Philadelphia

[briantroutman]

I noticed this line item in the description of work:

- Removing the existing bridge that carries U.S. 1 over a closed private access road

I did a quick pan through the satellite imagery of the project area, but I couldn't find a bridge where US 1 crosses over a disused private road.

I did see, however, a fairly narrow and seemingly unused overpass carrying a non-existent road over US 1–just north of the at-grade intersection with Southampton Road. Anyone know anything about this oddity? I'm too busy today to dig into old aerials or topo maps.

[Roadsguy]

I noticed this line item in the description of work:

- Removing the existing bridge that carries U.S. 1 over a closed private access road

I did a quick pan through the satellite imagery of the project area, but I couldn't find a bridge where US 1 crosses over a disused private road.

I did see, however, a fairly narrow and seemingly unused overpass carrying a non-existent road over US 1–just north of the at-grade intersection with Southampton Road. Anyone know anything about this oddity? I'm too busy today to dig into old aerials or topo maps.

The bridge to be removed is this. That's not a water culvert; it was once a road underpass. I don't know if it jogged over to where New Street is now or if it continued straight and the current New Street is totally new alignment, but obviously the road underneath was removed on each side.

[briantroutman]

The bridge to be removed is this. That's not a water culvert; it was once a road underpass. I don't know if it jogged over to where New Street is now or if it continued straight and the current New Street is totally new alignment, but obviously the road underneath was removed on each side.

I did a little quick digging while on a conference call... It appears that underpass was somehow connected with the former Eastern State School and Hospital which was located just west of US 1 on the land currently occupied by the retail development along Horizon Boulevard. The school was closed in 1996 and appears to have been mostly demolished by 2004. The underpass wasn't for a through road but rather an ultra-tight pseudo-trumpet providing access to the school. The trumpet was cut off by 1971, and the underpass seemingly served little purpose after that point.

[seicer]

It wasn't always a pseudo trumpet, too. It was just a right-in, right-out to a side road that was later reconfigured when those buildings were removed on the east side of the highway. That underpass looks exceptionally narrow, too.

[Roadrunner75]

I did see, however, a fairly narrow and seemingly unused overpass carrying a non-existent road over US 1–just north of the at-grade intersection with Southampton Road. Anyone know anything about this oddity? I'm too busy today to dig into old aerials or topo maps.

I believe that bridge once connected the Byberry state psychiatric hospital campus that was located there, on both sides of Route 1.

[qguy]

The bridge to be removed is this. That's not a water culvert; it was once a road underpass. I don't know if it jogged over to where New Street is now or if it continued straight and the current New Street is totally new alignment, but obviously the road underneath was removed on each side.

I did a little quick digging while on a conference call... It appears that underpass was somehow connected with the former Eastern State School and Hospital which was located just west of US 1 on the land currently occupied by the retail development along Horizon Boulevard. The school was closed in 1996 and appears to have been mostly demolished by 2004. The underpass wasn't for a through road but rather an ultra-tight pseudo-trumpet providing access to the school. The trumpet was cut off by 1971, and the underpass seemingly served little purpose after that point.

I had completely forgotten all about that little thing. Until the shopping center with the Target and Home Depot was built, you could drive up to it on a slightly different alignment of New Road, although it had long  been closed off. It's really difficult to see at all now.

Unless my mind is playing tricks on me (which has never been an unlikely scenario), I remember driving through that underpass sometime around 1989 or 1990, before the properties on either side were redeveloped. It was only one narrow lane wide.

[Roadsguy]

The bridge to be removed is this. That's not a water culvert; it was once a road underpass. I don't know if it jogged over to where New Street is now or if it continued straight and the current New Street is totally new alignment, but obviously the road underneath was removed on each side.

I did a little quick digging while on a conference call... It appears that underpass was somehow connected with the former Eastern State School and Hospital which was located just west of US 1 on the land currently occupied by the retail development along Horizon Boulevard. The school was closed in 1996 and appears to have been mostly demolished by 2004. The underpass wasn't for a through road but rather an ultra-tight pseudo-trumpet providing access to the school. The trumpet was cut off by 1971, and the underpass seemingly served little purpose after that point.

