Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence

[kphoger]

Drivers who switch from the left to the empty right lane in front of me as the approach a red light, thus preventing me from turning right on red.

I'd argue everything noted so far is incompetence.

What's wrong with doing the above?

1.  I try to keep right except to pass, even when driving in town.

2.  When I'm about to change lanes coming up to a stoplight, I glance over my shoulder and check my mirror to make sure nobody is there.  I don't keep looking at the next car behind me in that lane to make sure his right turn signal isn't on.  Besides which, if I'm still approaching the light and there is clear space to change lanes, then the other driver probably hasn't even engaged his turn signal yet anyway.

3.  What if I'm turning into a driveway or onto a side street just a short way up the road?  I'd rather change lanes early when I know it's clear than try and barge my way over into accelerating traffic after the light.  Frankly, I find it more annoying and consider it more incompetent when someone is in the left lane at a stoplight even though he's intending to turn right just after the light.

[roadman]

Drivers who switch from the left to the empty right lane in front of me as the approach a red light, thus preventing me from turning right on red.

I'd argue everything noted so far is incompetence.

What's wrong with doing the above?

1.  I try to keep right except to pass, even when driving in town.

2.  When I'm about to change lanes coming up to a stoplight, I glance over my shoulder and check my mirror to make sure nobody is there.  I don't keep looking at the next car behind me in that lane to make sure his right turn signal isn't on.  Besides which, if I'm still approaching the light and there is clear space to change lanes, then the other driver probably hasn't even engaged his turn signal yet anyway.

3.  What if I'm turning into a driveway or onto a side street just a short way up the road?  I'd rather change lanes early when I know it's clear than try and barge my way over into accelerating traffic after the light.  Frankly, I find it more annoying and consider it more incompetent when someone is in the left lane at a stoplight even though he's intending to turn right just after the light.

What people seem to forget is that, at locations where RTOR is permitted, it's NOT mandatory.

[Beltway]

People who drive over speed bumps at 2 MPH.

I would extend that to: people who brake for speed bumps, period. It is completely unnecessary to use the brakes, at all, ever, for a speed bump.

Unless it is designed improperly.

Similar to this is drivers who slow down to 2 mph to cross railroad tracks.

[jakeroot]

A) not pulling forward when turning left (it's illegal in some places and I don't expect drivers to know the law for every state);

B) not turning left onto a one-way street from a two-way street on red (illegal almost everywhere except where I live and a few other places, so I never beep my horn);

C) slamming on the brakes on a yellow light (stopping on yellow is not required in most states, but it is in some. OR for example, but not WA, so same situation as prior two)...if you have to slam on your brakes, you could have made it!

These could be labelled as "incomptence-fueled" but that's being quite picky, when you consider how large this country is, and how variable the laws are. Standards for "competence" should be lower in the US for this reason.

[jakeroot]

I would extend that to: people who brake for speed bumps, period. It is completely unnecessary to use the brakes, at all, ever, for a speed bump.

Truly competent drivers haul ass between speed bumps to account for lost time, slamming on the brakes right before the speed bump.

But seriously, there's nothing wrong with braking before a speed bump. How stupidly early, before a speed bump, do you have to start slowing down not to touch the brakes? Manual or auto.

[webny99]

I would extend that to: people who brake for speed bumps, period. It is completely unnecessary to use the brakes, at all, ever, for a speed bump.

Truly competent drivers haul ass between speed bumps to account for lost time, slamming on the brakes right before the speed bump.
But seriously, there's nothing wrong with braking before a speed bump. How stupidly early, before a speed bump, do you have to start slowing down not to touch the brakes? Manual or auto.

There's a road near me with seven speed bumps (yes, you read that correctly) over the course of about 1/2 mile. I can maintain about 20 mph for the whole length of the road without ever touching the brakes once (the speed limit is 25 mph). I would vastly prefer maintaining a slow and steady speed, when the alternative is giving so much gas in between, that you are going unsustainably fast and must brake upon approaching each bump.

There are exceptions, of course. There's four speed bumps at the end of I-190 approaching the Lewiston border crossing into Canada. Obviously, you can't go over those at freeway speeds, but even if you've slowed well in advance for the speed limit drop, it's tough not to get going too fast and have to brake for them. I think they're considerably bigger than the ones I referred to above, too.

[kphoger]

Drivers who switch from the left to the empty right lane in front of me as the approach a red light, thus preventing me from turning right on red.

I'd argue everything noted so far is incompetence.

What's wrong with doing the above?

