Minor things that bother you

[J N Winkler]

When I was growing up, the school district would occasionally send my parents their version of a customer satisfaction survey.  They always sent back praise, regardless of their actual feelings.  Their reasoning was that to do otherwise would invite retaliation, since any promises of anonymity were not credible.  (Even if the survey is administered by a third party that anonymizes responses before passing them on, the client can usually figure out who sent in a particular set just by the timing.)

[Big John]

Or work satisfaction surveys, as certain items could identify a specific employee quickly.

[jeffandnicole]

I'm sure it's been discussed in this forum and others, but on the topic of customer surveys...

I recently brought our 2021 Tucson into the dealership for a recall.  The letter I got in the mail said that it would only take 20 minutes, yet I ended up having to wait at the dealership for 2.5 hours (who knows how much time was eaten up by their "courtesy inspection," where they tried to sell me on expensive maintenance packages, but I digress).  I didn't mention this at all, or express any dissatisfaction, but then the service tech calls me a day or two later to tell me how I'm going to get a survey, but anything less than a 10 out of 10 is a failure for him, so if we can work anything out before I take the survey...

So now I really have no way of expressing my dissatisfaction that won't get this poor bastard fired, when he's not even the one who decided to send me a letter saying the recall repair would only take 20 minutes.

Don't do the survey.

Instead, locate the service manager's name and email on their website and email or call directly stating your issue, and feel free to state that you aren't doing the survey because you wouldn't rate them a 10. They often are responsive to emails and calls, because you're doing them a favor by not completing a bad survey. They may even provide a discount, free oil change or tire rotation next time you come in.

If they're not responsive, reply to the email and add a dealership corp email address to it. If that doesnt work, fill out the survey and hope there's a comment section to enter why you're dissatisfied. The surveys often get the service department and its management bonuses, so it's not just on the person who worked on your car.

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I wouldn't go back to that dealership either.

Not really a realistic option, since car dealerships aren't in every town. If I said that everything I was dissatisfied with something, i would have eliminated every business within 20 miles of me.  If there's a recall, unless you're willing to travel, there's probably only one or two options.

[abefroman329]

Or work satisfaction surveys, as certain items could identify a specific employee quickly.

Yep, I've worked for two different companies where the "anonymous"  employee satisfaction surveys were only "anonymous"  if the results were good - if they weren't, we got hauled into a conference room so senior management could grill us on why the results were bad (the obvious answer being "because this is how you react when employees dare to say they're unhappy" ).

[thspfc]

I'm sure it's been discussed in this forum and others, but on the topic of customer surveys...

I recently brought our 2021 Tucson into the dealership for a recall.  The letter I got in the mail said that it would only take 20 minutes, yet I ended up having to wait at the dealership for 2.5 hours (who knows how much time was eaten up by their "courtesy inspection," where they tried to sell me on expensive maintenance packages, but I digress).  I didn't mention this at all, or express any dissatisfaction, but then the service tech calls me a day or two later to tell me how I'm going to get a survey, but anything less than a 10 out of 10 is a failure for him, so if we can work anything out before I take the survey...

So now I really have no way of expressing my dissatisfaction that won't get this poor bastard fired, when he's not even the one who decided to send me a letter saying the recall repair would only take 20 minutes.

This is absolutely ridiculous on the part of the dealership. Anything less than 10/10 is a fireable offense? Who in their right mind thinks that getting their car recalled and having to go get it fixed could ever be a 10/10 experience?

And if 10/10 is the norm - on any rating scale - you're just being dishonest with yourself. Even companies such as restaurants or landscapers would be delusional to expect a 10/10 from every customer. So in turn, the dealership's survey is completely useless because if customers have to give a 10 then they're not receiving any real feedback.

If it was me I wouldn't even fill it out. I wouldn't go back to that dealership either.

Relating to that, there's a certain popular convenience store chain in the Midwest whose goal is to "exceed the expectations of every customer, every time."  Huh? If I go there to get a gallon of milk, I expect the place to be clean, milk to be stocked, and the employees to be nice. That's exactly what happens. My expectations were met, not exceeded. Was my visit a failure on their part? Apparently yes.

You forget that part that customer satisfaction surveys are extremely subjective, and what one person's perspective of "9" service may be another person's "7" service. Considering that every company wants to send you a survey for every visit, and you end of ignoring them unless it hits the extremes.... extremely well or extremely bad. Sometimes, these "bad experiences" are completely outside the control of the technician. Since I manage a team that does "mission critical" cloud-based support that works specifically with a specialized market, I see "bad surveys" all the time where the root cause was either a technical issue or software defect at the backend servers and/or the client software, or a feature/functionality that was disabled by the company admistrator. All I can do is see if my team member did their due diligence in the handling of the support case and let my manager know what happened. Heaven help you if a "Karen" fills out a survey. I'm more concerned about trends. Every member of my team gets a bad survey once in a while.

