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Author Topic: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio  (Read 2015 times)

Stephane Dumas

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The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« on: February 11, 2018, 01:08:29 PM »

Brian Purcell posted a blog post about flyovers ramps rising in San Antonio with a shot of the flyover ramps of the TX-151/I-410 stack interchange taking shape. http://www.onthemoveblog.com/flyover-fairy/#more-6408
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longhorn

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2018, 04:33:28 PM »

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=277981&page=631

Scroll down, and one sees the diagram for the I-10/410 stack.
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Stephane Dumas

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2018, 06:55:44 PM »

Google maps had updated some of their satellite shots, one of the flyovers at the current I-410/US-90 west interchange had beginned to take shape.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=29.39843,-98.64805&z=17&t=S
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2018, 04:31:01 PM »

What took so long for the flyover fairy to return to San Antonio?
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2018, 10:28:28 PM »

I remember how surprised I was to find the southern 35/410 interchange to be a simple cloverleaf.
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Stephane Dumas

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 09:57:23 AM »

I remember how surprised I was to find the southern 35/410 interchange to be a simple cloverleaf.

Back when the southern I-35/410 interchange was built, that area was mainly rural but now the urban sprawl had beginned to reach up that area.
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Stephane Dumas

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2018, 08:23:50 PM »

One of the first flyover ramps at the I-410/US-90 west interchange is open.
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DJStephens

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2018, 05:46:11 PM »

I remember how surprised I was to find the southern 35/410 interchange to be a simple cloverleaf.

Back when the southern I-35/410 interchange was built, that area was mainly rural but now the urban sprawl had beginned to reach up that area.

No San Antonio native but did spend twelve weeks at Ft. Sam Houston 25 years ago.  The 410 loop is pretty far in, at least by today's standards.  More of an inner loop.  In hindsight perhaps it should been built farther out.  It was probably all farmland in 1960, meaning 410's routing.
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thisdj78

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2018, 05:17:36 PM »

I remember how surprised I was to find the southern 35/410 interchange to be a simple cloverleaf.

Back when the southern I-35/410 interchange was built, that area was mainly rural but now the urban sprawl had beginned to reach up that area.

No San Antonio native but did spend twelve weeks at Ft. Sam Houston 25 years ago.  The 410 loop is pretty far in, at least by today's standards.  More of an inner loop.  In hindsight perhaps it should been built farther out.  It was probably all farmland in 1960, meaning 410's routing.

1604, once fully built out...will be the “outer loop”
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Stephane Dumas

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2018, 05:44:38 PM »

No San Antonio native but did spend twelve weeks at Ft. Sam Houston 25 years ago.  The 410 loop is pretty far in, at least by today's standards.  More of an inner loop.  In hindsight perhaps it should been built farther out.  It was probably all farmland in 1960, meaning 410's routing.

1604, once fully built out...will be the “outer loop”
[/quote]

Depends how long it'll be the "outer loop", there's an unofficial loop who beginned to form with parts of TX-46, TX-123, TX-97, TX-173 and TX-16 called "The Circuit".
http://texashighwayman.com/circuit.shtml
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Bobby5280

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2018, 09:53:17 PM »

I think it's pretty likely Sequin and New Braunfels will have a direct freeway link sometime over the next decade. Or at least TX-DOT had better be at work building one by then. It's one of the fastest growing regions in the nation. But upgrading TX-46 would already be difficult since the highway between those two cities is getting encroached with development. The problem is the same for TX-46 between New Braunfels and Boerne. If the portion of "The Circuit" North and East of San Antonio is going to be built it will probably have to be built mostly on a new terrain path.

TX-80 between San Marcos/I-35 and Luling/I-10 could be another freeway "spoke" for the region growing between Austin and San Antonio.
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DJStephens

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2018, 09:46:52 AM »

I remember how surprised I was to find the southern 35/410 interchange to be a simple cloverleaf.

Back when the southern I-35/410 interchange was built, that area was mainly rural but now the urban sprawl had beginned to reach up that area.

No San Antonio native but did spend twelve weeks at Ft. Sam Houston 25 years ago.  The 410 loop is pretty far in, at least by today's standards.  More of an inner loop.  In hindsight perhaps it should been built farther out.  It was probably all farmland in 1960, meaning 410's routing.