I had completely forgotten all about that little thing. Until the shopping center with the Target and Home Depot was built, you could drive up to it on a slightly different alignment of New Road, although it had long  been closed off. It's really difficult to see at all now.

Unless my mind is playing tricks on me (which has never been an unlikely scenario), I remember driving through that underpass sometime around 1989 or 1990, before the properties on either side were redeveloped. It was only one narrow lane wide.

This is what it looked like in 1992, so it definitely wasn't always that tiny trumpet.

[Chris19001]

I did see, however, a fairly narrow and seemingly unused overpass carrying a non-existent road over US 1–just north of the at-grade intersection with Southampton Road. Anyone know anything about this oddity? I'm too busy today to dig into old aerials or topo maps.

I believe that bridge once connected the Byberry state psychiatric hospital campus that was located there, on both sides of Route 1.

Correct.  I was just examining it about 2 weeks ago.  The bridge is not connected to anything in the Benjamin Rush state Park now and in fact has a significant grade difference between it and the park access road.  It may still serve as a potential pedestrian overpass once the senior living community is more fully developed on the west side of US1, and grading can link it on the park side.

[KEVIN_224]

http://www2.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/philadelphia/street-signs-super-bowl-philadelphia-curious-philly-20181029.html?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Philly.com+Facebook+Account&cid=Philly.com+Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1hbKg_U7-uAK9Pqntx2n4FpHoG_E2JXUeSal-UtCXdsQAouX0XUYC8sIM

And I thought PENN DOT or the City Of Philadelphia made the common every day street sign blades? I guess not now! Interesting read.

[ekt8750]

The button copy signs on the lower end of the Schuylkill Expressway are currently getting replaced. Interesting thing about their replacements are that they're the first PennDOT BGSes that I've seen that are of the flat panel, rounded corner variety (ala NJTA, VDOT).

[seicer]

Why the preference over sheet over extruded aluminum panels? Some of the newer sheet panels along I-81 north of Scranton are just cheap - and are wearing out pretty fast. They appear to be thinner or more cheaply constructed than the sheet panels in New York - and both seem to be inferior to the extruded panels.

[ekt8750]

Why the preference over sheet over extruded aluminum panels? Some of the newer sheet panels along I-81 north of Scranton are just cheap - and are wearing out pretty fast. They appear to be thinner or more cheaply constructed than the sheet panels in New York - and both seem to be inferior to the extruded panels.

Well the signs they replaced were also sheet so perhaps there's an engineering reason behind it for this particular area. I dunno.

[Roadsguy]

Yes, still Highway Gothic!

I don't know how I feel about the rounded corners, though. It's just not... PennDOT. (In this case, that's a bad thing. :P)

Otherwise they're great. Any others up yet?

[Ian]

The button copy signs on the lower end of the Schuylkill Expressway are currently getting replaced. Interesting thing about their replacements are that they're the first PennDOT BGSes that I've seen that are of the flat panel, rounded corner variety (ala NJTA, VDOT).

I like the rounded corners, but my only complaint is the exit tab corner radii are the same as the main panel (but then again, PennDOT has a thing for that). While the previous signs were aging and hard to read at night, I'll miss the button copy.

[Roadsguy]

my only complaint is the exit tab corner radii are the same as the main panel (but then again, PennDOT has a thing for that).

I never minded that ([My state]'s signing and striping practices are the best, darnit!), but I do think it looks odd with rounded corners.

[PHLBOS]

Personally, I'm surprised that PennDOT opted for size-in-kind panels even for those University Ave. BGS' when they could've easily opted for a narrower and/or lower-height panel.  The only reason why the previous BGS was sized that way was because it originally had the Civic Center legend underneath it.  Such was greened/masked out when the Philadelphia Civic Center was torn down years ago.

In this case a 1/4 MILE legend was added to where the old Civic Center legend was on its predecessor BGS.

[ekt8750]

Personally, I'm surprised that PennDOT opted for size-in-kind panels even for those University Ave. BGS' when they could've easily opted for a narrower and/or lower-height panel.  The only reason why the previous BGS was sized that way was because it originally had the Civic Center legend underneath it.  Such was greened/masked out when the Philadelphia Civic Center was torn down years ago.

