US 280: Toll lanes on the way?

[jdb1234]

The long on and off again proposals to fix US 280 here in Birmingham is on again.

http://blog.al.com/drivers-side/2009/12/post_10.html

This has been a high controversial topic where I live and most of the reactions have been very negative.

[njroadhorse]

What is the point of even tolling US 280?  I know that the benefit would be to pay for an upgrade, but it's not even the freeway in Birmingham.

[froggie]

Here's the point:  280 is arguably the busiest non-freeway within the Birmingham area, and volumes well warrant a controlled-access facility from the freeway at US 31 (Red Mtn. Expwy) to well south of I-459.

[jdb1234]

You could probably make an argument for a controlled-access facility from the Red Mountain Expressway to at least Chelsea.  The reason the toll road would be below-grade north of I-459 is that the residents of Mountain Brook complained that the elevated roadway would cause too much noise and look ugly.  There is a lot of NIMBYism down here.

[Chris]

Mountain Brook is one of the wealthiest cities in the United States. The median household income was $ 127,000 as of 2007. Such towns are always a hotbed for NIMBY'ism with a lot of influential inhabitants.

[codyg1985]

If the tolled lanes are going to be built similar to those of Memorial Pkwy in Huntsville, then I hope that they are built with enough capacity for additional traffic. Two in each direction may not be enough in 20 years.

[froggie]

Perhaps, but at the same time, if they're tolled, then congestion pricing could be implemented to ensure that the tolled lanes are free-flowing.

[Alex]

If the tolled lanes are going to be built similar to those of Memorial Pkwy in Huntsville, then I hope that they are built with enough capacity for additional traffic. Two in each direction may not be enough in 20 years.

U.S. 72-231-431 northbound approaching Max Luther Drive. Photo taken 12/29/09.

Is that what the road work entails along Memorial Drive north from Max Luther Drive to Mastin Lake Road? The construction appears very similar to what they are doing with U.S. 19 in Pinellas County, Florida; shifting all traffic onto the frontage roads and building elevated freeway lanes down the middle.

[codyg1985]

If the tolled lanes are going to be built similar to those of Memorial Pkwy in Huntsville, then I hope that they are built with enough capacity for additional traffic. Two in each direction may not be enough in 20 years.

U.S. 72-231-431 northbound approaching Max Luther Drive. Photo taken 12/29/09.

Is that what the road work entails along Memorial Drive north from Max Luther Drive to Mastin Lake Road? The construction appears very similar to what they are doing with U.S. 19 in Pinellas County, Florida; shifting all traffic onto the frontage roads and building elevated freeway lanes down the middle.

That is correct. One long overpass will be built over Max Luther Drive and Sparkman Drive in the median. A similar overpass recently opened on the southern portion of Memorial Pkwy over Whitesburg Drive and Weatherly Road if you got a chance to look down there.

[jdb1234]

Alabama Transportation chief: Expect US 280 express lane tolls of 20-25 cents a mile.

http://blog.al.com/drivers-side/2010/02/transportation_director_says_tolls_would_be_20_to_25_cents_a_mile_on_us_280.html

On another note, the city of Homewood has objected to this proposal and has brought forth one of their own.

[jdb1234]

Hoover City Council Votes in favor of express lane tolls on US 280.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/04/hoover_city_council_votes_in_f.html

However, the City of Birmingham is opposed to the project and the mayor wants ALDOT to use toll money to fund mass transit.  In other words, help fund the nearly broke MAX system in town.  

[codyg1985]

However, the City of Birmingham is opposed to the project and the mayor wants ALDOT to use toll money to fund mass transit.  In other words, help fund the nearly broke MAX system in town. 

How does the Birmingham mayor think toll roads work? If all the toll revenue is used for the bus system, then who is going to pay for the road? *facepalm* I'll believe this thing will be built when I see it. Too much bickering between different municipalities as usual instead of working together to fight a problem.

[jdb1234]

However, the City of Birmingham is opposed to the project and the mayor wants ALDOT to use toll money to fund mass transit.  In other words, help fund the nearly broke MAX system in town. 

How does the Birmingham mayor think toll roads work? If all the toll revenue is used for the bus system, then who is going to pay for the road? *facepalm* I'll believe this thing will be built when I see it. Too much bickering between different municipalities as usual instead of working together to fight a problem.

The mayor wants 5 cents of every toll I believe to fund mass transit.  You are definitely right, though, too much bickering for anything to get done here. 

