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[bugo]

From what I understand it's illegal to pass on the right on the Autobahn.  What happens if you are driving along at say 75 MPH and come across somebody parked in the left lane going 55?  Do you legally have to slow down to his speed?  I know left lane blocking is also illegal, but what would be the legal thing to do in this situation?

Yesterday I was driving down a freeway with a 70 MPH speed limit.  I came upon a truck camped out in the left lane going about 60.  I got behind him, he wouldn't budge, so I passed him on the right, then got right in front of him and slowed down to about 55.  He finally got mad and got in the right lane, so I quickly sped up to 75.  It's sad that you have to do that to get other drivers to drive properly in this country.  And there are anti-LLB laws in Oklahoma, they're just not enforced.

[shoptb1]

From what I understand it's illegal to pass on the right on the Autobahn.  What happens if you are driving along at say 75 MPH and come across somebody parked in the left lane going 55?  Do you legally have to slow down to his speed?  I know left lane blocking is also illegal, but what would be the legal thing to do in this situation?

Yesterday I was driving down a freeway with a 70 MPH speed limit.  I came upon a truck camped out in the left lane going about 60.  I got behind him, he wouldn't budge, so I passed him on the right, then got right in front of him and slowed down to about 55.  He finally got mad and got in the right lane, so I quickly sped up to 75.  It's sad that you have to do that to get other drivers to drive properly in this country.  And there are anti-LLB laws in Oklahoma, they're just not enforced.

Man, I feel your frustration.   While I lived in Germany, I never really faced this issue for a couple of reasons.  On non-congested roads, German drivers are very well-trained about staying out of the left-hand lane.  The left-hand lane is for passing only, and you can literally get yourself killed by much faster-paced vehicles.  If you do find someone in the left-hand lane and you wish to pass, Germans will honk their horns and flash their lights...and I've found that they are quite insistent on the person moving...as camping in the left-hand lane can be reported as a highly-fined offense to the Autobahnpolizei.  However, passing on the right-hand side is HIGHLY ILLEGAL and can get one's driver's license revoked.  Considering that the average German driver's license costs about $2,000 to attain...it's not worth the gamble.  Also, consider that the typical German driver is far more skilled at driving and versed in the laws than their American counterparts; mainly because it is a requirement in Germany to receive about 40 hours of professional driving instruction.  (part of the $2,000)

I remember the frustration I experienced upon returning to the US and the ignorant way that people just plant themselves in the left-hand lane, oblivious to the road (and world) around them.  Even though it's illegal...it's never enforced.  What's even more frustrating is that it seems that some drivers think that it's their prerogative to enforce the speed limits by sitting in the left-hand lane, when the truth is that this is also illegal. 

I know that I would be in support of tougher requirements to attain a driver's license in the US; but then again, until we have a much more widely-available public transit system here similar to Europe...driving in many areas is a requirement and not a luxury like it is in Europe.  This is the reason that I believe that the rules are more relaxed here, and I'm not sure that I see that changing in the near future

[Chris]

It's illegal to pass on the right in all European countries, except where they drive on the left (U.K., Ireland) of course.

I have to add Germans don't unnecessary drive in the left lane like you see in the United States. Automobiles are usually not going slower than 70 - 75 mph in the left lane, unless there's a reason for it. If somebody passes a truck, they will swing to the left just before they pass the truck, stay in the left lane as short as possible, and immediately swing to the right once they have passed the truck. No unnecessary left-lane banditry.

Although you do have the occasional left-lane hogger who wants to overtake a bunch of trucks driving further apart, it's very unlikely they do that at 55 mph. More like 75 or 80 mph.

I have to add most Germans don't drive as fast as they used to. Traffic volumes, and truck volumes in particular have picked up dramatically in the past 10 years, so most people don't exceed 90 - 95 mph. Only on very quiet Autobahns, you have people doing 100 - 120 mph.

By the way, trucks are forbidden to drive on Sundays (except perishable goods), so that's the most relaxing day to drive. You can just hang in the right lane at 75 - 80 mph for miles without having the need to pass a bunch of trucks. If I plan to drive across all of Germany (for example to Austria or Switzerland), I try to do this on Sundays.

