Control cities for 3dis

TheStranger · February 22, 2010, 02:29:17 AM

Inspired by the Dallas High-Five thread on these forums, where this topic was brought up - https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2438.msg54657#new - I'm curious as to what practices individual DOTs have with regard to assignment of 3di control cities - cities along the route, long-distance bypass destinations, or neither?

California has a hodgepodge, judging from the following examples:

I-280: Southbound, Daly City is the first control city, followed by San Jose. (101 has the San Jose control city at the Alemany Maze, presumably as it is a shorter route.) Northbound, first control city is Downtown San Jose (with US 101 having "San Francisco" at that stack interchange), followed by SF.

I-605: The infamous "Thru Traffic" control city

I-105: The termini of Norwalk and El Segundo served as the original control cities, though in the last few years, LAX has become the westbound control city.

I-405: Southbound, it's Santa Monica, Long Beach, then San Diego (reached by I-5); northbound, Long Beach, Santa Monica, and Sacramento (reached by I-5). Originally Sacramento was "Bakersfield" (from when the Golden State Freeway was part of US 99).

I-805 is one I'm not sure of - southbound, it seems to lack a control city for much of its run, but is signed northbound for Los Angeles (reachable via I-5).

Duke87 · February 22, 2010, 02:51:58 AM

Well, for Connecticut...

291 East: Manchester (endpoint of route)
291 West: Windsor (endpoint of route)
384 East: Providence (waaay beyond end of route, relic of when this was to be part of 84)
384 West: Hartford (beyond end of route along 84)
395 North: Norwich (on route), Plainfield (on route), Worcester (endpoint of route)
395 South: Norwich (on route), New Haven (beyond end of route along 95)
691 East: Meriden (endpoint of route)
691 West: Meriden (on route), Waterbury (beyond end of route along 84)

Of course, Connecticut doesn't have any true "bypass" 3dis (routes that meet their parent twice).

mightyace · February 22, 2010, 06:20:19 AM

Middle TN:
I-440 uses Memphis (WB) and Knoxville (EB) similar to I-40 after passing downtown Nashville.

TN 840 appears to have dual level control cities from signs at I-65 and I-24 junctions.
Long Distance: Memphis (not signed yet, but implied)(WB), Knoxville (EB)
Regional from W-E: Dickson, Franklin, Murfreesboro, Lebanon

xonhulu · February 22, 2010, 11:18:29 AM

On the Portland, OR 3dis:

I-405 uses the destinations up WB US 26 and US 30 as control cities: Beaverton and St Helens.

On I-205, ODOT and WSDOT sign Salem and Seattle as control cities, to encourage through traffic to bypass downtown and I-5.

Brandon · February 22, 2010, 11:30:59 AM

I'll be quite honest, I think the controls for 3dis sometimes are lacking. Here are a few, and you'll see why,

I-190(W):
O'Hare
I-190(E):
Chicago

I-290 (W):
West Suburbs
Rockford
I-290 (E):
Chicago

I-294(N):
Iowa (w/I-80)
Wisconsin
Milwaukee
I-294(S):
O'Hare
Indiana

I-355 (N):
West Suburbs
Northwest Suburbs
Suburbs*
I-355 (S):
Joliet
St Louis
South Suburbs
Southwest Suburbs
Suburbs*

*As signed for the advance signage from I-55.

Of these, only I-190 is well done, IMHO. I-290 could use Aurora and Schaumburg. I-294 isn't bad, but not perfect. I-355 is worst of all, IMHO. Every f-n thing is suburbs of some sort. Use a city, ISTHA and IDOT! I mean, Joliet, Schaumburg, and New Lenox are better than "Suburbs".

