More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend

[sprjus4]

Indiana should change their speed limit laws to allow these new stretches of US 31 freeway to be posted at 70 instead of 65.

And to allow the existing divided highways to be posted at 65 instead of 60.

[thefarmerchris]

Indiana should change their speed limit laws to allow these new stretches of US 31 freeway to be posted at 70 instead of 65.

And to allow the existing divided highways to be posted at 65 instead of 60.

INDOT would never go for it because that would make too much sense......

[tdindy88]

Only on US 31 do you travel from the grade-separated freeway with limited access to an expressway with driveways and the speed limit goes UP!

If they ever did it right, it could be 70 from the Kokomo Bypass south to SR 38, 65 from SR 38 to 146th Street, 60 from 146th to 116th Streets and 55 south from there to I-465.

[sprjus4]

Only on US 31 do you travel from the grade-separated freeway with limited access to an expressway with driveways and the speed limit goes UP!

If they ever did it right, it could be 70 from the Kokomo Bypass south to SR 38, 65 from SR 38 to 146th Street, 60 from 146th to 116th Streets and 55 south from there to I-465.

If it was right, there would be no 55 mph zone to begin with. 60 mph closer to I-465, 65 mph as you get further out, 70 mph once rural.

[ysuindy]

Drove from Fishers to Kokomo on Sunday. Noticed traffic signals being installed on Indiana 38 at the ramps to and from 31.

My first trip that way in six months. Looked like perhaps a few more empty homes along 31 in Tipton County.

[triplemultiplex]

Lower speed limit increases public pressure to upgrade the facility to freeway?

[silverback1065]

J-Turns are going to be placed in Miami County at CR's 400 and 500 South at US 31.

[SSR_317]

J-Turns are going to be placed in Miami County at CR's 400 and 500 South at US 31.

BOO!

[dvferyance]

J-Turns are going to be placed in Miami County at CR's 400 and 500 South at US 31.

BOO!

I am with you there. I don't see how they are any safer if safety is an issue it would make far more sense to build an overpass if not worth the expense than culd du sac it.

[Great Lakes Roads]

Here is the preferred alternative to replace the stoplight at 236th Street, which is a roundabout interchange.

https://www.in.gov/indot/files/US%2031%20over%20Norfolk%20Southern%20Project%20Limits.pdf

Also, the bridge over the railroad track near Tipton will be a single bridge with a concrete wall dividing the opposing travel lanes.

[silverback1065]

https://www.in.gov/indot/4051.htm

future plans for the corridor in tipton and hamilton co

[sparker]

Here is the preferred alternative to replace the stoplight at 236th Street, which is a roundabout interchange.

https://www.in.gov/indot/files/US%2031%20over%20Norfolk%20Southern%20Project%20Limits.pdf

Also, the bridge over the railroad track near Tipton will be a single bridge with a concrete wall dividing the opposing travel lanes.

https://www.in.gov/indot/4051.htm

future plans for the corridor in tipton and hamilton co

So it looks like the J-turns will be confined to north of Kokomo, with the portion between IN 38 and the Kokomo bypass elevated to limited access, but with one possible RIRO.  That seems to be a design change from just a couple of months ago, when J-turns were proposed for that stretch as well.

[silverback1065]

Here is the preferred alternative to replace the stoplight at 236th Street, which is a roundabout interchange.

https://www.in.gov/indot/files/US%2031%20over%20Norfolk%20Southern%20Project%20Limits.pdf

Also, the bridge over the railroad track near Tipton will be a single bridge with a concrete wall dividing the opposing travel lanes.

https://www.in.gov/indot/4051.htm

future plans for the corridor in tipton and hamilton co

So it looks like the J-turns will be confined to north of Kokomo, with the portion between IN 38 and the Kokomo bypass elevated to limited access, but with one possible RIRO.  That seems to be a design change from just a couple of months ago, when J-turns were proposed for that stretch as well.