I'm not ignroing that - that's actually kind of my point. Expecting a 10 from every customer is silly because they're subjective and dependent on circumstances.

As for a convenience store survey, what are you expecting as a "10" or "exceed the expectations of every customer"? I'm there to get fuel, a 2fer deal for soda, or a snack. Although it would be nice if the employee smiles or greets you, the fact is that you get all sorts of customers who will chew you out because their debit card has that infamous "insufficient funds" message or they would not allow the sale of a age-restricted product because you forgot your identification.

That comes back to what you said about subjectivity. If I go to a convenience store to get a gallon of milk and everything goes according to plan . . . how do I rate that on a customer satisfaction survey? 10/10 because everything went fine? But I didn't have a 10/10 experience. It wasn't the best 2 minutes of my life or anything. It was just a thing I did because I had to. It was not exciting. So maybe it gets a 5/10? But that undeservedly reflects poorly on the store. Buying a gallon of milk isn't really supposed to be exciting.

Point is, these surveys are nonsense. All of them.

[vdeane]

^ For me, 10/10 is perfect at whatever the function was.  For your convenience store example, it doesn't need to be the best 2 minutes of my life, but it would probably have to be great milk, easy to find, smooth checkout with no significant wait, etc.  For a more typical experience, where everything was good but nothing to write home about, probably in the 7-9 range.  A 4-6 would be more along the lines of "I got the job done fine, but I had to look around for the mile and then wait in line for a while to pay for it".  2-3 would be bad, but not the worst.  Maybe there were difficulties with payment that took a while to resolve, or the staff was rude, etc.  A 1 would be just awful, don't ever go there again - maybe the milk was bad and they didn't offer a refund/exchange, severe cleanliness issues, etc.

[kkt]

I'm sure it's been discussed in this forum and others, but on the topic of customer surveys...

I recently brought our 2021 Tucson into the dealership for a recall.  The letter I got in the mail said that it would only take 20 minutes, yet I ended up having to wait at the dealership for 2.5 hours (who knows how much time was eaten up by their "courtesy inspection," where they tried to sell me on expensive maintenance packages, but I digress).  I didn't mention this at all, or express any dissatisfaction, but then the service tech calls me a day or two later to tell me how I'm going to get a survey, but anything less than a 10 out of 10 is a failure for him, so if we can work anything out before I take the survey...

So now I really have no way of expressing my dissatisfaction that won't get this poor bastard fired, when he's not even the one who decided to send me a letter saying the recall repair would only take 20 minutes.

Decent auto mechanics are not that easy to find.  I bet it would take more than a few less-than-perfect surveys to get them fired.

[roadman65]

Surveys, I don't like. What I really hate the most is that from the amount of people surveyed from demographics they can accurately guess what those not surveyed are thinking. Hence arbitron and Neilson ratings for on air media.


I do not understand it at all, but some PHD from Harvard figured it out years ago that you can take a few people's opinions and be able to get the whole country's opinions on anything.

[Big John]

Surveys, I don't like. What I really hate the most is that from the amount of people surveyed from demographics they can accurately guess what those not surveyed are thinking. Hence arbitron and Neilson ratings for on air media.


I do not understand it at all, but some PHD from Harvard figured it out years ago that you can take a few people's opinions and be able to get the whole country's opinions on anything.

And people are turned away from the legitimate polls since there are a lot more "push polls" which are campaign ads disguised as polls but have extremely leading questions trying to get you to agree with their position.

[roadman65]

Surveys, I don't like. What I really hate the most is that from the amount of people surveyed from demographics they can accurately guess what those not surveyed are thinking. Hence arbitron and Neilson ratings for on air media.


I do not understand it at all, but some PHD from Harvard figured it out years ago that you can take a few people's opinions and be able to get the whole country's opinions on anything.

And people are turned away from the legitimate polls since there are a lot more "push polls" which are campaign ads disguised as polls but have extremely leading questions trying to get you to agree with their position.

Yup. It's how it is now. Plus marketing. As many push polls try to see what stereotype you fall and try to sell you stuff via spam ads according to research from your MO created from those polls.

[roadman65]

Back in the early aughts I worked for a marketing agency. I was told there the nature of the Coke verses Pepsi ads on how the former was not directed at the younger generation but the latter was so.

Because, again, Harvard did research, via demographics, that concluded that Coca Cola was purchased by older folks, and that Pepsi products were consumed by the younger generation.

