DST (2018)

[jakeroot]

(A few US states have forgotten that federal law trumps state law.)

Supremacy law is meaningless if the government doesn't enforce it. If they did strongly enforce it, the backlash would be insane.

[kphoger]

(A few US states have forgotten that federal law trumps state law.)

Supremacy law is meaningless if the government doesn't enforce it. If they did strongly enforce it, the backlash would be insane.

But that doesn't make a thing "legal."

[jakeroot]

(A few US states have forgotten that federal law trumps state law.)

Supremacy law is meaningless if the government doesn't enforce it. If they did strongly enforce it, the backlash would be insane.

But that doesn't make a thing "legal."

On paper.

[kphoger]

A recent study found that there was a 11% increase in in the incidence rate of unipolar depressive episodes during the transition from summer time to standard time.  OTOH, no increases in unipolar depressive episodes were seen when transitioning from standard time to summer time. 

A recent study analyzing 185,419 hospital contacts for unipolar depression found that there was a 11% increase in the incidence rate of unipolar depressive episodes during the transition from summer time to standard time.  Even as sunlight is shifted to the morning after the fall time change, there was a spike in depression (presumably because the sunset was suddenly an hour earlier.

Eliminate DST, and there's no longer any transition at all.  Problem solved.

if the country went to permanent DST

I'm just suggesting we poll the 20.3 million people living in the largest metropolitan area in this country and see if they would prefer a summer sunset of 7:31PM or 8:31PM. 

I'm suggesting we poll the Kansas City metro area (2.2 million) and see if they would prefer a winter sunrise of 7:37 AM or 8:37 AM.

I'm suggesting we poll the Pittsburgh metro area (2.6 million) and see if they would prefer a winter sunrise of 7:43 AM or 8:43 AM.

I'm suggesting we poll both the Minneapolis metro area (3.6 million) and Salt Lake City metro area (1.1 million) and see if they would prefer a winter sunrise of 7:51 AM or 8:51 AM.

I'm suggesting we poll the Seattle metro area (3.9 million) and see if they would prefer a winter sunrise of 7:57 AM or 8:57 AM.

I'm suggesting we poll the Detroit metro area (4.2 million) and see if they would prefer a winter sunrise of 8:01 AM or 9:01 AM.

Et cetera.

[noelbotevera]

Trick or treating rules are a thing?

Chambersburg doesn't really care about trick or treaters. I've seen people walking around my neighborhood as late as 9:30 or 10 o'clock at night. Here we start at sundown, which is usually around 6:30 to 7, so there's a generous three hours for going door to door.

[02 Park Ave]

Morocco suddenly announced today it will be staying on DST (GMT+1) and will not be turning its clocks back an hour on Sunday morning.

[english si]

Morocco suddenly announced today it will be staying on DST (GMT+1) and will not be turning its clocks back an hour on Sunday morning.

Which, as an authoritarian state, doesn't give a crap about mental health or what people might think (before Trad claims it as a victory)

[CNGL-Leudimin]

Okay, DST is ending in Europe tonight. As here I use the local time of wherever Big Rig Steve is now (currently it's Pacific as he's in Sacramento CA) but using the European DST rules it means it will be one hour behind for the next week. So once again and like it happened back in March I'll be setting my forum hour to Alaska time zone (i.e. Pacific without DST)! Note that I use this time when quoting hours, I have set the forum to display my actual time zone... with American DST rules (meaning it will display one hour ahead of my actual time for that same week).

[jakeroot]

Okay, DST is ending in Europe tonight. As here I use the local time of wherever Big Rig Steve is now (currently it's Pacific as he's in Sacramento CA) but using the European DST rules it means it will be one hour behind for the next week. So once again and like it happened back in March I'll be setting my forum hour to Alaska time zone (i.e. Pacific without DST)! Note that I use this time when quoting hours, I have set the forum to display my actual time zone... with American DST rules (meaning it will display one hour ahead of my actual time for that same week).

Good lord that seems like it would get confusing after a while. Why not pick one time zone and stick with it?

[CNGL-Leudimin]

I used to stick with Eastern (or more precisely, six hours behind my actual time), but then I decided to spicy up my forum time .

[jakeroot]

I used to stick with Eastern (or more precisely, six hours behind my actual time), but then I decided to spicy up my forum time .

As long as you can continue to make sense of it, more power to you.

[NWI_Irish96]

https://www.wndu.com/content/news/NTSB-team-heading-to-scene-of--499126381.html

This accident happened yesterday on a state highway in Indiana, at 7:15 am.  If Indiana was on Central Time like it should be (or if it didn't observe DST or DST ended earlier), sunrise would have been at 7:13 instead of 8:13 and maybe this doesn't happen, but hey, the adults want to enjoy that hour of sunlight from 5:44 pm to 6:44 pm instead so that's how it is.

