TX: Ports to Plains corridor study

[Bobby5280]

Welcome to the forum. Participants here have debated the notion of I-27 getting extended North thru Downtown Amarillo. I think more of us agree such a thing is not practical.

There is too much distance to cover between the current end of I-27 (at SE 11th Avenue) and the beginning of the US-87 freeway North of downtown. The distance is about 1.75 miles. That's roughly 3 times the distance the elevated freeway covers next to downtown Wichita Falls where I-44 currently ends. Any proposal to build an elevated freeway thru downtown Amarillo would meet a great deal of resistance. Probably even more so given the revitalization efforts that have been going on in downtown Amarillo.

It also seems more logical to route I-27 over the West half of Loop 335 since that's where more of the business and residential growth in the city is taking place.

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe Interstate 27's northern terminus should remain at its present location at Interstate 40. Do the present-day US 87 and US 287 corridors north of Amarillo have high enough traffic volumes to warrant an upgrade to an Interstate Standard Freeway? Perhaps extending Interstate 27 southward should be the priority.

[bwana39]

Maybe Interstate 27's northern terminus should remain at its present location at Interstate 40. Do the present-day US 87 and US 287 corridors north of Amarillo have high enough traffic volumes to warrant an upgrade to an Interstate Standard Freeway? Perhaps extending Interstate 27 southward should be the priority.

The answer is that 287 from DFW is clearly the high traffic feeder. At some point there needs to be a freeway to either Raton, or to Limon.

I personally think that the freeway from Lubbock to I-20 is likely to be completed before it, but because Colorado, Oklahoma, and / or New Mexico lack the funding to pay for it, not because the need is greater.

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe in the interim, each town along the US 87 corridor between Raton, NM and Amarillo, TX should get bypasses (freeway-standard or not). Maybe they should have already had bypasses proposed and constructed by now.

[bwana39]

Maybe in the interim, each town along the US 87 corridor between Raton, NM and Amarillo, TX should get bypasses (freeway-standard or not). Maybe they should have already had bypasses proposed and constructed by now.

My take from a cost perspective is we should be building loops around every small to medium town to freeway or at least 75 mph standard and then have 4-lane divided between them.  I think this is a whole lot more bang for the buck and sooner. Is a freeway a better choice? From a truck driver's perspective sure. That said, what I suggest is better than what is there right now....

[Bobby5280]

Maybe Interstate 27's northern terminus should remain at its present location at Interstate 40. Do the present-day US 87 and US 287 corridors north of Amarillo have high enough traffic volumes to warrant an upgrade to an Interstate Standard Freeway?

I know there is enough traffic (heavy truck traffic in particular) to justify a freeway upgrade to Dumas at the very least. From there the P2P splits in two directions, one going to Raton and the other up into SE Colorado. One or two freeways North of that split are tougher to justify.

Maybe in the interim, each town along the US 87 corridor between Raton, NM and Amarillo, TX should get bypasses (freeway-standard or not). Maybe they should have already had bypasses proposed and constructed by now.

I do like the idea of building freeway bypasses around towns and then doing freeway upgrades between the towns later.

TX DOT applied this kind of treatment to the US-277 upgrade between Wichita Falls and Abilene. The towns of Stamford, Haskell, Munday, Goree and Seymour got new bypasses at or near Interstate quality. The rest is standard 4-lane divided, but can be upgraded to Interstate quality easily now that the town bypasses are (mostly) handled.

Unfortunately I'm very certain people in Clayton, NM and other small towns along the way would not like their towns bypassed. Even in Dumas, where they're dealing with all sorts of problems that come with too many semis pounding down the main street, some residents there are voicing their opposition to plans of a bypass. They worry it's going to kill business. I think Dumas is a big enough town to do just fine with a freeway bypass. Still, people there are letting their worries be known.

I think if a town like Clayton were to get a bypass, maybe it could start out as a Super 2. That would get semis passing thru and not stopping to go around and remove some of the burden off the main street. It might give local businesses some time to relocate close to the new highway. Maybe the government could help those businesses do that.

