Unpopular Route Opinions

[Flint1979]

I have used US-20 over the Ohio Turnpike and Indiana Toll Road several times. In fact I've used US-30 as well.

[interstatefan990]

Not to mention all of the local traffic that uses it daily.  Frankly it sounds like the guy has never driven such roads before.

Duh. Do you really think I would fly out all the way from New York, rent a car, and spend several hours driving on rural US Routes that I don't even want to go on, as I've already said in this discussion?

"All of the local traffic". Ha. I've already said to someone here that there are exceptions, local traffic included:

I'm referring to rural areas here, but granted, there are exceptions where US routes are preferable to an Interstate for reasons other than historic significance and scenery.

You guys should really pay more attention to what I'm saying. 

[kenarmy]

MS 25 deserves a US route number in MS more than 78, 278, 72, 51, 425 (lol), 11 do I really need to continue? Extend US 641 down TN 128 and that would align perfectly with 25 and boom. Then it could compete with its sibling

- Was minnesota and wyoming 59 supposed to be a US route?

[Alps]

for some reason US 46 is unpopular. it deserves to stay.

[kphoger]

And for the others, you also have to factor in speed limits, traffic, intersections, roadway design, and others. It's not just distance.

No, a roadgeek or traveling enthusiast factors all those things in.  The average driver looks at a map and finds the shortest route.  Generally, that means drawing a straight line and seeing which highways approximate that line.  Open up Google Maps, take a look at Reno and Grand Junction, and the most obvious route between the two is not I-80.  The most obvious route is US-50.

At least, that's what people did before sat-nav devices.

For example, driving from Reno to Grand Junction, Google Maps puts you on I-80 because you'd actually save 12 minutes by taking the interstate, assuming no other disruptions in your trip.

Yes, I know that.  But plenty of people want the route that uses the least amount of gas, even if it means a few extra minutes added to the drive.  Or they want the route that avoids going through a big city, even if it means a few extra minutes added to the drive.

And as for "assuming no other disruptions", you're a lot more likely to encounter traffic disruptions driving through SLC and Provo than you are driving through Ely and Salina.

And I can guarantee you non-tourists and non-roadgeeks are going to do whatever their GPS tells them, so I-80 is the preferred route for that trip.

Non-roadgeeks who actually have and use sat-nav to plan their route, perhaps.  But anyway, I'm not saying I-80 isn't the route most people would gravitate to.  I'm just saying it isn't the only good route between those two points, so plenty of people are going to take the US-50 option.

For Denver to Reno, it's pretty much the same situation. Assuming no other disruptions, you save a grand total of 3 minutes by not taking the interstate into Wyoming, as shown below. It goes back to my original point: are the safety risks of avoiding the interstate really worth it anyways?

Obviously, it isn't worth the supposed safety risks to you.  But that doesn't somehow mean most people agree with you.

Except with the US Route system, many roads are, for the most part, only used by drivers who are actively choosing to use that route over an alternative.

Not to mention all of the local traffic that uses it daily.  Frankly it sounds like the guy has never driven such roads before.

Duh. Do you really think I would fly out all the way from New York, rent a car, and spend several hours driving on rural US Routes that I don't even want to go on, as I've already said in this discussion?

If you've never been on such roads before, then why are you claiming to know what sort of traffic is using them?  Why are you claiming to understand the reasons they are driving on a particular road?

Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder if you've ever been driving anywhere outside your own little bubble of a world in New York.  It's hard for me to imagine someone having driven to any decent extent on this country's highways and thinking that most people on the road aren't just taking the shortest route from A to B because that's all they really care about.

"All of the local traffic". Ha. I've already said to someone here that there are exceptions, local traffic included:

I'm referring to rural areas here, but granted, there are exceptions where US routes are preferable to an Interstate for reasons other than historic significance and scenery.

You guys should really pay more attention to what I'm saying.

No, what we're saying is that those aren't exceptions.  They're the norm.  We're telling you that most of the traffic using US Routes do so for reasons other than historic significance or scenery.  We, who have actually driven these roads for work and/or pleasure, are telling you that your assumptions are inaccurate.  The great majority of drivers on all but a few highways are just driving to get somewhere, and they've determined that that particular highway is the best route to get them there.

I can think of very few exceptions to that general rule.  For example, US-6 over Loveland Pass in Colorado, as a scenic deviation around the Eisenhower—Johnson tunnels on I-70.