1.  I try to keep right except to pass, even when driving in town.

2.  When I'm about to change lanes coming up to a stoplight, I glance over my shoulder and check my mirror to make sure nobody is there.  I don't keep looking at the next car behind me in that lane to make sure his right turn signal isn't on.  Besides which, if I'm still approaching the light and there is clear space to change lanes, then the other driver probably hasn't even engaged his turn signal yet anyway.

3.  What if I'm turning into a driveway or onto a side street just a short way up the road?  I'd rather change lanes early when I know it's clear than try and barge my way over into accelerating traffic after the light.  Frankly, I find it more annoying and consider it more incompetent when someone is in the left lane at a stoplight even though he's intending to turn right just after the light.

What people seem to forget is that, at locations where RTOR is permitted, it's NOT mandatory.

I believe it's been established that, as the law in New Jersey actually reads, turning right on red is technically required in that state.

[Beltway]

What people seem to forget is that, at locations where RTOR is permitted, it's NOT mandatory.

I believe it's been established that, as the law in New Jersey actually reads, turning right on red is technically required in that state.

Maybe it's just me, but if someone easily -can- turn right, and their turn signal is indicating that they will be, that it is inconsiderate to hold up a vehicle behind them.

[kphoger]

What people seem to forget is that, at locations where RTOR is permitted, it's NOT mandatory.

I believe it's been established that, as the law in New Jersey actually reads, turning right on red is technically required in that state.

Maybe it's just me, but if someone easily -can- turn right, and their turn signal is indicating that they will be, that it is inconsiderate to hold up a vehicle behind them.

But what started this conversation was being annoyed when someone not turning right "blocks" someone else from turning right at a red light.  Roadman was therefore simply pointing out that nobody should feel entitled to turn right at a red light, considering the movement isn't even required when permitted.

[J N Winkler]

Drivers who switch from the left to the empty right lane in front of me as the approach a red light, thus preventing me from turning right on red.

What's wrong with doing the above?

1.  I try to keep right except to pass, even when driving in town.

2.  When I'm about to change lanes coming up to a stoplight, I glance over my shoulder and check my mirror to make sure nobody is there.  I don't keep looking at the next car behind me in that lane to make sure his right turn signal isn't on.  Besides which, if I'm still approaching the light and there is clear space to change lanes, then the other driver probably hasn't even engaged his turn signal yet anyway.

3.  What if I'm turning into a driveway or onto a side street just a short way up the road?  I'd rather change lanes early when I know it's clear than try and barge my way over into accelerating traffic after the light.  Frankly, I find it more annoying and consider it more incompetent when someone is in the left lane at a stoplight even though he's intending to turn right just after the light.

I understand why the behavior GaryV describes would annoy the driver of a following vehicle wishing to turn right, but I put it in the category of "them's the breaks."  The annoyance I give in this respect I often receive in return when the situations are reversed.  And I can certainly understand why drivers change lanes to claim a free space at the stop bar, as this reduces delay to clear the light by removing the need to allow a headway to develop as vehicles in front accelerate to speed.  In my experience, this lane change usually occurs well in advance of it being appropriate for the right-turning driver to begin signalling his or her turn.

[1995hoo]

I would extend that to: people who brake for speed bumps, period. It is completely unnecessary to use the brakes, at all, ever, for a speed bump.

Truly competent drivers haul ass between speed bumps to account for lost time, slamming on the brakes right before the speed bump.
But seriously, there's nothing wrong with braking before a speed bump. How stupidly early, before a speed bump, do you have to start slowing down not to touch the brakes? Manual or auto.

There's a road near me with seven speed bumps (yes, you read that correctly) over the course of about 1/2 mile. I can maintain about 20 mph for the whole length of the road without ever touching the brakes once (the speed limit is 25 mph). I would vastly prefer maintaining a slow and steady speed, when the alternative is giving so much gas in between, that you are going unsustainably fast and must brake upon approaching each bump.

There are exceptions, of course. There's four speed bumps at the end of I-190 approaching the Lewiston border crossing into Canada. Obviously, you can't go over those at freeway speeds, but even if you've slowed well in advance for the speed limit drop, it's tough not to get going too fast and have to brake for them. I think they're considerably bigger than the ones I referred to above, too.

I've always thought there's a difference between speed bumps and speed humps. Speed bumps, in my mind, are what you more typically see on private property and in car parks to require you to slow down, and those are typically sharp enough or big enough that you do have to slow down considerably to go over them. Speed humps, to me, are something you see on residential streets whose residents have complained about speeding problems. When properly designed, speed humps allow you to proceed over them at the speed limit such that you won't have to slow down unless you're exceeding the speed limit. (Here's a Street View image of a street I use semi-regularly that has speed humps. The one the blue Toyota is about to traverse can easily be taken at 25 mph, which is the speed limit there.) Of course, lots of people still slow down way too much. I'm not certain that's really incompetence because speed humps can vary so much from street to street such that you don't necessarily know what speed is right if you don't traverse them regularly.