[J N Winkler]

I have had some experience with driver licensing and training in Britain, so I have to disagree respectfully with the suggestion that a German-style driver licensing system be adopted in the US.  In fact, IRTAD 1998 data suggests that the German fatality rate on motorways (deaths per billion vehicle km) is only about 10% lower than ours despite the much more stringent licensing procedures.  For that matter, countries like France, Spain, and Portugal have traditionally had higher fatality rates on motorways than Britain (which has had the EEA's lowest fatality rate for a long time) despite somewhat more rigorous training procedures which include mandated professional driving instruction.  In general, EEA countries have driving tests which are far more strict than those used in nearly all US states with the exception of California, yet our own motorway fatality rate is in the middle of the spread of theirs.  More than twice as many people die on the Autobahnen per billion vehicle km than die on British motorways despite the fact that Britain does not have a professional driving instruction requirement.

It has been my experience that driver licensing systems as rigorous as those used in Europe tend to breed drivers with a strong sense of entitlement--i.e., "If I can see that you are not driving in accord with the recommended best practice, I am entitled to teach you a lesson."  This is totally contrary to the mantra of defensive driving, hazard perception, and always leaving yourself an "out" which we try to stress in formal driver instruction in the US.  Obviously the European system does set a fairly high threshold of motor and cognitive skill which new drivers have to cross--there is no question of people being licensed when they are barely able to operate the controls, as happens with brand-new drivers in many US states--but the attitude of entitlement inevitably claws back some of the safety benefits of the more thorough training.  And in general European driving tests have historically been weak on hazard perception, although this aspect has been beefed up in Norway, Sweden, and Britain (the last two of which are, together with the Netherlands and Switzerland, the EEA leaders in road safety).

Some other considerations:

*  I think our problem with fast-lane crawling in the US results less from lack of driver socialization and more from the police relying on speed not just as a revenue source but also as the marker for other driving problems.  This encourages drivers to "fly under the radar" by attempting overtaking maneuvers on very low speed differentials.  There is a case to be made for following the California example of putting about the word that the police will generally leave you alone if you speed up (even if it is above the speed limit) to complete an overtaking maneuver, but squash you like a bug if you unreasonably delay someone else attempting a similar maneuver.

*  I sympathize with the intent behind KRETP laws, but I think they are ineffective.  The problem is that speeding violations are generally strict liability, while it is a matter of individual judgment whether fast-lane crawling is causing undue inconvenience to other drivers.  In situations where completion of an overtaking maneuver would mean exceeding the speed limit, it puts police officers in the invidious position of pulling over drivers for not facilitating third parties' violations of the law.  Also, how do you determine whether someone in the left lane is unreasonably delaying someone else who wants to pass?  Do you declare that person to be imposing unreasonable delay if a following vehicle has to change speed or position to "wait" to pass?  What if the following vehicle had not initiated its own overtaking maneuver before the first vehicle had started to overtake?  What if the first vehicle has almost completed the overtaking maneuver (i.e., passed the slower car and left almost a two-second following distance in front of it) when the following vehicle speeds up the first vehicle's tailpipe:  is it legally required to cut the overtaken vehicle off by pulling in too early?  Returning to the generalities of the issue, there is also a lot of potential mischief in making left-lane blocking a strict liability offense, defining it as one that occurs whenever a following vehicle has to change speed to wait to pass, and thus giving the driver of the offending vehicle an incentive to drive far faster than he or she feels comfortable with just to avoid being nailed for speeding and blocking the left lane.

*  Making overtaking on the wrong side (or "undertaking" as it is sometimes called in Britain) a strict liability offense has its own problems in congested traffic (LOS E on an urban motorway, for example), since the fast lane may very well be moving more slowly than the other lanes at any given time.  This is one reason why (IIRC) undertaking is not an offense per se in Britain and the Highway Code notes that it is often unavoidable in queues.

*  I agree it is a pleasure to share the road with other drivers who know what they are doing--things move along very fluidly.  But such situations do not occur that often.  I have found it is easier to drive defensively if I say to myself, "What adjustments to my driving do I need to make to accommodate the capabilities the other drivers are demonstrating?" rather than, "Why is everyone else so bad?"  This approach is not foolproof--for example, I still get irritated by people who insist at driving at 80 MPH in an urban 60 and changing multiple lanes at a time so they can pass slower cars on either side--but even then it does reduce stress.