1604, once fully built out...will be the “outer loop”

C.W. Anderson Loop.  Yes it should have been "built" out by now, and had a 3di shield slapped on it I-810.    The northern section, just south of Camp Bullis has been limited access for close to twenty five to thirty years.   What is the delay on the rest of it?  Especially with all the funds the tex-dot has.   
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2018, 07:06:50 AM »

Can you guys down in SA send the flyover fairy to OKC when you’re done with it please?
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Bobby5280

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2018, 12:51:30 PM »

Yeah, no kidding. It sure seems like way too much to ask for ODOT or OTA to build a 4 level stack interchange anywhere. The closest thing we have to a fully directional interchange is the one at I-40 & I-44 in Oklahoma City. That one is old and obsolete for the traffic load. Meanwhile, it's literally taking decades for ODOT to re-do the OKC interchanges at I-44 & I-235 as well as I-35 & I-240. Both will have just two flyover ramps and two cloverleaf loops. For such modest interchange designs it's odd that it's taking so long for them to get built. But then I guess we should expect such things with the way Oklahoma has funded its roads.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2018, 03:01:07 PM »

^^^

Yeah, I can’t think of a single freeway to freeway interchange I’m satisfied with in OKC area. They don’t have a T freeway to freeway interchange I like or think is sufficient.

The ones they’re rebuilding now(I-235/I-44 & I-240/I-35) should be 4 or 5 stack directional. OTA interchanges are a joke. Both on the Kilpatrick are missing directions although the one at SH-74 is getting two or three new flyovers which might make it the first fully built directional interchange that doesn’t have left exits(I’m looking at I-35 and I-40/I-44).

I don’t like the I-35/I-44 interchange because of the left exits.

I can only think that OkDOT will focus on the I-44/I-40 interchange after they wrap up work on their existing interchange projects.

Edit to add I completely forget I was in SA thread! LOL sorry for the long off topic post.
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Bobby5280

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2018, 11:33:11 PM »

Yeah, Oklahoma related stuff is off topic. But then we're next door, just on the other side of the river from Texas. That makes the difference between super highways in Oklahoma and Texas that much more glaring obvious.

I can drive 3 hours down to Dallas and see 4 and 5 level directional stack interchanges a-plenty. That includes some of the most impressive highway interchanges on the entire planet, such as the "High Five" interchange at LBJ Freeway and N Central Expressway. If I was going to compile a top 10 highway interchanges in the world list the High Five would definitely be on it.

I do understand Oklahoma has around 1/10th the population of Texas and thus has a much smaller tax base. But then there are neighboring states such as Louisiana and New Mexico that have some of their own impressive directional interchanges.
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DJStephens

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2018, 09:25:19 AM »

   New Mexico only has one.  The reconstructed "big I".  Segmental.  Interchange of I-25 and I-40.  00' to 02'.  Did most of the layout and fitting of the post tensioning ductwork in the individual segments, as well as some of the reinforcement QC.   It replaced the original interchange, mid sixties, which featured Connecticut style L exits and high speed L lane entrances.   
   For the rebuild, some of the Big I flyovers were designed as one lane, some as two lane.  Frankly, in hindsight, all of them should have been two lane.  Not possible to widen a segmental flyover.   I-25 through the interchange should have been eight lanes.  It is six.   The project made great effort also, to connect to an archiac elevated section of I-25 that dates from the late fifties.  South of the project zone.  Instead of including that section also, trenched, widened and straightened.   
   A great opportunity there to improve I-25, via depression, with neighborhood reconnection, and to provide deck parks and green space was missed.   
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 09:16:31 AM by DJStephens »
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Bobby5280

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2018, 06:43:50 PM »

Yeah, it's a shame not all the flyovers of the Big-I interchange are at least 2 lanes wide. For that interchange's flaws, it's still nicer than any interchange in Oklahoma. With some work on the I-40/I-35/I-235 interchange in downtown OKC it could be pretty cool. It really needs a big flyover for EB I-40 to NB I-235. The current cloverleaf loop in that interchange is just plain stupid. But that's what we get when we're cheap.

Texas has very few cast-segmental interchanges. The High Five has segmental sections where the flyovers overlap in the center of the interchange. The rest of the interchange is more conventional. I think the new stack interchange in Florida, at FL-826 & FL-836 (Palmetto & Dolphin Expressways) near Miami International Airport is pretty impressive. It looks like it's all segmental. Nearly all the ramps between the two toll roads are 2 lanes wide. The new interchange with I-10 and Loop 303 West of Phoenix is pretty cool.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2018, 08:02:58 PM »

My favorite flyover continues to be 105/110. I also love the 101/110 interchange even though it is obsolete and deficient. High five comes in a cool third.
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Bobby5280

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2018, 10:25:24 PM »

The I-105/I-110 interchange in LA is impressive, but there are two things I don't like about it. 1: The aesthetics of the bridge pylons and bridge spans is pretty plain. 2: the NB I-110 movement to WB I-105 is a tight 25mph cloverleaf ramp.