[kalvado]

https://www.wndu.com/content/news/NTSB-team-heading-to-scene-of--499126381.html

This accident happened yesterday on a state highway in Indiana, at 7:15 am.  If Indiana was on Central Time like it should be (or if it didn't observe DST or DST ended earlier), sunrise would have been at 7:13 instead of 8:13 and maybe this doesn't happen, but hey, the adults want to enjoy that hour of sunlight from 5:44 pm to 6:44 pm instead so that's how it is.

As far as I understand, they are talking 70 MPH in 40 MPH zone. Was it so dark she couldn't see her speed on a dashboard?
I hesitate to go above +20 even on a highway...

[NWI_Irish96]

https://www.wndu.com/content/news/NTSB-team-heading-to-scene-of--499126381.html

This accident happened yesterday on a state highway in Indiana, at 7:15 am.  If Indiana was on Central Time like it should be (or if it didn't observe DST or DST ended earlier), sunrise would have been at 7:13 instead of 8:13 and maybe this doesn't happen, but hey, the adults want to enjoy that hour of sunlight from 5:44 pm to 6:44 pm instead so that's how it is.

As far as I understand, they are talking 70 MPH in 40 MPH zone. Was it so dark she couldn't see her speed on a dashboard?
I hesitate to go above +20 even on a highway...

None of the articles I've read mentioned speed as a factor, and speeding was not among the several charges listed.  Not sure where you are seeing 70mph.

[webny99]

https://www.wndu.com/content/news/NTSB-team-heading-to-scene-of--499126381.html
This accident happened yesterday on a state highway in Indiana, at 7:15 am.  If Indiana was on Central Time like it should be (or if it didn't observe DST or DST ended earlier), sunrise would have been at 7:13 instead of 8:13 and maybe this doesn't happen, but hey, the adults want to enjoy that hour of sunlight from 5:44 pm to 6:44 pm instead so that's how it is.

This can't necessarily be used to argue that we should forego DST altogether, but it can definitely be used to argue DST should end a few weeks sooner. It's dark enough in Upstate NY in late October... I can only imagine mornings 5+ hours west of me where sunrises are that much later. And it is very interesting that this happened within those few added weeks of DST.

[kalvado]

https://www.wndu.com/content/news/NTSB-team-heading-to-scene-of--499126381.html
This accident happened yesterday on a state highway in Indiana, at 7:15 am.  If Indiana was on Central Time like it should be (or if it didn't observe DST or DST ended earlier), sunrise would have been at 7:13 instead of 8:13 and maybe this doesn't happen, but hey, the adults want to enjoy that hour of sunlight from 5:44 pm to 6:44 pm instead so that's how it is.

This can't necessarily be used to argue that we should forego DST altogether, but it can definitely be used to argue DST should end a few weeks sooner. It's dark enough in Upstate NY in late October... I can only imagine mornings 5+ hours west of me where sunrises are that much later. And it is very interesting that this happened within those few added weeks of DST.

This accident can equally be used to argue that we should forego pickup trucks altogether.  After all, it is definitely another unrelated factor

[NWI_Irish96]

https://www.wndu.com/content/news/NTSB-team-heading-to-scene-of--499126381.html
This accident happened yesterday on a state highway in Indiana, at 7:15 am.  If Indiana was on Central Time like it should be (or if it didn't observe DST or DST ended earlier), sunrise would have been at 7:13 instead of 8:13 and maybe this doesn't happen, but hey, the adults want to enjoy that hour of sunlight from 5:44 pm to 6:44 pm instead so that's how it is.

This can't necessarily be used to argue that we should forego DST altogether, but it can definitely be used to argue DST should end a few weeks sooner. It's dark enough in Upstate NY in late October... I can only imagine mornings 5+ hours west of me where sunrises are that much later. And it is very interesting that this happened within those few added weeks of DST.

This accident can equally be used to argue that we should forego pickup trucks altogether.  After all, it is definitely another unrelated factor

The difference in visibility between 58 minutes before dawn and 2 minutes after is most definitely related to vehicle accidents.

[hotdogPi]

No, we should forgo accidents.

[kphoger]

I thought of this thread immediately when I heard tell of the incident.

[english si]

None of the articles I've read mentioned speed as a factor, and speeding was not among the several charges listed.  Not sure where you are seeing 70mph.

It's dark, he can't see it...

This can't necessarily be used to argue that we should forego DST altogether, but it can definitely be used to argue DST should end a few weeks sooner. It's dark enough in Upstate NY in late October... I can only imagine mornings 5+ hours west of me where sunrises are that much later. And it is very interesting that this happened within those few added weeks of DST.