Revive 755 · February 22, 2010, 01:26:50 PM

[ubMissouri[/b]
* I-270 WB/NB/EB: Kansas City, Chicago
* I-270 WB/SB: Kansas City, Memphis. Tulsa used to be used at US 40 IRRC, and still pops up at the MO 364 cloverleaf:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.694286,-90.450482&spn=0,359.945068&z=15&layer=c&cbll=38.698237,-90.451297&panoid=26Dtgcl7pEbjsthQmoaGFw&cbp=12,259.5,,0,-14.97
* I-255 EB: Chicago
* I-255 WB: Memphis
* I-170: Clayton for SB, NB may used to have had Clayton at US 40, but I can't remember offhand if it's still used post US 40 rebuild. Otherwise nothing is used. Some newer signs do have an airport symbol though.
* I-435: Des Moines and Wichita at I-70, St. Joesph and St. Louis at the US 169 and MO 152 cloverleafs.
* I-470: St. Louis and Wichita at the US 50/MO 350 cloverleaf, Lee's Summit at I-70 and the Triangle.
* I-670: Topeka and Wichita on I-70 WB, Kansas on US 71 NB, St. Louis at I-35 (but signed as I-70, see http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.094472,-94.588208&spn=0,359.986267&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.094111,-94.590495&panoid=LCWmRetxs71jn9SOl-H7ow&cbp=12,25.94,,0,5
* I-635: Kansas at MO 9 and I-29

Illinois
* I-255 NB: Chicago and "To I-270" with Indianapolis on one pull through:http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.612746,-90.075102&spn=0,359.945068&z=15&layer=c&cbll=38.612924,-90.074782&panoid=s8E_IOsR1KJvfgfzYFe7bA&cbp=12,55.65,,0,-4.21
* I-255 SB: Memphis, with Tulsa on some pull through south of I-64 http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.479395,-90.223546&spn=0,359.945068&z=15&layer=c&cbll=38.479683,-90.223396&panoid=WVccnMCWprr4bikopOqfTw&cbp=12,211.13,,0,3.45 Secondary of "St. Louis Co" on IL 3 NB:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.472205,-90.223246&spn=0,359.945068&z=15&layer=c&cbll=38.469362,-90.225009&panoid=oOVeg8yCOHZnq_a3OqSFOg&cbp=12,342.61,,0,-1.33

* I-270: Indianapolis and Kansas City. Secondaries of Effingham and St. Charles.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.763236,-90.117846&spn=0,359.972534&z=16&layer=c&cbll=38.763394,-90.12419&panoid=yiym6zHOTFtAbWIUb73d8Q&cbp=12,355.53,,0,-11.8
* I-172: Quincy at I-72, Hannibal, Mt. Sterling, and Keokuk at IL 96:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.904206,-91.279392&spn=0,359.780273&z=13&layer=c&cbll=39.879464,-91.327419&panoid=yusy8hJmB8ERZCyKRHN8zg&cbp=12,345.61,,0,4.44
* I-155: Peoria and Lincoln
* I-474: Moline-Rock Island, Pekin, Indianapolis
* I-280: Des Moines, Chicago at IL 92
* I-180: Hennepin, Interstate 80

Nebraska
* I-180: 9th Street/Downtown or just Downtown SB, nothing NB
* I-680: None
* I-480: Downtown for NB/EB, not seeing anything for WB/SB

Bickendan · February 22, 2010, 01:34:04 PM

Quote from: xonhulu on February 22, 2010, 11:18:29 AM
On the Portland, OR 3dis:

I-405 uses the destinations up WB US 26 and US 30 as control cities: Beaverton and St Helens.

On I-205, ODOT and WSDOT sign Salem and Seattle as control cities, to encourage through traffic to bypass downtown and I-5.

Aren't the final control cities for I-405 Salem and Seattle, once past the respective Beaverton and St Helens interchanges?

Michael · February 22, 2010, 02:07:17 PM

I never really paid attention to this, but here's I-690 in Syracuse (from memory):

Baldwinsville (via NY 690)
Thruway (western terminus of I-690)
Fairgrounds
Syracuse
East Syracuse (eastern terminus of I-690/JCT I-481)

It'd be real interesting if someone had the control "cities" for I-790.

burgess87 · February 22, 2010, 02:23:08 PM

Interstates 190 & 290's Buffalo, NY exits off I-90:

IH 190:

Downtown Buffalo
Canada

IH 290:

Niagara Falls
...and "Thru Traffic" (on I-290 WB).

