More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend

[NWI_Irish96]

Adding to what has been said above, I'll ask this question.

Why must US 31 be an outlier?

With the construction of I-69, every other corner of Indiana is being connected with an Interstate. Why must the US 31 corridor between South Bend and Indianapolis be different? Surely, it generates more traffic than most of the new I-69 corridor? Even if it doesn't happen in the near term, the long term goal should still be Interstate-grade freeway between South Bend and Indianapolis.

I agree, especially when billions of dollars are currently being invested to upgrade SR-37 to interstate standards when there was already a 4-lane divided highway similar to the state of US-31 there. I'm not saying I'm against the upgrade projects, both are certainly needed, but the same efforts should be put onto the US-31 corridor in the near future.

I would understand it more if they were a state that took a more conservative approach to large-scale corridor upgrades, but if I-69 is any indication, they're not.

IN 37 between Indy and Bloomington gets traffic similar to the parts of US 31 that have already been upgraded.  The sections left don't get traffic anywhere near those levels.

The one J-turn I see that is going to be really bad is the one just north of US 24, as that one will have a whole bunch of trucks.  The other areas where they are going in don't get a lot of truck traffic and won't be a big deal.  That either needs to become an interchange or just live with having a light there.

I've traveled both US 31 and I-65 a whole lot.  By a large margin, widening the rest of I-65 to six lanes will do more to improve traffic and safety than converting the rest of US 31 to freeway.  That should be the higher priority.

[monty]

Took a quick look and it appears that the US 31 traffic count in Tipton County (unimproved) is slightly greater than the I 69 traffic count in Morgan County. Both around 25k. It'd be an interesting project to compare different segments.

[tdindy88]

I've always wondered myself. If I-69 did not exist and there was no desire for a freeway between Indianapolis and Evansville, would SR 37 be changed between Indy and Bloomington in a similar fashion as US 31 is today? Hypothetically, I could see SR 37 converted to a freeway from I-465 south to past SR 144 and then a new freeway SR 37 built outside of Martinsville (a la like the Kokomo bypass,) and then the section of SR 37 from Walnut Street to the north to Walnut Street in the south converted to freeway around Bloomington. INDOT in this manner would leave two sections as they are today, but at least SR 37 would be free flowing. 

And as for I-69 already, don't think that the state didn't do things conservatively. On the first four sections they did the bare minimum when it came to building that highway already. They eliminated a couple of exits, a potential rest area, mileage signs. The road quality would probably be a little worse if there were more traffic on it, they already skimped out on that highway. If INDOT had it their way I-69 would only be six lanes wide on a very short section around Bloomington, it was supposed to be four lanes for nearly all of Section 5.

[ysuindy]

Adding to what has been said above, I'll ask this question.

Why must US 31 be an outlier?

With the construction of I-69, every other corner of Indiana is being connected with an Interstate. Why must the US 31 corridor between South Bend and Indianapolis be different? Surely, it generates more traffic than most of the new I-69 corridor? Even if it doesn't happen in the near term, the long term goal should still be Interstate-grade freeway between South Bend and Indianapolis.

I agree, especially when billions of dollars are currently being invested to upgrade SR-37 to interstate standards when there was already a 4-lane divided highway similar to the state of US-31 there. I'm not saying I'm against the upgrade projects, both are certainly needed, but the same efforts should be put onto the US-31 corridor in the near future.

I would understand it more if they were a state that took a more conservative approach to large-scale corridor upgrades, but if I-69 is any indication, they're not.

IN 37 between Indy and Bloomington gets traffic similar to the parts of US 31 that have already been upgraded.  The sections left don't get traffic anywhere near those levels.

The one J-turn I see that is going to be really bad is the one just north of US 24, as that one will have a whole bunch of trucks.  The other areas where they are going in don't get a lot of truck traffic and won't be a big deal.  That either needs to become an interchange or just live with having a light there.

I've traveled both US 31 and I-65 a whole lot.  By a large margin, widening the rest of I-65 to six lanes will do more to improve traffic and safety than converting the rest of US 31 to freeway.  That should be the higher priority.

I completely agree with all of this.  I would add getting six lanes on I-70 should be a priority over converting the rest of US 31 to freeway.

As to the J turn at 100N (just north of US 24 at the truck stop), I'm really struggling to see how the movement from southbound 31 to the truck stop (east of the freeway) can be done safely.

Using the distance feature on Google Maps (yeah not exact) I'm getting about 1,000 feet from the end of the ramp from 24 to northbound 31 to the intersection at 100N where you would turn in to the truck stop.  They can't put the J turn there, can they?

Southbound traffic will need to navigate the J turn, head uphill on 31 and cross both lanes of traffic, also dealing with the merging traffic from 24. 