Heck, even when I drove part of old Route 66 in western Oklahoma and eastern Texas in 2019, none of the vehicles I saw were from out of state.  (At the restaurant where we stopped for lunch, there was one couple from Quebec who were doing a Route 66 vacation, but that was it.  I later passed them on I-40 somewhere west of McLean.)  All of the other drivers I saw appeared to be locals.

[US 89]

Regarding Grand Junction-Reno: in this case I would imagine the vast majority of traffic would want to use US 50 specifically because it avoids US 6. US 6 between I-70 and I-15 is fairly well known among locals and regular drivers as a high-traffic, relatively dangerous road that most people would rather not drive on if they can avoid it. Plus I can state from personal experience that Soldier Summit is not fun in the winter.

If your final destination is Salt Lake, 6 generally isn't bad enough to warrant detouring out to Salina to US 89 since that's quite a bit out of the way and will cost you about an hour. But the time difference if you're going to Reno is only five minutes. if you were to randomly survey people in Grand Junction or Salt Lake whether they're okay with losing 5 minutes if they don't have to take 6, I bet you 90% of respondents would say yes.

All 2-lane roads are not equal. Traffic counts on that part of US 6 in Utah are over 10-15 times higher than they are on much of US 50. There's a reason it's called the Loneliest Road.

[interstatefan990]

At least, that's what people did before sat-nav devices.

Well, it's 2021. We use sat-nav now. The most "obvious" route isn't always the best one to take, and thankfully today we have technology that can find us the best route to take.

Yes, I know that.  But plenty of people want the route that uses the least amount of gas, even if it means a few extra minutes added to the drive.  Or they want the route that avoids going through a big city, even if it means a few extra minutes added to the drive.

And as for "assuming no other disruptions", you're a lot more likely to encounter traffic disruptions driving through SLC and Provo than you are driving through Ely and Salina.

Google Maps takes real-time traffic into account. And I can't assume what people want, but you can? How do you know who wants to use the least gas vs who just wants to get there as soon as possible?

Non-roadgeeks who actually have and use sat-nav to plan their route, perhaps.  But anyway, I'm not saying I-80 isn't the route most people would gravitate to.  I'm just saying it isn't the only good route between those two points, so plenty of people are going to take the US-50 option.

Wait a minute. Now things have changed? First it's "most people on US routes aren't choosing that route" + "most people would gravitate to I-80" and now it's "plenty of people will take US 50 over I-80"?

Obviously, it isn't worth the supposed safety risks to you.  But that doesn't somehow mean most people agree with you.

That's why this topic is called unpopular opinions. And this is a forum. People disagree. Perfect example: whatever this is right here.

If you've never been on such roads before, then why are you claiming to know what sort of traffic is using them?  Why are you claiming to understand the reasons they are driving on a particular road?

Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder if you've ever been driving anywhere outside your own little bubble of a world in New York.  It's hard for me to imagine someone having driven to any decent extent on this country's highways and thinking that most people on the road aren't just taking the shortest route from A to B because that's all they really care about.

I said "many US routes". That could mean as few as 6 or 7. I never said it was the entire system. As we have seen, most people follow mapping applications, and those mapping applications will put you on interstates and save you time, even with a 50-mile difference over a US Route. I'm not claiming to know what sort of traffic is using them. I simply made a prediction about some of the loneliest highways in this country considering how desolate they are, and some of the roads you mentioned, all based on some known facts and data from Google Maps as well. The truth is, not everyone is as fortunate as you are to have had the time and money to go around exploring all of America's great roads. I have clinched/driven a lot of the roads that are within a reasonable distance of me, as I'm sure is the case with several on this forum. For those I have not driven, I am exploring them from home until I can drive them, which I am perfectly fine with.

No, what we're saying is that those aren't exceptions.  They're the norm.

Norm, schnorm, exceptions, blah blah blah. When you're referring to rural, barren, and desolate roads, which is what I was originally discussing, the difference is small enough that it basically means the same thing. Also, "we"?

This discussion has become pointless, and frankly, it's getting stupid. It was absolutely wonderful talking to you, but I'm leaving this alone for now. So long!

[kphoger]

Non-roadgeeks who actually have and use sat-nav to plan their route, perhaps.  But anyway, I'm not saying I-80 isn't the route most people would gravitate to.  I'm just saying it isn't the only good route between those two points, so plenty of people are going to take the US-50 option.