SSOWorld · February 22, 2010, 02:37:20 PM

Wisconsin: I-794 - Port of Milw, I-894 - Chicago (at Zoo Interchange), Madison and Fond Du Lac (at Mitchell Interchange NB), Beloit (at Mitchell Interchange SB)

Ian · February 22, 2010, 03:20:17 PM

I-476 south of I-276 (northbound): Plymouth Meeting
I-476 south of I-276 (southbound): Chester (via by I-95 south)
I-476 between I-276 and I-78 (northbound): Allentown
I-476 between I-276 and I-78 (southbound): Philadelphia (via I-95 south)
I-476 north of I-78 (northbound): Scranton
I-476 north of I-78 (southbound): Allentown

I-676 (westbound): Valley Forge (via I-76 west)
I-676 (eastbound): Ben Franklin Bridge

I-176 (northbound): Reading (via US 422 west)
I-176 (southbound): Morgantown

I-283 (northbound): Harrisburg (via I-83 both directions) & Hershey (via US 322 east)
I-283 (southbound): Airport (via PA 283) & Lancaster (via I-76 east)

74/171FAN · February 22, 2010, 03:22:25 PM

For I-295 in Virginia(here being known as NB/WB and SB/EB due to the east-west portion between both I-64 interchanges and no signed direction between the western I-64 and the northern I-95 interchanges)
NB/WB-Washington(via I-95 NB), Charlottesville(via I-64 WB)
SB/EB-Washington(via I-95 NB), Norfolk(via I-64 EB), Rocky Mount, NC(via I-95 SB), Hopewell

vdeane · February 22, 2010, 04:58:00 PM

The only control city on I-790 is Downtown Utica.

I-590 has Downtown Rochester (but only from I-390 north). I-390 has Corning, Rochester, Airport, Greece, and numerous towns between I-90 and I-86. I-490 has Downtown, Buffalo, Thruway, LeRoy, Rochester, and Victor.

Given the way signs on I-590 and NY 590 work, I imagine it has a hidden Thru Traffic control city.

TheStranger · February 22, 2010, 05:25:46 PM

Some more California examples:

I-780 eastbound: Benicia, Martinez
I-780 westbound: Benicia, Vallejo

I-680 northbound: Sacramento (via I-80) for entirety of route...Walnut Creek, Concord (via Route 242), Martinez, Benicia, Fairfield
I-680 southbound: San Jose for entirety of route...Benicia, Martinez, Walnut Creek, Dublin, Fremont

I-880 northbound: Oakland...San Francisco/Berkeley (via I-80)
I-880 southbound: San Jose for entirety of route...Oakland, Hayward, Santa Cruz (via Route 17 - signed only at onramps, not on 880 itself)

I-980 northbound: Walnut Creek via Route 24 eastbound
I-980 southbound: Downtown Oakland/TO I-880

I-380 eastbound: San Francisco International Airport/US 101
I-380 westbound: San Bruno/TO I-280, then just "WEST"

I-110 southbound: Downtown [Los Angeles], San Pedro, Gaffey Street (in San Pedro)
I-110 northbound: Los Angeles, Pasadena/Hollywood (note that while this latter sign at I-10 is given the "State Route 110" designation, the Harbor Freeway north of I-10 is signed southbound almost in its entirety as part of the interstate)

I-710 southbound: Long Beach, Terminal Island (via Route 47)/Piers S/T
I-710 northbound: Pasadena (in anticipation of the yet-to-be-filled South Pasadena gap/proposed tunnel link), Valley Boulevard

I-205 eastbound: Tracy, Stockton (via I-5 north)
I-205 westbound: TO I-580/San Francisco (via I-580 and I-80)

I-215 southbound: San Bernardino/Riverside, San Diego (via I-15)/Indio (via Route 60 east)
I-215 northbound: Riverside/San Bernardino, Los Angeles (via Route 60 west), Barstow (via I-15)