[abefroman329]

Back in the early aughts I worked for a marketing agency. I was told there the nature of the Coke verses Pepsi ads on how the former was not directed at the younger generation but the latter was so.

Because, again, Harvard did research, via demographics, that concluded that Coca Cola was purchased by older folks, and that Pepsi products were consumed by the younger generation.

It's fascinating, isn't it?  Apparently the MasterCard brand is very popular in the Midwest.  Why?  Who knows.

[abefroman329]

kphoger once mentioned the inconsistency in content warnings on streaming platforms - tobacco use, but no mention of alcohol, for example.

Well, I just started watching Jury Duty on Amazon, and one of the preshow warnings was "product placement."

And that is a warning that I don't mind at all.

[GaryV]

Apparently the MasterCard brand is very popular in the Midwest.  Why?  Who knows.

The Meijer store credit card is from MasterCard. That could bump it a couple points.

[kphoger]

Re:  surveys

At my work, anything below a 9 counts against us.  But here's the thing:  we are a contractor company, and our technicians are contractors for us.  The survey score counts against the individual technician and against us as a company.  If someone is frustrated by something about the company we do business for–then, even though they may have thought our technician was top-notch and did everything perfectly, that poor survey counts against him and us.

However, the comments section of the survey does indeed find its way up to the company we work for, and people really do read the comments.

I shouldn't be surprised if a car mechanic survey is similar.  Some car mechanics work as contractors, and others as hourly employees, but it could very well be that the survey score targets the mechanic specifically.  And really, you probably have little to no idea how well your tech did his or her job.  Which sucks, come survey time.

[J N Winkler]

Regarding surveys, I would say that--in addition to their other shortcomings--they just don't work well in low-trust environments.  When I think about situations where they can produce genuine process improvements, I picture the following:

*  Employees trusting that they will be given a chance to improve (i.e., management is not just looking for excuses to fire them)

*  Customers trusting that they are not setting the stage for retaliation--targeting either themselves or other parties within the firm--if they give a honest opinion

As for the distinction between the sufficient and the superlative, which is what the example of 10/10 or not for a gallon of milk is about, I long ago made the decision that I will try to rate at the top for service that is completely adequate, even if I am aware of opportunities to go above and beyond.  There are at least three reasons for this.

*  As a customer, I don't necessarily know what the top of the scale looks like.

*  I have a personal ethical commitment to employee autonomy, and part of that is not interfering with the discretion to provide a particular level of service as long as it meets my requirements.

*  Failure to rate at the top for service that is adequate in all respects is typically seen negatively as reflective of a determination to find fault.  In fact, it is a good way to make enemies.

[CoreySamson]

^ For me, 10/10 is perfect at whatever the function was.  For your convenience store example, it doesn't need to be the best 2 minutes of my life, but it would probably have to be great milk, easy to find, smooth checkout with no significant wait, etc.  For a more typical experience, where everything was good but nothing to write home about, probably in the 7-9 range.  A 4-6 would be more along the lines of "I got the job done fine, but I had to look around for the mile and then wait in line for a while to pay for it".  2-3 would be bad, but not the worst.  Maybe there were difficulties with payment that took a while to resolve, or the staff was rude, etc.  A 1 would be just awful, don't ever go there again - maybe the milk was bad and they didn't offer a refund/exchange, severe cleanliness issues, etc.

^ This! I was about to write a similar soliloquy, but rechecked the conversation and found that you summed up my points entirely. One thing I would like to add is that I don't expect the function to get a 10/10 every single time. I'm only expecting around a 7-8/10 most often. And not only do I not expect a 10/10 every time, but I also think that it is unreasonable to assume that employees have to work at a 10/10 level in order to keep their job (sadly, that's how the world seems to work now). If I was someone's boss, I would just want them to keep their service in the 6-9 range.


Something else that bothers me about the x/10 system: terms such as 11/10, 150/10, or literally any number bigger than 10/10 in internet comments, blogs, Youtube thumbnails, etc. 10/10 is the pinnacle of the rating scale. It's a scale that shouldn't need to be broken. If you need a bigger number to communicate that you love it a lot, then adjust the scale with it! Also along these lines are the "500 IQ" or "big brain" memes and comments.  They just drive me batty, especially when it refers to just a creative kill in Among Us.

[kphoger]

^ For me, 10/10 is perfect at whatever the function was.  For your convenience store example, it doesn't need to be the best 2 minutes of my life, but it would probably have to be great milk, easy to find, smooth checkout with no significant wait, etc.  For a more typical experience, where everything was good but nothing to write home about, probably in the 7-9 range.  A 4-6 would be more along the lines of "I got the job done fine, but I had to look around for the mile and then wait in line for a while to pay for it".  2-3 would be bad, but not the worst.  Maybe there were difficulties with payment that took a while to resolve, or the staff was rude, etc.  A 1 would be just awful, don't ever go there again - maybe the milk was bad and they didn't offer a refund/exchange, severe cleanliness issues, etc.