Wait a minute. Now things have changed? First it's "most people on US routes aren't choosing that route" + "most people would gravitate to I-80" and now it's "plenty of people will take US 50 over I-80"?

Those aren't mutually exclusive.  And the reason they aren't is that most people on a particular route aren't long-distance, cross-country travelers.  Most people aren't specifically choosing one route over another.  Meanwhile, most but by no means all long-distance travelers would gravitate toward Interstates.

That's why this topic is called unpopular opinions. And this is a forum. People disagree. Perfect example: whatever this is right here.

I've got no problem with your opinion that using US routes isn't worth the risks.  Have your opinion all you want, and that's perfectly fine.  But you also claimed that "with the US Route system, many roads are, for the most part, only used by drivers who are actively choosing to use that route over an alternative".  That is what I am disputing.  It isn't merely your opinion about something.  It's something you're stating as a fact.

I said "many US routes". That could mean as few as 6 or 7. I never said it was the entire system.

In a system with nearly 200 routes (did I count right?), 6 or 7 is not "many".  But that's why I asked you about specific routes.

I'm not claiming to know what sort of traffic is using them.

Yes you are.  You said that many are "only used by drivers who are actively choosing to use that route over an alternative".

The truth is, not everyone is as fortunate as you are to have had the time and money to go around exploring all of America's great roads. I have clinched/driven a lot of the roads that are within a reasonable distance of me, as I'm sure is the case with several on this forum. For those I have not driven, I am exploring them from home until I can drive them, which I am perfectly fine with.

But those who have not had the good fortune to explore this country's great roads should not purport to say what sort of traffic uses said roads.

I haven't had the good fortune to explore the autostrade of Italy, which is why I wouldn't claim to know what sort of traffic uses them.  I haven't had the good fortune to explore the highways of New York state, which is why I can't claim to know what sort of traffic uses various ones there.  But I have had the good fortune to explore a decent number of "rural, desolate US Routes", which is what you specifically said you were referring to.  Heck, I grew up one mile from a rural, desolate US Route:  US-36 in Rawlins County, KS, with AADT counts below 1500.

No, what we're saying is that those aren't exceptions.  They're the norm.

Norm, schnorm, exceptions, blah blah blah. When you're referring to rural, barren, and desolate roads, which is what I was originally discussing, the difference is small enough that it basically means the same thing.

So now your defense is that, for the highways you have in mind, "the norm" and "the exception" mean the same thing?  With that mindset, don't be surprised to find an argument to follow.

[Flint1979]

Hell yes I'll take the US highway every time if it's going to save me like 50 miles but is only like 3-4 minutes longer. I'll make that time up anyway so the saved mileage is going to make it worth it.

It's like the best way to get down to I-69 WB/SB from Saginaw is to take M-13 not I-75. Now I-69 EB/NB it would be take I-75 to I-475. This doesn't involve a US highway but it makes a point that a two lane rural route is sometimes better.

[tq-07fan]

I don't think everyone has to be Roadgeek to have the desire to explore alternate routes and to try and find something better than what the Google Map suggests. I have found times where Google Maps gives it's suggestions then to move the blue lines around a bit and have it calculate that my idea was actually faster then it's idea, or at least in theory. I do believe Google Maps then learns from this and uses it for later (not scary at all, right?). Of course there are people who will drive the same Interstate between two known points infinitum. I also know there are people who are interested in new or alternate routes in particular if they drive between the two points with any regularity. Of course you get two people together who have been between the same two places, and they can show each other their way. Case in point, going to Pittsburgh from Cincinnati I take I-70 to OH 7 to US 22, because it was the way Greyhound went on the all stops bus I rode several times in the 1990's. In reality it is only a matter of minutes difference depending upon what part of the 'burgh you are going to. I showed my friend my way on one trip and he loved it. Of course it is all divided highway but OH 7 is at grade in places.

I am rather surprised by the fear from some commenting here about driving on two lane US and state highways. I didn't have a car until my twenties but had my licenses at 16. I did a lot of driving with my Grandma who lived in rural south central Ohio so I got accustomed to driving hilly two lane state and US routes early. I drive a city bus and have been for almost twenty years so I don't like driving for prolonged distances all on the Interstate. I get off and use a US or state route just to take a break for a while but still be making forward progress. I also still use paper maps, outside of finding specific addresses or specific food places in new cities, so I use the straight line method. Anyways I like, well really love US and state routes! I would guess I am not alone.