[J N Winkler]

By the way, trucks are forbidden to drive on Sundays (except perishable goods), so that's the most relaxing day to drive. You can just hang in the right lane at 75 - 80 mph for miles without having the need to pass a bunch of trucks. If I plan to drive across all of Germany (for example to Austria or Switzerland), I try to do this on Sundays.

The other side of the coin is that the EU mandates differential speed limits for trucks and the percentage of freight that goes by road in the EU is much larger than in the US.  This means that the right-hand lane (or far left-hand lane in countries where traffic circulates on the left) is often a no-go area for cars.  In the US some states have differential speed limits while others don't, and a FHWA study several years ago on the benefit to safety of differential speed limits was unable to produce a conclusive result.  My personal impression is that in states which have differential limits and well-defined truck corridors (California and I-5 in the Central Valley come to mind), the differential leads to severe driver frustration (especially when trucks attempt to overtake on microscopic differences in speed) and possibly deleterious effects on safety as well.

[realjd]

Yesterday I was driving down a freeway with a 70 MPH speed limit.  I came upon a truck camped out in the left lane going about 60.  I got behind him, he wouldn't budge, so I passed him on the right, then got right in front of him and slowed down to about 55.  He finally got mad and got in the right lane, so I quickly sped up to 75.  It's sad that you have to do that to get other drivers to drive properly in this country.  And there are anti-LLB laws in Oklahoma, they're just not enforced.

I feel your pain. I really do. Living in Florida, this problem is way too common. There have been times driving down the freeway where it felt more like the UK than the US: slow traffic on the left, people moved right to pass.

That being said, it's not your place to police the roads. What you did was extraordinarily dangerous, both for yourself, the other driver, and for others on the road. The other driver was a jerk, but cutting him off and slowing down only makes the situation worse for everyone. What if that driver had a bad temper? What if he had a gun? I've known people to get followed and screamed at for much less than that.

I've met one or two folks over the years who intentionally drive the speed limit in the left lane. Their argument is that they're going the speed limit, anyone who wants to pass is speeding, so therefore they're doing the public a favor by forcing traffic to slow down. All it leads to is angry drivers behind who have to perform risky maneuvers to get around. What you did is no different. It's no more your place to enforce left lane laws than it is for them to enforce speed limits.

Was there heavy traffic? If not, and passing on the right was easy enough, just go around and be done with it. If he's creating a serious traffic hazard by being there, causing risky driving behaviors in other drivers trying to get around him, call the cops. If Oklahoma is anything like Florida, the highway patrol will solve that problem very quickly.

[realjd]

The other side of the coin is that the EU mandates differential speed limits for trucks and the percentage of freight that goes by road in the EU is much larger than in the US.  This means that the right-hand lane (or far left-hand lane in countries where traffic circulates on the left) is often a no-go area for cars.  In the US some states have differential speed limits while others don't, and a FHWA study several years ago on the benefit to safety of differential speed limits was unable to produce a conclusive result.  My personal impression is that in states which have differential limits and well-defined truck corridors (California and I-5 in the Central Valley come to mind), the differential leads to severe driver frustration (especially when trucks attempt to overtake on microscopic differences in speed) and possibly deleterious effects on safety as well.

I was just up in Indiana for business. Truck speed limit is 65 there while it's 70 for cars. It was terrible. There were enough trucks that it essentially forced all cars - even the slow ones - into the left lane, which meant 65-70 the entire time, and let to aggressive driving in the folks wanting to go faster.

[MikeTheActuary]

I've met one or two folks over the years who intentionally drive the speed limit in the left lane. Their argument is that they're going the speed limit, anyone who wants to pass is speeding, so therefore they're doing the public a favor by forcing traffic to slow down. All it leads to is angry drivers behind who have to perform risky maneuvers to get around. What you did is no different. It's no more your place to enforce left lane laws than it is for them to enforce speed limits.

Well said!

Left-lane blockers and overly-aggressive drivers are annoying.  However, life is too short to waste much energy or stress over such idiocy...and really, when driving most of your attention should be focused on driving as efficiently and as safely as you can, allowing for the imperfections and unpredictable nature of other drivers and road hazards, rather than stewing over the behavior of another driver, or attempts to teach him/her a lesson.

If others' disregard for traffic laws and traffic conventions really bothers you that much, perhaps you should consider joining the highway patrol.

