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Author Topic: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)  (Read 12493 times)

CNGL-Leudimin

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The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« on: March 06, 2017, 07:13:44 AM »

It's about the time of the year DST begins, and so here is the yearly thread about it. As we know, two states have opted out of it: Arizona (except for the Navajo nation) and Hawaii, and I consider some arrangements to account for that.
Arizona has Mountain time as its standard. However, for one hour a year, I consider they are in its own time zone (as no other parts of the USA are in it), which I call Arizona time. This time zone lasts from when the Mountain time zone moves into DST until the Pacific one does so, at which point Arizona joins Pacific time. I do the same for my timekeeping purposes within this forum (I move from Eastern to my own zone at UTC-5 for a hour, then to Central; though I do observe DST starting at the end of March with the rest of Europe, and thus reverting to Eastern).
Hawaii shares its time zone with the Aleutians, which do observe DST. Thus, once DST starts, I consider the Hawaii-Aleutian time zone to split into separate Hawaii and Aleutian time zones.

Also, I've heard at least one member call this the "Daylight Wasting Time". Nice one :sombrero:.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2017, 08:06:56 AM »

Why are we starting up a new thread on this?
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Rothman

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2017, 09:13:26 AM »

Tradition!
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kphoger

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2017, 11:01:19 AM »

Also, I've heard at least one member call this the "Daylight Wasting Time". Nice one :sombrero:.

I call it Daylight Stupid Time.
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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2017, 11:23:31 AM »

Rabble rabble let's go to DST this year and never revert rabble rabble I hate when it gets dark early rabble rabble farmers can suck it

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2017, 11:26:18 AM »

Rabble rabble let's go to DST this year and never revert rabble rabble I hate when it gets dark early rabble rabble farmers can suck it

Switching to DST all-year is silly.  Just get rid of DST altogether.  If our schedules don't line up with standard time, then our schedules are out of whack, not our clocks.
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hbelkins

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2017, 11:40:30 AM »

Looking forward to this weekend. More light in the evenings when I get home. Now if it will just stay dry for a few weeks, I can get some things done outside that I need to do before everything leafs out and greens up.
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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2017, 11:50:08 AM »

Rabble rabble let's go to DST this year and never revert rabble rabble I hate when it gets dark early rabble rabble farmers can suck it

Switching to DST all-year is silly.  Just get rid of DST altogether.  If our schedules don't line up with standard time, then our schedules are out of whack, not our clocks.

That is a preposterous twisting of logic - what hours are assigned to the clock is just as much an arbitrary social construct as people's clock preferences.

kphoger

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2017, 12:01:30 PM »

Rabble rabble let's go to DST this year and never revert rabble rabble I hate when it gets dark early rabble rabble farmers can suck it

Switching to DST all-year is silly.  Just get rid of DST altogether.  If our schedules don't line up with standard time, then our schedules are out of whack, not our clocks.

That is a preposterous twisting of logic - what hours are assigned to the clock is just as much an arbitrary social construct as people's clock preferences.

No, 12:00 PM is supposed to be midday and 12:00 AM is supposed to be midnight.

Before clocks, people naturally did most of their activities between sunup and sundown, so we developed clocks accordingly, with 12:00 right up at the top.  Now people complain they don't have enough daylight in the evenings, yet someone who works a normal shift (7-to-4 or 8-to-5) should have approximately the same amount of daylight before work as after work.  If we as a society have made room in our daily schedules to allow for a bunch of leisure time and want to take it during daylight hours after work, then we should go to work earlier to make that time available to us—not redefine what noon and midnight are.
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kalvado

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2017, 02:16:50 PM »

Rabble rabble let's go to DST this year and never revert rabble rabble I hate when it gets dark early rabble rabble farmers can suck it

Switching to DST all-year is silly.  Just get rid of DST altogether.  If our schedules don't line up with standard time, then our schedules are out of whack, not our clocks.

That is a preposterous twisting of logic - what hours are assigned to the clock is just as much an arbitrary social construct as people's clock preferences.

No, 12:00 PM is supposed to be midday and 12:00 AM is supposed to be midnight.

Before clocks, people naturally did most of their activities between sunup and sundown, so we developed clocks accordingly, with 12:00 right up at the top.  Now people complain they don't have enough daylight in the evenings, yet someone who works a normal shift (7-to-4 or 8-to-5) should have approximately the same amount of daylight before work as after work.  If we as a society have made room in our daily schedules to allow for a bunch of leisure time and want to take it during daylight hours after work, then we should go to work earlier to make that time available to us—not redefine what noon and midnight are.

