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Author Topic: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?  (Read 4500 times)

english si

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2017, 07:14:10 AM »

It should really end there and just I-94 south of Milwaukee with US 41 along for the ride as the interstate did steal away its original alignment.  US 41 was always there and got upgraded when the WI interstate system came to be, so we cannot kick it out of course.
Even putting aside the fact that loads of US routes were always there, got upgraded when the interstates came, and then got kicked out and even made non-existent (US66, for example) - it's not like US41 is getting kicked out by I-41. As Flint1979 says:
I think the I-41 numbering is fine because it's considered highway 41 no matter if your refering to it as US 41 or I-41 it's the same thing
Of course, Flint1979 then goes on to make a silly point:
Quote
but routing it south of Milwaukee doesn't make any sense, the US 41 numbering is fine there since it splits from I-94 the first chance it gets after entering Illinois.
as it shouldn't make a difference north or south of the Zoo Interchange - if you are fine with US41 being I-41 north of there, why not south of there to where it stops being on an interstate highway? After all "it's considered highway 41 no matter if your refering to it as US 41 or I-41 it's the same thing".
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2017, 08:13:57 AM »

Right, because what WIDOT is doing is "connecting" it with "Highway 41" just south of the Illinois border.  Was it necessary?  Probably not, but it certainly is understandable.

As a local, this entire renumbering has worked just fine.  What was known as "Highway 41" is now either still called that or "Interstate 41."  No one is confused with I-894 still being marked on the bypass. 

Roadgeeks are continuing to make a big deal out of something the locals have got used to months ago.
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Henry

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2017, 08:51:40 AM »

I-41 should just end at I-43, so there would be no switch.

Why was there no attempt at a compromise proposal that would extend I-57 but leave I-94 intact?  I can see why IL and MI wouldn't have gone along with the original proposal; while there is logic to the renumbering, to any state but WI, it would be a lot of money spent for "no good reason".

I've also read on here that they were considering extending I-55, which makes more sense, other than having to rename the portion of current I-55 from 90/94 to Lake Shore Drive to I-x55.
I believe Wisconsin wanted I-55 for the corridor initially.  Illinois didn't want to compromise.
No, it was definitely I-57, and you were right about both states' feelings on the proposal.

As for I-41 not being an I-x43, the former is a better fit because it offers a long-distance alternative to I-43. Make it into I-243 or any other number, and you'd have something as bad as I-476 from Philly to Scranton, if not worse. (BTW, I-476 should've been I-97!)
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kphoger

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2017, 01:12:36 PM »

So GPS works better behind the Cheddar Curtain?

Well, this is the post I landed on first today.  That was a weird one.
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dvferyance

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2017, 01:32:38 PM »

What I would find way more confusing is eliminating 894. Then you would have a wrong way north south multiplex on an east and west route think about how crazy that would be. If you just look at a map it's very easy to know what is the best way from Chicago to the Fox cities. Then I could also make the case they should have duplexed I-65 up to Milwaukee with I-94 so that the truck drivers going from Indianapolis to Milwaukee would have one route to navigate with instead of going on multiple routes.. Where does it end?
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abefroman329

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2017, 05:19:52 PM »

No, it was definitely I-57, and you were right about both states' feelings on the proposal.

So 57 would've been twinned with 94 all the way to Milwaukee?  The Dan Ryan north of the Skyway, and the Kennedy south of the Edens, would've been 90/94/57?
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Brandon

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2017, 05:24:36 PM »

No, it was definitely I-57, and you were right about both states' feelings on the proposal.

So 57 would've been twinned with 94 all the way to Milwaukee?  The Dan Ryan north of the Skyway, and the Kennedy south of the Edens, would've been 90/94/57?

Short answer: yes.  IDOT balked, and WisDOT wanted it.
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JREwing78

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2017, 05:38:26 PM »

Roadgeeks are continuing to make a big deal out of something the locals have got used to months ago.

That's pretty much it. As far as the locals know or care, it's still Highway 41. So it has a colorful shield instead of black-and-white one.

The ones who care about that sort of thing can look at the colorful shield and know right away what kind of highway it is. The ones who whine about the cost of that don't realize that kind of money is wasted by WisDOT on stupider things (or by the legislature jerking them around with funding). The rest of the users don't care and are just irritated that construction continues to drag on at the Zoo interchange.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2017, 06:02:40 PM »

I feel all the complaining about 41 and 894 are out of state geeks who don’t have a stake in it anyway. If they’d spent any significant time in Milwaukee the existing setup would make sense.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2017, 06:17:37 PM »

I-41 should just end at I-43, so there would be no switch.

