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Author Topic: High Five Interchange Signing  (Read 8421 times)

SignBridge

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High Five Interchange Signing
« on: February 21, 2010, 08:05:32 PM »

Although I'm not from Texas, I got interested in the High Five Interchange after seeing it on the show "Superhighways" on the History Channel. Having now taken a good look at it, especially the directional signing, using Google Earth, I have a few questions you guys might be able to help me with.

If you're going east or west on I-635, the signs for US 75 show south to Dallas or north to McKinney. So far so good. But if you're going north or south on 75, the signs for I-635 only direct you east or west with no destinations shown. This is quite a surprise for a major interchange like this. Does anyone know why Texas DOT would not have posted destinations for I-635? I always thought destinations were required for Interstates in the MUTCD. I know Texas has its own sign manual, but aren't the standards similar?

Probably there is some reasoning why it was done this way, known to people of the Dallas area? I've never been to Texas, so I don't know the lay of the land or the local frame of reference.
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Scott5114

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Re: High Five Interchange Signing
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2010, 11:20:44 PM »

Several states omit control cities for three-digit interstates because they generally stay in the same metro area and serve traffic traveling to different points within that same area. Kansas is another state that does this; both I-635 and I-435 in Kansas (as well as I think I-235 in Wichita) are simply signed north or south. Missouri tries to sign destinations on I-435, but it comes out looking remarkably silly because the only thing they can really use is "Kansas" (can't put Kansas City, KS because it could mislead people going to Kansas City, MO).

In Oklahoma, most 3dis are given control cities matching the highways they connect to. For example, on WB I-44, the exit to I-244 in Tulsa is for Sand Springs and Enid. I-240 (which travels entirely within Oklahoma City limits) variously carries control cities of Dallas, Fort Smith, and Lawton. Whether this is preferable or not depends on your opinion, I guess.
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Alex

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Re: High Five Interchange Signing
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2010, 02:13:19 AM »

The TXDOT standard omits control cities on all Interstate beltways and bypasses. IOW, you will find no control cities for Interstates 410, 610, and 820 either.

J N Winkler

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Re: High Five Interchange Signing
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2010, 05:41:12 AM »

If you're going east or west on I-635, the signs for US 75 show south to Dallas or north to McKinney. So far so good. But if you're going north or south on 75, the signs for I-635 only direct you east or west with no destinations shown. This is quite a surprise for a major interchange like this. Does anyone know why Texas DOT would not have posted destinations for I-635? I always thought destinations were required for Interstates in the MUTCD. I know Texas has its own sign manual, but aren't the standards similar?

A few observations:

*  If the northbound control city on US 75 is McKinney, then the signs are not as shown in the original construction plans for the High Five (TxDOT CCSJ 2374-01-069).  In those plans Sherman is used as the northbound control city.  (If that is not the case for the High Five as actually signed, it may be as a result of a construction change order.  Do the signs use Clearview?)

*  I am not sure the FHWA MUTCD requires the use of control cities for beltways either.
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Alex

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Re: High Five Interchange Signing
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2010, 11:45:21 AM »

If you're going east or west on I-635, the signs for US 75 show south to Dallas or north to McKinney. So far so good. But if you're going north or south on 75, the signs for I-635 only direct you east or west with no destinations shown. This is quite a surprise for a major interchange like this. Does anyone know why Texas DOT would not have posted destinations for I-635? I always thought destinations were required for Interstates in the MUTCD. I know Texas has its own sign manual, but aren't the standards similar?

A few observations:

*  If the northbound control city on US 75 is McKinney, then the signs are not as shown in the original construction plans for the High Five (TxDOT CCSJ 2374-01-069).  In those plans Sherman is used as the northbound control city.  (If that is not the case for the High Five as actually signed, it may be as a result of a construction change order.  Do the signs use Clearview?)

*  I am not sure the FHWA MUTCD requires the use of control cities for beltways either.