I'm reminded of what the instructor in my drivers' ed class called the Golden Rule of Interstate Driving:

When driving on the freeway, avoid doing anything that would require you to use the brake pedal, or which would require someone else to react by using their brakes.  Almost every other law or custom is secondary to this rule.

The "almost" is in there to avoid having to argue much with teenagers out to find loopholes.  Obviously a public high school teacher wouldn't want to be accused of saying that "speeding is OK" or that a driver shouldn't use the brakes to avoid an accident. 

Those realities aside, you've got to admit that freeways would be far more pleasant and efficient to drive if everyone adhered to that golden rule.

[aswnl]

I know that I would be in support of tougher requirements to attain a driver's license in the US; but then again, until we have a much more widely-available public transit system here similar to Europe...driving in many areas is a requirement and not a luxury like it is in Europe.

Driving isn't a luxury in Europe either. Public transport only has about 10-15% of all motorised personkilometers, the rest is by car.
There's really no reason why US citizens can pick up their license just like buying anything else at the supermarket...

[3467]

Illinois just dropped the differential on teh Interstates but not the 4 lane expressways It is still 55-65 which makes sense because there are at grades and trucks have a longer breaking distance
I suspect the 9 fatalities last year on the Illinois Tollway system is about the lowest rate in the world
Oh yes Illinois passed teh lane hog rule too but I suspect like OK it hasnt been too strictly enforced esp when all teh metri Interstates are 55 and the rural areas just ar not that busy

[Truvelo]

I've had my fair share of lane hogs today. On an almost deserted 6-lane M6 motorway in the north of England this morning I've passed countless numbers of drivers who were sitting in the fast lane when there's hardly any traffic around. Despite claims that passing on the wrong side is dangerous and/or illegal I just stay where I am and 'undertake' the lane hog. The fact that the middle lane acts as a buffer means there's less chance of a collision. In some ways I prefer Germany's system whereby lane hogs are subjected to a barrage of flashing and honking. Over here I find too many people accept lane hogging as routine. I find it's worse on 8-lane stretches where you often find people using the faster lanes by default when the slower lanes are available. It just reduces capacity and ends up with a long line of tightly bunched cars in the fast lane, crazy

[J N Winkler]

There's really no reason why US citizens can pick up their license just like buying anything else at the supermarket...

They don't.  The licensing process is usually less strict than in Europe but in several states it is quite strict.  There is no state left where you can obtain a driving license without taking a road test or showing that you have taken driving lessons.  Quite a few states have logbook requirements as well.  It is common for Europeans to fail California's driving test first time.

[bugo]

I flash my lights sometimes but I've basically given up on it because nobody ever gets over.  Florida is a flashing state. 

[Truvelo]

I flash my lights sometimes but I've basically given up on it because nobody ever gets over.  Florida is a flashing state. 

Solution - fit alternating flashers to your headlights. That'll make people get outta your way

[vdeane]

In NY, keep right except to pass just wouldn't work at all even if enforced.  We use all of our lanes to full capacity.

[burgess87]

In NY, keep right except to pass just wouldn't work at all even if enforced.  We use all of our lanes to full capacity.

Doesn't work on the Thruway - and I never see it enforced.

[agentsteel53]

the German fatality rate on motorways (deaths per billion vehicle km) is only about 10% lower than ours despite the much more stringent licensing procedures.

and the higher speed limits, and the higher road congestion rates ... I don't think 10% is anything to shake a stick at.

EEA countries have driving tests which are far more strict than those used in nearly all US states with the exception of California

California's driving test is not strict, it is just obtuse.  I remember taking a test and they asked me something ridiculous like how many feet away would I have to be from a railroad crossing, in the fog, marked "exempt", and several other parameters, before slowing down to come to a stop - and the multiple-choice answers were something like "300", "325", "350" and "375".  What that sort of over-precision has to do with being a good driver is beyond me.  

drivers with a strong sense of entitlement--i.e., "If I can see that you are not driving in accord with the recommended best practice, I am entitled to teach you a lesson."

