Our Highways are NOT crumbling

[formulanone]

Americans are constantly being told that the infrastructure that sustains their way of life is falling apart, or to use the cliche term, crumbling. The term "crumbling" has been used in this context since the late 70s, a feeling that I'm sure was brought on by high profile disasters that decade like the collapse of the West Side Highway in New York. But how is it possible that infrastructure that was "crumbling" during Jimmy Carter's presidency still works fine today? The short answer is none of it's true.

The FHWA keep track of the quality of our highways. The media likes to hop on the tens of thousands of bridges that are rated as structurally deficient, at last count just over 50,000. But what they don't tell you is that in 1990, it was 125,000.

Nobody likes potholes and I've got news, you're driving over fewer of them than you were a decade ago, as measured by the International Roughness Index. So, our streets aren't exactly crumbling either.

So yeah, the great American infrastructure crisis does not exist. It's perpetuated by construction companies looking for projects and the media's need for bad news. We already spend on the order of $400 billion a year on highways, railroads, airports, and bridges and seeing the sharp decline in dilapidated bridges and improvement in asphalt smoothness, it's clearly more than enough. Don't let politicians sell you a bill of goods.

Also, hemorrhagic strokes are the body's way of just needing a nap. Don't let the medical community rip you off with awareness, health, well-being, and pharmaceuticals!

[index]

Now you're just bullshitting.

https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/themes/road-safety

I am?

Something being less of a problem is also not an argument against its existence as a problem...This country's infrastructure still lags well behind other countries in the developed world in several different measures

I suggest you calm down and re-read things before you decide to start snapping at people.

[index]

More importantly, those countries are poorer than us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI

Plain old numbers without any insight into the figures and how they are related to each other/how they apply to their own countries just can't be a valid figure in measuring how well somewhere is doing. Louisiana has a higher human development index and better raw numbers than the Czech Republic. North Carolina has a similar HDI to South Korea and better raw numbers money-wise for individual citizens. A lot of US states also have HDIs comparable to other Western European nations. Consider all the poverty in these places. Take into account the infrastructure, the healthcare, the job opportunity, the standard of living. Think for a moment, do you really think the average lower middle class Louisianan or North Carolinian is better off than the average lower middle class Czhechian or South Korean? This page also goes on to talk about how well off young people in Norway are now despite the US ranking higher in the list. If US states were ranked with inequality in mind as the IHDI does we would see a very different picture being painted.

If you want public transit, pay for it yourself. We drivers pay for our roads with our gas taxes and registration fees, which contrary to what you may have heard, all but cover the cost of highways with net subsidy only being 1 cent per passenger mile vs 1 dollar per passenger mile for transit. And I'm glad we have urban freeways. Getting to Logan Airport to pick up my sister when she visits us would be much harder without the MassPike.

I'm really glad we have rivers and waterways. It makes it so easy to dispose of my trash, it's just a few steps behind my house. Toss it in the water and watch it glug down the stream. Could you imagine having to go through all the work of waste management and recycling? That would be really hard.

[kphoger]

That's the first time I'd ever heard of IHDI.

[kernals12]

More importantly, those countries are poorer than us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI

Plain old numbers without any insight into the figures and how they are related to each other/how they apply to their own countries just can't be a valid figure in measuring how well somewhere is doing. Louisiana has a higher human development index and better raw numbers than the Czech Republic. North Carolina has a similar HDI to South Korea and better raw numbers money-wise for individual citizens. A lot of US states also have HDIs comparable to other Western European nations. Consider all the poverty in these places. Take into account the infrastructure, the healthcare, the job opportunity, the standard of living. Think for a moment, do you really think the average lower middle class Louisianan or North Carolinian is better off than the average lower middle class Czhechian or South Korean? This page also goes on to talk about how well off young people in Norway are now despite the US ranking higher in the list. If US states were ranked with inequality in mind as the IHDI does we would see a very different picture being painted.

If you want public transit, pay for it yourself. We drivers pay for our roads with our gas taxes and registration fees, which contrary to what you may have heard, all but cover the cost of highways with net subsidy only being 1 cent per passenger mile vs 1 dollar per passenger mile for transit. And I'm glad we have urban freeways. Getting to Logan Airport to pick up my sister when she visits us would be much harder without the MassPike.

I'm really glad we have rivers and waterways. It makes it so easy to dispose of my trash, it's just a few steps behind my house. Could you imagine having to go through all the work of waste management and recycling? That would be really hard.

The Louisianan lives in a larger house, that has air conditioning, and he or she has a car. So yes.

[index]

More importantly, those countries are poorer than us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI

Plain old numbers without any insight into the figures and how they are related to each other/how they apply to their own countries just can't be a valid figure in measuring how well somewhere is doing. Louisiana has a higher human development index and better raw numbers than the Czech Republic. North Carolina has a similar HDI to South Korea and better raw numbers money-wise for individual citizens. A lot of US states also have HDIs comparable to other Western European nations. Consider all the poverty in these places. Take into account the infrastructure, the healthcare, the job opportunity, the standard of living. Think for a moment, do you really think the average lower middle class Louisianan or North Carolinian is better off than the average lower middle class Czhechian or South Korean? This page also goes on to talk about how well off young people in Norway are now despite the US ranking higher in the list. If US states were ranked with inequality in mind as the IHDI does we would see a very different picture being painted.

If you want public transit, pay for it yourself. We drivers pay for our roads with our gas taxes and registration fees, which contrary to what you may have heard, all but cover the cost of highways with net subsidy only being 1 cent per passenger mile vs 1 dollar per passenger mile for transit. And I'm glad we have urban freeways. Getting to Logan Airport to pick up my sister when she visits us would be much harder without the MassPike.

