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Author Topic: Virginia plans to toll I-81  (Read 14618 times)

Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #300 on: March 29, 2019, 11:25:53 PM »

Does Northam have any political capital to get anything done? He's faded out of the national news, but I'd think that anything that's going to happen in Virginia in terms of revenue would have to originate in the legislature, given the headlines of a few weeks ago. The initiative proposed by some of the I-81 corridor legislators seems to be dead.

I would say that he probably does not.
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Gnutella

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #301 on: March 29, 2019, 11:28:13 PM »

Every Interstate concurrency should be at least six lanes.
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #302 on: March 30, 2019, 12:06:51 AM »

Every Interstate concurrency should be at least six lanes.

The I-81/I-64 overlap carries about the same volumes as I-81 on either side of the overlap.

The I-81/I-77 overlap was built with 6 lanes when completed in the late 1980s.
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #303 on: March 30, 2019, 12:18:42 AM »

Every Interstate concurrency should be at least six lanes.
Depends. If one interstate has an AADT of 20,000, and the overlapping interstate has 10,000 AADT, there's no real good reason to six-lane it. 30,000 AADT on a four-lane interstate works. Now, if the numbers are higher than 35,000 or 40,000 AADT, then I do agree.

Also consider that, for instance, traffic from I-64 west overlaps with I-81 south, but when I-64 west splits off, that traffic stays with I-81 south. That's a common maneuver, traffic from Hampton Roads, Richmond, Charlottesville and everything in between heading southwest would stay on I-81, not continue to I-64 west. Of course, there's some traffic that would stay with I-64 west and leave I-81, though it's significantly less. It depends on traffic flow, and traffic counts mostly.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 12:22:04 AM by sprjus4 »
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #304 on: March 30, 2019, 12:29:39 AM »

Every Interstate concurrency should be at least six lanes.
Depends. If one interstate has an AADT of 20,000, and the overlapping interstate has 10,000 AADT, there's no real good reason to six-lane it. 30,000 AADT on a four-lane interstate works. Now, if the numbers are higher than 35,000 or 40,000 AADT, then I do agree.

I've argued that all of I-81 needs at least 6 lanes between I-40 and I-78.

I wonder if there are any Interstate overlaps that don't need 6 lanes today.  I-77/I-64 does, granted it would be very expensive to construct.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #305 on: March 30, 2019, 12:35:37 AM »


I wonder if there are any Interstate overlaps that don't need 6 lanes today.  I-77/I-64 does, granted it would be very expensive to construct.
I would wonder about the Indiana Toll Road I-80/90 overlap. Donít know the Traffic Counts, tho. 6 lanes would be nice due to the short triples and long doubles truck traffic allowed on the Toll Road
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #306 on: March 30, 2019, 01:54:41 AM »

I've argued that all of I-81 needs at least 6 lanes between I-40 and I-78.
I agree.

I wonder if there are any Interstate overlaps that don't need 6 lanes today.
I-20 / I-59 between Meridian, MS and Tuscaloosa, AL only has about 20,000 AADT. About 95 miles. It handles fine with only 4 lanes and 70 MPH. The other 60 miles of the overlap between Tuscaloosa to Birmingham on the other hand see 40,000 - 50,000 AADT counts.

I-77/I-64 does, granted it would be very expensive to construct.
Not all of it needs it, at least immediately. In the long term, maybe.

Between Cabin Creek, WV and Beckley, WV, traffic counts are between 25,000 - 30,000 AADT. For the time being, that 50 mile stretch operates fine with only 4 lanes. The other areas of the I-77 / I-64 overlap indeed could use a widening, with 40,000 - 50,000 AADT.
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #307 on: March 30, 2019, 07:36:20 AM »

I-77/I-64 does, granted it would be very expensive to construct.
Not all of it needs it, at least immediately. In the long term, maybe.
Between Cabin Creek, WV and Beckley, WV, traffic counts are between 25,000 - 30,000 AADT. For the time being, that 50 mile stretch operates fine with only 4 lanes. The other areas of the I-77 / I-64 overlap indeed could use a widening, with 40,000 - 50,000 AADT.