I don't think that this is nearly as bad, compared to the American entitlement of "I can run stop signs at will because I drive a nicer car than you".  

in general European driving tests have historically been weak on hazard perception

I do not believe American tests are particularly strong in this aspect either - as I mentioned, it seems to be a high proportion of pedantry with little practical wisdom imparted.  To this day I know formally how many feet apart to set obstruction-warning cones or flares or reflectors when I invariably suffer a flat tire (three flat tires in 470K miles driven, and have never had to put out warning beacons; it's not exactly a popular occurrence) but the only reason I know how to avoid a moose standing dead-to-rights in the Number One Lane is because of quick reflexes.

giving the driver of the offending vehicle an incentive to drive far faster than he or she feels comfortable with just to avoid being nailed for speeding and blocking the left lane.

or the offending driver could move to the right lane.

the fast lane may very well be moving more slowly than the other lanes at any given time.

this should not be a problem, even in heavy traffic, if drivers would know to keep to the right in general.  Perhaps at exits and entrances, but on the open road, the fast lane should not be moving more slowly than the lanes to its right.

"What adjustments to my driving do I need to make to accommodate the capabilities the other drivers are demonstrating?" rather than, "Why is everyone else so bad?"

the First Rule of Effective Driving: "if you do not see the problem - you are the problem."  

[J N Winkler]

The German fatality rate on motorways (deaths per billion vehicle km) is only about 10% lower than ours despite the much more stringent licensing procedures.

and the higher speed limits, and the higher road congestion rates ... I don't think 10% is anything to shake a stick at.

I was trying to undercut a lower fatality rate as an argument for German-style licensing procedures.  If that were really a consideration, we would be better off following the example either of Britain or Switzerland.  (From memory, IRTAD's 1998 tabulated motorway fatality rates in deaths per billion vehicle km are 5.2, 4.5, 2.5, and 2.2 for the USA, Germany, Switzerland, and Britain respectively.  The reference networks for computing these rates are actual motorways in the latter three countries, and Interstate highways only--i.e., no non-Interstate freeways regardless of whether Interstate-compatible or not--in the US.)

Driver training procedures in the UK emphasize the KRETP equivalent less than others have reported is the case for Germany.

Of course traffic volumes, speed limits, access to emergency services, ages of eligibility for a driver's license, etc. all make a difference, but these differences are less pronounced between the UK and Germany than between either country and the US.  I think in general we do quite well considering that we allow teenagers to obtain unrestricted licenses at age 16, have many states with very forgiving attitudes toward repeat DUI offenders, and have long lengths of Interstate highway without easy access to major trauma centers except by air ambulance.

EEA countries have driving tests which are far more strict than those used in nearly all US states with the exception of California

California's driving test is not strict, it is just obtuse.  I remember taking a test and they asked me something ridiculous like how many feet away would I have to be from a railroad crossing, in the fog, marked "exempt", and several other parameters, before slowing down to come to a stop - and the multiple-choice answers were something like "300", "325", "350" and "375".  What that sort of over-precision has to do with being a good driver is beyond me.

I need to clarify:  I was talking about the behind-the-wheel test, not the written test (what Britons would call the "practical" test rather than the "theory" test).  California actually has two different versions of the "EXEMPT" sign, but that is pissant stuff.  One reason the California behind-the-wheel test is demanding is that it requires drivers to show what the examiners call "confidence."  In other words, if you take too long to accept a gap when pulling out from a stop sign, or make heavy weather of changing lane with lots of unnecessary glances over your shoulder, you fail.

drivers with a strong sense of entitlement--i.e., "If I can see that you are not driving in accord with the recommended best practice, I am entitled to teach you a lesson."

I don't think that this is nearly as bad, compared to the American entitlement of "I can run stop signs at will because I drive a nicer car than you".

I haven't seen that.  I see a lot of drivers making maneuvers which force other drivers to change speed or direction, but coping with that kind of misbehavior is what defensive driving is all about.

in general European driving tests have historically been weak on hazard perception

I do not believe American tests are particularly strong in this aspect either - as I mentioned, it seems to be a high proportion of pedantry with little practical wisdom imparted.  To this day I know formally how many feet apart to set obstruction-warning cones or flares or reflectors when I invariably suffer a flat tire (three flat tires in 470K miles driven, and have never had to put out warning beacons; it's not exactly a popular occurrence) but the only reason I know how to avoid a moose standing dead-to-rights in the Number One Lane is because of quick reflexes.

Our driver education courses (which in many states could be used in lieu of an actual driving test--I used this mechanism when I got my Kansas license in 1992) do stress hazard perception.  The standard example in my driver's education class was a ball bouncing out into the street.