Jim

[kenarmy]

^ I agree with this. Doesn't driving on interstates get exhausting or boring (especially on trips)? Even though an interstate is slightly faster, I prefer using short cuts to get between interstates. For instance, using the natchez trace to go out west instead of going from 55 straight to 20.

[interstatefan990]

^^These are totally valid. I too am accustomed to two lane highways, as you have to use them to get to many places here in New York, even if part of your traveling involves a freeway. My thinking just differs when it comes to picking one route over another when you have multiple options. Personally I usually opt to take an interstate or parkway to avoid the statutory 55 MPH undivided roads that are common here, but I'd gladly take those instead if it simply makes more sense or if I'm looking for something more engaging, which, now that I think about it, happens fairly often.

Seriously though, all this disagreement with what I said about certain US Routes and two laners just proves even further that my opinion truly is unpopular. That's precisely what this thread was asking for. So I don't know about you, but I'm gonna put this one down as a success! 

[Flint1979]

This is my view of Interstate's. Yes they are a faster route but I get bored of the Interstate rather quickly at times. It's a lot more interesting to take an alternate route that wouldn't be as fast but would be a lot more enjoyable. I'm sick of I-75 between Detroit and Saginaw, I know every curve on the highway, I know every overpass and every exit on that stretch of I-75.

[Avalanchez71]

This is my view of Interstate's. Yes they are a faster route but I get bored of the Interstate rather quickly at times. It's a lot more interesting to take an alternate route that wouldn't be as fast but would be a lot more enjoyable. I'm sick of I-75 between Detroit and Saginaw, I know every curve on the highway, I know every overpass and every exit on that stretch of I-75.

It is utterly amazing on occasion that the parallel US route to an Interstate can be so much more interesting on stretches of Interstate. 

[SkyPesos]

This is my view of Interstate's. Yes they are a faster route but I get bored of the Interstate rather quickly at times. It's a lot more interesting to take an alternate route that wouldn't be as fast but would be a lot more enjoyable. I'm sick of I-75 between Detroit and Saginaw, I know every curve on the highway, I know every overpass and every exit on that stretch of I-75.

Meanwhile I'm here bored with I-71 from Cincy to Columbus. I did I-75/675/70 once, actually didn't take that much longer and it's mostly 6+ lanes the entire way through after upgrades on I-70. I also did US 42 once, there's a small expressway section between OH 73 and Xenia, which is nice.

[roadman65]

Sometimes the US highways are better, but worth planning an extra day to use. US 98 over I-10 in Florida is much nicer to drive than the boring I-10 is a prime example.

Then you have shortcuts that are better like from I-287 northbound in NJ to I-80 westbound. If you are in a Central Jersey it's shorter to cut off on US 206 at Bedminster than to ride up to the proper meeting place of the two.  However when Chester has its flea market it is the same time between the two as the market stops traffic on US 206 in Chester to allow patrons to get in and out.

Is all a gamble and up to the time of day for some areas of travel.

[SEWIGuy]

It really depends on the time I have.  I used to take a business trip to Memphis every year from southern Wisconsin.

If I had time, usually in a rush to get down there, I would take I-39 and I-55.  But when I had time for a day and a half drive back , I took US-51 and IL-251 back.  So much more to see.

[kphoger]

I don't think everyone has to be Roadgeek to have the desire to explore alternate routes and to try and find something better than what the Google Map suggests.

I was thinking about this last night.

Besides, though...  So what if people do pick a certain highway because of its historical significance or its scenery or whatever?  Does that mean they're somehow wrong, that the route they choose shouldn't be designated as a US Route?  Even if a lot of the traffic on US-91 between Logan and Pocatello is avoiding the Interstate route because of roadgeek-y reasons, then that's really no reason to dispute the highway's status as a US Route:  people use it to get from place to place, and I don't see how their reasoning really matters all that much.

[kphoger]

Seriously though, all this disagreement with what I said about certain US Routes and two laners just proves even further that my opinion truly is unpopular. That's precisely what this thread was asking for. So I don't know about you, but I'm gonna put this one down as a success! 