[mightyace]

How does the Birmingham mayor think toll roads work? If all the toll revenue is used for the bus system, then who is going to pay for the road?

The mayor wants 5 cents of every toll I believe to fund mass transit.  You are definitely right, though, too much bickering for anything to get done here.  

Is the Birmingham mayor friends with Ed Rendell?

EDIT:
But, seriously, it seems to be a growing trend in the U.S. to try and use tolls for "public transit."

So, how come the roads must "pay for themselves" to be viable but the bus, rail or trolley line does not?

[The Premier]

However, the City of Birmingham is opposed to the project and the mayor wants ALDOT to use toll money to fund mass transit.  In other words, help fund the nearly broke MAX system in town. 

Agreed. There is no need to toll U.S. Hwy 280. No doubt it needs to be rebuilt to accommodate more traffic, but tolling 280 is not appropriate, especially with MAX barely able to continue. You also have to construct I-22 that is not yet completed.

[jdb1234]

Not on the US 280 corridor but very close to it.  Apparently, the city of Birmingham wants to toll the Grants Mill Road bridge over Lake Purdy.  Grants Mill Road is used as an alternate to US 280 between AL 119 and I-459 (I don't go that way, I'd rather be stuck on US 280).

http://www.abc3340.com/Global/story.asp?S=12843001

[jdb1234]

Transit options sought for US 280:

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/08/transit_options_sought_for_us.html#incart_hbx

[jdb1234]

Movement at last on US 280 Gridlock:

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/01/movement_at_last_on_us_280_gri.html

It remains to be seen whether anything will happen or not.

[jdb1234]

Here we go again:

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/06/alternative_unveiled_for_birmi.html

[codyg1985]

The plan also includes Elton B. Stephens Expressway connecting more directly with U.S. 280, which would require eliminating the loop that funnels traffic onto the highway. "That completely eliminates congestion at that location," he said.

Which loop are they referring to? The flyover from SB Elton B Stephens Expressway to EB US 280? Sounds like they want to make that the through movement instead of defaulting onto US 31.

Did this proposal look at US 280 from I-459 and east? As one of the commenters said, that is where the real problem is. As far as I know, they still want the elevated lanes east of I-459.

Also, if the entire project is supposed to come in at $180 million, then it would cost $37 million per mile if the proposal just includes US 280 west of I-459 or $19 million per mile if the entire corridor from US 31 to Hugh Daniel Drive is under consideration.  The $37 million per mile seems to be closer to the real price if all traffic signals are removed, but does this also make the corridor entirely limited-access or would sideroad access still remain? Plus, revamping the I-459 interchange and the US 31 interchange will NOT be cheap.  I think the entire project would probably cost at least 50% more than what he is proposing, possibly more.

[froggie]

Given that Dolly Ridge Rd is west of I-459, my read on it is that this proposal only covers west of 459, and the cost for west-of-459 to 31 is $180 million.

[jdb1234]

Alabama transportation chief gathering estimates for US 280 fix:

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/07/alabama_transportation_chief_g.html

More than likely nothing will ever happen.

[barcncpt44]

If aldot moves foward with the elevated toll road plan; homewood, mountain brook, and vestiva hills will try to sue to block it.  so that means more time will pass with nothing happening.

[Alex]

Years ago (October 23, 2003) I cited an article "Widening of U.S. 280 at I-459 nearly done." from The Birmingham News on the Interstate 459 guide about some interchange improvements at U.S. 280. Looking at aerials this evening, it looks like the only element of the project completed was the expansion of the overpasses above I-459 (which national bridges lists as 2003). What happened here? Was it NIMBY's? Was it shelved so they could later try this off again on again proposal to construct toll lanes for US 280?

[jdb1234]

Years ago (October 23, 2003) I cited an article "Widening of U.S. 280 at I-459 nearly done." from The Birmingham News on the Interstate 459 guide about some interchange improvements at U.S. 280. Looking at aerials this evening, it looks like the only element of the project completed was the expansion of the overpasses above I-459 (which national bridges lists as 2003).

Not quite, the ramp from Northbound I-459 to US 280 was rebuilt and widened to 2 lanes (also required widening the bridge over Cahaba River Rd). 

What happened here? Was it NIMBY's? Was it shelved so they could later try this off again on again proposal to construct toll lanes for US 280?

For the most part, it was shelved because of the off again on again toll road proposal (which last I heard is off again).