. . . giving the driver of the offending vehicle an incentive to drive far faster than he or she feels comfortable with just to avoid being nailed for speeding and blocking the left lane.

or the offending driver could move to the right lane.

On the public highway, nobody has a greater right to clear road ahead than anyone else.  On a length of road signed for 65 MPH, what good purpose is served by the driver hitting 80 MPH overtaking a 64-MPH vehicle giving way to someone who wants to do 100 MPH?  The answer to this question will not be the same in all cases and often will not be obvious, but arguably (taking the "Golden Rule of Interstate driving" into consideration) the preferred solution is the one that produces the least disruption to smooth traffic flow given the particular circumstances.  In some cases this will mean the 80 MPH car completing the overtaking maneuver, and in others it will mean allowing the 100 MPH car to blow past.

the fast lane may very well be moving more slowly than the other lanes at any given time.

this should not be a problem, even in heavy traffic, if drivers would know to keep to the right in general.  Perhaps at exits and entrances, but on the open road, the fast lane should not be moving more slowly than the lanes to its right.

Sorry.  It is a problem in queues, even among a community of disciplined drivers.  Part of the reason is that it is physically impossible to obey a KRETP rule if there is no vacant space in the right-hand lane, and vacant spaces are rare in queued traffic.  I don't think even the Autobahnpolizei attempt to enforce KRETP on, say, the really congested lengths of the Stuttgart motorway spur.

Another problem I have with KRETP laws is that they can lead to a perverse incentive to pull back in too early, thus creating problems for drivers who try to maintain a minimum two-second following distance.  Instead of straight KRETP, I would rather see drivers adhere to an ethic of maintaining the minimum two-second following distance and maintaining continuous passing opportunity for faster vehicles to the extent that is possible given road geometry and traffic volumes.  The preference should be for doing this by KRETP because this leaves the passing lane in a consistent position with respect to the road centerline (i.e., removes the necessity to carry out dangerous slalom maneuvers around left-lane crawlers).  But absolutist adherence to KRETP makes little sense once LOS has dropped past a certain point and also if it means making maneuvers (such as cutting back in too early) which other drivers could construe as aggression.

[agentsteel53]

One reason the California behind-the-wheel test is demanding is that it requires drivers to show what the examiners call "confidence."  In other words, if you take too long to accept a gap when pulling out from a stop sign, or make heavy weather of changing lane with lots of unnecessary glances over your shoulder, you fail.

yet somehow, people pass this test and become ... California drivers.  Not so good.  I've always thought one should have to pass the driving test in a stick shift vehicle - this makes you significantly more aware of the road and the other drivers around you.

I haven't seen that.  I see a lot of drivers making maneuvers which force other drivers to change speed or direction, but coping with that kind of misbehavior is what defensive driving is all about.

oh, I've seen all sorts of horrific driving practices - I've had a person run a stop sign and then, after I averted a collision with very little room to spare, stop the car in the middle of the intersection and get out and argue!.  People are aggressive dolts - and I am quite sure each of these people has passed a "practical" test that apparently pronounced them to be otherwise.

The standard example in my driver's education class was a ball bouncing out into the street.

a ball??  You run it over if you need be, keeping an eye out for the human who is invariably following it!  Now a moose on the other hand, that's a road hazard.

On the public highway, nobody has a greater right to clear road ahead than anyone else.  On a length of road signed for 65 MPH, what good purpose is served by the driver hitting 80 MPH overtaking a 64-MPH vehicle giving way to someone who wants to do 100 MPH?

I am not sure what you mean here by "good purpose" - there is no situation in which the driver doing 64 being in the left lane is advantageous towards traffic flow compared to him doing 64 in the right lane.

creating problems for drivers who try to maintain a minimum two-second following distance.

this is certainly something American drivers have trouble with.  I've noticed that my keeping a long gap behind the driver in front of me is incentive for someone to cut in.  There needs to be a more universal understanding of "that space is not for you - it's for me", but alas there isn't.

pretty much, the point I am trying to make is, drivers pass their driving tests (no matter how obtuse or difficult or stressing the confidence aspects of not hesitating after a four-way stop or what have you) and are nonetheless ridiculously shitty drivers. 

