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Author Topic: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165  (Read 6365 times)

WKDAVE

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Doesn't this "violate" naming rules?  Shouldn't it be an even first number since it connects two interstates?

For example I-205 connects I-5 to I-580 in CA.

WESTERN KENTUCKY (4/3/19) — U.S. Rep. James Comer and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell today introduced companion legislation to begin the process of designating a section of the Wendell H. Ford Western Kentucky Parkway in Muhlenberg and Ohio counties as a spur of Interstate 69 (I-369). The pieces of legislation would add the section of roadway to the list of “High Priority Corridors,” and, once additional steps have been taken at the state and federal levels to make the designation official, would label the roadway as I-369.
 
This new designation will highlight the region’s connections with the federal interstate highway system and aid in attracting new industry and economic development to this area.
 
“A federal interstate designation can bolster the Western Kentucky Parkway’s capacity to drive economic development and new jobs in Ohio and Muhlenberg counties,” said McConnell. “Together with Congressman Comer and local leaders, we are working to support the region’s growth to benefit workers and families. As Senate Majority Leader, I consistently work to bring national attention to Kentucky’s priorities, and I’m hopeful this designation will be enacted to deliver positive results for the Commonwealth.”
 
“Designating this crucial section of the Western Kentucky Parkway as a federal interstate spur instantly enhances Muhlenberg and Ohio counties’ attractiveness as an industrial destination. This will lead to better paying jobs and greater opportunities for both communities,” Comer said.
 
Melinda Gibbons-Prunty, state representative for Muhlenberg and Hopkins counties, said, "I applaud Congressman Comer and Sen. McConnell for bringing forth this important I-69 legislation. They, along with the rest of our federal delegation, the Muhlenberg Alliance for Progress Economic Development Board, county officials, Senator Embry and myself are all working together to be proactive to help make this designation a possibility. Hopefully by making it a ‘High Priority Corridor’ the process will be sped up so that we can attract businesses to locate in the region.”
 
Gary Jones, director of the Muhlenberg Alliance for Progress, said, “This Interstate 369 designation for the Wendell H. Ford Parkway will be another piece of the economic puzzle we are trying to assemble in Muhlenberg and Ohio counties. The word ‘parkway’ has many different connotations across the nation, but everyone knows what an interstate highway is. It will definitely help us in our marketing efforts going forward.”
 
Scott Lewis, state representative for Ohio County, said, “This designation of this stretch of the Western Kentucky Parkway as a spur of I-69 is terrific news for our area’s infrastructure and will highlight our attractiveness for new economic development and industry. I want to thank Congressman Comer and Sen. McConnell for all of their work to push this on the federal level, as it will be a tremendous benefit to our communities.”
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wdcrft63

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2019, 05:12:46 PM »

Yes, the number should be I-x69 with x=an even number. Hopefully AASHTO or FHWA would make this determination.

I'm surprised, though, that the proposal doesn't extend the interstate designation all the way to I-65. If that were done, several folks in the forum have suggested that the parkway could be designated as an extension of I-71 rather than as a spur of I-69. Or, I suppose, it could be I-68.
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jnewkirk77

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2019, 07:31:15 PM »

I sent a letter to Rep. Guthrie suggesting the I-71 extension. He has been a big help in getting 165 done, so perhaps he can get things rolling. Hopefully the idea will be given a chance.
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WKDAVE

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2019, 07:31:47 PM »

Yes, the number should be I-x69 with x=an even number. Hopefully AASHTO or FHWA would make this determination.

I'm surprised, though, that the proposal doesn't extend the interstate designation all the way to I-65. If that were done, several folks in the forum have suggested that the parkway could be designated as an extension of I-71 rather than as a spur of I-69. Or, I suppose, it could be I-68.

I am surprised they didn't extended it either, except that Congressman's district (who proposed it) ends in county where it ends. Also surprised because the only "bow tie" toll booth interchange on WK Parkway is in the area they want to up grade.
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vdeane

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2019, 10:08:14 PM »

I'd much rather this be an I-71 extension and I-369 saved for the Audubon Parkway (wasn't the latter proposed at one time?).
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SoCal Kid

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2019, 10:31:56 PM »

I agree, should be renumbered
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hbelkins

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2019, 11:15:48 PM »

I would express my opinion of Congressman Jamie Comer here, but it would probably be deleted. Suffice it to say that I'm not a fan.