I'm really glad we have rivers and waterways. It makes it so easy to dispose of my trash, it's just a few steps behind my house. Could you imagine having to go through all the work of waste management and recycling? That would be really hard.

The Louisianan lives in a larger house, that has air conditioning, and he or she has a car. So yes.

So numbers, data, poverty lines, and the individual needs of people with regard to how they affect others mean nothing anymore? It's all about pointless vanity now? And physical possessions with no regard to the situation behind it? My mother grew up in a developing nation in abject poverty. She also lived on a farm with a lot of space for livestock and growing small amounts of crops. Her family had a car. By your logic, she was better off as a child than she is now. Some guy who lives in a trailer home in Mississippi with an AC unit sticking out of the window and a beat up truck who can't find a decent paying job, is totally uninsured, is now better off than someone who doesn't have AC, uses public transit, and lives in a studio apartment, but also has insurance and is able to access job opportunities right then and there.

Damn, I might live in a country that is one of the least developed in the western world with some of the worst inequality and poverty in the developed world, but hey, at least I'm not some stinky European with their lack of AC and non car-centric civil engineering and urban planning. Take that! We can sit in homes that we're at risk of being evicted from or foreclosed on nice and chilly while they sweat in their heat waves with their stupid fancy buses and trams and rural connectivity. They can't even go anywhere they want in a car! Sure, the Midwest might be in continual decline but at least they can go to McDonald's in this strip mall that's a thirty-minute walk from their house anytime they want.

[kernals12]

More importantly, those countries are poorer than us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI

Plain old numbers without any insight into the figures and how they are related to each other/how they apply to their own countries just can't be a valid figure in measuring how well somewhere is doing. Louisiana has a higher human development index and better raw numbers than the Czech Republic. North Carolina has a similar HDI to South Korea and better raw numbers money-wise for individual citizens. A lot of US states also have HDIs comparable to other Western European nations. Consider all the poverty in these places. Take into account the infrastructure, the healthcare, the job opportunity, the standard of living. Think for a moment, do you really think the average lower middle class Louisianan or North Carolinian is better off than the average lower middle class Czhechian or South Korean? This page also goes on to talk about how well off young people in Norway are now despite the US ranking higher in the list. If US states were ranked with inequality in mind as the IHDI does we would see a very different picture being painted.

If you want public transit, pay for it yourself. We drivers pay for our roads with our gas taxes and registration fees, which contrary to what you may have heard, all but cover the cost of highways with net subsidy only being 1 cent per passenger mile vs 1 dollar per passenger mile for transit. And I'm glad we have urban freeways. Getting to Logan Airport to pick up my sister when she visits us would be much harder without the MassPike.

I'm really glad we have rivers and waterways. It makes it so easy to dispose of my trash, it's just a few steps behind my house. Could you imagine having to go through all the work of waste management and recycling? That would be really hard.

The Louisianan lives in a larger house, that has air conditioning, and he or she has a car. So yes.

So numbers, data, poverty lines, and the individual needs of people with regard to how they affect others mean nothing anymore? It's all about vanity and possessions with no regard to the situation behind it? My mother grew up in a developing nation in abject poverty. She also lived on a farm with a lot of space for livestock and growing small amounts of crops. Her family had a car. By your logic, she was better off as a child than she is now. Some guy who lives in a trailer home in Mississippi with an AC unit sticking out of the window and a beat up truck who can't find a decent paying job, is totally uninsured, is now better off than someone who doesn't have AC, uses public transit, and lives in a studio apartment, but also has insurance and is able to access job opportunities right then and there.

Compared to the median OECD nation, America, per capita, has twice as many MRIs, 3 times as many people on dialysis, 4 times as many coronary bypasses, and 6 times as many coronary angioplasties. The person in the Czech Republic may have insurance, but that doesn't mean they'll get the care they need. In Britain, the NHS doesn't cover treatments that cost more than 30,000 pounds per Quality Adjusted Life Year added. Can you imagine the uproar if they tried that with Medicare?

[index]

More importantly, those countries are poorer than us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI

Plain old numbers without any insight into the figures and how they are related to each other/how they apply to their own countries just can't be a valid figure in measuring how well somewhere is doing. Louisiana has a higher human development index and better raw numbers than the Czech Republic. North Carolina has a similar HDI to South Korea and better raw numbers money-wise for individual citizens. A lot of US states also have HDIs comparable to other Western European nations. Consider all the poverty in these places. Take into account the infrastructure, the healthcare, the job opportunity, the standard of living. Think for a moment, do you really think the average lower middle class Louisianan or North Carolinian is better off than the average lower middle class Czhechian or South Korean? This page also goes on to talk about how well off young people in Norway are now despite the US ranking higher in the list. If US states were ranked with inequality in mind as the IHDI does we would see a very different picture being painted.

If you want public transit, pay for it yourself. We drivers pay for our roads with our gas taxes and registration fees, which contrary to what you may have heard, all but cover the cost of highways with net subsidy only being 1 cent per passenger mile vs 1 dollar per passenger mile for transit. And I'm glad we have urban freeways. Getting to Logan Airport to pick up my sister when she visits us would be much harder without the MassPike.

I'm really glad we have rivers and waterways. It makes it so easy to dispose of my trash, it's just a few steps behind my house. Could you imagine having to go through all the work of waste management and recycling? That would be really hard.

The Louisianan lives in a larger house, that has air conditioning, and he or she has a car. So yes.