In this case a 1/4 MILE legend was added to where the old Civic Center legend was on its predecessor BGS.

It's a win-win I guess. They get to reuse the sign brackets and they can add more information to the sign. That Exit Only panel was only added to that sign in recent years (probably around the same time they greened out the Civic Center legend).

[PHLBOS]

That Exit Only panel was only added to that sign in recent years (probably around the same time they greened out the Civic Center legend).

I'm not so sure about that.  In my early years of driving along that stretch I do recall seeing those yellow EXIT ONLY legends on the signs even when they still showed the Civic Center legend.

Whereas one could clearly see the maskings that covered the old Civic Center legends even at a distance; the yellow EXIT ONLY messages appears to be clearly part the original panels.

Close-up of the old advance BGS.

If such were indeed retrofitted onto those panels; such were probably done years earlier and in a more neater, cleaner fashion.

Close-up of the BGS at the exit.  Were these panels recently replaced as well?

Now when will PennDOT replace those accompanying eastbound BGS' for PA 291, Passyunk Ave. & that I-76 East pull-through?  In addition to being worn reflectivity-wise, two of those BGS' (the ones for PA 291 & I-76 East) have the TO legend placed at the wrong location with respect to the route shields (were the I-95 shields replaced sometime later & the I-76 shield wasn't?)... especially for that pull-through. 

IMHO the one for PA 291 should read:

LEFT
EXIT 347 A
      TO  SOUTH
291         95
Penrose Ave.
Int'l Airport
\|/            \|/
(one could a WEST banner above the PA 291 shield)

The pull-through, assuming the same control legends are maintained:
EAST   TO   NORTH
  76               95
  Sports Complex
  W. Whitman Br.
\|/                  \|/

or a more MUTCD compliant:
EAST   TO   NORTH
  76               95
  W. Whitman Br.
    Atlantic City
\|/                  \|/

If the above was adopted, a ground-mounted supplemental BGS for the Sports Complex would read:
Sports Complex
USE EXIT 349

[ekt8750]

That Exit Only panel was only added to that sign in recent years (probably around the same time they greened out the Civic Center legend).

I'm not so sure about that.  In my early years of driving along that stretch I do recall seeing those yellow EXIT ONLY legends on the signs even when they still showed the Civic Center legend.

Whereas one could clearly see the maskings that covered the old Civic Center legends even at a distance; the yellow EXIT ONLY messages appears to be clearly part the original panels.

Close-up of the old advance BGS.

If such were indeed retrofitted onto those panels; such were probably done years earlier and in a more neater, cleaner fashion.

Zoom in a bit closer. You'll see the rivets.

Close-up of the BGS at the exit.  Were these panels recently replaced as well?


Now when will PennDOT replace those accompanying eastbound BGS' for PA 291, Passyunk Ave. & that I-76 East pull-through?  In addition to being worn reflectivity-wise, two of those BGS' (the ones for PA 291 & I-76 East) have the TO legend placed at the wrong location with respect to the route shields (were the I-95 shields replaced sometime later & the I-76 shield wasn't?)... especially for that pull-through. 

IMHO the one for PA 291 should read:

LEFT
EXIT 347 A
      TO  SOUTH
291         95
Penrose Ave.
Int'l Airport
\|/            \|/
(one could a WEST banner above the PA 291 shield)

The pull-through, assuming the same control legends are maintained:
EAST   TO   NORTH
  76               95
  Sports Complex
  W. Whitman Br.
\|/                  \|/

or a more MUTCD compliant:
EAST   TO   NORTH
  76               95
  W. Whitman Br.
    Atlantic City
\|/                  \|/

If the above was adopted, a ground-mounted supplemental BGS for the Sports Complex would read:
Sports Complex
USE EXIT 349

Yup. Everything east and westbound along the Vare Av stretch is now replaced. I'll get some pics of the eastbound signs tonight. They're also replacing the signs further up after the University City curve to South St. I hope (but doubt) they replace the couple Clearview signs that were put up during South St bridge project.

[PHLBOS]

That Exit Only panel was only added to that sign in recent years (probably around the same time they greened out the Civic Center legend).

