Which states get roasted the most?

[kphoger]

Predominantly rural states also have less lane miles/signage/etc. to deal with.

That doesn't factor in state size, so, while interesting, it's not really relevant to the point I'm making. Looking at roads per square mile sheds a different light on the picture.

So what exactly are you comparing?

% of Total Population That Is Urban : Road Miles per Square Mile ?
% of Total Area That Is Urban : Road Miles per Square Mile ?
Something Else?

[webny99]

^ I should not have said rural states have less lane miles. That added some confusion, since rural states are often large in size.

I'm comparing road miles to square miles, period. And rural areas have less roads per square mile, which should be obvious.

[roadman65]

-New Jersey:  I'm not certain there is any way to drive out of the state without paying a toll.

You can go north into New York without crossing the Hudson.

I assumed he was kidding.

Many people not familiar from the area aren't.

Perhaps, but the follow-up sentence (which "1" didn't quote) reinforced my feeling that he was playing on Jersey stereotypes. (Fully justified stereotypes, IMO.)

I remember the old joke (non road geek) "You are from NJ, what exit number?"  Well  I told him that I lived off Exit 135, and he did not believe the numbers went that high.

Point is that some people nowadays take things seriously what are friendly sarcastic jokes road geek or not.

[kphoger]

^ I should not have said rural states have less lane miles. That added some confusion, since rural states are often large in size.

I'm comparing road miles to square miles, period. And rural areas have less roads per square mile, which should be obvious.

Gotcha.  My beef with it is that rural areas also have fewer people paying taxes on the roads' upkeep.  So it still doesn't necessarily follow that the roads should be in better shape.  There also tends to be fewer people using most of the roads, meaning less incentive to keep them in good shape.  The vast majority of road miles in Kansas, for example, are gravel roads with little traffic.  Such is not true of New Jersey.

[webny99]

Gotcha.  My beef with it is that rural areas also have fewer people paying taxes on the roads' upkeep.  So it still doesn't necessarily follow that the roads should be in better shape.  There also tends to be fewer people using most of the roads, meaning less incentive to keep them in good shape.  The vast majority of road miles in Kansas, for example, are gravel roads with little traffic.  Such is not true of New Jersey.

I tend to agree with you there, and I apologize if I insinuated that rural areas should keep up their roads better.
I have never been to Kansas, but are over half of the road miles there actually gravel? That would, quite honestly, be shocking to me if it were the case.



On a somewhat parallel subject, is there a way to determine how many active users are on the forum from each state? That would help in gauging whether the amount of roasting received by each state is justified. Naturally, more users = more roasting  Then, if the amount of criticism isn't representative of user volume from that state, we would know which state really does get roasted the most.

[jeffandnicole]

Gotcha.  My beef with it is that rural areas also have fewer people paying taxes on the roads' upkeep.  So it still doesn't necessarily follow that the roads should be in better shape.  There also tends to be fewer people using most of the roads, meaning less incentive to keep them in good shape.  The vast majority of road miles in Kansas, for example, are gravel roads with little traffic.  Such is not true of New Jersey.

I tend to agree with you there, and I apologize if I insinuated that rural areas should keep up their roads better.
I have never been to Kansas, but are over half of the road miles there actually gravel? That would, quite honestly, be shocking to me if it were the case.



On a somewhat parallel subject, is there a way to determine how many active users are on the forum from each state? That would help in gauging whether the amount of roasting received by each state is justified. Naturally, more users = more roasting  Then, if the amount of criticism isn't representative of user volume from that state, we would know which state really does get roasted the most.

Not only would you need to consider user volume from each state, but user volume from members that travel thru each state. 

Pennsylvania is basically a cross-roads of the Northeast US.  Unless you go thru NJ, you have to go thru Pennsylvania to get to or from New York and New England.  Thus, more people will have more opinions of that state.  New York - same thing - in order to go to or from New England, you have to cross thru New York (yes, unless you're flying, or you cut thru Canada, or you take a cruise ship, etc, etc).