That being said, I've long said that the WK should be I-58.
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mrose

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2019, 04:39:28 AM »

I always thought WK could be an even 2di in the 50s, and perhaps extended over the BG if they ever connect it to anything.

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ilpt4u

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2019, 05:08:51 AM »

Doesn't this "violate" naming rules?  Shouldn't it be an even first number since it connects two interstates?

For example I-205 connects I-5 to I-580 in CA.
The Even-Odd 3DI “Rules” are more “Guidelines” anyway

IL tends to view Odd 3DIs as touching the Parent once - IL’s I-155 (I-55 to I-74) and I-355 (I-80 to I-290, crossing I-55 and I-88 en route) connect multiple interstates. IL’s other Odd 3DIs are more like true Spurs (I-190/O’Hare Airport Spur and I-172/Quincy Spur). But they all only touch the Parent once. Kentucky may be eyeing this numbering theory with a proposed I-369 designation

Then again, coming soon new I-490 in IL will only touch Parent I-90 once, just north of O’Hare, once completed

Take PA’s I-376 (Touches I-76 twice!) and I-476 (Touches I-76 only once!)...The only explanation I have is Guidelines
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madbengalsfan85

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2019, 12:59:11 PM »

I'm guessing 369 would end at 165? But why not extend the routing to Elizabethtown/I-65, if they're so adamant about converting the parkways to interstates?
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jnewkirk77

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2019, 01:50:13 PM »

I like I-71 because it fits pretty nicely with the existing route from Louisville to Cleveland.  I don't know how much economic benefit will come from it, but it's worth a shot.
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SoCal Kid

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2019, 01:51:57 PM »

I like I-71 because it fits pretty nicely with the existing route from Louisville to Cleveland.  I don't know how much economic benefit will come from it, but it's worth a shot.
^
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Are spurs of spurs of spurs of loops of spurs of loops a thing? ;)

The Ghostbuster

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2019, 03:42:52 PM »

I would have prefered Interstate 269. I think any Interstate designation on the WKP should go from Interstate 69/169 all the way to Interstate 65. Stopping future 369 at 165 seems half-assed to me.
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mvak36

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2019, 04:47:09 PM »

I like the I-71 idea. Or, if that doesn't work, they could just use I-169. It will be a little weird when it "bumps" off of I-69 (and probably violating some numbering conventions in the process (haven't checked)), but it would save I-369 for the Audubon.

Out of curiosity, is there anything preventing an interstate designation all the way out to Versailles/Lexington area?
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sparker

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2019, 07:50:47 PM »

I like the I-71 idea. Or, if that doesn't work, they could just use I-169. It will be a little weird when it "bumps" off of I-69 (and probably violating some numbering conventions in the process (haven't checked)), but it would save I-369 for the Audubon.

Out of curiosity, is there anything preventing an interstate designation all the way out to Versailles/Lexington area?

Technically, nothing that hasn't already cropped up with conversion of KY parkways -- although the abrupt Bluegrass terminus at US 60 is a bit awkward -- particularly if HB's suggestion of an even 2di in the 50's were to be considered.  Maybe if the Interstate designation could somehow be shunted up an upgraded US 127 to I-64 at Frankfort -- a trunk designation could be considered.  Otherwise, I'd tend to favor the I-71 extension, with the option of the Bluegrass as I-365.

And I'm surprised that the Owensboro backers didn't pipe up with an odd 2di (I-63, anyone?) for the combined Natcher and Audubon, with the US 60 bypass as a connector (with interchange modifications, of course) in order to sate their longstanding desire to be located on a trunk Interstate.
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jnewkirk77

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2019, 11:39:28 AM »

I like the I-71 idea. Or, if that doesn't work, they could just use I-169. It will be a little weird when it "bumps" off of I-69 (and probably violating some numbering conventions in the process (haven't checked)), but it would save I-369 for the Audubon.