So numbers, data, poverty lines, and the individual needs of people with regard to how they affect others mean nothing anymore? It's all about vanity and possessions with no regard to the situation behind it? My mother grew up in a developing nation in abject poverty. She also lived on a farm with a lot of space for livestock and growing small amounts of crops. Her family had a car. By your logic, she was better off as a child than she is now. Some guy who lives in a trailer home in Mississippi with an AC unit sticking out of the window and a beat up truck who can't find a decent paying job, is totally uninsured, is now better off than someone who doesn't have AC, uses public transit, and lives in a studio apartment, but also has insurance and is able to access job opportunities right then and there.

Compared to the median OECD nation, America, per capita, has twice as many MRIs, 3 times as many people on dialysis, 4 times as many coronary bypasses, and 6 times as many coronary angioplasties. The person in the Czech Republic may have insurance, but that doesn't mean they'll get the care they need. In Britain, the NHS doesn't cover treatments that cost more than 30,000 pounds per Quality Adjusted Life Year added. Can you imagine the uproar if they tried that with Medicare?

Because this country is in worse health and has higher obesity and diabetes rates and other factors promoting the necessity of those procedures due to the lack of availability and affordability of high-quality foods in food deserts, lack of walking as a form of transit, and higher stress levels, among other things? There is a reason it's predominantly rural states and states in the Rust Belt that have experienced significant losses to their economic potential and infrastructure the highest rates of obesity. Notice how the food desert map lines up with obesity, poverty, etc in the country.


Infrastructure is the backbone of a nation, and evidently ours is not adequate. Better accessibility to opportunity decreases all the risk factors for these things. Not to mention many people in this country still do not get the care they need. Otherwise we wouldn't have some of the most deaths due to lack of insulin. We also have some of the highest rates of deaths in the developed world for the conditions that those procedures treat. Our rate of death from heart disease as just one example is 2.8 times higher than the next highest country, Germany, and is higher by both the raw amount of deaths and the rate of deaths than many other developed nations. The activity of a healthcare system is not necessarily a good measure of the health or well-being of a country's citizens relative to other nations...Other examples that I could have used to prove that statement would be the fact that y'know, COVID-19, that crazy new virus, is currently pushing our healthcare system over capacity in many states.

[kernals12]

More importantly, those countries are poorer than us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI

Plain old numbers without any insight into the figures and how they are related to each other/how they apply to their own countries just can't be a valid figure in measuring how well somewhere is doing. Louisiana has a higher human development index and better raw numbers than the Czech Republic. North Carolina has a similar HDI to South Korea and better raw numbers money-wise for individual citizens. A lot of US states also have HDIs comparable to other Western European nations. Consider all the poverty in these places. Take into account the infrastructure, the healthcare, the job opportunity, the standard of living. Think for a moment, do you really think the average lower middle class Louisianan or North Carolinian is better off than the average lower middle class Czhechian or South Korean? This page also goes on to talk about how well off young people in Norway are now despite the US ranking higher in the list. If US states were ranked with inequality in mind as the IHDI does we would see a very different picture being painted.

If you want public transit, pay for it yourself. We drivers pay for our roads with our gas taxes and registration fees, which contrary to what you may have heard, all but cover the cost of highways with net subsidy only being 1 cent per passenger mile vs 1 dollar per passenger mile for transit. And I'm glad we have urban freeways. Getting to Logan Airport to pick up my sister when she visits us would be much harder without the MassPike.

I'm really glad we have rivers and waterways. It makes it so easy to dispose of my trash, it's just a few steps behind my house. Could you imagine having to go through all the work of waste management and recycling? That would be really hard.

The Louisianan lives in a larger house, that has air conditioning, and he or she has a car. So yes.

So numbers, data, poverty lines, and the individual needs of people with regard to how they affect others mean nothing anymore? It's all about vanity and possessions with no regard to the situation behind it? My mother grew up in a developing nation in abject poverty. She also lived on a farm with a lot of space for livestock and growing small amounts of crops. Her family had a car. By your logic, she was better off as a child than she is now. Some guy who lives in a trailer home in Mississippi with an AC unit sticking out of the window and a beat up truck who can't find a decent paying job, is totally uninsured, is now better off than someone who doesn't have AC, uses public transit, and lives in a studio apartment, but also has insurance and is able to access job opportunities right then and there.

Compared to the median OECD nation, America, per capita, has twice as many MRIs, 3 times as many people on dialysis, 4 times as many coronary bypasses, and 6 times as many coronary angioplasties. The person in the Czech Republic may have insurance, but that doesn't mean they'll get the care they need. In Britain, the NHS doesn't cover treatments that cost more than 30,000 pounds per Quality Adjusted Life Year added. Can you imagine the uproar if they tried that with Medicare?

Because this country is in worse health and has higher obesity and diabetes rates and other factors promoting the necessity of those procedures due to the lack of availability and affordability of high-quality foods in food deserts, lack of walking as a form of transit, and higher stress levels, among other things? There is a reason it's predominantly rural states and states in the Rust Belt that have experienced significant losses to their economic potential and infrastructure the highest rates of obesity. Notice how the food desert map lines up with obesity, poverty, etc in the country.


