Madison Area

[SEWIGuy]

I mean, press releases from the time specifically said that people weren't going to be aware of just how bad traffic would get with ongoing construction in a known boondoggle. Multiple sessions of construction don't eliminate that problem, they just make a bottleneck happen twice when it could have happened in one go.

I'm not sure what you mean by boondoggle. Anyway, no one ever said that this solution would eliminate all bottlenecks - nor do I think that should always be the goal however.  The solution provided much improvement between the Beltline and County PD. It also replaced aging infrastructure.

Believe me I have been through there during rush hour. It's not ideal but it's largely fine. The idea that unless something is completely 100% perfect and free-flowing that they should wait until they have the money to make it so, is just not how the world works. Compromises to get 95% of something done is routine.

It's a tough case to make when outside of peak hours, the single point functions just fine.  At this point, it'll probably cost $300 million to construct 'Phase 3' just to shave a couple minutes off a rush hour commute.  Which in some cases might be worth it if it also creates a safer piece of infrastructure for everyone (not just those in vehicles.) 
Pretty safe bet the status quo at Verona Road is what we are going to have for at least another decade.  Probably even two.

Exactly.

[peterj920]

I mean, press releases from the time specifically said that people weren't going to be aware of just how bad traffic would get with ongoing construction in a known boondoggle. Multiple sessions of construction don't eliminate that problem, they just make a bottleneck happen twice when it could have happened in one go.

I'm not sure what you mean by boondoggle. Anyway, no one ever said that this solution would eliminate all bottlenecks - nor do I think that should always be the goal however.  The solution provided much improvement between the Beltline and County PD. It also replaced aging infrastructure.

Believe me I have been through there during rush hour. It's not ideal but it's largely fine. The idea that unless something is completely 100% perfect and free-flowing that they should wait until they have the money to make it so, is just not how the world works. Compromises to get 95% of something done is routine.

It's a tough case to make when outside of peak hours, the single point functions just fine.  At this point, it'll probably cost $300 million to construct 'Phase 3' just to shave a couple minutes off a rush hour commute.  Which in some cases might be worth it if it also creates a safer piece of infrastructure for everyone (not just those in vehicles.) 
Pretty safe bet the status quo at Verona Road is what we are going to have for at least another decade.  Probably even two.

Exactly.

Drive through there between 7-9 am and 3-6 pm now and traffic is backing up onto the Beltline Mainline. The least they could do is at least give the Beltline to US 151/18 off ramps priority green. Way more traffic comes off of there than Midvale Blvd. Why does Midvale get priority green?

[US 12 fan]

Apparently the US 12/18 County AB intersection is completed and will fully open today. 

[The Ghostbuster]

My mother and I drove through the future interchange after going apple-picking at Door Creek Orchard. I thought the new interchange looked pretty good. Now if they could find a way to complete the proposed freeway conversion between Interstate 39/90 and CTH N, that would be great.

[peterj920]

My mother and I drove through the future interchange after going apple-picking at Door Creek Orchard. I thought the new interchange looked pretty good. Now if they could find a way to complete the proposed freeway conversion between Interstate 39/90 and CTH N, that would be great.

Top priority should be to build an interchange at US 12/County K. There are major backups there and major backups. Between County AB and N traffic moved just fine and there aren't any backups. Otherwise work on US 51 between the Beltline and Wis 30. Traffic backs up at those 3 lights.

[triplemultiplex]

One need only look at all the skid marks left by trucks at that damned CTH K intersection to set an idea of how overdue that interchange is.

[The Ghostbuster]

There would have to be a few relocations to build an interchange at CTH K, but I agree it should be done. Also, the driveway to the farmhouse just south of CTH K should be closed and relocated, perhaps via an extension of Barbender Rd.

[JREwing78]

Not that US-12 is apparently that high on WisDOT's priority list, but there's no reason to have any stoplights between Sauk City and Middleton.

Springfield Corners will require installation of frontage roads and having US-12 overpass County P and Hwy 19/Balles Rd; it's too tight to put in appropriate ramps if the side roads overpass US-12. It's probably the path of least resistance for the western Hwy 19 interchange as well.

That would relocate the first stoplight to Hwy 78 just south of Sauk City, where it would likely remain as existing WisDOT plans call for a southern bypass of Sauk City, which would have to initiate somewhere south of County Y to avoid having to displace residences.