[DNAguy]

Maybe Interstate 27's northern terminus should remain at its present location at Interstate 40. Do the present-day US 87 and US 287 corridors north of Amarillo have high enough traffic volumes to warrant an upgrade to an Interstate Standard Freeway?

I know there is enough traffic (heavy truck traffic in particular) to justify a freeway upgrade to Dumas at the very least. From there the P2P splits in two directions, one going to Raton and the other up into SE Colorado. One or two freeways North of that split are tougher to justify.

Maybe in the interim, each town along the US 87 corridor between Raton, NM and Amarillo, TX should get bypasses (freeway-standard or not). Maybe they should have already had bypasses proposed and constructed by now.

I do like the idea of building freeway bypasses around towns and then doing freeway upgrades between the towns later.

TX DOT applied this kind of treatment to the US-277 upgrade between Wichita Falls and Abilene. The towns of Stamford, Haskell, Munday, Goree and Seymour got new bypasses at or near Interstate quality. The rest is standard 4-lane divided, but can be upgraded to Interstate quality easily now that the town bypasses are (mostly) handled.

Unfortunately I'm very certain people in Clayton, NM and other small towns along the way would not like their towns bypassed. Even in Dumas, where they're dealing with all sorts of problems that come with too many semis pounding down the main street, some residents there are voicing their opposition to plans of a bypass. They worry it's going to kill business. I think Dumas is a big enough town to do just fine with a freeway bypass. Still, people there are letting their worries be known.

I think if a town like Clayton were to get a bypass, maybe it could start out as a Super 2. That would get semis passing thru and not stopping to go around and remove some of the burden off the main street. It might give local businesses some time to relocate close to the new highway. Maybe the government could help those businesses do that.

Dumas is as Dumas does.

[DJStephens]

Maybe Interstate 27's northern terminus should remain at its present location at Interstate 40. Do the present-day US 87 and US 287 corridors north of Amarillo have high enough traffic volumes to warrant an upgrade to an Interstate Standard Freeway?

I know there is enough traffic (heavy truck traffic in particular) to justify a freeway upgrade to Dumas at the very least. From there the P2P splits in two directions, one going to Raton and the other up into SE Colorado. One or two freeways North of that split are tougher to justify.

Maybe in the interim, each town along the US 87 corridor between Raton, NM and Amarillo, TX should get bypasses (freeway-standard or not). Maybe they should have already had bypasses proposed and constructed by now.

I do like the idea of building freeway bypasses around towns and then doing freeway upgrades between the towns later.


TX DOT applied this kind of treatment to the US-277 upgrade between Wichita Falls and Abilene. The towns of Stamford, Haskell, Munday, Goree and Seymour got new bypasses at or near Interstate quality. The rest is standard 4-lane divided, but can be upgraded to Interstate quality easily now that the town bypasses are (mostly) handled.

Unfortunately I'm very certain people in Clayton, NM and other small towns along the way would not like their towns bypassed. Even in Dumas, where they're dealing with all sorts of problems that come with too many semis pounding down the main street, some residents there are voicing their opposition to plans of a bypass. They worry it's going to kill business. I think Dumas is a big enough town to do just fine with a freeway bypass. Still, people there are letting their worries be known.
I think if a town like Clayton were to get a bypass, maybe it could start out as a Super 2. That would get semis passing thru and not stopping to go around and remove some of the burden off the main street. It might give local businesses some time to relocate close to the new highway. Maybe the government could help those businesses do that.

Am guessing Dumas already has a Wal-Mart.  What has that done to local businesses?  Maybe the town fathers need to look at themselves in a mirror, and say, what did we do when we let Wal-Mart in?   

[abqtraveler]

Maybe Interstate 27's northern terminus should remain at its present location at Interstate 40. Do the present-day US 87 and US 287 corridors north of Amarillo have high enough traffic volumes to warrant an upgrade to an Interstate Standard Freeway?

I know there is enough traffic (heavy truck traffic in particular) to justify a freeway upgrade to Dumas at the very least. From there the P2P splits in two directions, one going to Raton and the other up into SE Colorado. One or two freeways North of that split are tougher to justify.