One thing I would like to add is that I don't expect the function to get a 10/10 every single time. I'm only expecting around a 7-8/10 most often. And not only do I not expect a 10/10 every time, but I also think that it is unreasonable to assume that employees have to work at a 10/10 level in order to keep their job (sadly, that's how the world seems to work now). If I was someone's boss, I would just want them to keep their service in the 6-9 range.

In an ideal world, maybe.  But if you score someone appropriately based on that thinking, then you may very well be damaging that person's job.

In my work environment, a score of 9—10 is considered "promoter" and once such survey counts as a +1 toward the technician's overall score.  A score of 7—8 counts is considered "passive" and counts as a 0 toward his overall score.  And a score of 0—6 counts as "detractor" and counts as a -1 toward his overall score.  Therefore, if a tech received an 8 on every single survey he received during a month, then his overall score would be -100%.  If he received an even split of 7s, 8s, and 9s, then his overall score would be +33.3%.  If he only receives five surveys during a given month, then a single 8 would knock his score down from 100% to 80%, or a single 7 would knock it down to 60%.

Personally, I prefer surveys with only 4 options:
1 – poor
2 – worse than average
3 – better than average
4 – excellent

[kphoger]

Lawn trimmer cord.

[Scott5114]

I generally don't respond to rating surveys at all. Ensuring good employee performance is management's job, not mine. The company pays them to do that, not me.

Customers are usually pretty bad at articulating what would actually fix problems, so relying on customer surveys does nothing but prime management to spend all their time putting out fires and treating symptoms rather than root causes. After all, a customer doesn't know that the real reason they're pissed off is because of glitchy software or some badly-written company policy, they just know they didn't get what they want and they're mad about it. That means if managers want to learn what their customers are thinking, the best way to do that is to spend a day behind a register instead of their desk every now and then.

[jeffandnicole]

kphoger once mentioned the inconsistency in content warnings on streaming platforms - tobacco use, but no mention of alcohol, for example.

Well, I just started watching Jury Duty on Amazon, and one of the preshow warnings was "product placement."

And that is a warning that I don't mind at all.

Warnings are to guide someone as to concerns regarding the movie.  If there's violence, or profanity, in theory someone may say "oh, I don't want to watch this".

Would someone see a warning regarding product placement, and decide that they shouldn't watch the movie?   If that's far fetched, then there's no reason for the warning.

[Scott5114]

I probably wouldn't watch a movie with product placement in it if I knew that ahead of time. (Given that can mean anything from a barely-noticeable "all of the cars in the show happen to be Fords" all the way up to "this entire story is an infomercial for Google".)

[GaryV]

When I fill out surveys, I interpret 10/10 to mean, "This was the best ever, or equivalent to the best ever, that I have ever experienced.

When 10/10 means adequate or acceptable, there are no ratings left for exceptional service beyond what is normally experienced.

And thus the downfall in interpreting surveys - how do they know what my 10 is vs someone else's 10?

[Dirt Roads]

Lawn trimmer cord.

Ouch.  You don't how many times I've simply replaced a trimmer head with the "line tie" versions just to be free of the "theory of quantum entanglement".  Nowadays they sell the "line ties" as "precut".  I would much rather spend 1 minute replacing a "line tie" for every 10 minutes of trimming, than rather spend 15 minutes refeeding the entire spool just to get 40 minutes of "carefree" trimming.  The math just doesn't work out.

For the record, I had used the same bump-free trimmer spool for the past 5 years.  The battery-powered motorhead died in the Fall over a year ago, so I replaced it like-and-kind and kept using the old trimmer spool.  Until it died about 6 weeks ago.  Sure enough, the new trimmer spool (which looks very much like the old one) is a real pain to reload.  Fortunately, my study of "quantum entanglement" was only about 10 minutes.  When it gets to 15 minutes, I'll go dig out and old "line tie" version.  Indeed, I have the same issue with fishing line (except in that case, I just can't bring myself to spend money on decent fishing gear).

[vdeane]

I wonder if this "average is 10" trend might explain why it seems like I have to go into higher ratings to get decent hotels these days.  It used to be that anything over 6/10 was acceptable for me, now that's 8/10.  I even read a 10/10 review on one where the person mentioned experiencing issue and I was like "then why did you give them a 10?".

Or I suppose my standards could be going up as I get older.