[kphoger]

I have never been to Kansas, but are over half of the road miles there actually gravel? That would, quite honestly, be shocking to me if it were the case.

Yes.  Well, gravel or dirt.

Prepare to be shocked:  roughly 70% of the road mileage in Kansas is unpaved.

As of December 31, 2015, there were 140,654 miles of roads, streets and highways in Kansas. ... The Kansas State Highway System (SHS) including City Connecting Links (CCL) totals 10,295 miles ... Interstate, US, and Kansas routes make up 7.5% of the total Kansas road mileage

In 2006, rural Kansas counties on average had a budget of $2.3 million and 25 employees to maintain:
-112 miles of paved roads
-830 miles of unpaved roads
-170 bridges

Public Road Miles
140,753
About 100,000 miles of Kansas roads are non-paved.

[Hurricane Rex]

Public Road Miles
140,753
About 100,000 miles of Kansas roads are non-paved.

*Immediatly starts to laugh*

That's a lot of non-paved roads, and I'm not sure if any other state has more.

[jeffandnicole]

I have never been to Kansas, but are over half of the road miles there actually gravel? That would, quite honestly, be shocking to me if it were the case.

Yes.  Well, gravel or dirt.

Prepare to be shocked:  roughly 70% of the road mileage in Kansas is unpaved.

As of December 31, 2015, there were 140,654 miles of roads, streets and highways in Kansas. ... The Kansas State Highway System (SHS) including City Connecting Links (CCL) totals 10,295 miles ... Interstate, US, and Kansas routes make up 7.5% of the total Kansas road mileage

In 2006, rural Kansas counties on average had a budget of $2.3 million and 25 employees to maintain:
•112 miles of paved roads
•830 miles of unpaved roads
•170 bridges

Public Road Miles
140,753
About 100,000 miles of Kansas roads are non-paved.

Just clarify...$2.5 million for the entire rural counties statewide in total, or for each county?

[webny99]

Just clarify...$2.5 million for the entire rural counties statewide in total, or for each county?

I assumed for each county...

I have never been to Kansas, but are over half of the road miles there actually gravel? That would, quite honestly, be shocking to me if it were the case.

Yes.  Well, gravel or dirt.

Prepare to be shocked:  roughly 70% of the road mileage in Kansas is unpaved.

[quotes snipped]

Follow up question: How many of those road miles have an AADT of 100 or more? 

[kphoger]

I have never been to Kansas, but are over half of the road miles there actually gravel? That would, quite honestly, be shocking to me if it were the case.

Yes.  Well, gravel or dirt.

Prepare to be shocked:  roughly 70% of the road mileage in Kansas is unpaved.

As of December 31, 2015, there were 140,654 miles of roads, streets and highways in Kansas. ... The Kansas State Highway System (SHS) including City Connecting Links (CCL) totals 10,295 miles ... Interstate, US, and Kansas routes make up 7.5% of the total Kansas road mileage

In 2006, rural Kansas counties on average had a budget of $2.3 million and 25 employees to maintain:
-112 miles of paved roads
-830 miles of unpaved roads
-170 bridges

Public Road Miles
140,753
About 100,000 miles of Kansas roads are non-paved.

Just clarify...$2.5 million for the entire rural counties statewide in total, or for each county?

It suggests that's the annual budget for the average rural county.  Considering that's the price of a normal highway resurfacing project, it seems right to me.

Public Road Miles
140,753
About 100,000 miles of Kansas roads are non-paved.

*Immediatly starts to laugh*

That's a lot of non-paved roads, and I'm not sure if any other state has more.

I assume Texas has more, but I'm unable to dig up any numbers for that.  Kansas ranks fourth (behind only Texas, California, and Illinois) for total road miles–more than Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, and Connecticut combined–but Texas tops 300,000 total road miles and fewer than 90,000 highway miles.  To put Kansas' number further in perspective, Kansas has more than twice as many miles of unpaved roads as there are miles in the entire Interstate System.

[webny99]

To put Kansas' number further in perspective, Kansas has more than twice as many miles of unpaved roads as there are miles in the entire Interstate System.