Maybe in the interim, each town along the US 87 corridor between Raton, NM and Amarillo, TX should get bypasses (freeway-standard or not). Maybe they should have already had bypasses proposed and constructed by now.

I do like the idea of building freeway bypasses around towns and then doing freeway upgrades between the towns later.

TX DOT applied this kind of treatment to the US-277 upgrade between Wichita Falls and Abilene. The towns of Stamford, Haskell, Munday, Goree and Seymour got new bypasses at or near Interstate quality. The rest is standard 4-lane divided, but can be upgraded to Interstate quality easily now that the town bypasses are (mostly) handled.

Unfortunately I'm very certain people in Clayton, NM and other small towns along the way would not like their towns bypassed. Even in Dumas, where they're dealing with all sorts of problems that come with too many semis pounding down the main street, some residents there are voicing their opposition to plans of a bypass. They worry it's going to kill business. I think Dumas is a big enough town to do just fine with a freeway bypass. Still, people there are letting their worries be known.

I think if a town like Clayton were to get a bypass, maybe it could start out as a Super 2. That would get semis passing thru and not stopping to go around and remove some of the burden off the main street. It might give local businesses some time to relocate close to the new highway. Maybe the government could help those businesses do that.

It's also a matter of how close or how far the bypass is from the town being bypassed. The last stretch of I-40 through New Mexico wasn't completed until the mid-1980s due to a fight between NMDOT and the town of San Jon. NMDOT wanted to build I-40 several miles north of San Jon, while San Jon wanted I-40 to pretty much go through town. After years of back-and-forth, NMDOT and San Jon settled on the alignment that was built, which skirts the northern edge of the town. Bypasses, if placed correctly, can be a huge economic benefit to a town.

[Life in Paradise]

Maybe Interstate 27's northern terminus should remain at its present location at Interstate 40. Do the present-day US 87 and US 287 corridors north of Amarillo have high enough traffic volumes to warrant an upgrade to an Interstate Standard Freeway?

I know there is enough traffic (heavy truck traffic in particular) to justify a freeway upgrade to Dumas at the very least. From there the P2P splits in two directions, one going to Raton and the other up into SE Colorado. One or two freeways North of that split are tougher to justify.

Maybe in the interim, each town along the US 87 corridor between Raton, NM and Amarillo, TX should get bypasses (freeway-standard or not). Maybe they should have already had bypasses proposed and constructed by now.

I do like the idea of building freeway bypasses around towns and then doing freeway upgrades between the towns later.

TX DOT applied this kind of treatment to the US-277 upgrade between Wichita Falls and Abilene. The towns of Stamford, Haskell, Munday, Goree and Seymour got new bypasses at or near Interstate quality. The rest is standard 4-lane divided, but can be upgraded to Interstate quality easily now that the town bypasses are (mostly) handled.

Unfortunately I'm very certain people in Clayton, NM and other small towns along the way would not like their towns bypassed. Even in Dumas, where they're dealing with all sorts of problems that come with too many semis pounding down the main street, some residents there are voicing their opposition to plans of a bypass. They worry it's going to kill business. I think Dumas is a big enough town to do just fine with a freeway bypass. Still, people there are letting their worries be known.

I think if a town like Clayton were to get a bypass, maybe it could start out as a Super 2. That would get semis passing thru and not stopping to go around and remove some of the burden off the main street. It might give local businesses some time to relocate close to the new highway. Maybe the government could help those businesses do that.

It's also a matter of how close or how far the bypass is from the town being bypassed. The last stretch of I-40 through New Mexico wasn't completed until the mid-1980s due to a fight between NMDOT and the town of San Jon. NMDOT wanted to build I-40 several miles north of San Jon, while San Jon wanted I-40 to pretty much go through town. After years of back-and-forth, NMDOT and San Jon settled on the alignment that was built, which skirts the northern edge of the town. Bypasses, if placed correctly, can be a huge economic benefit to a town.

So that's why I-40 dips a bit to the south at San Jon.  Didn't know that.

[Bobby5280]

Am guessing Dumas already has a Wal-Mart.  What has that done to local businesses?