The one RIRO is at Division Road in tipton, they're pissed that it's not a full interchange. I agree, it should be an interchange, they need at least 2 for the whole county and that's the perfect second one. it's money why they didn't get it.

[theline]

^^
There are a lot of private drives all along 31 between 38 and 931. Plans show that access for some near the interchanges and near the railroad overpass will be eliminated, but many others are not accounted for by the current INDOT plans. I'm assuming that they will continue to have RIRO access to 31 for the foreseeable future. So Division Road won't be the only RIRO.

[monty]

^^
There are a lot of private drives all along 31 between 38 and 931. Plans show that access for some near the interchanges and near the railroad overpass will be eliminated, but many others are not accounted for by the current INDOT plans. I'm assuming that they will continue to have RIRO access to 31 for the foreseeable future. So Division Road won't be the only RIRO.

INDOT has acquired numerous properties in Tipton County along the ROW and have been tearing the houses down. A dozen or more. Division Road is a battle ground issue.  I'm thinking that there will be an overpass installed there with the county getting an option to pay for the balance of a full interchange.  RIRO doesn't solve the issues of the local traffic that road carries. I agree that the J turns have been pushed further north. INDOT really seems set on getting the Tipton and Hamilton County segments up close to interstate standards sooner rather than later now with the formal release of their plans to remove every road grade crossing.

[theline]

^^
There are a lot of private drives all along 31 between 38 and 931. Plans show that access for some near the interchanges and near the railroad overpass will be eliminated, but many others are not accounted for by the current INDOT plans. I'm assuming that they will continue to have RIRO access to 31 for the foreseeable future. So Division Road won't be the only RIRO.

INDOT has acquired numerous properties in Tipton County along the ROW and have been tearing the houses down. A dozen or more. Division Road is a battle ground issue.  I'm thinking that there will be an overpass installed there with the county getting an option to pay for the balance of a full interchange.  RIRO doesn't solve the issues of the local traffic that road carries. I agree that the J turns have been pushed further north. INDOT really seems set on getting the Tipton and Hamilton County segments up close to interstate standards sooner rather than later now with the formal release of their plans to remove every road grade crossing.

Here's hoping you're right. It would be great to see a freeway with a 65 MPH limit all the way from 38 to 35 North.

[sprjus4]

^^
There are a lot of private drives all along 31 between 38 and 931. Plans show that access for some near the interchanges and near the railroad overpass will be eliminated, but many others are not accounted for by the current INDOT plans. I'm assuming that they will continue to have RIRO access to 31 for the foreseeable future. So Division Road won't be the only RIRO.

INDOT has acquired numerous properties in Tipton County along the ROW and have been tearing the houses down. A dozen or more. Division Road is a battle ground issue.  I'm thinking that there will be an overpass installed there with the county getting an option to pay for the balance of a full interchange.  RIRO doesn't solve the issues of the local traffic that road carries. I agree that the J turns have been pushed further north. INDOT really seems set on getting the Tipton and Hamilton County segments up close to interstate standards sooner rather than later now with the formal release of their plans to remove every road grade crossing.

Here's hoping you're right. It would be great to see a freeway with a 65 MPH limit all the way from 38 to 35 North.

IMO, should be posted 65 mph presently, and 70 mph with a freeway.

[sparker]

^^
There are a lot of private drives all along 31 between 38 and 931. Plans show that access for some near the interchanges and near the railroad overpass will be eliminated, but many others are not accounted for by the current INDOT plans. I'm assuming that they will continue to have RIRO access to 31 for the foreseeable future. So Division Road won't be the only RIRO.

INDOT has acquired numerous properties in Tipton County along the ROW and have been tearing the houses down. A dozen or more. Division Road is a battle ground issue.  I'm thinking that there will be an overpass installed there with the county getting an option to pay for the balance of a full interchange.  RIRO doesn't solve the issues of the local traffic that road carries. I agree that the J turns have been pushed further north. INDOT really seems set on getting the Tipton and Hamilton County segments up close to interstate standards sooner rather than later now with the formal release of their plans to remove every road grade crossing.