Infrastructure is the backbone of a nation, and evidently ours is not adequate. Better accessibility to opportunity decreases all the risk factors for these things. Not to mention many people in this country still do not get the care they need. Otherwise we wouldn't have some of the most deaths due to lack of insulin. We also have some of the highest rates of deaths in the developed world for the conditions that those procedures treat. Our rate of death from heart disease as just one example is 2.8 times higher than the next highest country, Germany, and is higher by both the raw amount of deaths and the rate of deaths than many other developed nations. The activity of a healthcare system is not necessarily a good measure of the health or well-being of a country's citizens relative to other nations...Other examples that I could have used to prove that statement would be the fact that y'know, COVID-19, that crazy new virus, is currently pushing our healthcare system over capacity in many states.

With 91% of Americans owning a car, we don't lack that.

[index]

More importantly, those countries are poorer than us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI

Plain old numbers without any insight into the figures and how they are related to each other/how they apply to their own countries just can't be a valid figure in measuring how well somewhere is doing. Louisiana has a higher human development index and better raw numbers than the Czech Republic. North Carolina has a similar HDI to South Korea and better raw numbers money-wise for individual citizens. A lot of US states also have HDIs comparable to other Western European nations. Consider all the poverty in these places. Take into account the infrastructure, the healthcare, the job opportunity, the standard of living. Think for a moment, do you really think the average lower middle class Louisianan or North Carolinian is better off than the average lower middle class Czhechian or South Korean? This page also goes on to talk about how well off young people in Norway are now despite the US ranking higher in the list. If US states were ranked with inequality in mind as the IHDI does we would see a very different picture being painted.

If you want public transit, pay for it yourself. We drivers pay for our roads with our gas taxes and registration fees, which contrary to what you may have heard, all but cover the cost of highways with net subsidy only being 1 cent per passenger mile vs 1 dollar per passenger mile for transit. And I'm glad we have urban freeways. Getting to Logan Airport to pick up my sister when she visits us would be much harder without the MassPike.

I'm really glad we have rivers and waterways. It makes it so easy to dispose of my trash, it's just a few steps behind my house. Could you imagine having to go through all the work of waste management and recycling? That would be really hard.

The Louisianan lives in a larger house, that has air conditioning, and he or she has a car. So yes.

So numbers, data, poverty lines, and the individual needs of people with regard to how they affect others mean nothing anymore? It's all about vanity and possessions with no regard to the situation behind it? My mother grew up in a developing nation in abject poverty. She also lived on a farm with a lot of space for livestock and growing small amounts of crops. Her family had a car. By your logic, she was better off as a child than she is now. Some guy who lives in a trailer home in Mississippi with an AC unit sticking out of the window and a beat up truck who can't find a decent paying job, is totally uninsured, is now better off than someone who doesn't have AC, uses public transit, and lives in a studio apartment, but also has insurance and is able to access job opportunities right then and there.

Compared to the median OECD nation, America, per capita, has twice as many MRIs, 3 times as many people on dialysis, 4 times as many coronary bypasses, and 6 times as many coronary angioplasties. The person in the Czech Republic may have insurance, but that doesn't mean they'll get the care they need. In Britain, the NHS doesn't cover treatments that cost more than 30,000 pounds per Quality Adjusted Life Year added. Can you imagine the uproar if they tried that with Medicare?

Because this country is in worse health and has higher obesity and diabetes rates and other factors promoting the necessity of those procedures due to the lack of availability and affordability of high-quality foods in food deserts, lack of walking as a form of transit, and higher stress levels, among other things? There is a reason it's predominantly rural states and states in the Rust Belt that have experienced significant losses to their economic potential and infrastructure the highest rates of obesity. Notice how the food desert map lines up with obesity, poverty, etc in the country.


Infrastructure is the backbone of a nation, and evidently ours is not adequate. Better accessibility to opportunity decreases all the risk factors for these things. Not to mention many people in this country still do not get the care they need. Otherwise we wouldn't have some of the most deaths due to lack of insulin. We also have some of the highest rates of deaths in the developed world for the conditions that those procedures treat. Our rate of death from heart disease as just one example is 2.8 times higher than the next highest country, Germany, and is higher by both the raw amount of deaths and the rate of deaths than many other developed nations. The activity of a healthcare system is not necessarily a good measure of the health or well-being of a country's citizens relative to other nations...Other examples that I could have used to prove that statement would be the fact that y'know, COVID-19, that crazy new virus, is currently pushing our healthcare system over capacity in many states.

With 91% of Americans owning a car, we don't lack that.

Man, did everything I say just go out the window? A car alone doesn't get you out of the socioeconomic and infrastructural pits of places like Welch, West Virginia, Hazard, Kentucky, or Gary, Indiana. The issues affecting these areas and people are complex and interconnected. Highways can help these areas to an extent, yes, the ADHS was a huge success as one example, but even then, as I mentioned much earlier in the thread, these problems are still massive no matter how you picture it and the approaches that led to growth for these people and places won't work again for a myriad of reasons. Lack of willing contractors, lack of funds, a shrinking tax base, lack of economic potential that could be extracted from these places in their current state, etc, etc. In many cases more cars and roads only siphoned commerce and opportunity from these places. We need new approaches to infrastructure. How insulated are you from the reality of these situations to think that you can just slap a band-aid like that on top of these situations and think they'll go away? You or other people could have been in poor conditions at some point in your life, and our existing situation may have worked for you, but ultimately, those are an exception to the main rule that all the data points lead to.

Take a look beyond the image of 1950s suburbia. You will be surprised to see the poverty in your own area. It's worse than you think. I've volunteered for political campaigns and as such talked to a lot of these people before from all sorts of different backgrounds and walks of life, literally just a few minutes from me, all their experiences have the same common theme around them. These people are in areas where you largely need a car to get around in many cases. We tried car culture already. It worked in the short term, it has given us so many problems in the long term.