While I find speed humps somewhat annoying, on the whole I figure if I can traverse them at the posted speed limit I don't have a lot of reason to complain. What I dislike is when streets have speed BUMPS that are put there to "deter cut-through traffic"–basically, rather than being a measure to keep speeds down on a residential street, they're a middle finger to people saying "stay out of our neighborhood." I suppose if the street is privately owned and maintained (an HOA street, around here) then they have a right to try to keep thru traffic off, but if it's publicly owned and maintained (part of the "VDOT System," in most of Virginia) then I don't think it's appropriate to be trying to force people to stay off. The Mantua neighborhood just east of Fairfax City was notorious for that sort of thing for a long time–for many years, the speed hump seen in this Street View link was such a sharp bump that you had to slow down to 5 mph or risk damaging the front of your car. That's just damned obnoxious and I never understood why VDOT allowed that. Well, I take that back–Gerry Connolly, the longtime Chairman of the Board of Supervisors and current congressman from the 11th District, lives in Mantua, so it's not hard to guess why it happened.

A) not pulling forward when turning left (it's illegal in some places and I don't expect drivers to know the law for every state);

....

For me, this is one of those things where it varies depending on where I am. In a city, I think it's far more necessary to pull forward when you want to turn left, especially if there are no green arrows or if there's no left-turn lane. In suburban driving, I find it's often a lot easier to see oncoming traffic if you don't pull out into the intersection, mainly because there are so many larger SUVs and trucks nowadays. At the intersection near our neighborhood I almost never pull out to wait because it's easier to see if I hang back, because most of the time there's so much traffic that you're going to wind up turning after it goes red and there are ALWAYS red-light runners, and because there's a reasonably long green arrow there.

Long way of saying, I definitely don't consider not pulling out into the intersection to be incompetence at all, nor do I consider it "annoying driver behavior." I find it more annoying when some turkey in a big SUV coming the other way pulls more than halfway across the intersection from his stop bar trying to stage his left turn. Stay back on your own half of the intersection!

[sprjus4]

What people seem to forget is that, at locations where RTOR is permitted, it's NOT mandatory.

I believe it's been established that, as the law in New Jersey actually reads, turning right on red is technically required in that state.

Maybe it's just me, but if someone easily -can- turn right, and their turn signal is indicating that they will be, that it is inconsiderate to hold up a vehicle behind them.

Agreed. I rarely actually will sit at a red light turning right when it's clear, and it's only if no one is behind me and I need to do something quickly that I'd rather not do while moving, like using my phone to check directions, etc.

But if someone is behind me, I will go if it's visibly clear.

[webny99]

I definitely go for an open lane whenever possible, even if it involves some last-second maneuvering. In fact, the lack of drivers doing this often baffles me.

If there's two open lanes at a red stoplight, I will choose the left lane, in case someone comes up wanting to turn right.

If the left lane is occupied, and the right lane is empty, I'll take the right lane, right turners notwithstanding, unless I can visibly see someone with their right blinker on. Then I'll stay to the left until they go past, and then pull up behind them. Once they turn right, I'll be first in line without having held them up - win-win! 

[TheHighwayMan3561]

People who don't speed up until the end of the ramp. Not only does it slow down people on the freeway, but it means people coming down the ramp behind them can't speed up and then it creates a pinch.

[lstone19]

People who slow down in anticipation of a backup because one occurred there yesterday | last week | some other time in the past and cause the backup they feared would be there.

[allniter89]

Drivers that tailgate me on a 4 lane rd even if I'm doing the speed limit or 8-14mph  above, I take my foot off the gas pedal & coast til they buy a vowel & pass me, I've slowed to 35 in a 70 before they catch on.
I consider 8-14mph over the limit a speed that most cops will let me slide. If I get a good front door I'll follow him & watch for his brake lights.

[kphoger]

Drivers that tailgate me on a 4 lane rd even if I'm doing the speed limit or 8-14mph  above, I take my foot off the gas pedal & coast til they buy a vowel & pass me, I've slowed to 35 in a 70 before they catch on.
I consider 8-14mph over the limit a speed that most cops will let me slide. If I get a good front door I'll follow him & watch for his brake lights.

That's probably the most clear-cut case of incompetence in this thread so far.

[Plutonic Panda]

People who pace me in the lane next to me on a multi-lane highway, when the road is well below capacity.

This is extremely irritating at night in rural areas. I am not sure why, but this happens to me often in New Mexico and Eastern Arizona. I'll be driving(I drive fairly fast) and come up on a car who will adjust their speed after I have passed them and pace me. It is infuriating and often causes to me to drive so fast(to make a statement for this asshole to back off) if I pass a LEO I'm going to jail.

