Minor things that bother you

[Scott5114]

(And for dollar stores, why can't they make their taxed items come out to a dollar after tax instead of before tax?)

Can't be done in the US, because sales tax rate varies tremendously from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

It most certainly could be done, albeit potentially with some difficulty. I suspect that the main reason it's not is due to lobbying, so as to make prices seem lower than they are (as with the $.99 thing).

I think all tax should be included in the prices. 

As someone who owns a business that charges sales tax: trust me, can't be done.

[CtrlAltDel]

(And for dollar stores, why can't they make their taxed items come out to a dollar after tax instead of before tax?)

Can't be done in the US, because sales tax rate varies tremendously from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

It most certainly could be done, albeit potentially with some difficulty. I suspect that the main reason it's not is due to lobbying, so as to make prices seem lower than they are (as with the $.99 thing).

I think all tax should be included in the prices. 

As someone who owns a business that charges sales tax: trust me, can't be done.

Of course it can. Sure it might cause a headache, and perhaps have an effect on profit margins, but given that it's a simple mathematical calculation – and one that already has to be done after a sale – it most certainly can be done beforehand instead. And with certain things, such as gasoline sales, it's already the case.

[Scott5114]

The US has 3,143 counties or county equivalents and 50 states. That means you have the possibility of 3,193 different coefficients of that simple mathematical calculation, all of which could change at any given time. (This is intentionally ignoring municipal sales tax, which adds more possible rates.) Every time they do you have to calculate whether or not you can continue to afford to sell the product at the current price, or not, because the tax now cuts into your profit margin too much. If not, you have to change the pricing of the product, which means printing up new price labels, changing advertising, and so on.

Or you can call up the store and say "Hey, the tax rate changed. Program the register to charge 8.125% instead of 8%."

This gets even worse for an ecommerce business, because at least in Oklahoma, you're required to charge based on where the customer is placing the order, not where the business is located. So I'm supposed to charge unique tax rates any time someone orders from elsewhere in Oklahoma. (I cheese it by just charging everyone Norman sales tax and paying the difference, which amounts to a few cents, out of my pocket if they have a higher tax rate, but I'm a two-person business; a corporation would insist on everything being charged to the penny.) No, I can't adjust the price to cover sales tax, because if I ship out of state I don't charge sales tax at all.

And with certain things, such as gasoline sales, it's already the case.

Gasoline taxes are a flat number of cents rather than a percentage, and are generally done at the federal and state level, not local.

[texaskdog]

well one restaurant in one town that prints its own menus can include prices.   e.g we went to DQ and I wanted to use my $5 bill it was $4.79 yet $5.17 after tax.  why cant the electronic menu say $5.17?

[Scott5114]

Not every business has an electronic menu or a compelling business reason to install one.

[CtrlAltDel]

The US has 3,143 counties or county equivalents and 50 states. That means you have the possibility of 3,193 different coefficients of that simple mathematical calculation, all of which could change at any given time.

This is the case whether the tax is calculated before the sale or after. Which honestly seems to underscore my point that businesses don't want to do the calculations beforehand, not that they can't.

No, I can't adjust the price to cover sales tax, because if I ship out of state I don't charge sales tax at all.

Extra profit of out of state sales! 

[texaskdog]

[ Which honestly seems to underscore my point that businesses don't want to do the calculations beforehand, not that they can't.

if you cant do that math you shouldn't be in business

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Restaurants/businesses that don't post hours on the door, especially showing up in a gray area like 9 PM where you're not sure if they're closed, closing soon (which means I don't want to inconvenience the staff if it's something that can be avoided). I get some places want the flexibility to close earlier or later based on that day's traffic, but I find it frustrating.

^Hell, there are differences in sales tax within cities themselves based on where you are in it. Duluth has a higher sales tax specifically in the Canal Park tourist district than in the rest of the city.

[Scott5114]

This is the case whether the tax is calculated before the sale or after. Which honestly seems to underscore my point that businesses don't want to do the calculations beforehand, not that they can't.

If you think it's so easy, why don't you become a consultant and do it for them, then?

if you cant do that math you shouldn't be in business

There's only 24 hours in a day, my dude. I'd like to spend part of the day actually shipping out orders and not playing footsie with the tax code.

[texaskdog]

This is the case whether the tax is calculated before the sale or after. Which honestly seems to underscore my point that businesses don't want to do the calculations beforehand, not that they can't.

If you think it's so easy, why don't you become a consultant and do it for them, then?

if you cant do that math you shouldn't be in business

There's only 24 hours in a day, my dude. I'd like to spend part of the day actually shipping out orders and not playing footsie with the tax code.

And save time for this forum!

[1995hoo]

(And for dollar stores, why can't they make their taxed items come out to a dollar after tax instead of before tax?)