Unless they push the J turn to south of the 24 interchange.

I think having traffic navigate both the loop ramps at 24 (south to east, east to north) would be safer than a J turn north of the interchange.

[bmeiser]

All I know is when they J turn that intersection, regardless of how they do it, the BP by Grissom will get my southbound business instead of that truck stop.

[monty]

Today's Kokomo Tribune with the "push-back"  from legislators: https://www.kokomotribune.com/news/local_news/legislators-planned-j-turns-concern-residents/article_040f99b6-5a74-11ea-bf25-6f88078f0337.html
Manning said he has received many phone calls and emails from area residents opposing the intersections, and he has relayed those concerns to INDOT.

He said he also has concerns about installing median U-turns on U.S. 31 because the state has never built one on the intersections of such a busy and heavily trafficked highway.

"I understand that INDOT has the data that show J-turns help with safety, and that's why they want them,"  he said. "However, I'm concerned because I have yet to see an example of a J-turn on a highway like U.S. 31 ... While it's not interstate level, it's still a very busy road with a lot of people driving quickly."  - Rep Ethan Manning

[Terry Shea]

Today’s Kokomo Tribune with the “push-back” from legislators: https://www.kokomotribune.com/news/local_news/legislators-planned-j-turns-concern-residents/article_040f99b6-5a74-11ea-bf25-6f88078f0337.html
Manning said he has received many phone calls and emails from area residents opposing the intersections, and he has relayed those concerns to INDOT.

He said he also has concerns about installing median U-turns on U.S. 31 because the state has never built one on the intersections of such a busy and heavily trafficked highway.

“I understand that INDOT has the data that show J-turns help with safety, and that’s why they want them,” he said. “However, I’m concerned because I have yet to see an example of a J-turn on a highway like U.S. 31 … While it’s not interstate level, it’s still a very busy road with a lot of people driving quickly.” - Rep Ethan Manning

I don't understand what they're thinking with using J-turns to eliminate stop lights.  In Michigan we have a lot of these J-turns, but it often still requires a stop light at the intersections plus stoplights at the end of the J-turns. 

[silverback1065]

Today's Kokomo Tribune with the "push-back"  from legislators: https://www.kokomotribune.com/news/local_news/legislators-planned-j-turns-concern-residents/article_040f99b6-5a74-11ea-bf25-6f88078f0337.html
Manning said he has received many phone calls and emails from area residents opposing the intersections, and he has relayed those concerns to INDOT.

He said he also has concerns about installing median U-turns on U.S. 31 because the state has never built one on the intersections of such a busy and heavily trafficked highway.

"I understand that INDOT has the data that show J-turns help with safety, and that's why they want them,"  he said. "However, I'm concerned because I have yet to see an example of a J-turn on a highway like U.S. 31 ... While it's not interstate level, it's still a very busy road with a lot of people driving quickly."  - Rep Ethan Manning

I don't understand what they're thinking with using J-turns to eliminate stop lights.  In Michigan we have a lot of these J-turns, but it often still requires a stop light at the intersections plus stoplights at the end of the J-turns.

none of these will have signals. the ones at 218 might though. 

[hbelkins]

Someone needs to pay those complainers to go to Maryland's Eastern Shore and take a look at US 301.

For that matter, Kentucky has been building a few of them, and is actually considering one for an urban area (US 25/421 in Richmond.)

[The Ghostbuster]

Wisconsin also uses J-Turn intersections on some high-capacity roadways. In any event, maybe the locals prefer a freeway conversion to installing J-Turns on US 31.

[monty]

Noticed lots of survey stakes along US 31 in Tipton and Hamilton counties this week. Appear to be related to the dozen or so homes being torn down and removal of driveways to same and also farm field entrances (without buildings).  Layout of the Bakers Corner interchange too.

[monty]

INDOT is demolishing the houses they bought in Tipton County on the US 31 ROW. Some local meetings in Tipton have INDOT backtracking on an interchange at Division Road in favor of an overpass (only) or maybe even a "right in - and right out"  controlled intersection. Siting cost - saving measures. I believe the right turn only move is an "offer"  as an alternative to the J turns that the Coalition and most elected officials have stated their disapproval for numerous times now.

[ibthebigd]

What about the Railroad tracks near there?

SM-G950U

[sparker]

INDOT is demolishing the houses they bought in Tipton County on the US 31 ROW. Some local meetings in Tipton have INDOT backtracking on an interchange at Division Road in favor of an overpass (only) or maybe even a "right in - and right out"  controlled intersection. Siting cost - saving measures. I believe the right turn only move is an "offer"  as an alternative to the J turns that the Coalition and most elected officials have stated their disapproval for numerous times now.