There is a Walmart Supercenter on the South side of town. I can't tell if it has hurt any local businesses in Dumas (chances are at least some have closed). On the other hand the Walmart location has caused a number of other new businesses to open near it. There's a couple new chain hotels and restaurants nearby.

It's also a matter of how close or how far the bypass is from the town being bypassed.

In the case of Dumas, it's a no-brainer to build a freeway bypass around the West side of town. Most of Dumas is on the East side of US-287. A new freeway could be built through a lot of fairly open territory near the BNSF rail line. TX DOT could built a new US-287 freeway bypass as close as a half-mile West of the current US-287 surface street.

Dumas would honestly be an easier bypass project to build than ones in other towns farther North. US-87 splits right thru the middle of Dalhart. That town would need a substantial half-loop built around it.

[splashflash]

https://highplainsobserverdumas.com/will-the-community-survive-a-bypass-p12471-1.htm

An article from 2015 about a bypass, but at the same time an interstate was not believed to enlikelynto be built within 30 years.

Some bullet points, among others, about the project.
-The most desirable route would start just south of Dumas and travel to the end of the overpass, and continue north to 287 just outside of the city.
- I-27 is not a project, it is only a vision initiated by the mayor of Lubbock, and TxDOT feels if it becomes a project, and it would take at least 30 years before it happens.
- Dalhart will not get our money.
- TxDOT officials in Austin have recommended that we initiate our own Transportation Plan. This plan would indicate our desires and needs that they would utilize in any future discussions or plans for a bypass, or for preparing in the event an interstate is developed in the next few decades.

[bwana39]

https://highplainsobserverdumas.com/will-the-community-survive-a-bypass-p12471-1.htm

An article from 2015 about a bypass, but at the same time an interstate was not believed to enlikelynto be built within 30 years.

Some bullet points, among others, about the project.
-The most desirable route would start just south of Dumas and travel to the end of the overpass, and continue north to 287 just outside of the city.
- I-27 is not a project, it is only a vision initiated by the mayor of Lubbock, and TxDOT feels if it becomes a project, and it would take at least 30 years before it happens.
- Dalhart will not get our money.
- TxDOT officials in Austin have recommended that we initiate our own Transportation Plan. This plan would indicate our desires and needs that they would utilize in any future discussions or plans for a bypass, or for preparing in the event an interstate is developed in the next few decades.

While this is nearly a decade old, it succinctly says what I have been saying seemingly forever. Local politicians and interest groups tout their vision of what they dream a road should be. It may not be on the radar at TxDOT at all. Regional politicians may even give it lip service or even fund "studies". Studies are a neat thing. You take a fairly routine regional traffic study and put a title on it (Port to Plains) and suddenly the local pols are emboldened, people of online BBS are talking about it. IT IS GONNA HAPPEN!; but is it? 

The best plan virtually is loops around most every town, grade separation at most significant roads and railroad tracks, and divided highway in between. Why doesn't it happen this way?  Generally in a small town, one of three constituencies run things.
1) Local (small) business owners.
2) Commercial Property Developers
3) Average residents.

The local small business owners will fight a loop / bypass at all costs. The traffic count at their driveways will dwindle to virtually nil. This is particularly apt for restaurants, convenience stores / gas stations, and hotels or motels.

The commercial property developers will be all for a loop / bypass. Each intersection will suddenly have newly minted commercial property. The ones who are especially adept will buy up or have binding offers on almost  all the properties in the projected R.O.W.

The average residents will MOSTLY support a loop/bypass to get the 18-wheeler traffic out of the CBD. On the other hand, a loop/bypass will accelerate the demise of the town as they have historically known it. You can never tell. That said, there are fewer and fewer of these types of local control scenarios anyway.

Local business people control most of the under 5K towns. They want to retain the access to the locally owned businesses. Just like the I-49 inner city connection in Shreveport as the groups in power shift, so do the priorities.  TxDOT generally reacts to the shifting priorities by doing little or nothing. So, even if the tide turns and the pro-bypass faction gains control for a cycle or two, in the glacially slow workings of TxDOT there still is not time to change the plan, before the local priorities shift again.

So is I-27 gonna expand in the next 50 years? Good question. It isn't yet.