I've always thought that the US's obsession with speeding is getting in the way of clearing the roads of people who simply drive like jackasses.  Yes, speeding is easy to prosecute for revenue purposes, but I'd rather have the right lane doing two under the limit and the left lane doing 50 over, as opposed to people ducking, weaving, drifting, colliding with the median out of inattention, having their left turn signal on for 39 miles and then doing a sudden right turn, you name it.  That is the sort of thing that should be enforced with heavy fines and a loss of a license. 

[vdeane]

Many people drive better specifically to pass the test and then revert to their normal driving habits.

In NY, anything that isn't normal driving in a residential neighborhood isn't on the road test.  Even the written test is ridiculously easy (basically if you can read you can pass it... one question even contained the answer to another question in a blatantly obvious manner).  Driver's ed varies by program - some a good, but others are just a means to get the mv 285 that gives an insurance discount and an unrestricted license at 17.  You can't even get a license at 16 (well, there is a limited junior "license", but it's really a glorified learner's permit that lets you drive to work on your own), even if you pass the test and driver's ed.

As I said before, you'll never see keep right to pass working in NY as all the lanes of major roads are filled to capacity in normal hours (and beyond capacity in rush hour, but it still flows as people have learned how to drive the speed limit even when changing lanes is physically impossible).

[J N Winkler]

oh, I've seen all sorts of horrific driving practices - I've had a person run a stop sign and then, after I averted a collision with very little room to spare, stop the car in the middle of the intersection and get out and argue!.  People are aggressive dolts - and I am quite sure each of these people has passed a "practical" test that apparently pronounced them to be otherwise.

They probably did.  It has long been my suspicion that this type of aggressive behavior becomes more likely the harder the driving test is.

On the public highway, nobody has a greater right to clear road ahead than anyone else.  On a length of road signed for 65 MPH, what good purpose is served by the driver hitting 80 MPH overtaking a 64-MPH vehicle giving way to someone who wants to do 100 MPH?

I am not sure what you mean here by "good purpose" - there is no situation in which the driver doing 64 being in the left lane is advantageous towards traffic flow compared to him doing 64 in the right lane.

The purpose of this example was to illustrate the problem of defining when an overtaking driver is causing unreasonable delay to a faster vehicle which also wishes to overtake the same slow vehicle.  Both the 80 MPH and 100 MPH cars would be using the left-hand lane to pass a 64 MPH car in the right-hand lane.  So the question becomes:  who gets to pass the 64 MPH car first?

creating problems for drivers who try to maintain a minimum two-second following distance.

this is certainly something American drivers have trouble with.  I've noticed that my keeping a long gap behind the driver in front of me is incentive for someone to cut in.  There needs to be a more universal understanding of "that space is not for you - it's for me", but alas there isn't.

Nope, there isn't.  Coping with that sort of discourteous behavior is a big part of defensive driving.  My own approach is to see whether the car that has just cut in front of me will exit, or put on speed and give me back my two-second following distance.  If it doesn't, I then consider dropping back (which is nowadays very easy to do with cruise-control systems which have pushbutton cancel capability).

pretty much, the point I am trying to make is, drivers pass their driving tests (no matter how obtuse or difficult or stressing the confidence aspects of not hesitating after a four-way stop or what have you) and are nonetheless ridiculously shitty drivers.

I agree with this and, as a consequence, I do not believe that rigorous driver testing or training is a panacea for bad driving.  It is useful for weeding out drivers who cannot demonstrate a certain minimum level of physical competence even for a relatively brief road test, but the real reason Germans exhibit good lane discipline is that KRETP has been embedded in German driving culture since before the Autobahnen were constructed.  The early Italian autostrade (which were actually single-carriageway roads with bifurcations on the level and no continuous passing opportunity) had "TENERE LA DESTRA" signs, while the Cologne-Bonn Autostrasse (which opened in 1932, before Hitler came to power) was also single-carriageway, but with two lanes in each direction, different-colored pavement for the slow and fast lane, and billboard-style signs indicating graphically that the left lane in each direction was for passing only.  The Nazis did their part after 1933, with a standard black-on-white red-bordered reminder sign saying, among other things, that the left lane on Autobahnen was for passing only.  (The full legend in German:  "Nur für Kraftfahrzeuge – Rechts fahren – Links überholen – Nicht auf der Fahrbahn wenden – Fahrkurse nicht gestattet.")