Out of curiosity, is there anything preventing an interstate designation all the way out to Versailles/Lexington area?

They'd probably just rebuild the SE quadrant of the existing 69/Pennyrile/WKP interchange to look like the NW part.
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hbelkins

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2019, 07:36:34 PM »

Out of curiosity, is there anything preventing an interstate designation all the way out to Versailles/Lexington area?

Two substandard interchanges at the former locations of toll booths on the BG -- KY 52 at Boston and KY 55 at Bloomfield. Also, the loop ramp from the WK to northbound I-65, which would be used for a short concurrency if the WK and BG parkways became a single interstate.
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wriddle082

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2019, 09:55:20 PM »

I like the I-71 idea. Or, if that doesn't work, they could just use I-169. It will be a little weird when it "bumps" off of I-69 (and probably violating some numbering conventions in the process (haven't checked)), but it would save I-369 for the Audubon.

I-169 has already been reserved for the balance of the Pennyrile Pkwy from I-24 through Hopkinsville to I-69.  Of course it has its share of upgrades that need to be funded before those signs can be posted (obsolete toll booth cloverleaf interchange at KY 1682, and general substandardness from Exit 30 up to I-69), but once they program funding for improvements, they can throw up those I-169 signs.

But yeah, I like the I-71 extension idea too.  Or I-58 would work as well, but only if the BG Pkwy is also included.  And maybe I-58 could just end at US 60 in Versailles just to prove a point.  It’s going to intersect 4 other interstates along its path as it is.  Does it really have to end at one?  Just look at I-26 in Kingsport, TN.
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vdeane

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2019, 01:36:15 PM »

I like the I-71 idea. Or, if that doesn't work, they could just use I-169. It will be a little weird when it "bumps" off of I-69 (and probably violating some numbering conventions in the process (haven't checked)), but it would save I-369 for the Audubon.

I-169 has already been reserved for the balance of the Pennyrile Pkwy from I-24 through Hopkinsville to I-69.  Of course it has its share of upgrades that need to be funded before those signs can be posted (obsolete toll booth cloverleaf interchange at KY 1682, and general substandardness from Exit 30 up to I-69), but once they program funding for improvements, they can throw up those I-169 signs.
I think his idea was to extend the existing I-169, hence the mention of "bumping" I-69.

Quote
But yeah, I like the I-71 extension idea too.  Or I-58 would work as well, but only if the BG Pkwy is also included.  And maybe I-58 could just end at US 60 in Versailles just to prove a point.  It’s going to intersect 4 other interstates along its path as it is.  Does it really have to end at one?  Just look at I-26 in Kingsport, TN.
I-26 connects to the other interstate in the area.  I-58 wouldn't.  The interstates are supposed to be a system, not just a bunch of random freeways with shields slapped on them.  Plus IMO short spurs are more acceptable than long ones, which IMO should be avoided unless there's nothing in the area to connect to, and even then I'm more accepting on the edges of the system (I-40 NC) than in the interior (I-44 OK/TX).
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wdcrft63

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2019, 05:32:06 PM »


Quote
But yeah, I like the I-71 extension idea too.  Or I-58 would work as well, but only if the BG Pkwy is also included.  And maybe I-58 could just end at US 60 in Versailles just to prove a point.  It’s going to intersect 4 other interstates along its path as it is.  Does it really have to end at one?  Just look at I-26 in Kingsport, TN.
I-26 connects to the other interstate in the area.  I-58 wouldn't.  The interstates are supposed to be a system, not just a bunch of random freeways with shields slapped on them.  Plus IMO short spurs are more acceptable than long ones, which IMO should be avoided unless there's nothing in the area to connect to, and even then I'm more accepting on the edges of the system (I-40 NC) than in the interior (I-44 OK/TX).
AASHTO rejected the extension of I-26 signage from I-81 to Kingsport, but Congress mandated it in the SAFE Act in 2005.
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sparker

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2019, 05:43:43 PM »