[Bobby5280]

The average residents will MOSTLY support a loop/bypass to get the 18-wheeler traffic out of the CBD. On the other hand, a loop/bypass will accelerate the demise of the town as they have historically known it. You can never tell. That said, there are fewer and fewer of these types of local control scenarios anyway.

None of these small towns in the High Plains is adding population as it is. That's without any freeway bypasses accelerating the process. It takes a lot of key people (cops, teachers, fire fighters, plumbers, etc) and a healthy tax base for a town to function properly. That doesn't happen without a strong percentage of working age, tax-paying adults. Too many small towns across the Great Plains just don't have that. They see their young people grow up and then GTFO if they have the means to do so. Older people tend to enjoy small town life, but even they can be forced to move to bigger towns or cities if their own town no longer has important services. A small town with no police department and no medical clinic isn't going to be a safe place for an eldery person to live.

Dumas is a big enough town (over 10,000 in population) that it's unlikely it could ever turn into a ghost town within the next 50 years, barring some kind of natural, economic or military disaster. OTOH, Dumas is no longer growing. The town lost about 200 people from the 2010 to 2020 census.

A town like Clayton, NM (home to less than 3000 people) is more exposed to demographic decline. A highway agency can draw up plans and wait 10-20 years for the town to wither enough. Then there won't be as much opposition to block a highway project. A town that is shrinking, seeing all its young people leave, might actually welcome something like an Interstate to help get them back on the map and (hopefully) fuel some economic development.

Clayton is just an example. I don't know who all the major employers are there. But the main businesses I see operating there are chain restaurants and convenience stores. There's other stuff that looks boarded-up and closed for good. It's not a big deal for these chain stores to relocate to a new bypass. Love's can certainly do it. They've re-built that Clayton location at least once already and the daytime traffic is pretty bad there now. If Clayton had a new freeway bypass Love's could build a nicer location with better parking capacity and easier in/out access.

[bwana39]

The average residents will MOSTLY support a loop/bypass to get the 18-wheeler traffic out of the CBD. On the other hand, a loop/bypass will accelerate the demise of the town as they have historically known it. You can never tell. That said, there are fewer and fewer of these types of local control scenarios anyway.

None of these small towns in the High Plains is adding population as it is. That's without any freeway bypasses accelerating the process. It takes a lot of key people (cops, teachers, fire fighters, plumbers, etc) and a healthy tax base for a town to function properly. That doesn't happen without a strong percentage of working age, tax-paying adults. Too many small towns across the Great Plains just don't have that. They see their young people grow up and then GTFO if they have the means to do so. Older people tend to enjoy small town life, but even they can be forced to move to bigger towns or cities if their own town no longer has important services. A small town with no police department and no medical clinic isn't going to be a safe place for an eldery person to live.

Dumas is a big enough town (over 10,000 in population) that it's unlikely it could ever turn into a ghost town within the next 50 years, barring some kind of natural, economic or military disaster. OTOH, Dumas is no longer growing. The town lost about 200 people from the 2010 to 2020 census.

A town like Clayton, NM (home to less than 3000 people) is more exposed to demographic decline. A highway agency can draw up plans and wait 10-20 years for the town to wither enough. Then there won't be as much opposition to block a highway project. A town that is shrinking, seeing all its young people leave, might actually welcome something like an Interstate to help get them back on the map and (hopefully) fuel some economic development.

Clayton is just an example. I don't know who all the major employers are there. But the main businesses I see operating there are chain restaurants and convenience stores. There's other stuff that looks boarded-up and closed for good. It's not a big deal for these chain stores to relocate to a new bypass. Love's can certainly do it. They've re-built that Clayton location at least once already and the daytime traffic is pretty bad there now. If Clayton had a new freeway bypass Love's could build a nicer location with better parking capacity and easier in/out access.

Look at Clarksville TX. about 35 years ago, they had a bond vote for a local reservoir. It passed.It would have provided water for Clarksville and Red River County for decades (Probably at least 50 years including projected growth.)  The aginners voted two of the commissioners out of office (one already was opposed). They never sold the bonds. They never built the lake. Clarksville is a much smaller town now than in 1985. I am not going to say if this is good or bad. What I will say is one segment of the population wanted to circumvent change and it worked.  Clarksville 2023 is closer to Clarksville 1953 than even 1983. Ironically, both US-82 and SH-37 have bypassed town. There is still almost zero development out there nearly 2 decades in.   My point is that some folks do not want any change whatsoever.