The US-101/I-110 interchange in downtown is old, but still an icon of freeway design. Those three "beams" connecting the US-101 roadways at the top of the stack is unique to that interchange.

One of my favorite interchanges is I-95 in Springfield, VA at the Capital Beltway. It wasn't built in a state-of-the-art cast-segmental design. But complexity of the interchange and the roads leading into it (particularly I-95) is mind boggling. I think the interchange with US-1 and the Capital Beltway next to the Woodrow Wilson Bridge is pretty cool as well. It's not a freeway to freeway interchange, but the ramp designs pretty cool looking overhead. I-95 from South of Springfield on over to I-295 across the Potomac is an impressive drive (when it's not in a traffic jam that is).

Back in Texas, I think the recently completed (for now) interchange with I-35W and I-820 in Fort Worth is really impressive. The flyover aesthetics are plain, but jeez, there are so many flyover ramps!
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 10:28:21 PM by Bobby5280 »
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DJStephens

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2018, 06:41:31 PM »

The aesthetics on many of texas' flyovers are lacking.  Mixtures of weathering steel and concrete girders.  Cantilevers in abundance.   Square or rectangular columns instead of round or octagonal.  Too many inlays and decorations.  Box beams, as used in Arizona, Nevada, and California are better visually.   
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2018, 06:58:23 PM »

The I-105/I-110 interchange in LA is impressive, but there are two things I don't like about it. 1: The aesthetics of the bridge pylons and bridge spans is pretty plain. 2: the NB I-110 movement to WB I-105 is a tight 25mph cloverleaf ramp.

The US-101/I-110 interchange in downtown is old, but still an icon of freeway design. Those three "beams" connecting the US-101 roadways at the top of the stack is unique to that interchange.

One of my favorite interchanges is I-95 in Springfield, VA at the Capital Beltway. It wasn't built in a state-of-the-art cast-segmental design. But complexity of the interchange and the roads leading into it (particularly I-95) is mind boggling. I think the interchange with US-1 and the Capital Beltway next to the Woodrow Wilson Bridge is pretty cool as well. It's not a freeway to freeway interchange, but the ramp designs pretty cool looking overhead. I-95 from South of Springfield on over to I-295 across the Potomac is an impressive drive (when it's not in a traffic jam that is).

Back in Texas, I think the recently completed (for now) interchange with I-35W and I-820 in Fort Worth is really impressive. The flyover aesthetics are plain, but jeez, there are so many flyover ramps!
I can forgive the plain Jane designs of the 105/110 interchange because for some reason it just works for me. That’s the case with many California interchanges, IMO.

I agree with you about that cloverleaf. It needs to be flyover. Should that ever happen, it will be a tall and expansive one at that!
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Bobby5280

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Re: The flyover fairy finally blesses San Antonio
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2018, 09:14:21 PM »

Quote from: DJStephens
The aesthetics on many of texas' flyovers are lacking.  Mixtures of weathering steel and concrete girders.  Cantilevers in abundance.   Square or rectangular columns instead of round or octagonal.  Too many inlays and decorations.  Box beams, as used in Arizona, Nevada, and California are better visually.

Agreed for the most part. I don't mind the stars and other pieces of ornamentation on the bridge piers. It's better than just a plain Stonehenge-like block, which is all you get with a bunch of the new flyovers in Fort Worth. I wish Texas could build some interchanges more like the new I-10 & Loop 303 interchange. The pre-cast segmental bridge designs of that interchange yield a much cleaner and perhaps even elegant look. All the exposed straight beams of so many Texas flyovers makes the bridge curves jagged, heavy and clunky looking.

My guess is Texas follows that flyover construction design because is probably costs less. I think they want to build more directional interchanges rather than spend the same amount of money on fewer, yet better looking interchanges. I think the High Five Interchange in Dallas is still the only stack interchange in Texas that uses any pre-cast segmental bridge construction. It's really a hybrid of two bridge construction types. The usual method is applied on all the approach portions of the flyovers. The pre-cast segmental method is only used in the center of the interchange where the ramps overlap (and longer spans between piers is needed). 
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