Most people I know prefer to wake up - go to work - come back - relax.
So work starting 2 hour after sunrise fits best for them. Now the problem is that sun doesn't cooperate and refuses to go up at 7 AM for entire year.
And it looks like our mid-day is closer to end of typical business hours. So probably having astronomic noon somewhere after lunch break, 1.30-2 PM, would be a good option for many - just to keep astronomic noon somewhere close to actual mid-day.
Unfortunately, that means morning commute in the dark for 2-3-4 winter months...
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SignGeek101

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2017, 02:20:09 PM »

I am actually a strong supporter of DST, especially in my latitude. I can see how those who live closer to the equator would find it nonsensible though.

Brandon

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2017, 02:28:55 PM »

Rabble rabble let's go to DST this year and never revert rabble rabble I hate when it gets dark early rabble rabble farmers can suck it

Switching to DST all-year is silly.  Just get rid of DST altogether.  If our schedules don't line up with standard time, then our schedules are out of whack, not our clocks.

That is a preposterous twisting of logic - what hours are assigned to the clock is just as much an arbitrary social construct as people's clock preferences.

Cool, then we can go back to setting noon by whatever time the sun it at its highest in the sky while watching trains ram each other head-on.
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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2017, 02:38:05 PM »

Rabble rabble let's go to DST this year and never revert rabble rabble I hate when it gets dark early rabble rabble farmers can suck it

Switching to DST all-year is silly.  Just get rid of DST altogether.  If our schedules don't line up with standard time, then our schedules are out of whack, not our clocks.

That is a preposterous twisting of logic - what hours are assigned to the clock is just as much an arbitrary social construct as people's clock preferences.

Cool, then we can go back to setting noon by whatever time the sun it at its highest in the sky while watching trains ram each other head-on.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have clocks, just that there is no non-social reason midday has to be 12:00 instead of 1:00

SP Cook

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2017, 02:57:22 PM »


Switching to DST all-year is silly.  Just get rid of DST altogether.  If our schedules don't line up with standard time, then our schedules are out of whack, not our clocks.

Exactly.  DST, and the different on and off times for it around the world, makes a complexity out of what should be a simple calculation.  Not to mention the difficulties it makes with transportation going on when the hour is either repeated or skipped, making planes, trains and buses either early or late automatically.  And it also complicates the payroll for businesses with hourly workers on the late shift. 

Just do away with it and if you want "more" time off during daylight hours, find a job that starts earliier and lets out earlier. 

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2017, 03:00:33 PM »

Why are we starting up a new thread on this?

Because it bips.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2017, 04:03:22 PM »

Looking forward to finishing my morning runs before sunrise again.  Right now sunrise is a 6:21 AM.  I usually start out at 5:15 AM and get back 6:55-7:00 AM.  I've been getting headaches from looking straight into the sun for the last couple miles....worse it's encouraging the walkers to come out early too. 

With that in mind I would greatly prefer staying sprung ahead all year. I find the sunlight much more useful later in the day then in the morning in the winter.  Darkness kind of discourages people from traveling I've observed over the years making it much easier for me to get around given I get up so early. 
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 04:05:45 PM by Max Rockatansky »
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CNGL-Leudimin

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2017, 04:12:04 PM »

Switching to DST all-year is silly.  Just get rid of DST altogether.  If our schedules don't line up with standard time, then our schedules are out of whack, not our clocks.

I agree. Spain is technically in DST all year round (Even in double DST for seven months), as we are in Central Europe time zone but we should be in the Western Europe one (CET is UTC+1, and I live sightly West of Greenwhich). And of course, our schedules are silly, we go to sleep near midnight for example.
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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2017, 05:14:39 PM »

On another forum I'm on, we have a pretty nonsensical thread that it's become tradition to bump every New Year's at midnight.  Maybe this should be such a thread.
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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2017, 06:01:25 PM »

Rabble rabble let's go to DST this year and never revert rabble rabble I hate when it gets dark early rabble rabble farmers can suck it

Switching to DST all-year is silly.  Just get rid of DST altogether.  If our schedules don't line up with standard time, then our schedules are out of whack, not our clocks.

That is a preposterous twisting of logic - what hours are assigned to the clock is just as much an arbitrary social construct as people's clock preferences.

No, 12:00 PM is supposed to be midday and 12:00 AM is supposed to be midnight.

Before clocks, people naturally did most of their activities between sunup and sundown, so we developed clocks accordingly, with 12:00 right up at the top.  Now people complain they don't have enough daylight in the evenings, yet someone who works a normal shift (7-to-4 or 8-to-5) should have approximately the same amount of daylight before work as after work.  If we as a society have made room in our daily schedules to allow for a bunch of leisure time and want to take it during daylight hours after work, then we should go to work earlier to make that time available to us—not redefine what noon and midnight are.