Why was there no attempt at a compromise proposal that would extend I-57 but leave I-94 intact?  I can see why IL and MI wouldn't have gone along with the original proposal; while there is logic to the renumbering, to any state but WI, it would be a lot of money spent for "no good reason".

I've also read on here that they were considering extending I-55, which makes more sense, other than having to rename the portion of current I-55 from 90/94 to Lake Shore Drive to I-x55.
I believe Wisconsin wanted I-55 for the corridor initially.  Illinois didn't want to compromise.
No, it was definitely I-57, and you were right about both states' feelings on the proposal.



Thank you for the correction.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2017, 06:17:53 PM »

I feel all the complaining about 41 and 894 are out of state geeks who don’t have a stake in it anyway. If they’d spent any significant time in Milwaukee the existing setup would make sense.


Exactly!
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SteveG1988

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2017, 07:02:26 PM »

Having it as an interstate doesn't harm anything at all. Yes it was money that could have been used for something else, but in the long run it does mean that Wisconsin is now stuck with keeping it an interstate grade road, that cannot be downgraded easily. The only reason we're having this problem is that we are all nerds who feel that it breaks the rules. Rule breaking is allowed as long as the ref lets it slide. The original interstate numbering system was a bit rigid, and back then having two major route numbers in a long distance system would be confusing. But now it isn't as bad. Interstate 41 does imply to a traveler that "hey...this road will be 65-70 mph to green bay and appleton" versus US41 that can imply "it is going to be a 45-55 mph road, two lane, and i am going to be stuck behind a truck in a no passing zone" US41 in Indiana. 60 mph road, except through towns, and when IN63 splits off with the thru traffic it turns into a two lane back road.

One could argue, why isn't I43 between I-90/39 and 94 a 3DI, I-339 or I-894. Why isn't I-57 I-55E. Stuff like that. the rules change, we have to live with them. E/W and N/S splits are technically no longer allowed, so we have to put up with odd numbering that would have been fixed with that. I-41 is I-43W. I-88 in IL could be I80N if it connected properly to 80 via 294.
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #62 on: November 18, 2017, 06:29:11 AM »

I feel all the complaining about 41 and 894 are out of state geeks who don’t have a stake in it anyway. If they’d spent any significant time in Milwaukee the existing setup would make sense.

IDK, that seems pretty presumptuous. I think if I lived there, I'd continue to think the same, regardless, about I-894 at the very least: redundant.

But I suppose that's probably a bit off-topic. I've entered into similar arguments about designations that continue to exist because of "local familiarity." (See: the MN-110 to MN-62 thread.)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 06:32:45 AM by MNHighwayMan »
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mrsman

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2017, 05:09:41 PM »

I feel all the complaining about 41 and 894 are out of state geeks who don’t have a stake in it anyway. If they’d spent any significant time in Milwaukee the existing setup would make sense.

IDK, that seems pretty presumptuous. I think if I lived there, I'd continue to think the same, regardless, about I-894 at the very least: redundant.

But I suppose that's probably a bit off-topic. I've entered into similar arguments about designations that continue to exist because of "local familiarity." (See: the MN-110 to MN-62 thread.)

The key to a lot fo this is to make sure that the control cities make sense.

At the southwestern interchange:  I-43 south to Beloit, I-894 and I-41 north to Fond du Lac/Madison ,  I-894 east - I-41 south - I-43 north either Airport/Chicago (from I-41) or Airport/Downtown Milwaukee (from I-43)

At the airport interchange: I-94 east - I-41 south Airport/Chicago, I-94 west - I-43 north Downtown Milwaukee, I-41 north - I-43 south - I-894 west Beloit/Fond du Lac

At the zoo interchange: I-94 west Madison, I-894 south - I41 south Beloit/Chicago (and an airport logo), I-94 east Downtown Milwaukee, I-41 north Fond du Lac

At the Marquette interchange:  I-94 west Madison, I-43 north Green Bay, I-794 Lakefront, I-94 east- I-43 south Airport/Chicago
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paulthemapguy

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Re: Why isn't I-41 just I-243?
« Reply #64 on: December 05, 2017, 01:01:20 PM »

The I-41 designation is completely idiotic south of 894.  If the intention was to connect with US41 to the south, US41 would be a more suitable designation?  What's more similar and obvious than keeping the designations the same???  :-D :-D :-D  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I personally argue that US51 is the one who should have had an interstate designation with the same number, but that's probably for another thread. (I-41 should be I-53, and I-43 should be I-57 and I-139/351)
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