are out of whack, not our clocks.

That is a preposterous twisting of logic - what hours are assigned to the clock is just as much an arbitrary social construct as people's clock preferences.

No, 12:00 PM is supposed to be midday and 12:00 AM is supposed to be midnight.

Before clocks, people naturally did most of their activities between sunup and sundown, so we developed clocks accordingly, with 12:00 right up at the top.  Now people complain they don't have enough daylight in the evenings, yet someone who works a normal shift (7-to-4 or 8-to-5) should have approximately the same amount of daylight before work as after work.  If we as a society have made room in our daily schedules to allow for a bunch of leisure time and want to take it during daylight hours after work, then we should go to work earlier to make that time available to us—not redefine what noon and midnight are.

Most people I know prefer to wake up - go to work - come back - relax.
So work starting 2 hour after sunrise fits best for them. Now the problem is that sun doesn't cooperate and refuses to go up at 7 AM for entire year.
And it looks like our mid-day is closer to end of typical business hours. So probably having astronomic noon somewhere after lunch break, 1.30-2 PM, would be a good option for many - just to keep astronomic noon somewhere close to actual mid-day.
Unfortunately, that means morning commute in the dark for 2-3-4 winter months...
If a company wants to run its business day from 4AM until noon by solar time because they think that this serves its (and its customer) interests the best, that is what they should do. We should leave the clocks alone and return to time zones that approximate mean solar time for the reference meridian (and no area should be more than 45 minutes ahead or behind the same).

If you want leisure time with the sun up after work, arrange to start work at or before sunrise (or to be allowed to work from home later in the evening). If your employer is inflexible (because they think that they need staff at particular times), offer to trade off with someone who has the opposite preferences some of the year. Some people like to get up early, go for a run or a swim and hang out.

We could fix a lot of things, if the market and people's preferences were to be respected.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #72 on: March 09, 2017, 12:14:37 PM »

Back when the states controlled DST, it end on the last Sunday in September in the Northeast.  In other areas it ended as early as Labor Day weekend.

States controlled DST?  I always thought that was a country-wide thing.  How would one know when they went from one state to another North & South what time it was?
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kkt

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #73 on: March 09, 2017, 12:29:41 PM »

Back when the states controlled DST, it end on the last Sunday in September in the Northeast.  In other areas it ended as early as Labor Day weekend.

States controlled DST?  I always thought that was a country-wide thing.  How would one know when they went from one state to another North & South what time it was?

You have discovered why it stopped being a state-by-state thing :)

Often there would be signs posted at state borders.
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kalvado

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #74 on: March 09, 2017, 12:37:03 PM »

Back when the states controlled DST, it end on the last Sunday in September in the Northeast.  In other areas it ended as early as Labor Day weekend.

States controlled DST?  I always thought that was a country-wide thing.  How would one know when they went from one state to another North & South what time it was?
It  is fairly common that once your flight lands there is an announcement along the lines of "Welcome to XXX, local time is..., temperature outside.... ". ANd these days your cell phone would take care of the issue by itself.
Usually that helps (but once upon a time I got screwed up flying to ORD and driving to Indiana...)
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