[kernals12]

More importantly, those countries are poorer than us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI

Plain old numbers without any insight into the figures and how they are related to each other/how they apply to their own countries just can't be a valid figure in measuring how well somewhere is doing. Louisiana has a higher human development index and better raw numbers than the Czech Republic. North Carolina has a similar HDI to South Korea and better raw numbers money-wise for individual citizens. A lot of US states also have HDIs comparable to other Western European nations. Consider all the poverty in these places. Take into account the infrastructure, the healthcare, the job opportunity, the standard of living. Think for a moment, do you really think the average lower middle class Louisianan or North Carolinian is better off than the average lower middle class Czhechian or South Korean? This page also goes on to talk about how well off young people in Norway are now despite the US ranking higher in the list. If US states were ranked with inequality in mind as the IHDI does we would see a very different picture being painted.

If you want public transit, pay for it yourself. We drivers pay for our roads with our gas taxes and registration fees, which contrary to what you may have heard, all but cover the cost of highways with net subsidy only being 1 cent per passenger mile vs 1 dollar per passenger mile for transit. And I'm glad we have urban freeways. Getting to Logan Airport to pick up my sister when she visits us would be much harder without the MassPike.

I'm really glad we have rivers and waterways. It makes it so easy to dispose of my trash, it's just a few steps behind my house. Could you imagine having to go through all the work of waste management and recycling? That would be really hard.

The Louisianan lives in a larger house, that has air conditioning, and he or she has a car. So yes.

So numbers, data, poverty lines, and the individual needs of people with regard to how they affect others mean nothing anymore? It's all about vanity and possessions with no regard to the situation behind it? My mother grew up in a developing nation in abject poverty. She also lived on a farm with a lot of space for livestock and growing small amounts of crops. Her family had a car. By your logic, she was better off as a child than she is now. Some guy who lives in a trailer home in Mississippi with an AC unit sticking out of the window and a beat up truck who can't find a decent paying job, is totally uninsured, is now better off than someone who doesn't have AC, uses public transit, and lives in a studio apartment, but also has insurance and is able to access job opportunities right then and there.

Compared to the median OECD nation, America, per capita, has twice as many MRIs, 3 times as many people on dialysis, 4 times as many coronary bypasses, and 6 times as many coronary angioplasties. The person in the Czech Republic may have insurance, but that doesn't mean they'll get the care they need. In Britain, the NHS doesn't cover treatments that cost more than 30,000 pounds per Quality Adjusted Life Year added. Can you imagine the uproar if they tried that with Medicare?

Because this country is in worse health and has higher obesity and diabetes rates and other factors promoting the necessity of those procedures due to the lack of availability and affordability of high-quality foods in food deserts, lack of walking as a form of transit, and higher stress levels, among other things? There is a reason it's predominantly rural states and states in the Rust Belt that have experienced significant losses to their economic potential and infrastructure the highest rates of obesity. Notice how the food desert map lines up with obesity, poverty, etc in the country.


Infrastructure is the backbone of a nation, and evidently ours is not adequate. Better accessibility to opportunity decreases all the risk factors for these things. Not to mention many people in this country still do not get the care they need. Otherwise we wouldn't have some of the most deaths due to lack of insulin. We also have some of the highest rates of deaths in the developed world for the conditions that those procedures treat. Our rate of death from heart disease as just one example is 2.8 times higher than the next highest country, Germany, and is higher by both the raw amount of deaths and the rate of deaths than many other developed nations. The activity of a healthcare system is not necessarily a good measure of the health or well-being of a country's citizens relative to other nations...Other examples that I could have used to prove that statement would be the fact that y'know, COVID-19, that crazy new virus, is currently pushing our healthcare system over capacity in many states.

With 91% of Americans owning a car, we don't lack that.

Man, did everything I say just go out the window? A car alone doesn't get you out of the socioeconomic and infrastructural pits of places like Welch, West Virginia, Hazard, Kentucky, or Gary, Indiana. The issues affecting these areas and people are complex and interconnected. Highways can help these areas to an extent, yes, the ADHS was a huge success as one example, but even then, as I mentioned much earlier in the thread, these problems are still massive no matter how you picture it and the approaches that led to growth for these people and places won't work again for a myriad of reasons. Lack of willing contractors, lack of funds, a shrinking tax base, lack of economic potential that could be extracted from these places in their current state, etc, etc. In many cases more cars and roads only siphoned commerce and opportunity from these places. We need new approaches to infrastructure. How insulated are you from the reality of these situations to think that you can just slap a band-aid like that on top of these situations and think they'll go away? You or other people could have been in poor conditions at some point in your life, and our existing situation may have worked for you, but ultimately, those are an exception to the main rule that all the data points lead to.

Take a look beyond the image of 1950s suburbia. You will be surprised to see the poverty in your own area. It's worse than you think. I've volunteered for political campaigns and as such talked to a lot of these people before from all sorts of different backgrounds and walks of life, literally just a few minutes from me, all their experiences have the same common theme around them. These people are in areas where you largely need a car to get around in many cases. We tried car culture already. It worked in the short term, it has given us so many problems in the long term.

It definitely won't be fixed by transit boondoggles. Robert Byrd tried that, it didn't work.

[Scott5114]

Bad-font signage is not the same as bad-quality roads. (Frequent incorrect or missing signage may be, though.)

Good thing Oklahoma can have both at the same time.

