NY - I-90 in Albany and the Berkshire Spur

[shadyjay]

I'll always give the NY Thurway credit for using Boston as a control city for I-87 South as a way to trick Boston bound traffic into staying on the Thurway:



If you didn't know that I-90 itself terminated in Boston, you would probably just skip free I-90 and follow the signs.

Another "trick".... the Mass Pike shield on the SB Thruway.

[Strider]

I still think that I-90 should follow the Thruway and onto the Berkshire Spur.

[cl94]

I still think that I-90 should follow the Thruway and onto the Berkshire Spur.

I-90 being where it is in the first place dates back to when Free 90 was supposed to run north of the toll roads until east of Mass Pike Exit 2. NYSTA cried foul and we got what exists now, along with an incomplete Taconic State Parkway that still has a stub ending.

Part of the original intent of the Interstate Highway System was to avoid toll roads whenever possible. I-87 wasn't supposed spend as much time on the Thruway as it currently does. Various plans had it going up I-684 or the cancelled I-487. When stuff isn't completed, designations usually stay as they are, hence why we have the I-95 mess in PA and NJ and a few other things.

[Alps]

I still think that I-90 should follow the Thruway and onto the Berkshire Spur.

I-90 being where it is in the first place dates back to when Free 90 was supposed to run north of the toll roads until east of Mass Pike Exit 2. NYSTA cried foul and we got what exists now, along with an incomplete Taconic State Parkway that still has a stub ending.

Not like it used to be.

[roadman65]

I'll always give the NY Thurway credit for using Boston as a control city for I-87 South as a way to trick Boston bound traffic into staying on the Thurway:



If you didn't know that I-90 itself terminated in Boston, you would probably just skip free I-90 and follow the signs.

Another "trick".... the Mass Pike shield on the SB Thruway.

I like the fact that at the same interchange coming SB on I-87 motorists are directed to Boston via the free I-90 EB through Albany unlike here.

[hbelkins]

Possibly...but in my experience, a large number of through trucks will deliberately stay on the Thruway and follow the Spur and vice versa, as the two toll plazas plus the descent/hill climb in the river valley will all slow them down.

As would I, if I was driving straight through and had no need to stop in Albany.

[spooky]

I use free I-90 out of familiarity, due to the number of times I used it to connect to I-787 en route to Troy. A recent trip to Niagara Falls involved free I-90 because we wanted to find a place to stop for dinner.

[roadman]

Possibly...but in my experience, a large number of through trucks will deliberately stay on the Thruway and follow the Spur and vice versa, as the two toll plazas plus the descent/hill climb in the river valley will all slow them down.

Not to mention the 'hairpin turn" ramp from free 90 eastbound onto the Berkshire Extension eastbound.  I normally take free 90 through Albany when I'm on that section of the Thruway, but even in a passenger car, that ramp still gives me pause when I use it.

[vdeane]

No worse than any other loop ramp onto the Thruway, but I have to wonder why that interchange was oriented that way.  I'd flip it.

[The Nature Boy]

I would usually take free I-90 if I'm driving to Boston. Most of the time I'm coming from the Midwest and had already driven the Thruway from Pennsylvania. Saves me a dollar and change and gives me the satisfaction of knowing that I didn't give the NY Thruway authority a cent more than I needed to.

[cl94]

No worse than any other loop ramp onto the Thruway, but I have to wonder why that interchange was oriented that way.  I'd flip it.

Dates to construction of the Berkshire Spur, when it was just an exit for US 9. Unless there's a heavy movement or geographical feature to justify otherwise, the loop is always an entrance ramp, both in New York and the rest of the northeast. I can only think of a handful of places where the loop is an exit ramp and everything is how it is because of expected traffic patterns in the 1950s. It's not like other toll authorities don't do similar things (Valley Forge, anyone?).

[shadyjay]

I wonder, if/when the time comes to replace the interchange, would a "flyover" ramp be built to carry 90EB->BS/90EB traffic, will the I-90 routing become the "preferred" alignment in a reconstruction, or will the status-quo be maintained?  If the latter, I wonder if I-90 would be signed to the entire Berkshire Spur.  I think the latter makes sense, especially if a widening of the mainline from the Berkshire Spur up to Exit 23 takes place.  I'd then renumber I-90 through Albany as I-990 and renumber existing I-990 to something else.

[Beeper1]

The interchange was recently rebuilt to replace the old overpass carrying the ramps over the BS mainline.  Other than a slight easing of the curve radii, nothing changed.