Can't be done in the US, because sales tax rate varies tremendously from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

It most certainly could be done, albeit potentially with some difficulty. I suspect that the main reason it's not is due to lobbying, so as to make prices seem lower than they are (as with the $.99 thing).

I'm sure it could be done, given that concession stand prices at sports arenas generally display prices inclusive of tax. Of course, traditionally they had an incentive to make prices come out in round amounts (dollar or half-dollar increments) to expedite giving change and moving the line.

[CtrlAltDel]

This is the case whether the tax is calculated before the sale or after. Which honestly seems to underscore my point that businesses don't want to do the calculations beforehand, not that they can't.

If you think it's so easy, why don't you become a consultant and do it for them, then?

Well, for starters, because businesses don't want me to. What I should do is start a lobbying group, and then take all the money and retire.

[Scott5114]

(And for dollar stores, why can't they make their taxed items come out to a dollar after tax instead of before tax?)

Can't be done in the US, because sales tax rate varies tremendously from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

It most certainly could be done, albeit potentially with some difficulty. I suspect that the main reason it's not is due to lobbying, so as to make prices seem lower than they are (as with the $.99 thing).

I'm sure it could be done, given that concession stand prices at sports arenas generally display prices inclusive of tax. Of course, traditionally they had an incentive to make prices come out in round amounts (dollar or half-dollar increments) to expedite giving change and moving the line.

That, and a sports concession stand only has one location, in a known jurisdiction, so it's very easy to do the calculations. What makes it unworkable is when the sales take place across several dozen jurisdictions.

[jeffandnicole]

^^ Along that line, something with a price that ends with a series of 9s, such as $299.99.  Do people really think that it is significantly cheaper than $300?

Absolutely, which is why it's done.  Nearly every business wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work.

(And for dollar stores, why can't they make their taxed items come out to a dollar after tax instead of before tax?)

Can't be done in the US, because sales tax rate varies tremendously from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

One word:  Bars.

It is extremely common for bars to include the tax in the price of the drink.  And excepting of what I just mentioned above, it's very common for the price to be an even dollar amount, with half-dollars being the 2nd most common.    The whole thing with bars and bartending is just a different atmosphere when it comes to money.  Hell, you'll never go to a restaurant where they'll just give you a burger for free, yet if you're a frequent guest at a bar (or a really good tipper), the bartender is actually encouraged to give you a free drink.  Using my home state as an example, it says that you can't sell alcohol below cost, yet it's written in the ABC guidelines that the occasional free drink is acceptable.

[Scott5114]

^^ Along that line, something with a price that ends with a series of 9s, such as $299.99.  Do people really think that it is significantly cheaper than $300?

Absolutely, which is why it's done.  Nearly every business wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work.

(And for dollar stores, why can't they make their taxed items come out to a dollar after tax instead of before tax?)

Can't be done in the US, because sales tax rate varies tremendously from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

One word:  Bars.

It is extremely common for bars to include the tax in the price of the drink.  And excepting of what I just mentioned above, it's very common for the price to be an even dollar amount, with half-dollars being the 2nd most common.    The whole thing with bars and bartending is just a different atmosphere when it comes to money.  Hell, you'll never go to a restaurant where they'll just give you a burger for free, yet if you're a frequent guest at a bar (or a really good tipper), the bartender is actually encouraged to give you a free drink.  Using my home state as an example, it says that you can't sell alcohol below cost, yet it's written in the ABC guidelines that the occasional free drink is acceptable.

That, and a bar only has one location, in a known jurisdiction, so it's very easy to do the calculations. What makes it unworkable is when the sales take place across several dozen jurisdictions.

[1995hoo]

^^ Along that line, something with a price that ends with a series of 9s, such as $299.99.  Do people really think that it is significantly cheaper than $300?

Absolutely, which is why it's done.  Nearly every business wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work.

(And for dollar stores, why can't they make their taxed items come out to a dollar after tax instead of before tax?)

Can't be done in the US, because sales tax rate varies tremendously from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

One word:  Bars.

It is extremely common for bars to include the tax in the price of the drink.  And excepting of what I just mentioned above, it's very common for the price to be an even dollar amount, with half-dollars being the 2nd most common.    The whole thing with bars and bartending is just a different atmosphere when it comes to money.  Hell, you'll never go to a restaurant where they'll just give you a burger for free, yet if you're a frequent guest at a bar (or a really good tipper), the bartender is actually encouraged to give you a free drink.  Using my home state as an example, it says that you can't sell alcohol below cost, yet it's written in the ABC guidelines that the occasional free drink is acceptable.

That, and a bar only has one location, in a known jurisdiction, so it's very easy to do the calculations. What makes it unworkable is when the sales take place across several dozen jurisdictions.

That sounds familiar. Where might I have heard that theory before?