[index]

Man, did everything I say just go out the window? A car alone doesn't get you out of the socioeconomic and infrastructural pits of places like Welch, West Virginia, Hazard, Kentucky, or Gary, Indiana. The issues affecting these areas and people are complex and interconnected. Highways can help these areas to an extent, yes, the ADHS was a huge success as one example, but even then, as I mentioned much earlier in the thread, these problems are still massive no matter how you picture it and the approaches that led to growth for these people and places won't work again for a myriad of reasons. Lack of willing contractors, lack of funds, a shrinking tax base, lack of economic potential that could be extracted from these places in their current state, etc, etc. In many cases more cars and roads only siphoned commerce and opportunity from these places. We need new approaches to infrastructure. How insulated are you from the reality of these situations to think that you can just slap a band-aid like that on top of these situations and think they'll go away? You or other people could have been in poor conditions at some point in your life, and our existing situation may have worked for you, but ultimately, those are an exception to the main rule that all the data points lead to.

Take a look beyond the image of 1950s suburbia. You will be surprised to see the poverty in your own area. It's worse than you think. I've volunteered for political campaigns and as such talked to a lot of these people before from all sorts of different backgrounds and walks of life, literally just a few minutes from me, all their experiences have the same common theme around them. These people are in areas where you largely need a car to get around in many cases. We tried car culture already. It worked in the short term, it has given us so many problems in the long term.

It definitely won't be fixed by transit boondoggles. Robert Byrd tried that, it didn't work.

His support for Essential Air Service/small community air service, Amtrak, and supporting the infrastructure around those things still benefits a lot of people today. Just like the Interstate system, streamlining travel with airline deregulation in 1978 improved travel and transit for a number of people but caused long term losses in some areas, in this case because airlines were no longer obligated to serve certain areas, so additional investments were needed. That man is a legend in West Virginia and with good reason. Who exactly didn't his projects work for? If you are talking about the ADHS, that brought traffic to rural mountain communities rather than bypassing them, the whole "slap car culture everywhere" theme we normally have wasn't present in that situation. For a number of reasons, losses in infrastructure and industry included, that is no longer the case, and the ADHS has trouble providing, hence why we need a new approach to infrastructure. Rebuild and revitalize it it in areas that need rebuilding, including the roads, in situations where they are clearly beneficial, such as the ADHS, and focus on connecting regions with alternate transit methods.

Cars have their place, but to treat them as the only solution, wanting to take away from public transit and prioritize car culture just doesn't work. Not for LA, not for Atlanta, not for so many others. Simply not sustainable in the long term, will end up doing more harm than good. We need other things. See: Rail and air service in WV. When MARC tried to cut service to West Virginia that was also stopped, because of the benefit that it had to the local community. Much better option than driving for certain demographics and more economical in some cases. It allows people to access jobs in the DC area that otherwise might be inaccessible to them for a number of reasons, many of which may have to do with car commuting.

[Duke87]

Traffic deaths

Now you're just bullshitting.

https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/themes/road-safety

I mean, the data there shows that the United States has more traffic fatalities per capita than any other developed nation.

Though I don't think this is an indicator of our roads being less safe or less well-built generally. Rather, I would say it is primarily indicative of 1) Americans driving more miles per capita than most of our developed world peers because our development patterns necessitate it, and 2) The US setting the bar lower for what it takes to get a drivers' license than most of our developed world peers.

[Rothman]

I'm regretting putting more thought into my response than the Craig County sign.  This thread sucks.

[index]

Now you're just bullshitting.

https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/themes/road-safety

I mean, the data there shows that the United States has more traffic fatalities per capita than any other developed nation.

Though I don't think this is an indicator of our roads being less safe or less well-built generally. Rather, I would say it is primarily indicative of 1) Americans driving more miles per capita than most of our developed world peers because our development patterns necessitate it, and 2) The US setting the bar lower for what it takes to get a drivers' license than most of our developed world peers.

The former reason could also be solved by investing in more efficient infrastructure/public transit/urban design. Less people on the road, less miles driven, and an incentive to save money by not driving, generally equals safer roads by virtue of there being less cars and people driving only out of absolute necessity. Not to mention the whole host of other benefits from new urbanism/mixed use.




On the topic of pedestrian accessibility, which was brought up earlier in the thread, I have to mention it, pedestrian infrastructure in this country is just...objectively bad. Even if some place has a sidewalk that doesn't really mean it's any good for walkability. I have to walk an hour just to get out of residential zoning here and to any point of interest at all, that just can't be called pedestrian accessibility, and the same situation goes for a lot of the country too. Even in business districts here, the sidewalks are a joke. There's one spot in Charlotte where a wall goes up on one and it becomes less than a foot wide. One of the least walkable cities in the country. Not to mention half the sidewalks here literally end at random, are ridiculously narrow and right up against the road, are full of overgrowth that makes them impossible to use, and have no signalized crosswalks. Nobody here knows what a pedestrian is. I have almost got hit several times by drivers who aren't used to even dealing with them, crossing the road, on a white hand signal.

You also can't cycle here unless you have a death wish. Someone I know got sent to the hospital with blood gushing out of his head because of an inattentive driver plowing straight into them. They were following the law, cycling properly, and that still happened.

[Flint1979]

I saw a street sign about a month ago it was either in Tuscola County or Genesee County. The road name is called Bray Road but the font on this street sign looked exactly like the Craig County sign font.