[DJStephens]

The average residents will MOSTLY support a loop/bypass to get the 18-wheeler traffic out of the CBD. On the other hand, a loop/bypass will accelerate the demise of the town as they have historically known it. You can never tell. That said, there are fewer and fewer of these types of local control scenarios anyway.

None of these small towns in the High Plains is adding population as it is. That's without any freeway bypasses accelerating the process. It takes a lot of key people (cops, teachers, fire fighters, plumbers, etc) and a healthy tax base for a town to function properly. That doesn't happen without a strong percentage of working age, tax-paying adults. Too many small towns across the Great Plains just don't have that. They see their young people grow up and then GTFO if they have the means to do so. Older people tend to enjoy small town life, but even they can be forced to move to bigger towns or cities if their own town no longer has important services. A small town with no police department and no medical clinic isn't going to be a safe place for an eldery person to live.

Dumas is a big enough town (over 10,000 in population) that it's unlikely it could ever turn into a ghost town within the next 50 years, barring some kind of natural, economic or military disaster. OTOH, Dumas is no longer growing. The town lost about 200 people from the 2010 to 2020 census.

A town like Clayton, NM (home to less than 3000 people) is more exposed to demographic decline. A highway agency can draw up plans and wait 10-20 years for the town to wither enough. Then there won't be as much opposition to block a highway project. A town that is shrinking, seeing all its young people leave, might actually welcome something like an Interstate to help get them back on the map and (hopefully) fuel some economic development.

Clayton is just an example. I don't know who all the major employers are there. But the main businesses I see operating there are chain restaurants and convenience stores. There's other stuff that looks boarded-up and closed for good. It's not a big deal for these chain stores to relocate to a new bypass. Love's can certainly do it. They've re-built that Clayton location at least once already and the daytime traffic is pretty bad there now. If Clayton had a new freeway bypass Love's could build a nicer location with better parking capacity and easier in/out access.

Have viewed the banality, that is the new mexico department up close on job sites and meetings, etc for 25-28 years.  There is no way an I grade facility will ever be built on the US 64/87 corridor, in the NE corner of the state.  With current mentalities, which have existed for at least 40 years now.   A western state, 125,000 +/- square miles in size, should have had an aggressive four lane and new terrain construction program, bolstered by near unamimous solid political support and appropriate funding.   The "fall off" of design standards should never have happened.   Quite a bit, if not most of what has been "constructed" in the last thirty years is regressive, in design and nature, and in an ideal scenario, should be ripped out and done correctly.   

[Bobby5280]

My point is that some folks do not want any change whatsoever.

Those kinds of people are in every small town and even small cities. When those people are in a town that is losing population, aging and seeing its tax base shrink, there is little they can do to stop a highway from bypassing their town, especially if the state DOT builds the alignment completely outside the town's property limits.

In the early 1990's Lawton didn't have any decent sit-down restaurant chain locations in town. People had to drive to OKC or Wichita Falls just to eat at a place like the Olive Garden. When Applebee's proposed opening a location a bunch of local businessmen (most of whom owned restaurants) raised hell with the city council over it. The city council couldn't do anything legally to block it. The same thing happened when Walmart proposed building its first "supercenter" store here. 20+ years later, Lawton has a lot more chain restaurant locations (and 3 Walmart stores). The local restaurants that were good still managed to survive. We don't have any locally owned grocery stores (there are other rivals to Walmart).

Today local business people here are singing a bit of a different tune regarding outsiders. They want to encourage economic development and recruit new businesses. That way there might be enough jobs and opportunity for their adult children and grandchildren to stay in Lawton. Even this town has seen a lot of Lawton-born youth leave permanently for OKC, Dallas, etc after college. Right now the buzz is all about a cobalt refinery to be built out on the West side of town.