They changed most of the US 75 signs to reflect McKinney in place of Sherman at the request of the city of McKinney a couple of years ago.

Chris

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Re: High Five Interchange Signing
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2010, 12:32:21 PM »

McKinney was an unimportant suburb in the 1990's with a population of 21,000. This has skyrocketed to 103,000 in 2006, making McKinney the northernmost important suburb along US 75, so it would make sense to have it as a reference point.

Bryant5493

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Re: High Five Interchange Signing
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2010, 05:21:46 PM »

Tune the video to 4:56, for the High Five interchange. This video was produced by ScrewdUPClickV2, a fellow YouTube road video director/producer.




Be well,

Bryant
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 05:23:19 PM by Bryant5493 »
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Check out my YouTube page (http://youtube.com/Bryant5493). I have numerous road videos of Metro Atlanta and other areas in the Southeast.

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huskeroadgeek

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Re: High Five Interchange Signing
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 03:15:42 AM »

Several states omit control cities for three-digit interstates because they generally stay in the same metro area and serve traffic traveling to different points within that same area. Kansas is another state that does this; both I-635 and I-435 in Kansas (as well as I think I-235 in Wichita) are simply signed north or south. Missouri tries to sign destinations on I-435, but it comes out looking remarkably silly because the only thing they can really use is "Kansas" (can't put Kansas City, KS because it could mislead people going to Kansas City, MO).

Actually, I-635 in MO is signed as "Kansas" off of I-29, but I-435 is signed with control cities that correspond with the interstates it connects with. I-435 SB is signed as "Topeka" off of I-29. It is signed as "St. Louis" EB off of I-29. At I-35, I-435 is signed as "St. Joseph" NB and "St. Louis" SB. At I-70 it is "Des Moines" NB and "Wichita" SB, as well as at US 71 except the "Wichita" dierction is WB at that point.
I wish KS would sign their portion of I-435 with control cities too. At I-70 they could sign it "St. Joseph" NB and "Wichita" SB. At I-35 they could sign it "Topeka" NB and "Des Moines" SB(EB at that point). That would require them changing the control cities on I-35 because they use "Des Moines" for I-35 NB there, but I think they should use "Kansas City" there since I-35 has yet to actually enter Kansas City at that point.
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Marc

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Re: High Five Interchange Signing
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2010, 03:42:34 AM »

The TxDOT standard omits control cities on all Interstate beltways and bypasses. IOW, you will find no control cities for Interstates 410, 610, and 820 either.

I have seen Belaire be used on I-610. Not sure if this counts as a control "city" or not, but Intercontinential Airport is used on parts of the Sam Houston Tollway.
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austrini

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Re: High Five Interchange Signing
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2010, 07:47:15 PM »

McKinney fought for a decade to get the control point northbound on US 75 changed and were eventually successful a few years ago (I work in McKinney). If you go south to downtown Dallas, on side streets and US 175 northbound the control point is still Sherman.

635 has a control point northbound at its eastern/southern end of "Mesquite" where I-20 splits off. Thats the only control city I can think of on the route.
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bugo

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Re: High Five Interchange Signing
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2010, 03:52:54 PM »

Here's a video I shot in March headed southbound on US 75.

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Greybear

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Re: High Five Interchange Signing
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2010, 05:37:42 PM »

McKinney fought for a decade to get the control point northbound on US 75 changed and were eventually successful a few years ago (I work in McKinney). If you go south to downtown Dallas, on side streets and US 175 northbound the control point is still Sherman.

635 has a control point northbound at its eastern/southern end of "Mesquite" where I-20 splits off. Thats the only control city I can think of on the route.

On I-635 SB at US 80, the control city is "Fort Worth", a remnant of when I-20 was duplexed with I-635 before the new split was built.
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txstateends

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Re: High Five Interchange Signing
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2011, 05:41:45 AM »

Westbound starting at I-35E, most I-635 BGSs use "DFW Airport" as a control point even though the west terminus is at TX 121 just north of the airport.
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