Well, what the heck?  Eight years ago, this would have ended up in a flame war, with profanity and locked threads and purple text.  People sure do seem to be getting along better on the forum these days.  Thank you for taking our banter in stride.

[interstatefan990]

Seriously though, all this disagreement with what I said about certain US Routes and two laners just proves even further that my opinion truly is unpopular. That's precisely what this thread was asking for. So I don't know about you, but I'm gonna put this one down as a success! 

Well, what the heck?  Eight years ago, this would have ended up in a flame war, with profanity and locked threads and purple text.  People sure do seem to be getting along better on the forum these days.  Thank you for taking our banter in stride.

No problem! I'd rather go home with my honor intact than be sore about everything.

[sturmde]

Okay, here's one better beyond a US Route option, how about a state route option?  Going from Dayton, O. to Peoria, Ill. one has Indianapolis in the way to get from I-70 to I-74.  So, my favorite route is to go north on I-465, then I-865 to I-65 and head over to I-74 using IN 32.
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GoogleMaps claims it's the same time as its routing... but it assumes IN 32 is a slowpoke 2 lane.  It's usually traffic-free and almost like a Super 2.
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Another example... heading north on I-75 from Atlanta to Knoxville.  It's ten miles shorter to go from Dalton GA to Cleveland TN using Georgia SR 71 and Tennessee SPR 60.  And it avoids a lot of Chattanooga nonsense.
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Of course, the classic US choice is in West Virginia when heading from Charlotte NC to Pittsburgh PA.  I-77 to Beckley and then US 19 to I-79.  Why go through Charleston?  (Plus, the BRIDGE on US 19 is a wonder of the world, right?)

[SkyPesos]

Okay, here's one better beyond a US Route option, how about a state route option?  Going from Dayton, O. to Peoria, Ill. one has Indianapolis in the way to get from I-70 to I-74.  So, my favorite route is to go north on I-465, then I-865 to I-65 and head over to I-74 using IN 32.
.
GoogleMaps claims it's the same time as its routing... but it assumes IN 32 is a slowpoke 2 lane.  It's usually traffic-free and almost like a Super 2.
.
Another example... heading north on I-75 from Atlanta to Knoxville.  It's ten miles shorter to go from Dalton GA to Cleveland TN using Georgia SR 71 and Tennessee SPR 60.  And it avoids a lot of Chattanooga nonsense.
.
Of course, the classic US choice is in West Virginia when heading from Charlotte NC to Pittsburgh PA.  I-77 to Beckley and then US 19 to I-79.  Why go through Charleston?  (Plus, the BRIDGE on US 19 is a wonder of the world, right?)

There are a couple of places where an expressway state route is used over a parallel 2 lane US route for long distance travel. IN 63 and OH 32 are the first two examples that came to my mind.

[kphoger]

The 'best route' that Google usually suggests for getting to Springfield or Branson from Wichita includes about 30 miles of shoulder-less secondary state routes in Missouri (the lettered ones).  And it isn't wrong, either:  my usual route is almost exactly the same as the one suggested, although I typically use a shoulder-less primary state route for part of it instead.  But, oh my! one can only wonder how many car-towing RV drivers have been unpleasantly surprised to find themselves head-to-head with a local trucker somewhere like here or a combine somewhere like here.

[webny99]

Well, what the heck?  Eight years ago, this would have ended up in a flame war, with profanity and locked threads and purple text.  People sure do seem to be getting along better on the forum these days.  Thank you for taking our banter in stride.

For me, this forum has been respite during an unusual time that's been lacking in real-world roadgeek experiences, and I imagine that might be the case for others as well.

[hbelkins]

Another example... heading north on I-75 from Atlanta to Knoxville.  It's ten miles shorter to go from Dalton GA to Cleveland TN using Georgia SR 71 and Tennessee SPR 60.  And it avoids a lot of Chattanooga nonsense.

I'm no fan of I-75 in general. Last couple of times I've been in the area, I've used US 411 north from I-75. The only problem with it is that there are a lot of underposted four- and five-lane sections in Tennessee that ought to be 55 (or higher) but are 45 or 35.

And if I'm going to Dayton, I'll cross the river at Maysville and take US 68 north to the Wilmington area and then make my way over to I-75, especially if I'm going to get caught up in rush hour traffic in Cincinnati. I've never understood why northbound traffic stacks up so bad near the Lateral and Paddock.