That gets back into my "20 weekends per year and holiday weekends" rule.  All of it needs 6 lanes then.
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ixnay

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #308 on: March 30, 2019, 08:29:28 AM »


I wonder if there are any Interstate overlaps that don't need 6 lanes today.  I-77/I-64 does, granted it would be very expensive to construct.
I would wonder about the Indiana Toll Road I-80/90 overlap. Donít know the Traffic Counts, tho. 6 lanes would be nice due to the short triples and long doubles truck traffic allowed on the Toll Road

How about the the OH Turnpike I-80/90 overlap between the IN line and exit 59 (U.S. 20) near Toledo where it widens to 6 lanes?

ixnay
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Strider

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #309 on: March 30, 2019, 04:36:05 PM »

Every Interstate concurrency should be at least six lanes.
Depends. If one interstate has an AADT of 20,000, and the overlapping interstate has 10,000 AADT, there's no real good reason to six-lane it. 30,000 AADT on a four-lane interstate works. Now, if the numbers are higher than 35,000 or 40,000 AADT, then I do agree.

I've argued that all of I-81 needs at least 6 lanes between I-40 and I-78.

I wonder if there are any Interstate overlaps that don't need 6 lanes today.  I-77/I-64 does, granted it would be very expensive to construct.


I'd say I-81 needs to be 6 laned from I-40 to I-84/I-380.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #310 on: March 31, 2019, 06:20:01 AM »

Every Interstate concurrency should be at least six lanes.
Depends. If one interstate has an AADT of 20,000, and the overlapping interstate has 10,000 AADT, there's no real good reason to six-lane it. 30,000 AADT on a four-lane interstate works. Now, if the numbers are higher than 35,000 or 40,000 AADT, then I do agree.

I've argued that all of I-81 needs at least 6 lanes between I-40 and I-78.

I wonder if there are any Interstate overlaps that don't need 6 lanes today.  I-77/I-64 does, granted it would be very expensive to construct.


I'd say I-81 needs to be 6 laned from I-40 to I-84/I-380.

Getting PA to add another lane to I-81 would be like trying to convert a TV from black and white to color while it is on and never having to turn it off.  Just the rehab of 81 between Wilkes-Barre to the 84/380 interchange is costing a ridiculous amount and that's without adding a lane.
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #311 on: April 03, 2019, 04:57:34 PM »

Quote
Area drivers will pay an estimated 7 cents more per gallon for gasoline to fund improvements to Interstate 81.

Legislators accepted the new regional tax as part of a budget amendment offered by Gov. Ralph Northam.

The improvement laundry list, crafted through a series of public hearings up and down the I-81 corridor in the past year, originally were to be funded by tolls along the interstate. Legislation to that effect was unveiled by Northam, Del. Steve Landes, R-Weyers Cave and Sen. Mark Obenshain, R-Harrisonburg, shortly before the start of this year's General Assembly session.

But the tolling plan in that bill was roadkill after trucking companies complained, leaving the a bill full of intent and devoid of funding.

Then came Northam's amendment to the bill, restoring funding but from different sources. That's what cleared the General Assembly on Wednesday with trucking industry support.

Motorists along the I-81 corridor will pay a special 2.1% fuel tax, which is estimated to raise gas prices by 7 cents per gallon. Truck registration and the statewide diesel fuel tax also will increase.

The amendments provide $151 million in dedicated funding for the I-81 Corridor Improvement Plan, according to a release from the governor. The amendments mean the $2 billion, multi-year program approved by the Commonwealth Transportation Board in December 2018 will be implemented, while also generating revenue for interstates across the Commonwealth, the release said.

The improvements include truck lanes, longer ramps, rest areas and other traffic flow adjustments that are far less expensive than widening the entire highway.

ďWe canít wait another year to find a solution ó I am pleased to offer amendments that will establish dedicated funding sources to support improvements that will lead to a major reduction in crashes and travel delays," said Northam in the release last week.

Opponents said the legislature was rushing through a major tax hike without sufficient public input.

The General Assembly accepted the governor's amendments to Senate Bill 1716 and House Bill 2718.

Originally, the bill was stripped of the funding mechanisms in its substitute bill in late January. The only item left was the provisions to allow funding sources for the interstate to be studied for an additional year.

The amendments also establish funding for other Virginia interstates: Interstate 95, Interstate 64 and the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority.

I-95 will be allocated $40 million
I-64 will be allocated $28 million
Northern Virginia Transportation Authority will be allocated $20 million
$43 million is reserved for investment in other interstates as prioritized by the Commonwealth Transportation Board
https://www.newsleader.com/story/news/2019/04/03/no-tolls-interstate-81-funding-come-fuel-tax-increase/3351902002/

Updated to include a more detailed article.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 05:00:09 PM by sprjus4 »
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #312 on: April 03, 2019, 10:08:21 PM »

Quote
Quote
Motorists along the I-81 corridor will pay a special 2.1% fuel tax, which is estimated to raise gas prices by 7 cents per gallon. Truck registration and the statewide diesel fuel tax also will increase.