Have viewed the banality, that is the new mexico department up close on job sites and meetings, etc for 25-28 years.  There is no way an I grade facility will ever be built on the US 64/87 corridor, in the NE corner of the state.

Like I said, my comments about Clayton were just an example, a hypothetical one. I do think it is very possible and plausible for Decatur to get a new Interstate quality bypass. The same goes for upgrading US-287 to Interstate standards from Amarillo up to Stratford and even the OK state line. Texas is more likely to get shit done than any of the other states involved in the Ports to Plains Corridor.

The foot-draggers in the New Mexico state government also benefit from Colorado's hair-brained policies toward highway development. If CDOT was allowed to get more serious with the US-287 and US-50 corridors the results could shift a good amount of traffic (and highway stop business) away from the US-64/87 corridor.

[TXtoNJ]

The average residents will MOSTLY support a loop/bypass to get the 18-wheeler traffic out of the CBD. On the other hand, a loop/bypass will accelerate the demise of the town as they have historically known it. You can never tell. That said, there are fewer and fewer of these types of local control scenarios anyway.

None of these small towns in the High Plains is adding population as it is. That's without any freeway bypasses accelerating the process. It takes a lot of key people (cops, teachers, fire fighters, plumbers, etc) and a healthy tax base for a town to function properly. That doesn't happen without a strong percentage of working age, tax-paying adults. Too many small towns across the Great Plains just don't have that. They see their young people grow up and then GTFO if they have the means to do so. Older people tend to enjoy small town life, but even they can be forced to move to bigger towns or cities if their own town no longer has important services. A small town with no police department and no medical clinic isn't going to be a safe place for an eldery person to live.

Dumas is a big enough town (over 10,000 in population) that it's unlikely it could ever turn into a ghost town within the next 50 years, barring some kind of natural, economic or military disaster. OTOH, Dumas is no longer growing. The town lost about 200 people from the 2010 to 2020 census.

A town like Clayton, NM (home to less than 3000 people) is more exposed to demographic decline. A highway agency can draw up plans and wait 10-20 years for the town to wither enough. Then there won't be as much opposition to block a highway project. A town that is shrinking, seeing all its young people leave, might actually welcome something like an Interstate to help get them back on the map and (hopefully) fuel some economic development.

Clayton is just an example. I don't know who all the major employers are there. But the main businesses I see operating there are chain restaurants and convenience stores. There's other stuff that looks boarded-up and closed for good. It's not a big deal for these chain stores to relocate to a new bypass. Love's can certainly do it. They've re-built that Clayton location at least once already and the daytime traffic is pretty bad there now. If Clayton had a new freeway bypass Love's could build a nicer location with better parking capacity and easier in/out access.

Look at Clarksville TX. about 35 years ago, they had a bond vote for a local reservoir. It passed.It would have provided water for Clarksville and Red River County for decades (Probably at least 50 years including projected growth.)  The aginners voted two of the commissioners out of office (one already was opposed). They never sold the bonds. They never built the lake. Clarksville is a much smaller town now than in 1985. I am not going to say if this is good or bad. What I will say is one segment of the population wanted to circumvent change and it worked.  Clarksville 2023 is closer to Clarksville 1953 than even 1983. Ironically, both US-82 and SH-37 have bypassed town. There is still almost zero development out there nearly 2 decades in.   My point is that some folks do not want any change whatsoever.

Shocking, for a place with a Confederate monument in the center of town

[bwana39]

Shocking, for a place with a Confederate monument in the center of town

Yeah, the petition to remove it had more signatures than the whole population of Clarksville and probably more than the AA population in Red River COunty.
https://eparisextra.com/trending-topics-2/residents-of-clarksville-call-for-removal-of-confederate-statue/

As far as I know, the statue is still there.