There is also a cultural difference as well in that Germans are more likely to go out of their way to comply with published rules, largely to eliminate the slightest possibility that anyone can say that they didn't follow the rules.  At least one writer on German social history has called this "autosuggestion" and the Nazis exploited it by, e.g., setting up major charity drives like the Winterhilfswerk which were replete with small loyalty tests.

We Americans, on the other hand, have a tendency to validate (even if only indirectly) defiance to authority, and we do this openly in situations where authority seems to be on weak moral ground.  We cling, for example, to the idea of the Second Amendment as the "reset button" for government.  So authority tends to come down with overwhelming force.  Just ask anyone in the Third World who has had American soldier's boots in his face.

I've always thought that the US's obsession with speeding is getting in the way of clearing the roads of people who simply drive like jackasses.  Yes, speeding is easy to prosecute for revenue purposes, but I'd rather have the right lane doing two under the limit and the left lane doing 50 over, as opposed to people ducking, weaving, drifting, colliding with the median out of inattention, having their left turn signal on for 39 miles and then doing a sudden right turn, you name it.  That is the sort of thing that should be enforced with heavy fines and a loss of a license.

I agree that the focus should be on antisocial behaviors of the kind you describe, but for a variety of economic and institutional reasons I think this is unlikely to happen, or at any rate to happen on a sufficiently large scale that it would socialize drivers to pay less attention to their speed and more attention to not causing unreasonable inconvenience to other road users.

[Chris]

the Cologne-Bonn Autostrasse (which opened in 1932, before Hitler came to power) was also single-carriageway, but with two lanes in each direction

Interesting. I thought this road had two carriageways. So it's similar to the late 1920's Parkways constructed in Westchester County, New York.

[realjd]

creating problems for drivers who try to maintain a minimum two-second following distance.

this is certainly something American drivers have trouble with. 

This is something I've gotten bad at since moving to Florida. The problem here is that slow cars in the left lane think you don't want to pass unless you get close. You can sit for miles behind someone in the left lane following at a safe distance, but it's not until you get on their tail that they move over. They think that if you aren't tailgating, you're happily following at whatever speed they're going. I didn't make a conscious decision to follow more closely mind you, driving in an environment like this quickly conditioned me to do it automatically if there's a slow car blocking the fast lane. I didn't even realize it until my wife pointed it out one day. She's noticed the same thing with her driving since moving here also. Now that I realize what's going on, I know to get close, give the guy a few seconds to notice me and move out of the way (and they usually do), and then back off if he doesn't move over so I'm not creating too dangerous of a situation. I guess tailgating is the Florida version of flashing headlights (which some folks try to do but leads to really bad road rage here) or turning on your left turn signal.

[J N Winkler]

The Cologne-Bonn Autostrasse probably has two carriageways now--it was later incorporated into the Autobahn network (as the A556, if memory serves) and no longer exists in its original configuration.  However, it definitely opened in 1932 with four traffic lanes on a single carriageway.

As a generalization, the turning point between single and dual carriageways for high-type roads fell around 1930 in nearlly all industrialized countries--the US, Britain, Germany, and others.  The major exception was Italy, where the single-carriageway cross-section held sway through the 1930's.  In Britain construction of dual carriageways began earlier, with the A127 Southend Road in the early 1920's, but that cross-section was regarded as experimental until the early 1930's and was not adopted as a typical cross-section until 1934 when the Ministry of Transport required it to be considered for all roads expected to carry more than 400 vehicles in the peak hour.

The Cologne-Bonn road opened in 1932 but construction started in 1928, when the preferred cross-section was still a single carriageway.  Its cross-section is very similar to that used for the London arterials of the same period, which had two up and two down lanes on a single carriageway.  Cross-sections like this were also proposed for the London-Liverpool motorway (which got the thumbs-down in 1924) and for the initial version of the HAFRABA road.  But by 1931 HAFRABA was pushing a dual-carriageway cross-section very similar to that eventually adopted for the Reichsautobahnen.

[shoptb1]

The Cologne-Bonn Autostrasse probably has two carriageways now--it was later incorporated into the Autobahn network (as the A556, if memory serves) and no longer exists in its original configuration.  However, it definitely opened in 1932 with four traffic lanes on a single carriageway.

It's actually the Bundesautobahn 555 (A555).