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Author Topic: WA 509  (Read 512 times)

Max Rockatansky

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WA 509
« on: May 08, 2018, 12:42:22 AM »

The second clinch of the current trip was WA 509 (at least I think).  Decently curvy road from 99 to I-705.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskAMhidq

Several questions popped into my head while driving this route:

-  Why is the signage between the end of the freeway south of SeaTac so shitty on the surface streets? 
-  Is 509 actually a gapped route or is 516 and 99 considered to be a continuation to Dash Point Road?

I'll work up something on this one later this week.  I'm looking forward to digging into some old maps on 509, it seems too weird not to have an interesting back story.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 03:17:10 PM by Bickendan »
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: WA 509
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2018, 04:54:45 PM »

Kacie Jane

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Re: WA 509
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 03:03:18 PM »

  • With the exception of 99, I think most surface street SRs in that area have pretty poor signage.
  • Yes, it technically follows 516 and 99. The mileposts don't line up though, because the northern "independent" section used to be longer, continuing past 516 and meeting 99 at 16th Ave south of 272nd Street.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: WA 509
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2018, 10:31:31 PM »

  • With the exception of 99, I think most surface street SRs in that area have pretty poor signage.
  • Yes, it technically follows 516 and 99. The mileposts don't line up though, because the northern "independent" section used to be longer, continuing past 516 and meeting 99 at 16th Ave south of 272nd Street.

I'm assuming the section on 16th survived a little while after being renumbered from 1V.  Any idea when it might have been decommissioned?

Kacie Jane

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Re: WA 509
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2018, 01:28:50 PM »

Much longer than that.  I'm not 100% sure, but it may have been 1992, when a bunch of SRs were changed.
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Bruce

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Re: WA 509
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2018, 08:30:37 PM »

According to an old USGS topo map from 1976, SR 509 used to follow 16th Avenue, then cut west down Woodmont Drive and continued north on Marine Drive through Saltwater State Park.

Max Rockatansky

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Re: WA 509
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2018, 08:37:55 PM »

According to an old USGS topo map from 1976, SR 509 used to follow 16th Avenue, then cut west down Woodmont Drive and continued north on Marine Drive through Saltwater State Park.

Out of curiosity do you happen to have a link to that USGS map?  It would make a handy addition to the blog post above if you have it.

ErmineNotyours

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Re: WA 509
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2018, 10:22:22 PM »

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Max Rockatansky

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Re: WA 509
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2018, 10:30:55 PM »

I do have links to 1978/1981 topos:

https://store.usgs.gov/product/287147
https://store.usgs.gov/product/286563

Thanks, I'll get the post updated as soon as I get some free time. 

Bruce

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Re: WA 509
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2018, 04:06:43 PM »

Alternatively, you can use the USGS/ESRI viewer to scroll through several topo maps at once, with the option of downloading once you find one you like.

thefraze_1020

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Re: WA 509
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2018, 10:16:23 AM »

Max, I have some resources for you that I'm not sure you know about already.

The first is Historic Map Works. They have maps to view from just about anywhere, but particularly good coverage in Washington State. Several years ago, they purchased all the archives from Metsker Maps, a long-time Western Washington map company. They also have a few Kroll maps here and there to view as well. Kroll has been around for years, based in Seattle. You view any maps for free, but in order to download, you need a paid account.

www.historicmapworks.com

Also, there is Historic Aerials. They have not only aerial photos from all over the US (from various years), but also USGS topo maps from various years as well. Again, it is free to view these as well.

www.historicaerials.com

Be sure to check out the website Highways of Washington State. It is run by Mark Bozanich, who is a retired cartographer for WSDOT. He definitely knows his stuff about Washington's road history. The only issue with this website is that it is hosted by AngelFire, and there are tons of obnoxious pop-up ads.

www.angelfire.com/wa2/hwysofwastate/

Finally, if it is questions about highway changes in Washington, feel free to contact me personally. I have a collection of almost 4,000 road maps, with a primary focus on the Pacific Northwest. I have a map of Seattle, Tacoma, Washington, etc from almost every year from the mid-1930's to present. So if you have a question, I can hopefully find you the answer.
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thefraze_1020

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Re: WA 509
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2018, 12:20:13 PM »

I realize that we have been discussing SR 509 on the SR 599 thread, but I will post here some clarification regarding SR 509.

