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Author Topic: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error  (Read 2878 times)

roadman65

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Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« on: April 14, 2017, 12:28:22 PM »

https://cdllife.com/2017/top-trucking-news/trucker-collapsed-historic-bridge-gets-jail-time/

Now I am worried cause if this happened and truckers use that blasted GPS as well, another bridge will be like this one.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2017, 12:40:36 PM »

I remember when this happened, here is a GSV image showing it had a 6 ton limit and a ban on trucks:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5547862,-86.4684478,3a,75y,173.1h,80.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHj-eyDlUaeBpZx3_f2FStA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Not that hazard should have been obvious by the actual height of the frame of the bridge...  :eyebrow:  That's a damn shame that something from 1880 had to go like that. 

vdeane

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2017, 01:35:53 PM »

There is a circle just before the bridge; why didn't the truck turn around there?
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DeaconG

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2017, 10:31:04 AM »

That's...I don't...what the...

 :confused: :wow: :crazy:

Coherent thought fail...
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2017, 10:40:48 AM »

There is a circle just before the bridge; why didn't the truck turn around there?

Not only that but Water Street is nice and wide to boot.  Edit:  Actually the picture shows the truck heading northbound towards downtown which is south of Water Street and the US 150 traffic circle.  Apparently the ruined bridge was still there as of December last year:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.555079,-86.4684928,3a,30y,181.76h,81.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgeNFnX2sHtHd4qtX7X8wrQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Now I'm curious to find out what Paoli plans to replace this bridge with or even replacing it at all? 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 02:25:52 PM by Max Rockatansky »
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roadman65

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2017, 11:52:49 AM »

Well at least the judge gave her time to think about what to do.

One of the users who used to be on here posted it to his facebook yesterday, and being that we have been talking in other threads about stuff like a truck going on the Merrit Parkway in CT and not being able to fit beneath a low overpass because the driver followed a GPS for giving out directions to an automobile user, I thought this was interesting.  It shows just how ignorant truck drivers are nowadays as our society evolved so much in ignorance of our surroundings.
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empirestate

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2017, 01:31:33 PM »

Mini side-rant: One of the comments asks why someone would even attempt this, since "common sense" suggests that one wouldn't. No, common sense wouldn't suggest that—education would. Common sense doesn't tell you how many pounds are in a ton, you need to be taught that.
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renegade

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2017, 02:21:21 PM »

The driver "... told police that she saw signage about the bridge’s maximum 6 ton weight limit, but that she was not sure how many pounds made up 6 tons."

 :confused:

This person should never have been behind the wheel of a vehicle loaded with 21-1/2 tons of anything.  I don't think she should ever be allowed behind the wheel of anything, ever again.

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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2017, 02:31:01 PM »

The driver "... told police that she saw signage about the bridge’s maximum 6 ton weight limit, but that she was not sure how many pounds made up 6 tons."

 :confused:

This person should never have been behind the wheel of a vehicle loaded with 21-1/2 tons of anything.  I don't think she should ever be allowed behind the wheel of anything, ever again.

Sounds like getting a CDL is mighty easy these days.  One would assume you have to know what weight measurements are...

Brian556

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2017, 02:34:51 PM »

I used to have a CDL

CDL education materials aren't worth a f*** concerning weight. They do not teach you how to do conversions or understand all the different ways weight limits are signed.

I think they should pick one unit of measurement for weight limit signs and stick with it. Its too confusing using different units of measurement, as well as all axles vs the weight on just one. How the f*** are you supposed to know that?

Yes, a lot of truck drivers have lower IQ's than the American average, but the way things are signed and designed is part of the problem also
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jakeroot

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2017, 02:50:00 PM »

One of the users who used to be on here posted it to his facebook yesterday, and being that we have been talking in other threads about stuff like a truck going on the Merrit Parkway in CT and not being able to fit beneath a low overpass because the driver followed a GPS for giving out directions to an automobile user, I thought this was interesting.  It shows just how ignorant truck drivers are nowadays as our society evolved so much in ignorance of our surroundings.
Now I am worried cause if this happened and truckers use that blasted GPS as well, another bridge will be like this one.

Why do you keep bringing up GPSs? There's no evidence to suggest she was using one. She missed her exit, which is probably more likely without a GPS. She also missed the "no trucks" sign but she did see the more relevant "6 tons" weight limit sign immediately next to it.