'Along the I-81 corridor' meaning in all the counties that it passes thru? 

I'll bet they will be thrilled to hear that.
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #313 on: April 03, 2019, 10:48:10 PM »

Quote
Quote
Motorists along the I-81 corridor will pay a special 2.1% fuel tax, which is estimated to raise gas prices by 7 cents per gallon. Truck registration and the statewide diesel fuel tax also will increase.

'Along the I-81 corridor' meaning in all the counties that it passes thru? 

I'll bet they will be thrilled to hear that.
That's correct.

This appears to be a more favorable option for most people as opposed to tolling however. It will be felt once the hike happens, though over time, it'll sink in and those people will adjust. In the long run, it'll positively benefit all of those counties as they will get the $2 billion I-81 improvements, and no tolls will be needed.

We've had tax increases here with the HRTAC and the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority. They've since positively benefited the areas with the completion of many needed projects using the fuel taxes, and minimal tolling. Hampton Roads only has 5 tolls - the Midtown Tunnel, Downtown Tunnel, US-17, VA-168, and Jordan Bridge. The vast majority of the freeway/interstate system here is being improved upon / has been / planned to be without tolling. The almost $4 billion HRBT expansion is a good example. The Third Crossing may be constructed without tolling as well in the next 10-20 years. Northern Virginia only has 1 toll road - VA-267.  I-66 outside the beltway is receiving a major $2+ billion overhaul currently, without tolling.

I think it will be a bit of adjusting for the areas being impacted, but will overall have a positive outcome.
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #314 on: April 03, 2019, 11:36:00 PM »

Quote
Quote
Motorists along the I-81 corridor will pay a special 2.1% fuel tax, which is estimated to raise gas prices by 7 cents per gallon. Truck registration and the statewide diesel fuel tax also will increase.
'Along the I-81 corridor' meaning in all the counties that it passes thru? 
I'll bet they will be thrilled to hear that.
That's correct.
This appears to be a more favorable option for most people as opposed to tolling however. It will be felt once the hike happens, though over time, it'll sink in and those people will adjust. In the long run, it'll positively benefit all of those counties as they will get the $2 billion I-81 improvements, and no tolls will be needed.

IIRC the local volumes reported in the 2004 studies were in the 20-25% range.  There are plenty of towns and cities along the route and it has been over 40 years since the last segment was completed, so while traffic growth has been slow it has had a long time to grow.  So local users (as in the 10 to 50 mile trip range) will definitely benefit from capacity improvements.

We've had tax increases here with the HRTAC and the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority. They've since positively benefited the areas with the completion of many needed projects using the fuel taxes, and minimal tolling. Hampton Roads only has 5 tolls - the Midtown Tunnel, Downtown Tunnel, US-17, VA-168, and Jordan Bridge. The vast majority of the freeway/interstate system here is being improved upon / has been / planned to be without tolling. The almost $4 billion HRBT expansion is a good example. The Third Crossing may be constructed without tolling as well in the next 10-20 years. Northern Virginia only has 1 toll road - VA-267.  I-66 outside the beltway is receiving a major $2+ billion overhaul currently, without tolling.

Northern Virginia does have tolled express lanes on 4 Interstate routes and I-66 outside the beltway will have tolled express lanes, but as noted VA-267 is the only one with tolled general purpose lanes.
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #315 on: April 04, 2019, 12:31:44 AM »

IIRC the local volumes reported in the 2004 studies were in the 20-25% range.  There are plenty of towns and cities along the route and it has been over 40 years since the last segment was completed, so while traffic growth has been slow it has had a long time to grow.  So local users (as in the 10 to 50 mile trip range) will definitely benefit from capacity improvements.
Agreed. I had misinterpreted your initial response as being sarcastic (as in those towns now will have higher taxes), that's the position my response came from.

Northern Virginia does have tolled express lanes on 4 Interstate routes and I-66 outside the beltway will have tolled express lanes, but as noted VA-267 is the only one with tolled general purpose lanes.
Express lanes or not, there's still a free freeway option. The I-66 outside the beltway widening will benefit everybody, as interchanges will be fully reconstructed, reconfigured, expanded, etc. to handle more traffic volumes, the gap between I-66 and the VA-28 freeway will finally be closed, etc.

The Springfield Interchange expansion, Woodrow Wilson Bridge replacement, etc. benefited everybody, and those were completed before the Express Lanes.