Most people I know prefer to wake up - go to work - come back - relax.
So work starting 2 hour after sunrise fits best for them. Now the problem is that sun doesn't cooperate and refuses to go up at 7 AM for entire year.
And it looks like our mid-day is closer to end of typical business hours. So probably having astronomic noon somewhere after lunch break, 1.30-2 PM, would be a good option for many - just to keep astronomic noon somewhere close to actual mid-day.
Unfortunately, that means morning commute in the dark for 2-3-4 winter months...
I don't know that many people who start at 9.  6 AM sunrise would be perfect, though.  It's so hard to wake up in the half/majority of the year when it's later.
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Duke87

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2017, 08:18:16 PM »

someone who works a normal shift (7-to-4 or 8-to-5) should have approximately the same amount of daylight before work as after work.

Your definition of a "normal shift" intrigues me. My office is nominally 9 to 5 and that is what I've always understood to be the standard. Dolly Parton seems to concur as well.

But yes, not every office does the same. Government offices often operate 8 to 4, and construction typically operates 7 to 3.

Switching to DST all-year is silly.  Just get rid of DST altogether.  If our schedules don't line up with standard time, then our schedules are out of whack, not our clocks.
That is a preposterous twisting of logic - what hours are assigned to the clock is just as much an arbitrary social construct as people's clock preferences.

Unfortunately people have a tendency to assign more significance to the numbers on the clock than they actually have and set expectations accordingly. Agreeing to start work an hour earlier from Mid-March through early November is mathematically equivalent to setting the clocks forward, but the latter is easier for people to handle psychologically because we're socially conditioned to react to what the clock says.

What's more absurd than this, though, is the inconsistency of people's social conditioning on different matters. What is everyone's obsession with staying out late on Friday and Saturday nights? It only makes Monday morning that much worse and it accomplishes nothing that could not also be accomplished by simply starting the party earlier. I would much rather wake up and go to bed at the same times seven days a week, since this is the best way to remain the most well rested, but I can't because social demands are often placed on me that I stay up past my "bedtime" on weekends.
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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2017, 08:40:08 PM »

As an IT guy, I don't care as long as it's consistent.  Looking at you Chile.
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SSOWorld

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2017, 11:14:50 PM »

oh lets see - too far east? KEEP IT!!! further west? DROP IT!!!
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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2017, 11:25:28 PM »

Looking forward to finishing my morning runs before sunrise again.  Right now sunrise is a 6:21 AM.  I usually start out at 5:15 AM and get back 6:55-7:00 AM.  I've been getting headaches from looking straight into the sun for the last couple miles....worse it's encouraging the walkers to come out early too. 

With that in mind I would greatly prefer staying sprung ahead all year. I find the sunlight much more useful later in the day then in the morning in the winter.  Darkness kind of discourages people from traveling I've observed over the years making it much easier for me to get around given I get up so early. 

If DST were to ever be dropped, it would be better where I am to have it sprung ahead all year. Doesn't get dark here in the summer until 9-9:30 with DST.

That, or you could have a compromise with people who want "winter time" all year round of having the clocks 30 min later   :bigass:

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2017, 12:41:13 AM »

Rabble rabble let's go to DST this year and never revert rabble rabble I hate when it gets dark early rabble rabble farmers can suck it

Switching to DST all-year is silly.  Just get rid of DST altogether.  If our schedules don't line up with standard time, then our schedules are out of whack, not our clocks.

That is a preposterous twisting of logic - what hours are assigned to the clock is just as much an arbitrary social construct as people's clock preferences.

No, 12:00 PM is supposed to be midday and 12:00 AM is supposed to be midnight.

Before clocks, people naturally did most of their activities between sunup and sundown, so we developed clocks accordingly, with 12:00 right up at the top.  Now people complain they don't have enough daylight in the evenings, yet someone who works a normal shift (7-to-4 or 8-to-5) should have approximately the same amount of daylight before work as after work.  If we as a society have made room in our daily schedules to allow for a bunch of leisure time and want to take it during daylight hours after work, then we should go to work earlier to make that time available to us—not redefine what noon and midnight are.

Actually, before clocks people got up when it got light enough to see what they were doing.  Kind of like we do by shifting the clocks an hour later.
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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2017, 04:52:19 AM »

The obvious solution is to eliminate nighttime altogether. Then everyone will be happy.
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