[RobbieL2415]

1) Not going right on red when it's painfully obvious that it's clear.

2) Not using passing zones on two-way streets.  This might be a New England thing, but everyone just tailgates instead of going around when legal.  Going around is much safer.

3) Not keeping up speed on an steep grade.  This one's borderline but I think some of it may have to do with the visual  perception of the road.  Maybe some people can't judge elevation.

4) Not moving to the left or right hand edge of the lane/roadway to make a turn.  My state requires you to get over as far as you can safely.

5) Driving exactly five under the limit.  Whoever these people are, they have mastered the art of annoyance.  I don't think they mean to do it but there's always that one driver that will go precisely 35 in a 40.

6) A true accident.  Either an act of God or an unexpected medical emergency causes a crash.

[Beltway]

Maybe it's just me, but if someone easily -can- turn right, and their turn signal is indicating that they will be, that it is inconsiderate to hold up a vehicle behind them.

But what started this conversation was being annoyed when someone not turning right "blocks" someone else from turning right at a red light.  Roadman was therefore simply pointing out that nobody should feel entitled to turn right at a red light, considering the movement isn't even required when permitted.

That is true, but technically isn't the same true for when a light turns green?  The guy could just sit there for 10 or 20 seconds before moving even though the way is clear.

[1995hoo]

....

2) Not using passing zones on two-way streets.  This might be a New England thing, but everyone just tailgates instead of going around when legal.  Going around is much safer.

....

Assuming you're referring to two-lane roads where you pass over the center line when the broken line is on your side, I feel like that's become a pretty widespread issue on much of the East Coast in general. Part of it, I'm sure, is increasing traffic over the years that often makes it more difficult to pass in general, but I wonder to what extent increased urbanization/suburbanization factors in such that some people simply never learned to drive on two-lane roads and are uncomfortable with passing in the oncoming lane. Depending on where you learn to drive, I'd say it's less a factor of "incompetence" so much as "never had the opportunity to learn the skill."

It's weird, my wife grew up in Ohio with two-lane roads, but she tends not to like it when I pull out to pass.

[kphoger]

Maybe it's just me, but if someone easily -can- turn right, and their turn signal is indicating that they will be, that it is inconsiderate to hold up a vehicle behind them.

But what started this conversation was being annoyed when someone not turning right "blocks" someone else from turning right at a red light.  Roadman was therefore simply pointing out that nobody should feel entitled to turn right at a red light, considering the movement isn't even required when permitted.

That is true, but technically isn't the same true for when a light turns green?  The guy could just sit there for 10 or 20 seconds before moving even though the way is clear.

Wow, how can it be true! that the UVC merely states traffic "may proceed" through a green light.  Not "shall proceed".  Never would have guessed that.

[Plutonic Panda]

What people seem to forget is that, at locations where RTOR is permitted, it's NOT mandatory.

Are there states that specify whether or not it's mandatory? By that I mean are there any states where you could technically be issued a citation for impeding traffic by not turning right on red where permitted?

[kphoger]

What people seem to forget is that, at locations where RTOR is permitted, it's NOT mandatory.

Are there states that specify whether or not it's mandatory? By that I mean are there any states where you could technically be issued a citation for impeding traffic by not turning right on red where permitted?

See below.

The driver of a vehicle or the motorman of a streetcar:

  a. intending to turn to the right or left at an intersection where traffic is controlled by traffic control signals or by a traffic or police officer, shall proceed to make either turn with proper care to avoid accidents and, except as provided in b. below, only upon the "go" signal unless otherwise directed by a traffic or police officer, an official sign or special signal; or

  b. intending to turn right at an intersection where traffic is controlled by a traffic control signal shall, unless an official sign of the State, municipality, or county authority having jurisdiction over the intersection prohibits the same, proceed to make the turn upon a "stop" or "caution" signal with proper care to avoid accidents after coming to a full stop, observing traffic in all directions, yielding to other vehicular traffic traveling in a direction in which the turn will be made, and stopping and remaining stopped for pedestrians crossing the roadway within a marked crosswalk, or at an unmarked crosswalk, into which the driver is turning. Both the approach for and the turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, unless such intersection is otherwise posted.

[RobbieL2415]

What people seem to forget is that, at locations where RTOR is permitted, it's NOT mandatory.

Are there states that specify whether or not it's mandatory? By that I mean are there any states where you could technically be issued a citation for impeding traffic by not turning right on red where permitted?

Can't do it here.  We have no statue for impeding traffic.  Closest thing would be our statute for improperly stopping a vehicle.