I know I was joking earlier, but I'm sure there is some truth to the fact that very few of those roads carry a lot of significant volume, much less significant long-distance traffic. Probably mostly just connecting fields and such, if North Dakota is any indication. Most roads connecting towns/regional centers I presume would be paved.

With that said, I do intend to visit Kansas, myself, someday, and form my own impressions 

[triplemultiplex]

It's all the section line roads that give Kansas so much mileage.  Build a road every one mile and do that across the entire state (more or less) north-south and east west, that's going to be a lot of miles.

[Strider]

All VDOT has to do is modify some of the ramps on US-29 in Danville, as well as close the Elizabeth Street at-grade access and I-785 in VA will be complete. There are currently no plans to do so.

Needs 10 foot wide paved right shoulders thruout, and 4 foot wide paved left shoulders thruout.

The Elizabeth Street access now is the first stage of an design that includes an overpassing roadway for Elizabeth Street and the completion of 4 ramps.

N.C. has about 20 miles of US-29 that is a nonlimited access highway and would need major construction if they want a freeway.  I don't think any detailed planning there yet.

The shoulders on US-29 between the US-29 Business split in Blairs and the NC state line already meets interstate standards. Once VDOT modifies some of the ramps at certain interchanges and deals with Elizabeth Street, I-785 shields can go up once NC finishes their part, whenever that may be.

Unfortunately, I don't know when NC will upgrade their section to I-785 between the Greensboro beltway and Rockingham county as it is not listed on their STIP 2018-2027. However, they have two projects that will start at 2019, in which they will upgrade the Summit Ave/Reddy Fork Rd bridge and the NC 150 interchanges.

But yeah VA only need to fix the Elizabeth Street intersection, then boom. I-785 is complete in VA.

[webny99]

NC builds lots of interstates. I'm not sure if there's a consensus as to whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

[hotdogPi]

NC builds lots of interstates. I'm not sure if there's a consensus as to whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

I think the consensus is:
3dis: Good
I-42: Good
I-73: No consensus
I-74: Bad
I-87: Bad

[formulanone]

NC builds lots of interstates. I'm not sure if there's a consensus as to whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

I think the consensus is:
3dis: Good
I-42: Good
I-73: No consensus
I-74: Bad
I-87: Bad

I think there's a lot of jealousy...it is the 10th largest state in population and steadily growing. Work seems to keep progressing on actually constructing these new/upgraded highways at a pace currently unseen elsewhere in the US (except maybe Texas).

Pipe dream or not, I-73 at least gained some traction in NC, and will eventually get to Myrtle Beach and Roanoke. I-87 probably should have been given another number. I-74 makes sense on paper, but it's kind of a head-scratcher in some remote places. Charlotte's big enough to warrant a route to the coast, linking Wilmington (that is, if it goes there).

[Jmiles32]

NC builds lots of interstates. I'm not sure if there's a consensus as to whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

I think the consensus is:
3dis: Good
I-42: Good
I-73: No consensus
I-74: Bad
I-87: Bad

If Virginia and South Carolina ever actually build and complete their proposed sections of I-73, then yes I think that would give it an overall good and useful consensus as a newer 2di.

Also while I'm thinking about it, I wonder what the consensus would be for the possible Asheville to Wilmington 2di that we all know N.C really wants.

[tdindy88]

Also while I'm thinking about it, I wonder what the consensus would be for the possible Ashville to Wilmington 2di that we all know N.C really wants.

I'm sure I'm out of line, but isn't there a 2di that connects Asheville and Wilmington? 

[Jmiles32]

Also while I'm thinking about it, I wonder what the consensus would be for the possible Ashville to Wilmington 2di that we all know N.C really wants.

I'm sure I'm out of line, but isn't there a 2di that connects Asheville and Wilmington? 

Good point. Its all about the details. The Asheville to Wilmington interstate I'm referring to is the potential one that would follow/replace US-74.