First, my post about it from the 599 thread:

OK, so SR 509 (and SSH 1V before it) headed south into downtown Des Moines. At the split between Marine View Drive and the Kent-Des Moines Road, originally (at least after the 1964 renumbering), SR 516 began heading east on the Kent-Des Moines Road. SR 509 turned right to head south on Marine View Drive, across the bridge over Saltwater State Park. Originally this segment was added to the state highway system in 1937. Anyway, originally, 509 curved left at Woodmont Drive. Then it took a right at 16th Ave S, and joined SR 99 where 16th Ave S meets Pacific Hwy/ SR 99.

This changed in 1992. The segment of SR 509 from junction 516, on Marine View Drive, Woodmont, and 16th was removed from state maintenance effective April 1, 1992. Now, officially 509 is concurrent with 516 from the corner of Marine View Drive and Kent-Des Moines Road to junction SR 99 at Midway. Then 509 (on paper) turns south and is concurrent with 99 until it splits off at Dash Point Road. However, as you pointed out, signage to this effect is almost completely non-existent, leading one to believe there is simply a gap in SR 509. But, as I was through the area recently, I saw an older (likely early 90's) sign on northbound Marine View Drive (ex-509), just before the light at Kent-Des Moines Road that says 509 north to the left, 509 south to the right, and begin 516 east to the right. I took a picture of this sign, but I have yet to upload it to Flickr.

Here is the 509/ 516 sign referenced above.
IMG_9072 by Cameron Frazer, on Flickr

This is a scan of the 1991 Washington official map for this area.
1991 WA Official SR 509-001-crop by Cameron Frazer, on Flickr

And the 1992 Washington official (as mentioned above, SR 509 was realigned effective April 1, 1992).
1992 WA Official SR 509-001-crop by Cameron Frazer, on Flickr
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: WA 509
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 01:12:06 PM »

I realize that we have been discussing SR 509 on the SR 599 thread, but I will post here some clarification regarding SR 509.

First, my post about it from the 599 thread:

OK, so SR 509 (and SSH 1V before it) headed south into downtown Des Moines. At the split between Marine View Drive and the Kent-Des Moines Road, originally (at least after the 1964 renumbering), SR 516 began heading east on the Kent-Des Moines Road. SR 509 turned right to head south on Marine View Drive, across the bridge over Saltwater State Park. Originally this segment was added to the state highway system in 1937. Anyway, originally, 509 curved left at Woodmont Drive. Then it took a right at 16th Ave S, and joined SR 99 where 16th Ave S meets Pacific Hwy/ SR 99.

This changed in 1992. The segment of SR 509 from junction 516, on Marine View Drive, Woodmont, and 16th was removed from state maintenance effective April 1, 1992. Now, officially 509 is concurrent with 516 from the corner of Marine View Drive and Kent-Des Moines Road to junction SR 99 at Midway. Then 509 (on paper) turns south and is concurrent with 99 until it splits off at Dash Point Road. However, as you pointed out, signage to this effect is almost completely non-existent, leading one to believe there is simply a gap in SR 509. But, as I was through the area recently, I saw an older (likely early 90's) sign on northbound Marine View Drive (ex-509), just before the light at Kent-Des Moines Road that says 509 north to the left, 509 south to the right, and begin 516 east to the right. I took a picture of this sign, but I have yet to upload it to Flickr.

Here is the 509/ 516 sign referenced above.
IMG_9072 by Cameron Frazer, on Flickr

This is a scan of the 1991 Washington official map for this area.
1991 WA Official SR 509-001-crop by Cameron Frazer, on Flickr

And the 1992 Washington official (as mentioned above, SR 509 was realigned effective April 1, 1992).
1992 WA Official SR 509-001-crop by Cameron Frazer, on Flickr

Perfect, I’ll get the 509 blog post updates as soon as I can.  Really appreciate the scans. 

 


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