Unless there are realistic plans afoot to connect the Bluegrass to either (or both) I-64 or I-75 -- and by that I mean a viable (physically and politically) alignment identified -- I wouldn't consider a 2di for that route; there's enough such "dead ends" in the current network already.  A 3di like, as mentioned previously, I-365, would certainly suffice if an I-designation is ever sought for that facility as is.  Still think a I-71 extension using I-65 as a connector would be the best bet for the remainder of the WKY -- and a highly appropriate number to use as an offshoot of the nascent I-69. 
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hbelkins

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2019, 08:08:00 PM »


Quote
But yeah, I like the I-71 extension idea too.  Or I-58 would work as well, but only if the BG Pkwy is also included.  And maybe I-58 could just end at US 60 in Versailles just to prove a point.  It’s going to intersect 4 other interstates along its path as it is.  Does it really have to end at one?  Just look at I-26 in Kingsport, TN.
I-26 connects to the other interstate in the area.  I-58 wouldn't.  The interstates are supposed to be a system, not just a bunch of random freeways with shields slapped on them.  Plus IMO short spurs are more acceptable than long ones, which IMO should be avoided unless there's nothing in the area to connect to, and even then I'm more accepting on the edges of the system (I-40 NC) than in the interior (I-44 OK/TX).
AASHTO rejected the extension of I-26 signage from I-81 to Kingsport, but Congress mandated it in the SAFE Act in 2005.

I'd have to go back and check my photos, but I believe that there was a time period when both I-26 and I-181 were signed.

I still don't get the logic of having the interstate end at US 11W instead of continuing along the freeway a couple of miles north to the end of the freeway at the US 23/TN 36 interchange at the state line.

Tennessee has now actually signed the beginning of US 23's hidden state route at the US 11W exit.

But concerning the possibility of an interstate being designated for the BG Parkway, there are other examples of 2dis ending at US routes.
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Roadsguy

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2019, 08:54:29 PM »


Quote
But yeah, I like the I-71 extension idea too.  Or I-58 would work as well, but only if the BG Pkwy is also included.  And maybe I-58 could just end at US 60 in Versailles just to prove a point.  It’s going to intersect 4 other interstates along its path as it is.  Does it really have to end at one?  Just look at I-26 in Kingsport, TN.
I-26 connects to the other interstate in the area.  I-58 wouldn't.  The interstates are supposed to be a system, not just a bunch of random freeways with shields slapped on them.  Plus IMO short spurs are more acceptable than long ones, which IMO should be avoided unless there's nothing in the area to connect to, and even then I'm more accepting on the edges of the system (I-40 NC) than in the interior (I-44 OK/TX).
AASHTO rejected the extension of I-26 signage from I-81 to Kingsport, but Congress mandated it in the SAFE Act in 2005.

I'd have to go back and check my photos, but I believe that there was a time period when both I-26 and I-181 were signed.

I still don't get the logic of having the interstate end at US 11W instead of continuing along the freeway a couple of miles north to the end of the freeway at the US 23/TN 36 interchange at the state line.

Tennessee has now actually signed the beginning of US 23's hidden state route at the US 11W exit.

But concerning the possibility of an interstate being designated for the BG Parkway, there are other examples of 2dis ending at US routes.

Did I-181 ever continue to the state line or did it end where I-26 ends now?
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sparker

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2019, 10:07:16 PM »

But concerning the possibility of an interstate being designated for the BG Parkway, there are other examples of 2dis ending at US routes.

Yes, but not with a logical terminus at an Interstate as close as it would be at the east end of the Bluegrass.  OTOH, a trunk designation may well call attention to that longstanding "gap" (not that the local NIMBY's would give a rat's ass about the perception of an incomplete corridor vis-ŕ-vis their own interests).

Now that the "camel's nose is through the door" regarding Interstate designation of seemingly more and more of the KY parkway system, it will definitely be interesting to kick back, pull up a chair, and watch how it plays out from here.  On a related note -- let's just see if this puts any part of the I-66 proposal back into the arena.   
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SteveG1988

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Re: Western Kentucky Parkway as Interstate spur from I-69 to I-165
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2019, 04:51:01 AM »

I kind of expected the Western Kentucky Parkway to become interstate. Was part of my internal reasoning for the lack of exit renumbering on it. "oh they will probably make this an interstate too"
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