[cl94]

I wonder, if/when the time comes to replace the interchange, would a "flyover" ramp be built to carry 90EB->BS/90EB traffic, will the I-90 routing become the "preferred" alignment in a reconstruction, or will the status-quo be maintained?  If the latter, I wonder if I-90 would be signed to the entire Berkshire Spur.  I think the latter makes sense, especially if a widening of the mainline from the Berkshire Spur up to Exit 23 takes place.  I'd then renumber I-90 through Albany as I-990 and renumber existing I-990 to something else.

Nothing else to call it while maintaining Interstate funding and NYSDOT won't use an odd first digit in that situation. No way in heck.

The bridge was replaced relatively recently, so the current configuration will probably last a while. There isn't enough traffic to make the loop ramp have any trouble carrying traffic even though it is the preferred movement through that interchange. Actually, there really isn't enough traffic on any part of that road to warrant doing anything other than maintaining what currently exists. Should they think about adding a flyover? Probably, but there just isn't the need.

[roadman]

No worse than any other loop ramp onto the Thruway

Point taken.  However, given that this ramp is effectively an Interstate to Interstate connection, I'm a bit surprised that nothing has ever been done to flatten it out or re-orient it.

[roadman]

Anybody happen to know what the truck rollover rate/frequency for the I-90 E to BS E loop ramp is?  If it's fairly high, that might give NYSTA a legitimate rationale for rebuilding it.

[vdeane]

No worse than any other loop ramp onto the Thruway, but I have to wonder why that interchange was oriented that way.  I'd flip it.

Dates to construction of the Berkshire Spur, when it was just an exit for US 9. Unless there's a heavy movement or geographical feature to justify otherwise, the loop is always an entrance ramp, both in New York and the rest of the northeast. I can only think of a handful of places where the loop is an exit ramp and everything is how it is because of expected traffic patterns in the 1950s. It's not like other toll authorities don't do similar things (Valley Forge, anyone?).

Never really noticed.  Of course, until last year or so almost all my Thruway travels were on the Rochester-Syracuse corridor from 36-45, and that area has a 50/50 split between the two types (and until I went to college, most Thruway trips for me were 44-45, which has both interchanges flipped!).

[cl94]

No worse than any other loop ramp onto the Thruway, but I have to wonder why that interchange was oriented that way.  I'd flip it.

Dates to construction of the Berkshire Spur, when it was just an exit for US 9. Unless there's a heavy movement or geographical feature to justify otherwise, the loop is always an entrance ramp, both in New York and the rest of the northeast. I can only think of a handful of places where the loop is an exit ramp and everything is how it is because of expected traffic patterns in the 1950s. It's not like other toll authorities don't do similar things (Valley Forge, anyone?).

Never really noticed.  Of course, until last year or so almost all my Thruway travels were on the Rochester-Syracuse corridor from 36-45, and that area has a 50/50 split between the two types (and until I went to college, most Thruway trips for me were 44-45, which has both interchanges flipped!).

I may have double counted one or two, but I counted 35-13 in favor of loop entrance, including the two trumpets in free sections. Of those exceptions, three (25, 44, 45) have an extremely heavy entrance movement from a divided highway or greater that could not be adequately served by a loop ramp. B2 falls in the same category as B1, but I don't know why it got the loop exit variant (date of construction?). 49 and 56 are in the middle of the Buffalo suburbs (and were in the 'burbs when the Thruway was constructed), necessitating an orientation favoring traffic to Buffalo. 17 and 18 were reversed to handle tourist traffic from New York going to the Catskills, even though 17 should have a flyover given the heavy north to east movement. 39 confuses me, but 36 was reversed due to the presence of a cross street, even though movements are likely relatively equal.

That being said, the Rochester-Syracuse and Newburgh-Albany stretches contain just about every reversed trumpet.

[amroad17]

Exit 36 used to be on the south side of the Thruway (opposite of where the trumpet is presently located) and also had movements to Seventh North Street (immediately south of the old trumpet).  Exit 39 was moved one mile west around 20-25 years ago.  The interchange used to be on the south side of the Thruway just west of where I-690 crosses.  Looking at current aerial maps and Historic Aerials, you can see the differences.  The old Exit 39 interchange can still be seen in current aerials.  I believe the interchange was moved to where it is now to avoid having to stop at a traffic light, which you had to do in the old configuration.  IMHO, this move was a wise decision.