I-580 eastbound: Richmond Bridge/Oakland, San Francisco (via I-80 west), Downtown Oakland/Hayward/Stockton (via I-205 east and I-5 north), Fresno (via I-5, Route 152, and Route 99)/Los Angeles (via I-5)
I-580 westbound: Tracy (via County Road J2)/San Francisco (via I-80 west), Oakland, Downtown Oakland, Sacramento (via I-80 east), Berkeley, Point Richmond/San Rafael

I-210 eastbound to San Dimas: Pasadena, San Bernardino (via State Route 210)
I-210 westbound from San Dimas: Pasadena, San Fernando

xonhulu · February 22, 2010, 05:57:51 PM

Quote from: Bickendan on February 22, 2010, 01:34:04 PM
Aren't the final control cities for I-405 Salem and Seattle, once past the respective Beaverton and St Helens interchanges?

Yup, but I can't remember if these are listed as control cities for 405, just as the options for the upcoming interchanges with I-5. But there might be pull-through signage for 405 listing these cities just before these interchanges -- I can't remember.

3467 · February 22, 2010, 08:47:48 PM

On I-80 at the 180 jct there is a separate sign -"to Peoria"

IDOT claims suburbs they dont name complain about not being named so to make it easy its just suburbs all the way down
....at least to Iowa anyway

roadfro · February 22, 2010, 10:43:04 PM

Nevada only has three 3di's. There's not a lot of pullthrough signs for any of these...

I-580 (unsigned along US 395)
* The control cities for this route when signed will be Reno and Carson City, exactly the same as US 395.

I-515 (cosigned with US 93/US 95)
* southbound: Henderson (used mainly on sidestreets in Las Vegas area), Boulder City (used mainly on side streets in Henderson), Phoenix (used on I-15 and mainline)
* northbound: Las Vegas (used mainly on sidestreets in Henderson), Downtown (used on sidestreets in Las Vegas area)

I-215 / Clark County 215
* Henderson is the only control city used on I-215.
* At I-15 it's signed as "Henderson / 215 West".

The '215 West' legend came about because there wasn't a clear destination that NDOT could put on the sign. 'Las Vegas' couldn't be used, because one is already in the greater Las Vegas area at that interchange. 'Spring Valley' (the next major unincorporated township) was deemed too ambiguous as most people are unaware of the townships in the valley. 'Summerlin' is a logical destination, but NDOT doesn't use commercial names on freeway signs. 'West Las Vegas' would also be logical, but that term more commonly refers to a Las Vegas neighborhood in a section of the city near downtown.

agentsteel53 · February 22, 2010, 10:44:27 PM

I-495 in Boston: northbound control city is "NH-Maine"

shoptb1 · February 22, 2010, 11:50:11 PM

Columbus, OH:
I-270: Cleveland, Wheeling, Cincinnati, Dayton (sometimes Indianapolis on older signs), Grove City, Dublin
I-670: Airport, Columbus, Dayton

Dayton, OH:
I-675: Cincinnati, WPAFB, Columbus

St Clairsville, OH/Wheeling, WV:
I-470: Bellaire OH, Washington PA, Cambridge OH, Columbus OH

Toledo, OH:
I-280: Toledo, Detroit, Cleveland
I-475: Sylvania, Ann Arbor, Maumee, Toledo, Dayton

Cincinnati, OH:
I-275: Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, Columbus, Dayton, Indianapolis, Airport
I-471: Newport, Cincinnati

UptownRoadGeek · February 23, 2010, 12:17:57 AM

Louisiana

I-110
NB: Downtown, Metro Airport, Natchez
SB: Baton Rouge

I-210
Loop

I-310
NB: Donaldsonville, New Orleans
SB: Boutte, Houma

I-510
NB: none
SB: Chalmette

I-610
EB: Slidell
WB: Baton Rouge

I-220
By-Pass

myosh_tino · February 23, 2010, 02:07:58 AM

San Francisco Bay Area/Northern California:

I-280...
Northbound - Downtown San Jose, San Francisco
Southbound - Daly City, Pacifica/San Jose, San Jose, Downtown San Jose