Here's hoping you're right. It would be great to see a freeway with a 65 MPH limit all the way from 38 to 35 North.

IN-based posters may want to elaborate (or correct) on this, but it has seemed like INDOT vascillates quite a bit in regards to US 31.  Not terribly long ago they announced that their goal was an Interstate-grade freeway all the way from Indy to the MI state line.  Then it was backed off to spot upgrades; then a change of goals to simply "free-flowing" (hence the J-turn approach) in all areas between IN 38 and US 30 except for the Kokomo bypass, in process at the time.  It's pretty obvious that money is a constant/recurring issue; the US 31 approach may fluctuate with periodic fund identification -- right now, it seems there's just enough in the "kitty" to do something approaching a full freeway north as far as Kokomo (the ROW acquisition underscores this) -- but that's as far as they'll take a comprehensive rebuild; there's just too much in the way of obstacles -- private access, intersections, Grissom, etc. -- to tackle the segment between Kokomo and the Wabash River -- so one of the cheapest, albeit questionable, alternatives to improve the safety aspect of the corridor -- the aforementioned J-turn approach to address cross-traffic -- is still planned for implementation. 

In retrospect, INDOT is approaching US 31 according to the old adage about eating an elephant -- one piece at a time.  Setting Kokomo as a near-term goal for full freeway development seems reasonable; it's the largest city along the corridor, and the freeway bypass is already complete.  The next section to receive this treatment will likely be between US 24 and US 30; while some private access remains, most of it is upgradeable expressway with the various communities along the way previously bypassed.  But north of Kokomo is the most "cluttered" section of the bunch; essentially the original twinned US 31 with roadside access (and amenities) common to divided rural arterials (and yeah, it reminds me of US/CA 99 before that route's incremental freeway upgrades).  I have little doubt that the "full Interstate-grade" criterion is still the long-term goal for US 31 -- but with other massive state projects still in process (e.g. I-69 and IN's share of the Ohio River bridge), Indy-Kokomo is pretty much going to be it until much if not all of the other projects are let.   In a state often known for its penny-pinching, the US 31 approach, except for that very visible section just north of I-465, could fairly be described as a "stealth" project -- get the first section done quietly but publicize it when done and reap the accolades stemming from another two areas connected by freeway -- and wait a while and go from there. 

[NWI_Irish96]

The state consistently said that full freeway is a long term goal. There has never really been a target date for that, nor an indication that it wouldn't be done piecemeal.

[silverback1065]

I've heard a few "green tee" intersections will be put in on it soon, i think at the 2 218 intersections.

[tdindy88]

Will those still be stoplights, if the green tee intersection is what I think it is?

[silverback1065]

Will those still be stoplights, if the green tee intersection is what I think it is?

i think so, i'm not sure what they are really.

[sprjus4]

A Continuous Green T intersection design at a 3-way intersection allows one direction of traffic to keep moving without hitting a traffic signal.

[theline]

I've heard a few "green tee" intersections will be put in on it soon, i think at the 2 218 intersections.

I don't know why a green tee would be put in at the southern 218 intersection. There is no traffic light there now--just a yellow flasher.

[sparker]

I've heard a few "green tee" intersections will be put in on it soon, i think at the 2 218 intersections.

That seems at least as good a design as the J-turn concept, although the notion of free-flowing is pretty much out the window if a "green-T" is deployed.  But it certainly does make sense if an intersecting route (in this case IN 218) "jogs" along the main route in question; assuming there's going to be through/recurring traffic on that intersecting route, a J-turn might not be able to safely accommodate those movements -- backups in traffic lanes would pose a potential problem.  This seems like a decent interim solution until full interchanges can be fiscally addressed (there's been an "ancient" version of this in L.A. on the Baldwin Hills La Cienega expressway at the Stocker intersection for decades).