Paoli's historic bridge would likely be here today if the signage was better. You don't post "no trucks" signage ten feet before the bridge. Trucks can't turn around very easily on narrow roads. You also don't forego posting clearance signage. Even if the weight limit is more important, it still played a small role here.

She still deserves what she got based on the fact that she intentionally ignored signage (instead of backing up, she continued over the bridge), but the situation could have easily been avoided if proper signage was posted.

There is a circle just before the bridge; why didn't the truck turn around there?

Even if she had been approaching from that direction, there's no way to tell that Gospel Street has a narrow historic bridge two blocks away.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2017, 03:08:19 PM »

Turns out the "Gospel Street Bridge" is actually being repaired and put back in place:

http://www.wdrb.com/story/33039509/crews-to-begin-repairing-historic-bridge-in-paoli

Supposedly the bridge was supposed to reopen some time around now and would get height clearance bars.  The truck driver looks like a little kid...
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 03:11:30 PM by Max Rockatansky »
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vdeane

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2017, 09:27:32 PM »

Given that the only WalMart in town is well north of both the bridge and downtown, she could have absolutely used the circle to turn since she had to have gone by that way to get south of the bridge, assuming her story of missing a turn and trying to turn around is correct; I wonder if she tried to take a shortcut down Gospel Street but didn't want to admit to intentionally going down that road?  She also says she doesn't know how to back the truck up, which says she shouldn't have even gotten the CDL in the first place.  How do you drive a vehicle without knowing how to back it up?  How did she expect to get the trailer into a loading bay?
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2017, 09:37:51 PM »

Given that the only WalMart in town is well north of both the bridge and downtown, she could have absolutely used the circle to turn since she had to have gone by that way to get south of the bridge, assuming her story of missing a turn and trying to turn around is correct; I wonder if she tried to take a shortcut down Gospel Street but didn't want to admit to intentionally going down that road?  She also says she doesn't know how to back the truck up, which says she shouldn't have even gotten the CDL in the first place.  How do you drive a vehicle without knowing how to back it up?  How did she expect to get the trailer into a loading bay?

That's the thing, she approached the bridge actually heading north...took me a couple looks at the articles to realize it myself.  Gospel Street south of the bridge is substantially much more narrow and would require likely backing up all the way to Indiana 37. 

vdeane

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2017, 09:58:26 PM »

But she would have had to have crossed the river with the other bridge first to turn onto Gospel Street NB to get to the bridge, which would have at least gone near the circle - assuming her story is true.  The more I think about it, the more and more I think she lied through her teeth to try to play dumb when in actuality she was recklessly operating a truck on roads she knew full well couldn't handle it.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2017, 10:14:50 PM »

But she would have had to have crossed the river with the other bridge first to turn onto Gospel Street NB to get to the bridge, which would have at least gone near the circle - assuming her story is true.  The more I think about it, the more and more I think she lied through her teeth to try to play dumb when in actuality she was recklessly operating a truck on roads she knew full well couldn't handle it.

Best I can figure was that she somehow ended up getting off US 150 and headed south in IN 37, the article really doesn't paint a clear picture on how that would have happened.  Anyways, if she had ended up some how heading west into the neighborhoods there was a chance the driver could have ended up on Elm Street which has a much more modern bridge structure.  Regardless the story is pretty flimsy or at the very least murky. 

One thing that is odd is that giant roundabout in downtown Paoli.  That's a pretty strange configuration with the road literally circling the courthouse...actually kind of neat IMO.

kphoger

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2017, 05:48:12 PM »

One thing that is odd is that giant roundabout in downtown Paoli.  That's a pretty strange configuration with the road literally circling the courthouse...actually kind of neat IMO.

Those are fairly common in some parts of the country, and I've seen them referred to as "town squares" rather than traffic circles.  When I lived in southern Illinois, most people just called them "squares."  The one in Benton, Illinois, has constant, heavy traffic, and can be quite the headache.  I once had to drive through Benton while an accident on the Interstate had all northbound I-57 traffic diverted onto IL-37 through the town square.  Yeeck!
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kphoger

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2017, 06:11:37 PM »

But she would have had to have crossed the river with the other bridge first to turn onto Gospel Street NB to get to the bridge, which would have at least gone near the circle - assuming her story is true.  The more I think about it, the more and more I think she lied through her teeth to try to play dumb when in actuality she was recklessly operating a truck on roads she knew full well couldn't handle it.