From reading previous posts in this thread, I've been under the impression that US 31 was slated to be a full freeway from I-465 through Kokomo, with the suggested J-turns and RIRO's tentatively slated for Miami County between Kokomo and US 24.  Is the activity cited above INDOT "backtracking" or otherwise economizing?

[NWI_Irish96]

INDOT is demolishing the houses they bought in Tipton County on the US 31 ROW. Some local meetings in Tipton have INDOT backtracking on an interchange at Division Road in favor of an overpass (only) or maybe even a "right in - and right out"  controlled intersection. Siting cost - saving measures. I believe the right turn only move is an "offer"  as an alternative to the J turns that the Coalition and most elected officials have stated their disapproval for numerous times now.

From reading previous posts in this thread, I've been under the impression that US 31 was slated to be a full freeway from I-465 through Kokomo, with the suggested J-turns and RIRO's tentatively slated for Miami County between Kokomo and US 24.  Is the activity cited above INDOT "backtracking" or otherwise economizing?

It's not slated to be full freeway.  It's slated to be free flowing, with the removal of all stoplights and railroad crossings. 

[monty]

What about the Railroad tracks near there?

SM-G950U

Plans are still in place to bridge over the RR. Now delayed to 2022.

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://www.kokomotribune.com/news/local_news/state-pulls-funding-for-us-31-division-rd-interchange/article_bfd1a140-8afc-11ea-aadd-fb70d770daa1.html

INDOT has no money to put a new interchange on 31 at Division Road in Tipton County, but people are pushing INDOT to put one...

What are the other alternatives to an interchange at this location? Well, either a bridge or right-in, right-out configuration...

It also talks about what intersections are getting an overpass as well...

[Terry Shea]

https://www.kokomotribune.com/news/local_news/state-pulls-funding-for-us-31-division-rd-interchange/article_bfd1a140-8afc-11ea-aadd-fb70d770daa1.html

INDOT has no money to put a new interchange on 31 at Division Road in Tipton County, but people are pushing INDOT to put one...

What are the other alternatives to an interchange at this location? Well, either a bridge or right-in, right-out configuration...

It also talks about what intersections are getting an overpass as well...

"Officials have asked the state to postpone the project until funding can be restored, Mullins said, but INDOT is set on U.S. 31 being a full, limited-access highway by 2025 and won't push back the timeline."
I take it they mean just for Tipton county, not the entire stretch from Indy to South Bend.  That would seem way too ambitious to be completed by 2025.

[monty]

INDOT plans for limited access upgrade on US 31 from SR 38 to SR 931. 23 miles. https://www.in.gov/indot/4051.htm

[sprjus4]

INDOT plans for limited access upgrade on US 31 from SR 38 to SR 931. 23 miles. https://www.in.gov/indot/4051.htm

Are there any cost estimates?

Certainly a major step forward in completing the South Bend to Indianapolis corridor.

[monty]

INDOT plans for limited access upgrade on US 31 from SR 38 to SR 931. 23 miles. https://www.in.gov/indot/4051.htm

Are there any cost estimates?

Certainly a major step forward in completing the South Bend to Indianapolis corridor.

Glad there is an announced plan / overall common strategy. Appears that the whole thing will be piecework until one day it's all done. I wonder, when will "that day"  come?

[Great Lakes Roads]

INDOT plans for limited access upgrade on US 31 from SR 38 to SR 931. 23 miles. https://www.in.gov/indot/4051.htm

Are there any cost estimates?

Certainly a major step forward in completing the South Bend to Indianapolis corridor.

Glad there is an announced plan / overall common strategy. Appears that the whole thing will be piecework until one day it’s all done. I wonder, when will “that day” come?

Are they planning on building an interchange at Division Road? I would like to see INDOT add another interchange in Tipton County instead of relying on the one interchange for the whole county.

[sprjus4]

INDOT plans for limited access upgrade on US 31 from SR 38 to SR 931. 23 miles. https://www.in.gov/indot/4051.htm

Are there any cost estimates?

Certainly a major step forward in completing the South Bend to Indianapolis corridor.

Glad there is an announced plan / overall common strategy. Appears that the whole thing will be piecework until one day it's all done. I wonder, when will "that day"  come?

Are they planning on building an interchange at Division Road? I would like to see INDOT add another interchange in Tipton County instead of relying on the one interchange for the whole county.

Unfortunately, that is not the plan.

Intersecting Roadway - Division Road
Intersection Treatment - Proposed Overpass or RI/RO

[monty]

I would suspect that Division Road can be an interchange if the county picks up a good portion of the tab. In my opinion, that would be consistent with the two Hamilton County interchanges to the south of SR 28.

[Roadgeekteen]

Indiana should change their speed limit laws to allow these new stretches of US 31 freeway to be posted at 70 instead of 65.