[Eth]

NC builds lots of interstates. I'm not sure if there's a consensus as to whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

I think the consensus is:
3dis: Good
I-42: Good
I-73: No consensus
I-74: Bad
I-87: Bad

I think there's a lot of jealousy...it is the 10th largest state in population and steadily growing. Work seems to keep progressing on actually constructing these new/upgraded highways at a pace currently unseen elsewhere in the US (except maybe Texas).

Possible. The only way a freeway gets built in Georgia these days is for a county (either Chatham or Gwinnett) to do it, the 50-year plan for GA 316 notwithstanding.

[wxfree]

Public Road Miles
140,753
About 100,000 miles of Kansas roads are non-paved.

*Immediatly starts to laugh*

That's a lot of non-paved roads, and I'm not sure if any other state has more.

I assume Texas has more, but I'm unable to dig up any numbers for that.  Kansas ranks fourth (behind only Texas, California, and Illinois) for total road miles–more than Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, and Connecticut combined–but Texas tops 300,000 total road miles and fewer than 90,000 highway miles.  To put Kansas' number further in perspective, Kansas has more than twice as many miles of unpaved roads as there are miles in the entire Interstate System.

It looks like Kansas has us beat.  Texas has nearly 86,000 miles of unpaved roads.  About 77 miles of that is city streets, 83,285 miles are county roads, less than 3 miles are toll road authority roads, and 2,359 miles are federal roads (which I assume means roads in national parks and recreation areas, military installments, and other federal facilities).  This report includes only roads open to traffic.

This information is on page 859, the off-system roads page.  There are very small distances of unpaved on-system roads, adding up to about 1.5 miles.
ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/tpp/roadway-inventory/2016.pdf

[hbelkins]

Also while I'm thinking about it, I wonder what the consensus would be for the possible Ashville to Wilmington 2di that we all know N.C really wants.

I'm sure I'm out of line, but isn't there a 2di that connects Asheville and Wilmington? 

Good point. Its all about the details. The Asheville to Wilmington interstate I'm referring to is the potential one that would follow/replace US-74.

You're actually talking about two separate corridors -- Asheville to Charlotte, and Charlotte to Wilmington.

[Jmiles32]

Also while I'm thinking about it, I wonder what the consensus would be for the possible Ashville to Wilmington 2di that we all know N.C really wants.

I'm sure I'm out of line, but isn't there a 2di that connects Asheville and Wilmington? 

Good point. Its all about the details. The Asheville to Wilmington interstate I'm referring to is the potential one that would follow/replace US-74.

You're actually talking about two separate corridors -- Asheville to Charlotte, and Charlotte to Wilmington.

True although N.C could easily combine them into one by having the corridor go around Charlotte via the southern half of I-485.

[Scott5114]

Public Road Miles
140,753
About 100,000 miles of Kansas roads are non-paved.

*Immediatly starts to laugh*

That's a lot of non-paved roads, and I'm not sure if any other state has more.

I assume Texas has more, but I'm unable to dig up any numbers for that.  Kansas ranks fourth (behind only Texas, California, and Illinois) for total road miles–more than Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, and Connecticut combined–but Texas tops 300,000 total road miles and fewer than 90,000 highway miles.  To put Kansas' number further in perspective, Kansas has more than twice as many miles of unpaved roads as there are miles in the entire Interstate System.

It looks like Kansas has us beat.  Texas has nearly 86,000 miles of unpaved roads.  About 77 miles of that is city streets, 83,285 miles are county roads, less than 3 miles are toll road authority roads, and 2,359 miles are federal roads (which I assume means roads in national parks and recreation areas, military installments, and other federal facilities).  This report includes only roads open to traffic.

This information is on page 859, the off-system roads page.  There are very small distances of unpaved on-system roads, adding up to about 1.5 miles.
ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/tpp/roadway-inventory/2016.pdf

The disparity is probably because the TxDOT's responsibility is far more expansive, thanks to the FM system. The state has the money to pave all those roads. In Kansas, only 7.5% of the routes are maintained by KDOT, so you get more gravel.