Europe is/was basically the Sunday after the solstice (last Sunday in March) to the ~5th Sunday after the solstice (last Sunday in October). The US+Canada go forward a couple of weeks earlier than that, and one week later. North America less lopsided than Europe but 2 before and 6 after (vs 1 after and 5 after) is still with an autumnal change a month later than the equivalent time for a vernal change.

And Halloween has only just started here (though we still have 5 minutes of Civil Twilight left, and night-proper isn't until 1830), because ancient/Catholic notions of 'eve' aren't the day before, but the sunset before, and the sun set 30 minutes ago at 1637 (sun rose at 0654). Though there's been three minutes while I looked that up and typed it out and dealt with the replies since stopping my post going through.

[kalvado]

https://www.wndu.com/content/news/NTSB-team-heading-to-scene-of--499126381.html
This accident happened yesterday on a state highway in Indiana, at 7:15 am.  If Indiana was on Central Time like it should be (or if it didn't observe DST or DST ended earlier), sunrise would have been at 7:13 instead of 8:13 and maybe this doesn't happen, but hey, the adults want to enjoy that hour of sunlight from 5:44 pm to 6:44 pm instead so that's how it is.

This can't necessarily be used to argue that we should forego DST altogether, but it can definitely be used to argue DST should end a few weeks sooner. It's dark enough in Upstate NY in late October... I can only imagine mornings 5+ hours west of me where sunrises are that much later. And it is very interesting that this happened within those few added weeks of DST.

This accident can equally be used to argue that we should forego pickup trucks altogether.  After all, it is definitely another unrelated factor

The difference in visibility between 58 minutes before dawn and 2 minutes after is most definitely related to vehicle accidents.

For this to be the factor, someone would need to argue that school bus flashing lights are not visible in the darkness. My poker face is not good enough for that

[kalvado]

No, we should forgo accidents.

Humans are the root cause here.

[kphoger]

No, we should forgo accidents.

Humans are the root cause here.

No, it couldn't have happened indoors–humans or not.  We should forgo the outside world.

[NWI_Irish96]

https://www.wndu.com/content/news/NTSB-team-heading-to-scene-of--499126381.html
This accident happened yesterday on a state highway in Indiana, at 7:15 am.  If Indiana was on Central Time like it should be (or if it didn't observe DST or DST ended earlier), sunrise would have been at 7:13 instead of 8:13 and maybe this doesn't happen, but hey, the adults want to enjoy that hour of sunlight from 5:44 pm to 6:44 pm instead so that's how it is.

This can't necessarily be used to argue that we should forego DST altogether, but it can definitely be used to argue DST should end a few weeks sooner. It's dark enough in Upstate NY in late October... I can only imagine mornings 5+ hours west of me where sunrises are that much later. And it is very interesting that this happened within those few added weeks of DST.

This accident can equally be used to argue that we should forego pickup trucks altogether.  After all, it is definitely another unrelated factor

The difference in visibility between 58 minutes before dawn and 2 minutes after is most definitely related to vehicle accidents.

For this to be the factor, someone would need to argue that school bus flashing lights are not visible in the darkness. My poker face is not good enough for that

Coming around that curve, the kids would have come into view before the bus, and the kids would have been more visible in the light.

[kphoger]

https://www.wndu.com/content/news/NTSB-team-heading-to-scene-of--499126381.html
This accident happened yesterday on a state highway in Indiana, at 7:15 am.  If Indiana was on Central Time like it should be (or if it didn't observe DST or DST ended earlier), sunrise would have been at 7:13 instead of 8:13 and maybe this doesn't happen, but hey, the adults want to enjoy that hour of sunlight from 5:44 pm to 6:44 pm instead so that's how it is.

This can't necessarily be used to argue that we should forego DST altogether, but it can definitely be used to argue DST should end a few weeks sooner. It's dark enough in Upstate NY in late October... I can only imagine mornings 5+ hours west of me where sunrises are that much later. And it is very interesting that this happened within those few added weeks of DST.

This accident can equally be used to argue that we should forego pickup trucks altogether.  After all, it is definitely another unrelated factor

The difference in visibility between 58 minutes before dawn and 2 minutes after is most definitely related to vehicle accidents.

For this to be the factor, someone would need to argue that school bus flashing lights are not visible in the darkness. My poker face is not good enough for that

Coming around that curve, the kids would have come into view before the bus, and the kids would have been more visible in the light.

I assume there's no corn left standing in the fields of Indiana this time of year, which leads me to believe the school bus lights should have been plenty visible–curve or no curve.