[triplemultiplex]

WisDOT's current preferred alternatives for converting US 12 into a freeway up to Springfield Corners:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/12freeway/maps.aspx

They're suddenly a big fan of split diamonds, it would seem.

[SEWIGuy]

WisDOT's current preferred alternatives for converting US 12 into a freeway up to Springfield Corners:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/12freeway/maps.aspx

They're suddenly a big fan of split diamonds, it would seem.

There's been no movement on this project for eight years.

[The Ghostbuster]

And I doubt any movement will be done anytime soon, if ever. I would still like a Sauk City Bypass to be constructed, since the deferred construction date for the potential bypass expired in 2020 (as part of the deal to expand US 12 between Middleton and Sauk City to four lanes).

[peterj920]

And I doubt any movement will be done anytime soon, if ever. I would still like a Sauk City Bypass to be constructed, since the deferred construction date for the potential bypass expired in 2020 (as part of the deal to expand US 12 between Middleton and Sauk City to four lanes).

At this point why not at least construct a 4 lane undivided roadway from Sauk City to County Z and close the 4 lane gap? Doing that wouldn't cost that much to build and wouldn't require that much ROW.

[triplemultiplex]

The cost difference relative to the safety improvement is insufficient, in my opinion.  Better to line up the funds for a proper four lane divided facility than have to spend money twice to fix some janky, interim 'solution'.

[SEWIGuy]

Yeah, I don't think we will see many four-lane undivided rural highways in the future.

[The Ghostbuster]

The Atwood Ave. project should be wrapping up in about a month. I went by there and saw that the pavement, curbs, and gutters were down, and construction seemed to be nearing completion. It is still just one-way between Cottage Grove Rd. and Walter St., and two-way from there to Fair Oaks Ave: https://www.cityofmadison.com/engineering/documents/projects/Atwood%20Avenue%20-%20Sept_%201%20traffic%20switch.pdf. The detour signs are still in place along Milwaukee St., Stoughton Rd., and Cottage Grove Rd. I still dislike the fact that they narrowed the street from two lanes in each direction to one lane in the outbound direction (matching the segment between Fair Oaks Ave. and Oakridge Ave.).

[peterj920]

Yeah, I don't think we will see many four-lane undivided rural highways in the future.

There seems to be more and more passing lanes constructed with 3 lane stretches. The longest 4 lane rural undivided is US 51 between Janesville and Beloit.

I was just thinking of a cheap alternative to stop the bottlenecks where US 12 narrows to 2 lanes. The 2 lane stretch can get slow and backed up especially on weekends. If new passing lanes can be constructed why not add a lane each direction to the existing highway and keep it undivided to minimize ROW impacts?

[mgk920]

Yeah, I don't think we will see many four-lane undivided rural highways in the future.

There seems to be more and more passing lanes constructed with 3 lane stretches. The longest 4 lane rural undivided is US 51 between Janesville and Beloit.

I was just thinking of a cheap alternative to stop the bottlenecks where US 12 narrows to 2 lanes. The 2 lane stretch can get slow and backed up especially on weekends. If new passing lanes can be constructed why not add a lane each direction to the existing highway and keep it undivided to minimize ROW impacts?

I believe that four lane undivided is now frowned upon for surface roadways due to the unsafe situations created by vehicles that are stopped in a left lane while waiting to turn left.  usually two lanes with a turn lane on the right or a shared center left turn lane is called for now.

Mike

[JREwing78]

Michigan seems to prefer the 4-lane undivided sections of passing lane, at least on its newer builds. I suspect it's more about how its able to acquire ROW; in more populated areas it's probably easier to build as 2 3-lane sections rather than 1 4-lane section. Generally these sections of passing lane are not in areas with heavy left-turning traffic, so they get away with it.

The main reason US-51 is 4-lane undivided between Janesville and Beloit is historical; it was built out before I-90 was built, and it was cheaper/easier to leave it v.s. shrinking back down to 2 lanes. It has relatively light traffic for 4 lanes, so they kinda get away with it. The spots with heaver left turn traffic have a center turn lane, and through the Town of Beloit it's road-dieted to 2 lanes with a TWLTL.

[peterj920]

Yeah, I don't think we will see many four-lane undivided rural highways in the future.

There seems to be more and more passing lanes constructed with 3 lane stretches. The longest 4 lane rural undivided is US 51 between Janesville and Beloit.