[texaskdog]

I went to a store once that showed  "price + tax equals _______"  if you ever worked at a store dealing with kids who had no comprehension of tax you'd appreciate it.

If I go to Dollar Tree I'd just as soon everything was $1.10 to cover the 8.25 pct tax.  2 items 2.20   3 items 3.30  life would be wonderful

[GaryV]

Gasoline taxes are a flat number of cents rather than a percentage, and are generally done at the federal and state level, not local.

There are states or localities that charge sales tax on gasoline, in addition to the per gallon excise tax.

I seem to recall when I was a kid Indiana charged sales tax, but it was not included in the price that was on the pump.  After pumping $10.00, the final bill came out to $10.40 or something.

Re: concession stands and bars, the prices charged are high enough that they simply pay the tax later, and still make a profit.

[jeffandnicole]

^^ Along that line, something with a price that ends with a series of 9s, such as $299.99.  Do people really think that it is significantly cheaper than $300?

Absolutely, which is why it's done.  Nearly every business wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work.

(And for dollar stores, why can't they make their taxed items come out to a dollar after tax instead of before tax?)

Can't be done in the US, because sales tax rate varies tremendously from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

One word:  Bars.

It is extremely common for bars to include the tax in the price of the drink.  And excepting of what I just mentioned above, it's very common for the price to be an even dollar amount, with half-dollars being the 2nd most common.    The whole thing with bars and bartending is just a different atmosphere when it comes to money.  Hell, you'll never go to a restaurant where they'll just give you a burger for free, yet if you're a frequent guest at a bar (or a really good tipper), the bartender is actually encouraged to give you a free drink.  Using my home state as an example, it says that you can't sell alcohol below cost, yet it's written in the ABC guidelines that the occasional free drink is acceptable.

That, and a bar only has one location, in a known jurisdiction, so it's very easy to do the calculations. What makes it unworkable is when the sales take place across several dozen jurisdictions.

Not necessarily.  Some chains subscribe to this practice as well.

[kphoger]

And with certain things, such as gasoline sales, it's already the case.

I'm sure it could be done, given that concession stand prices at sports arenas generally display prices inclusive of tax.

One word:  Bars.

It is extremely common for bars to include the tax in the price of the drink. 

With gas stations and concession stands, they're only selling a handful of items.  Any time the tax rate changes, it's a relatively small endeavor to calculate the new price of each item.  Note that, at a gas station, only the fuel at the pump is priced with tax included–not all the candy bars and cigarettes and Lorna Doone cookies and frozen burritos and bottles of Yoo-hoo and bags of ice and fountain drinks and antifreeze and beef jerky that the same establishment also sells.

With bars, there are more items being sold, but the number of price points might still be fairly small.  That is, for example, they might have twenty-six kinds of beer, but they're all being sold at just one of three prices.  Or all cocktails are sold for one of only two or three prices per glass, depending on what liquor is going into the shaker–even though the bartender knows how to make thirty different cocktails by memory and can look more up on Google as needed.

But, think about how many different items are sold at Hobby Lobby.  Every time Flygut County passes a sales tax hike, do you want to be the guy who has to re-figure the sticker price of every single item?  And then, when Catpecker County next door passes a similar but different tax hike twelve months later, to do it all over again, because you're in charge of both locations?

[ Which honestly seems to underscore my point that businesses don't want to do the calculations beforehand, not that they can't.

if you cant do that math you shouldn't be in business

The math is that it isn't profitable to waste the necessary man-hours figuring out how to include tax in every item's price tag, when doing so provides your company little to no financial benefit.  If you can't do that math, then you shouldn't be in business.

[J N Winkler]

Whether sales tax is included in the sticker price is a small facet of public finance generally.  I have never heard of a jurisdiction that requires that tax be included in all prices displayed to customers and allows the creation of overlay districts (such as cities, counties, business improvement districts, etc.) that are financed partly or wholly by sales tax increments.

[mgk920]

Also, some states structure their sales taxes differently than others.  Many states require that all of the taxable items in a retail transaction be taxed separately, then everything be added up at the end of the transaction.  Here in Wisconsin, you add up all of the taxable items first, THEN add the 5 or 5.5% (depending on county) that is then remitted to the state.

Mike

[texaskdog]

When you make a post on this forum and are notified someone posted in the meantime, like you're going to go redo your post.

[hotdogPi]

When you make a post on this forum and are notified someone posted in the meantime, like you're going to go redo your post.

It's important. Sometimes the previous person replied with exactly what I was going to say, so I don't post in order to avoid duplication.

[kphoger]

When you make a post on this forum and are notified someone posted in the meantime, like you're going to go redo your post.

It's important. Sometimes the previous person replied with exactly what I was going to say, so I don't post in order to avoid duplication.

Or they're correcting something about the very post you're replying to.