I-380...
Eastbound - S.F. Intl Airport
Westbound - To I-280/San Bruno

I-580...
Eastbound - Richmond Br/Oakland, Downtown Oakland/Hayward/Stockton, Hayward/Stockton, Stockton, Fresno/Stockton, Fresno/Los Angeles/TO I-5
Westbound - Tracy/San Francisco, Oakland, Oakland/San Francisco, Downtown Oakland/San Francisco, Bay Bridge/San Francisco, Berkeley/Sacramento, Pt Richmond/San Rafael,

I-680...
Northbound - Sacramento, Sacramento/Walnut Creek, Sacramento/Concord, Sacramento/Martinez, Sacramento/Benicia, Sacramento/Fairfield
Southbound - San Jose/Benicia, San Jose/Martinez, San Jose/Walnut Creek, San Jose/Dublin, San Jose

I-780...
Westbound - Benicia/Vallejo
Eastbound - Benicia/Martinez

I-880...
Northbound - Oakland, San Francisco/Berkeley
Southbound - San Jose/Alameda, San Jose/Hayward, San Jose, Santa Cruz

I-980...
Eastbound - TO CA-24/Walnut Creek
Westbound - TO I-880/Downtown Oakland

I-238...
Northbound - TO I-880
Southbound - Stockton/Fresno/TO I-580, Castro Valley/Stockton/TO I-580

I-205...
Eastbound - Tracy/Stockton
Westbound - San Francisco/TO I-580

I-505...
Northbound - Winters/Redding
Southbound - Winters/San Francisco

NOTE: Control cities separated by a slash "/" appear on the same sign panel.

EDIT: Doh! Looks like TheStranger beat me to it (except I included I-505).

TheStranger · February 23, 2010, 02:26:07 AM

Quote from: myosh_tino on February 23, 2010, 02:07:58 AM
San Francisco Bay Area/Northern California:

I-280...
Northbound - Downtown San Jose, San Francisco
Southbound - Daly City, Pacifica/San Jose, San Jose, Downtown San Jose

Since I-280 doesn't pass through Pacifica, I assume that's through the concurrency with Route 35/Skyline Boulevard?

Also interesting to note the 580 use of "Fresno" even though the only freeway-to-freeway connection from Fresno to the Bay Area uses 205-5-120 instead...

---

For that matter, if we really want to add to this:

Former I-880 in Sacramento had "Reno" and "San Francisco" as the controls

Current unsigned I-305 (Business 80/US 50 from I-80 east to Route 99) uses "Sacramento" and "South Lake Tahoe" going eastbound, and "San Francisco" going westbound

---

Now that I think we have every NorCal one covered, finally doing the sign-by-sign analysis (Google Street View a huge help here) for I-805...

I-805 northbound: San Diego (note that the first sign to this effect is within city limits in San Ysidro at Route 905!), National City, NORTH (at the 43rd Street exit - Route 252 would have linked downtown San Diego with I-805, via I-5), Los Angeles (starting at Route 94)

I-805 southbound: SOUTH

Michael · February 23, 2010, 10:04:12 AM

Quote from: TheStranger on February 23, 2010, 02:26:07 AM
I-805 southbound: SOUTH

FAIL.

agentsteel53 · February 23, 2010, 10:07:42 AM

Quote from: Michael on February 23, 2010, 10:04:12 AM
Quote from: TheStranger on February 23, 2010, 02:26:07 AM
I-805 southbound: SOUTH

FAIL.

yes, southern California seems very averse to noting the existence of civilization south of the border. "Tijuana, BC" does not exist as a control city. There are a couple of distance signs (to Tijuana and Ensenada on 5, to San Felipe on 99, and likely others elsewhere) but Mexico is never indicated as a primary destination.

it would be nice if they acknowledged Tijuana and its state on I-5 because then the northernmost control city going northbound, and the southernmost control city going southbound would both have "BC" suffix.

J N Winkler · February 23, 2010, 10:46:13 AM

But is "BC" necessary? For years TxDOT had "Juarez" (no state, country, or accent for Ã¡) on US 54 (hidden I-110) in El Paso. Now, in the age of Clearview, it is "JuÃ¡rez, México." (My personal preference is for "Cd JuÃ¡rez" without state or country.)

News:

Control cities for 3dis