I was just thinking of a cheap alternative to stop the bottlenecks where US 12 narrows to 2 lanes. The 2 lane stretch can get slow and backed up especially on weekends. If new passing lanes can be constructed why not add a lane each direction to the existing highway and keep it undivided to minimize ROW impacts?

I believe that four lane undivided is now frowned upon for surface roadways due to the unsafe situations created by vehicles that are stopped in a left lane while waiting to turn left.  usually two lanes with a turn lane on the right or a shared center left turn lane is called for now.

Mike

In that area there isn't much to worry about for left turning traffic except for Sauk Prairie Rd and there's already turn lanes at Wis 60. There is a trend going away from new construction of 4 lane undivided but is still used where there is narrow ROW in urban areas.

I'd prefer a full 4 lane Sauk City Bypass but if the funds and planning aren't there to build it anytime soon why not look at economic options to at least improve the existing 2 lane section of US 12 and provide some relief?

[mgk920]

Yeah, I don't think we will see many four-lane undivided rural highways in the future.

There seems to be more and more passing lanes constructed with 3 lane stretches. The longest 4 lane rural undivided is US 51 between Janesville and Beloit.

I was just thinking of a cheap alternative to stop the bottlenecks where US 12 narrows to 2 lanes. The 2 lane stretch can get slow and backed up especially on weekends. If new passing lanes can be constructed why not add a lane each direction to the existing highway and keep it undivided to minimize ROW impacts?

I believe that four lane undivided is now frowned upon for surface roadways due to the unsafe situations created by vehicles that are stopped in a left lane while waiting to turn left.  usually two lanes with a turn lane on the right or a shared center left turn lane is called for now.

Mike

In that area there isn't much to worry about for left turning traffic except for Sauk Prairie Rd and there's already turn lanes at Wis 60. There is a trend going away from new construction of 4 lane undivided but is still used where there is narrow ROW in urban areas.

I'd prefer a full 4 lane Sauk City Bypass but if the funds and planning aren't there to build it anytime soon why not look at economic options to at least improve the existing 2 lane section of US 12 and provide some relief?

Right now, I'd also be happy with building the long-proposed US 12 Sauk (Prairie) bypass as a 'super two' on an upgradable four lane ROW.

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

I have a feeling a US 12 Sauk City Bypass will not be built anytime soon, if ever. If that is the case, maybe existing 12 between STH 60 and Business 12/CTH Z/Prairie Rd. Could be expanded to four lanes.

[dvferyance]

WisDOT's current preferred alternatives for converting US 12 into a freeway up to Springfield Corners:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/12freeway/maps.aspx

They're suddenly a big fan of split diamonds, it would seem.

There's been no movement on this project for eight years.

Other than an interchange at Hwy K no further upgrades are needed.

[The Ghostbuster]

As of Friday, Atwood Ave. from Fair Oaks Ave. to Cottage Grove Rd. has reopened to traffic in both directions: https://www.cityofmadison.com/news/atwood-avenue-now-open-to-bidirectional-traffic.

[peterj920]

WisDOT's current preferred alternatives for converting US 12 into a freeway up to Springfield Corners:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/12freeway/maps.aspx

They're suddenly a big fan of split diamonds, it would seem.

There's been no movement on this project for eight years.

Other than an interchange at Hwy K no further upgrades are needed.

Obviously you don't drive that stretch. There's traffic signals at Wis 19 and County P. There is heavy traffic to Sauk City and interchanges are needed at those intersections. Anyone who lives on the West Side uses US 12 to get to The Dells and I-90/I-94 to the northwest since it runs along the far east side of Madison and is out of the way.

[GeekJedi]

WisDOT's current preferred alternatives for converting US 12 into a freeway up to Springfield Corners:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/12freeway/maps.aspx

They're suddenly a big fan of split diamonds, it would seem.

There's been no movement on this project for eight years.

Other than an interchange at Hwy K no further upgrades are needed.

Obviously you don't drive that stretch. There's traffic signals at Wis 19 and County P. There is heavy traffic to Sauk City and interchanges are needed at those intersections. Anyone who lives on the West Side uses US 12 to get to The Dells and I-90/I-94 to the northwest since it runs along the far east side of Madison and is out of the way.

Agreed. Both of those signals cause issues for traffic in the area. There is plenty of traffic going up to Sauk City to warrant something different. Much like the stoplights along the 16/67 bypass in Oconomowoc. The cost-cutting they did in these areas is starting to haunt us.