[kernals12]

Man, did everything I say just go out the window? A car alone doesn't get you out of the socioeconomic and infrastructural pits of places like Welch, West Virginia, Hazard, Kentucky, or Gary, Indiana. The issues affecting these areas and people are complex and interconnected. Highways can help these areas to an extent, yes, the ADHS was a huge success as one example, but even then, as I mentioned much earlier in the thread, these problems are still massive no matter how you picture it and the approaches that led to growth for these people and places won't work again for a myriad of reasons. Lack of willing contractors, lack of funds, a shrinking tax base, lack of economic potential that could be extracted from these places in their current state, etc, etc. In many cases more cars and roads only siphoned commerce and opportunity from these places. We need new approaches to infrastructure. How insulated are you from the reality of these situations to think that you can just slap a band-aid like that on top of these situations and think they'll go away? You or other people could have been in poor conditions at some point in your life, and our existing situation may have worked for you, but ultimately, those are an exception to the main rule that all the data points lead to.

Take a look beyond the image of 1950s suburbia. You will be surprised to see the poverty in your own area. It's worse than you think. I've volunteered for political campaigns and as such talked to a lot of these people before from all sorts of different backgrounds and walks of life, literally just a few minutes from me, all their experiences have the same common theme around them. These people are in areas where you largely need a car to get around in many cases. We tried car culture already. It worked in the short term, it has given us so many problems in the long term.

It definitely won't be fixed by transit boondoggles. Robert Byrd tried that, it didn't work.

His support for Essential Air Service/small community air service, Amtrak, and supporting the infrastructure around those things still benefits a lot of people today. Just like the Interstate system, streamlining travel with airline deregulation in 1978 improved travel and transit for a number of people but caused long term losses in some areas, in this case because airlines were no longer obligated to serve certain areas, so additional investments were needed. That man is a legend in West Virginia and with good reason. Who exactly didn't his projects work for? If you are talking about the ADHS, that brought traffic to rural mountain communities rather than bypassing them, the whole "slap car culture everywhere" theme we normally have wasn't present in that situation. For a number of reasons, losses in infrastructure and industry included, that is no longer the case, and the ADHS has trouble providing, hence why we need a new approach to infrastructure. Rebuild and revitalize it it in areas that need rebuilding, including the roads, in situations where they are clearly beneficial, such as the ADHS, and focus on connecting regions with alternate transit methods.

Cars have their place, but to treat them as the only solution, wanting to take away from public transit and prioritize car culture just doesn't work. Not for LA, not for Atlanta, not for so many others. Simply not sustainable in the long term, will end up doing more harm than good. We need other things. See: Rail and air service in WV. When MARC tried to cut service to West Virginia that was also stopped, because of the benefit that it had to the local community. Much better option than driving for certain demographics and more economical in some cases. It allows people to access jobs in the DC area that otherwise might be inaccessible to them for a number of reasons, many of which may have to do with car commuting.

I was referring to the infamous number of pork barrel projects he brought to his state, the most famous one being a transit project, the Morgantown PRT. I think West Virginians prefer their pickup trucks.

[1995hoo]

For those who hadn't seen it, the OP is the person who, in a Fictional Highways thread, claims that nobody rides Amtrak, despite also claiming to live in the Boston area. Anyone who lives in the Northeast Corridor knows that (in non-pandemic times, anyway) the claim that "nobody rides Amtrak" is demonstrably false. I'd be riding Amtrak to New York more often than I have been if it weren't for the pandemic. I'm not going to make the absurd argument that Amtrak, or the airline shuttles, are perfect and are all that's needed, but I'm also not so stupid as to argue that simply upgrading and widening the highways is the only capacity that's needed in the Northeast Corridor. All three are important. (Among other issues, while I'm fortunate enough to have parking if I drive to New York for business, for most people parking is a huge expense and problem, and there are always the hassles of driving to where you need to be in the city–that is, kernals12's widened highways might just expedite your access to the backup to get through the Holland Tunnel.)

I just don't understand I-778, the Cross Bronx Realignment (Which destroys active Amtrak train tracks) and the Long Beach Expressway which would basically destroy Long Beach, NY.... The original nassau expressway proposal was supposed to end at a bridge going to long beach, not cut it in half.


Although you're Clearview Expressway proposal seems good, obviously the Cross Island and Belt parkways would have to be upgraded.

I got rid of the Long Beach Expressway. I-778 is there because most of the vehicles that used the old West Side Elevated Highway were trucks going from New Jersey to New Jersey. Hardly anyone uses Amtrak, while the Cross Bronx Expressway is always bumper to bumper, so I think it's a good tradeoff to right Robert Moses' wrongs

The boldfaced is a demonstrably false statement in the very busy Northeast Corridor. Go look at the morning lineup in Boston or DC for the early Acela runs to New York or at Penn Station in the afternoon for the return trip (last time I was on the Acela this past January, the train was completely sold out, and that's not too unusual for the 5:00 southbound departure from NYP). I realize you claim to hate public transit, so I assume your comment is consistent with that, but if you dumped all the Amtrak riders in the Northeast Corridor onto the highways, you'd have a lot more traffic in the way.

Certainly in most of the rest of the country Amtrak is not competitive in the same way it is in the Northeast Corridor, which is unique for a host of reasons.

But the point is, we're not talking to someone who claims to be realistic. He has his agenda, summarized in the tagline below his avatar, and it appears from his comments that in his mind that agenda trumps all other considerations (pun completely intended).

[webny99]

[img snipped]

I saw a street sign about a month ago it was either in Tuscola County or Genesee County. The road name is called Bray Road but the font on this street sign looked exactly like the Craig County sign font.

Is this the one you're thinking of? If so, it was a very easy/lucky find. It was the first sign I encountered after I searched Bray Road. The font does roughly match, but the big difference is that the Craig County sign is essentially a variant of aLtErNaTiNg cApS.