Best I can figure was that she somehow ended up getting off US 150 and headed south in IN 37, the article really doesn't paint a clear picture on how that would have happened.  Anyways, if she had ended up some how heading west into the neighborhoods there was a chance the driver could have ended up on Elm Street which has a much more modern bridge structure.  Regardless the story is pretty flimsy or at the very least murky. 

Not a clear picture, no.  But my best guess is...

"Missed her exit" means she was coming through downtown from the east, entered the traffic circle (town square), then missed turning right at the first leg (exit).

"Making several turns" means she headed south and tried to find an easy way back.  If I were driving a big truck (I actually used to drive a box truck and hit a parked car on my second day of work), I would have headed south down IN-37; the Save-a-Lot parking lot would have been a reasonable option if she made it that far south; however, the layout of the parking lot would make turning around easy no matter how busy the store was (if it was even open on Christmas).

"The parking lot she turned into was too full for her to make the turn, so she drove onto the iron bridge that spans Lick Creek" means she went around the block (perhaps at the first opportunity, which would be Cherry Street), ended up on Gospel Street, saw the rickety bridge, then tried to turn around in one of the small lots immediately south of it.  With no room to do so, it was either go over the bridge or back a 48-foot trailer up a narrow street through an intersection.

"Uncomfortable backing her truck up" doesn't necessarily mean she didn't know how to back it up.  She not only had to perform those maneuvers to get a CDL, but she would also have to back every time she delivered to a dock.  Just as likely is that either (1) her position in whatever parking lot was such that there was no good way to turn around and attempting to do so would risk damaging property, or (2) she didn't want to risk backing through the intersection south of her position and thereby pose a threat to cross traffic.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2017, 10:13:49 PM »

That's my guess also that she ended going east on Cherry and really found herself in an extremely difficult position.  The ironic thing is that if she headed west on Cherry she probably would have been okay.

One thing that is odd is that giant roundabout in downtown Paoli.  That's a pretty strange configuration with the road literally circling the courthouse...actually kind of neat IMO.

Those are fairly common in some parts of the country, and I've seen them referred to as "town squares" rather than traffic circles.  When I lived in southern Illinois, most people just called them "squares."  The one in Benton, Illinois, has constant, heavy traffic, and can be quite the headache.  I once had to drive through Benton while an accident on the Interstate had all northbound I-57 traffic diverted onto IL-37 through the town square.  Yeeck!

Funny, I don't seem recall encountering that situation all that much or if ever on a numbered highway in Michigan.  Granted the way MDOT does things could be substantially different and I'm sure there is an example with a similar configuration.

tdindy88

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2017, 11:23:33 PM »

There's a name to that kind of square, the Lancaster Square. Named I believe for the courthouse square in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. In Indiana there are three kinds of courthouse squares: Lancaster, Shelbyville and Harrisonburg and the Lancaster is the rarest of the three. Only three counties in the state have this kind of courthouse square and they are all in the same region and border each other: Dubois, Orange and Washington. INDOT in recent years rerouted SR 135 around Salem to avoid the highway from navigating around a similar town square. There is a sort-of bypass around Paoli with Hospital Road to the northwest, not that it would have helped things here.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 11:40:17 AM by tdindy88 »
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theline

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2017, 11:28:23 AM »

^^ How does Lake County (Crown Point, IN) figure into this? It looks pretty similar to Paoli, except that Main Street lines up with the east side of the square rather than heading straight into it. Like in Paoli, one-way traffic rotates counter-clockwise around the old courthouse.
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tdindy88

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2017, 11:39:45 AM »

Lake County's would be a Harrisonburg Square.
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ixnay

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2017, 09:03:51 AM »

Well at least the judge gave her time to think about what to do.

And gave new meaning to this song.  Yes, Indiana wants her - for 6 months.


ixnay
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Duke87

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2017, 08:57:41 PM »

And gave new meaning to this song.  Yes, Indiana wants her - for 6 months.

And today I learned that the obscure They Might Be Giants song "Indiana Wants Me" is a cover of an obscure one hit wonder from 1970.
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Big John

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Re: Historic Bridge Collaspes due to truck driver error
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2017, 03:49:15 PM »

Another bridge collapse after a large truck tries to cross.  Picture shows it was posted 3 ton limit.  http://www.kwwl.com/story/35354271/2017/05/05/bridge-collapses-across-upper-iowa-river-in-winneshiek-county
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