I'm not so sure about that.  In my early years of driving along that stretch I do recall seeing those yellow EXIT ONLY legends on the signs even when they still showed the Civic Center legend.

Whereas one could clearly see the maskings that covered the old Civic Center legends even at a distance; the yellow EXIT ONLY messages appears to be clearly part the original panels.

Close-up of the old advance BGS.

If such were indeed retrofitted onto those panels; such were probably done years earlier and in a more neater, cleaner fashion.

Zoom in a bit closer. You'll see the rivets.

Fair enough; but as I previously stated, that retrofit was done much earlier & in a much neater fashion.  I'm guessing the old BGS at the ramp had a white button-copy-on-green EXIT ONLY message (what else would it have had?) & the 1/4-mile advance sign probably originally had the standard 1/4 MILE legend on it... something that has returned with the replacement BGS.

[Roadsguy]

That Exit Only panel was only added to that sign in recent years (probably around the same time they greened out the Civic Center legend).

I'm not so sure about that.  In my early years of driving along that stretch I do recall seeing those yellow EXIT ONLY legends on the signs even when they still showed the Civic Center legend.

Whereas one could clearly see the maskings that covered the old Civic Center legends even at a distance; the yellow EXIT ONLY messages appears to be clearly part the original panels.

Close-up of the old advance BGS.

If such were indeed retrofitted onto those panels; such were probably done years earlier and in a more neater, cleaner fashion.

Zoom in a bit closer. You'll see the rivets.

Fair enough; but as I previously stated, that retrofit was done much earlier & in a much neater fashion.  I'm guessing the old BGS at the ramp had a white button-copy-on-green EXIT ONLY message (what else would it have had?) & the 1/4-mile advance sign probably originally had the standard 1/4 MILE legend on it... something that has returned with the replacement BGS.

Another thing leaning toward retrofit is the green bottom corners. Even when PennDOT messes up and uses a white border around the EXIT ONLY section, the corners are yellow.

[Gnutella]

Why the preference over sheet over extruded aluminum panels? Some of the newer sheet panels along I-81 north of Scranton are just cheap - and are wearing out pretty fast. They appear to be thinner or more cheaply constructed than the sheet panels in New York - and both seem to be inferior to the extruded panels.

You're not the only one who's noticed that PennDOT does extruded-panel signs much better than increment-panel signs. Their increment-panel signs look cheap and less pattern-accurate, but their extruded-panel signs look solid and more pattern-accurate.

[sbeaver44]

This was posted on the AARoads Facebook page, showing the Schuylkill Expwy at the Vine St Expwy in Philadelphia.  If you zoom in, US 30 East appears to be signed continuing on the Schuylkill past here.  I have never seen anything that matches that, I thought US 30 always either used Girard/Spring Garden or the Vine St Expwy itself.

What was this routing of US 30 then?

Or, am I misunderstanding where this is?  Perhaps 30 is going right and curving under to use the bridge on the left, and the "Schuylkill" signed as Vine St to the left only continues a little bit and then turns to become Vine St?

[ixnay]

Notice in the postcard the landmark (to some, including me) Strawbridge & Clothier billboard (with temperature) welcoming Schuylkill survivors to the City of Brotherly Love.  Also the Schmidt's beer (with clock) billboard atop the tall warehouse.  Just off the photo to the right (atop another warehouse) is the "Welcome to Philadelphia and GIMBELS" sign.  Thank you Sbeaver for bringing back some of my youth (although the first exit signs I remember on the Surekill were dark green button copy so this pic would be before my time).

ixnay

[Alps]

This was posted on the AARoads Facebook page, showing the Schuylkill Expwy at the Vine St Expwy in Philadelphia.  If you zoom in, US 30 East appears to be signed continuing on the Schuylkill past here.  I have never seen anything that matches that, I thought US 30 always either used Girard/Spring Garden or the Vine St Expwy itself.

What was this routing of US 30 then?

Or, am I misunderstanding where this is?  Perhaps 30 is going right and curving under to use the bridge on the left, and the "Schuylkill" signed as Vine St to the left only continues a little bit and then turns to become Vine St?

My best guess is that the thru arrow and the left arrows both refer to Vine St. (since the thru arrow is on the left) and this is just poor sign design.