[kernals12]

For those who hadn't seen it, the OP is the person who, in a Fictional Highways thread, claims that nobody rides Amtrak, despite also claiming to live in the Boston area. Anyone who lives in the Northeast Corridor knows that (in non-pandemic times, anyway) the claim that "nobody rides Amtrak" is demonstrably false. I'd be riding Amtrak to New York more often than I have been if it weren't for the pandemic. I'm not going to make the absurd argument that Amtrak, or the airline shuttles, are perfect and are all that's needed, but I'm also not so stupid as to argue that simply upgrading and widening the highways is the only capacity that's needed in the Northeast Corridor. All three are important. (Among other issues, while I'm fortunate enough to have parking if I drive to New York for business, for most people parking is a huge expense and problem, and there are always the hassles of driving to where you need to be in the city–that is, kernals12's widened highways might just expedite your access to the backup to get through the Holland Tunnel.)

I just don't understand I-778, the Cross Bronx Realignment (Which destroys active Amtrak train tracks) and the Long Beach Expressway which would basically destroy Long Beach, NY.... The original nassau expressway proposal was supposed to end at a bridge going to long beach, not cut it in half.


Although you're Clearview Expressway proposal seems good, obviously the Cross Island and Belt parkways would have to be upgraded.

I got rid of the Long Beach Expressway. I-778 is there because most of the vehicles that used the old West Side Elevated Highway were trucks going from New Jersey to New Jersey. Hardly anyone uses Amtrak, while the Cross Bronx Expressway is always bumper to bumper, so I think it's a good tradeoff to right Robert Moses' wrongs

The boldfaced is a demonstrably false statement in the very busy Northeast Corridor. Go look at the morning lineup in Boston or DC for the early Acela runs to New York or at Penn Station in the afternoon for the return trip (last time I was on the Acela this past January, the train was completely sold out, and that's not too unusual for the 5:00 southbound departure from NYP). I realize you claim to hate public transit, so I assume your comment is consistent with that, but if you dumped all the Amtrak riders in the Northeast Corridor onto the highways, you'd have a lot more traffic in the way.

Certainly in most of the rest of the country Amtrak is not competitive in the same way it is in the Northeast Corridor, which is unique for a host of reasons.

But the point is, we're not talking to someone who claims to be realistic. He has his agenda, summarized in the tagline below his avatar, and it appears from his comments that in his mind that agenda trumps all other considerations (pun completely intended).

I suggest we remove the worthless post-9/11 airport security procedures that have made every flight much longer from door to door.

[hotdogPi]

I suggest we remove the worthless post-9/11 airport security procedures that have made every flight much longer from door to door.

Before you start attacking kernals12 for this, I agree with him, as does vdeane:

In my case, it's not a fear of flying.  It's a complete and total unwillingness to deal with flight delays, lost luggage, being sandwiched between other people like sardines (honestly, I don't even like dealing with people in general who aren't friends or family), the inability to bring my shampoo/conditioner/contact lense solution/moisturizer/toothpaste, and the loss of dignity inherent in going though modern airport security.  Not to mention that all the fees the airlines charge so they can list an artificially deflated price that nobody pays are stupid.  Ironically, the cliche reason for not flying (being afraid of a crash) is the one and only part I'd be OK with.

Flying is an abysmal way to travel, and will be unless the system becomes much more reliable, the airlines become civilized, and the TSA is abolished; I'm not really sure why so many people put up with it.

I don't like the idea of flying either.  You get crammed in with annoying people like sardines, the airlines treat non-business travelers like crap, there's the possibility of lost luggage, and you have to endure the TSA's sexual harassment and humiliation, and can't take basic necessities like toothpaste, shampoo/conditioner, and contact lens solution with you.  No thanks.

[Roadgeekteen]

Not everywhere, but some places are (looking at you PA).

[seicer]

The Louisianan lives in a larger house, that has air conditioning, and he or she has a car. So yes.

https://spotlightonpoverty.org/states/west-virginia/

You've never traveled to any poor region of the United States nor have you been to any other country. As someone who has lived, worked, and volunteered in Appalachia most of my life: your argument is bullshit. Come to West Virginia and travel down to McDowell County, or Knott County in Kentucky, or any poor region and you'll find people living in one-room houses, fans (and NOT air conditioning), without cars (especially in urbanized areas). Tell them that they are lying.

While you are at it, go and see how many children receive free breakfast and lunch at schools. At many schools in West Virginia, that is a majority. Something is screwed up in our nation when we can't even adequately feed our children and they have to go to school just to receive proper nutrition.

But you are also the person who claims that Philly is widening Roosevelt Boulevard into a freeway and insists that nobody rides Amtrak.

[kernals12]

The Louisianan lives in a larger house, that has air conditioning, and he or she has a car. So yes.

https://spotlightonpoverty.org/states/west-virginia/

You've never traveled to any poor region of the United States nor have you been to any other country. As someone who has lived, worked, and volunteered in Appalachia most of my life: your argument is bullshit. Come to West Virginia and travel down to McDowell County, or Knott County in Kentucky, or any poor region and you'll find people living in one-room houses, fans (and NOT air conditioning), without cars (especially in urbanized areas). Tell them that they are lying.

While you are at it, go and see how many children receive free breakfast and lunch at schools. At many schools in West Virginia, that is a majority. Something is screwed up in our nation when we can't even adequately feed our children and they have to go to school just to receive proper nutrition.

But you are also the person who claims that Philly is widening Roosevelt Boulevard into a freeway and insists that nobody rides Amtrak.

That's not unique to the US.