Now, if they could find funding to add another GP lane to I-95 and do the same thing happening to I-66 but on I-95 down to Fredericksburg, or at least Stafford. The tax increase providing $40 million annually to I-95 could help accelerate that. $400 million in 10 years could help speed up a massive I-95 expansion to 8-lanes, as that's $400 million less needed from traditional sources over a 10 year period. For 25 miles (Occoquan River to I-95 C/D lane project in Fredericksburg), if it's $50 million per mile (a base estimate for adding one 12 foot lane and 12 foot shoulder in each direction in the median), it'd be about $1.25 billion. If subsidized by $400 million in a 10 year period, that's now down to $850 million. It's certainly going to be needed in the next 10-15 years, it's tolerable to some extent now, but it's just gonna get worse.

Obviously, an actual project would likely feature interchange expansions, etc. and be more costly, but for a basic 8-lane widening / relief project similar to what's happening with I-64 on the Peninsula (simply adding a lane for congestion relief, no actual interchange improvements), it could be close.
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ARMOURERERIC

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #316 on: April 04, 2019, 09:15:09 AM »

When I drive from Morganton to Pittsburgh, I try to set my needed fill ups for the I81 stations between the 77's.  Gas is sooooo much cheaper on that short stretch that even with a 7 cent increase, it's still 40 cheaper than anywhere in WV or PA.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #317 on: April 04, 2019, 12:46:32 PM »

Whyteville is the bomb!!!  Always stop there when going to see the in-laws in Motown or my stepson in Indy.
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #318 on: April 04, 2019, 02:09:44 PM »

For 25 miles (Occoquan River to I-95 C/D lane project in Fredericksburg), if it's $50 million per mile (a base estimate for adding one 12 foot lane and 12 foot shoulder in each direction in the median), it'd be about $1.25 billion. [Ö]
Obviously, an actual project would likely feature interchange expansions, etc. and be more costly, but for a basic 8-lane widening / relief project similar to what's happening with I-64 on the Peninsula (simply adding a lane for congestion relief, no actual interchange improvements), it could be close.

I would think that the average bid would be a lot less than $50 million per mile, especially since the 12-foot left shoulder would not be a "stealth future traffic lane" like seen in some instances of VDOT widening from 2 lanes to 3 lanes.  Maybe as low as $25 million.

Plus the 1980-1987 6-lane widening of 58 miles between Ashland and Triangle featured 62% of the length where it was widened on the outside and they widened it enough to leave a future 12-foot lane and 3-foot shoulder on the inside.  So they could add 9 feet to the left shoulder and widen the grassed roadside and be finished.  There is 17 miles between US-17 and VA-619; based on quick review of GMSV it doesn't look like any of that has the current 15-foot shoulder, but those benefits are available on 36 miles of the Ashland-Triangle segment.
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Rothman

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #319 on: April 04, 2019, 03:05:23 PM »

Whyteville is the bomb!!!  Always stop there when going to see the in-laws in Motown or my stepson in Indy.
Um.  Why?
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #320 on: April 05, 2019, 06:48:51 AM »

^ Cheap gas and Sheetz MTO?
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ARMOURERERIC

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #321 on: April 05, 2019, 08:15:19 AM »

So, it this legislation a done deal and passed.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #322 on: April 05, 2019, 01:00:00 PM »

^ Cheap gas and Sheetz MTO?

The Sheetz at Wytheville is a relatively new store. It's also located one exit west of the I-77 north/I-81 south (Bluefield/Bristol) split, at the US 21/US 52 exit off I-81, so it would be out of the way for anyone traveling the I-77 corridor.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #323 on: April 07, 2019, 09:41:54 PM »

Quote
The Sheetz at Wytheville is a relatively new store. It's also located one exit west of the I-77 north/I-81 south (Bluefield/Bristol) split, at the US 21/US 52 exit off I-81, so it would be out of the way for anyone traveling the I-77 corridor.

You'd be surprised how many people actually go out of their way for cheap gas and food, even (especially?) if they don't realize it (as is the case in numerous areas across the country).
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #324 on: April 07, 2019, 10:10:34 PM »

Quote
The Sheetz at Wytheville is a relatively new store. It's also located one exit west of the I-77 north/I-81 south (Bluefield/Bristol) split, at the US 21/US 52 exit off I-81, so it would be out of the way for anyone traveling the I-77 corridor.

You'd be surprised how many people actually go out of their way for cheap gas and food, even (especially?) if they don't realize it (as is the case in numerous areas across the country).
I do it quite frequently. As long as it's only 1 mile or 2 off, and easily accessible back to the main route, I have no issues. But if it was like 6 miles west of the I-77 split, that'd be a bit different.
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