I am really not certain about this, but is the reason that the Berkshire section of the Thruway between I-87 and I-90 not numbered an I-hwy because of how narrow the Castleton bridge is?  What I mean is that the bridge does not meet the guidelines set for as far as having wide enough shoulders on it?  The only reason I am asking is because I believe I read this somewhere.

[hbelkins]

Went back through my pictures. It looks as if the Thruway wants to be considered the through east-west route.



And the bridge also doesn't have much of a median. They were working on it when I crossed it and took this picture.

[cl94]

They'd have to do a bit of work before even grandfathering that stretch in (like installing a median barrier), because over a mile is substandard to the point where it's barely a divided highway. A flush median with a few plastic pylons does not make an instant divided highway. Even then, the feds would probably want a major bridge upgrade because they no longer grandfather stuff in the way they used to.

[Brandon]

They'd have to do a bit of work before even grandfathering that stretch in (like installing a median barrier), because over a mile is substandard to the point where it's barely a divided highway. A flush median with a few plastic pylons does not make an instant divided highway. Even then, the feds would probably want a major bridge upgrade because they no longer grandfather stuff in the way they used to.

Pull an Oklahoma and sign it anyway. 

[mtantillo]

I'll always give the NY Thurway credit for using Boston as a control city for I-87 South as a way to trick Boston bound traffic into staying on the Thurway:



If you didn't know that I-90 itself terminated in Boston, you would probably just skip free I-90 and follow the signs.

Another "trick".... the Mass Pike shield on the SB Thruway.

I like the fact that at the same interchange coming SB on I-87 motorists are directed to Boston via the free I-90 EB through Albany unlike here.

Ah, but SB I-87 is NYSDOT, and they route traffic via their roads (the logical reason is because Exit 24 is so congested that they probably don't want to route any more traffic through it than they have to). EB I-90 is NYSTA, and they want people to stay on the Thruway and pay more in tolls.

Also, the "tricks" used to keep people on the Thruway are really no different than used in other cities with a 3-di bypass and the 2-di going through town. For example, approaching Richmond on I-95 south, the signs say "95 south, Richmond" and "295 south, Rocky Mount NC" (the NC to distinguish from Rocky Mount, VA). If you didn't know that Rocky Mount was the next control point on I-95, you might just stay on I-95 through Richmond. In fact...that is actually 100% intentional. Those signs used to say "Rocky Mount NC - Miami FL". But local businesses complained that as a result of directing Florida bound traffic onto I-295, people weren't stopping for gas/food as much within Richmond. So they forced VDOT to cover "Miami" and it was eventually replaced with "Hopewell" and/or "RIC Int'l Airport". Because the control point is some place most people have never heard of, at least in the SB direction, a significant chunk of thru traffic stays on I-95.

[NJRoadfan]

But local businesses complained that as a result of directing Florida bound traffic onto I-295, people weren't stopping for gas/food as much within Richmond. So they forced VDOT to cover "Miami" and it was eventually replaced with "Hopewell" and/or "RIC Int'l Airport". Because the control point is some place most people have never heard of, at least in the SB direction, a significant chunk of thru traffic stays on I-95.

They still have that nifty diagram showing I-295 as a bypass of Richmond. Giving the lower speed limit of I-95 through Richmond, taking the bypass is worth it, even if you plan on taking I-85. Its easy enough to cut back over at VA-10.

[machias]

I'll always give the NY Thurway credit for using Boston as a control city for I-87 South as a way to trick Boston bound traffic into staying on the Thurway:



If you didn't know that I-90 itself terminated in Boston, you would probably just skip free I-90 and follow the signs.

Another "trick".... the Mass Pike shield on the SB Thruway.

I like the fact that at the same interchange coming SB on I-87 motorists are directed to Boston via the free I-90 EB through Albany unlike here.

Ah, but SB I-87 is NYSDOT, and they route traffic via their roads (the logical reason is because Exit 24 is so congested that they probably don't want to route any more traffic through it than they have to). EB I-90 is NYSTA, and they want people to stay on the Thruway and pay more in tolls.

Actually, if you follow that sign toward Boston and stay on I-87 SOUTH, as you pass by the Exit 24 toll booths to the north of the freeway, you'll see overhead NYSDOT signs that say "I-90 EAST Albany / Boston".  I have always wondered if drivers not familiar with the area have some sort of mini freakout when they see that.