[BJ59]

I think it would be smart to build bypasses around towns, but I don't think the entire US-87 north of Amarillo needs to be upgraded to a freeway. There's not enough local traffic turning off and on the highway to justify spending millions upgrading rural parts of the highway into a freeway. I think in other examples, such as US-287 between Decatur to Fort Worth, it would make more sense as there is a lot more local traffic trying to use the at-grade intersections. But the US-87 corridor north of Amarillo is carrying traffic that will stay on US-87, so I think a freeway upgrade is only necessary in the big towns

[sprjus4]

I think it would be smart to build bypasses around towns, but I don't think the entire US-87 north of Amarillo needs to be upgraded to a freeway. There's not enough local traffic turning off and on the highway to justify spending millions upgrading rural parts of the highway into a freeway. I think in other examples, such as US-287 between Decatur to Fort Worth, it would make more sense as there is a lot more local traffic trying to use the at-grade intersections. But the US-87 corridor north of Amarillo is carrying traffic that will stay on US-87, so I think a freeway upgrade is only necessary in the big towns

I agree - the town bypasses should be the highest priority - along with widening any 2 lane portions to 4 lanes divided. Any other rural improvement - specifically access control - should come last, and only when traffic volumes on the mainline rise to the levels to warrant it from a safety aspect.

Texas is one of the few states in this country that permit a 75 mph speed limit regardless of access control or not, so it wouldn't make any difference to the flow and speed of mainline traffic, especially if it's lower.

[Bobby5280]

I think it would be smart to build bypasses around towns, but I don't think the entire US-87 north of Amarillo needs to be upgraded to a freeway. There's not enough local traffic turning off and on the highway to justify spending millions upgrading rural parts of the highway into a freeway.

This could be said about any rural stretch of existing Interstate highway in the Western US. Yet those roads (with the exception of certain portions of I-10 and I-40 in West Texas) were made limited access. It has just as much to do with safety and helping traffic move efficiently.

If we built highway segments with fully controlled access only where vehicle counts were deemed high enough to justify it (50,000 or more VPD?) there would be hardly any fully complete Interstate routes in the nation.

It's not just the amount of vehicles using the route, but the kinds of vehicles using it too. There is a lot of heavy trucks on US-287 from Amarillo up to Dumas (and even more from Amarillo down to Fort Worth).

If US-287 North of Amarillo was upgraded at all a bypass around Dumas should certainly be up front on the list of priorities. For all I know TX DOT could choose to upgrade the Amarillo-Dumas segment in linear fashion, working from South to North. Upgrades would be fairly easy. Little, if any, new ROW would have to be acquired. Not every at-grade intersection needs its own highway exit either. They can do like what is being done in far South Texas: building short length frontage roads.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah I agree. Using only ADTs to determine whether a particular section of an overall larger interstate corridor should be built or not is ridiculous.

[The Ghostbuster]

The town bypasses should be constructed even if Interstate 27 is never extended north of Amarillo (and I am not 100% convinced it should be).

[sprjus4]

I think it would be smart to build bypasses around towns, but I don't think the entire US-87 north of Amarillo needs to be upgraded to a freeway. There's not enough local traffic turning off and on the highway to justify spending millions upgrading rural parts of the highway into a freeway.

This could be said about any rural stretch of existing Interstate highway in the Western US. Yet those roads (with the exception of certain portions of I-10 and I-40 in West Texas) were made limited access. It has just as much to do with safety and helping traffic move efficiently.

If we built highway segments with fully controlled access only where vehicle counts were deemed high enough to justify it (50,000 or more VPD?) there would be hardly any fully complete Interstate routes in the nation.

It's not just the amount of vehicles using the route, but the kinds of vehicles using it too. There is a lot of heavy trucks on US-287 from Amarillo up to Dumas (and even more from Amarillo down to Fort Worth).

If US-287 North of Amarillo was upgraded at all a bypass around Dumas should certainly be up front on the list of priorities. For all I know TX DOT could choose to upgrade the Amarillo-Dumas segment in linear fashion, working from South to North. Upgrades would be fairly easy. Little, if any, new ROW would have to be acquired. Not every at-grade intersection needs its own highway exit either. They can do like what is being done in far South Texas: building short length frontage roads.

$$$.

There was a dedicated source for interstate highway funding back in the 1950s and 1960s, stretching into the 1970s and 80s to complete the original system.

There's no dedicated funding source nowadays. While the vision may be fully controlled access throughout, that should only come when funding permits and it's warranted. The priority now should be bypasses, 4 lanes divided, and no traffic signals.