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Author Topic: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions  (Read 7184 times)

HighwayStar

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #325 on: April 05, 2021, 08:47:04 PM »


Roundabouts are difficult because its never clear if you have the right of way or not.

No, it's always clear. Vehicles in the circle have the right of way and drivers approaching the circle must yield.

Yeah but good luck deciding when a vehicle is going to be in the circle or not. Is the car coming going to exit or is it going to continue? In a world where people actually did what they were supposed to, used blinkers, etc. it would be fine, but in practice they are usually an accident waiting to happen.
C知on...roundabouts are about as simple as you can get.  Yield to traffic from the left (or from the right in Commonwealth countries).  Why make it seem so difficult?

Yes, but that "traffic" is coming aground an (often) blind corner and may or may not turn, so it is difficult to say if it will be there or not.

How is that any different than a standard intersection?  If I'm turning right at an intersection, I don't know if the approaching vehicle already on that road will turn so I wait until it turns or goes past me.  Even with its blinker on, I usually wait.  Too many idiots driving for miles oblivious to their blinkers being on.

Invalid comparison. Right on red is not a requirement, you will get a green eventually, you do not have to turn with a red light, whereas you MUST turn eventually with a roundabout. And most intersections give you much more view than a roundabout does.
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vdeane

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #326 on: April 05, 2021, 09:09:49 PM »


Roundabouts are difficult because its never clear if you have the right of way or not.

No, it's always clear. Vehicles in the circle have the right of way and drivers approaching the circle must yield.

Yeah but good luck deciding when a vehicle is going to be in the circle or not. Is the car coming going to exit or is it going to continue? In a world where people actually did what they were supposed to, used blinkers, etc. it would be fine, but in practice they are usually an accident waiting to happen.
C知on...roundabouts are about as simple as you can get.  Yield to traffic from the left (or from the right in Commonwealth countries).  Why make it seem so difficult?

Yes, but that "traffic" is coming aground an (often) blind corner and may or may not turn, so it is difficult to say if it will be there or not.
If they're far enough away that you'd have to wait any significant time to find out which way they're going, they're far enough away that a driver who accelerates at a reasonable speed should be well on their way before it matters which way the other car is going.


Roundabouts are difficult because its never clear if you have the right of way or not.

No, it's always clear. Vehicles in the circle have the right of way and drivers approaching the circle must yield.

Yeah but good luck deciding when a vehicle is going to be in the circle or not. Is the car coming going to exit or is it going to continue? In a world where people actually did what they were supposed to, used blinkers, etc. it would be fine, but in practice they are usually an accident waiting to happen.
C知on...roundabouts are about as simple as you can get.  Yield to traffic from the left (or from the right in Commonwealth countries).  Why make it seem so difficult?

Yes, but that "traffic" is coming aground an (often) blind corner and may or may not turn, so it is difficult to say if it will be there or not.

How is that any different than a standard intersection?  If I'm turning right at an intersection, I don't know if the approaching vehicle already on that road will turn so I wait until it turns or goes past me.  Even with its blinker on, I usually wait.  Too many idiots driving for miles oblivious to their blinkers being on.

Invalid comparison. Right on red is not a requirement, you will get a green eventually, you do not have to turn with a red light, whereas you MUST turn eventually with a roundabout. And most intersections give you much more view than a roundabout does.
He didn't say anything about a traffic light.  This kind of thing can happen at ANY intersection, including uncontrolled driveways from businesses onto a major road.
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HighwayStar

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #327 on: April 05, 2021, 09:12:20 PM »


Roundabouts are difficult because its never clear if you have the right of way or not.

No, it's always clear. Vehicles in the circle have the right of way and drivers approaching the circle must yield.

Yeah but good luck deciding when a vehicle is going to be in the circle or not. Is the car coming going to exit or is it going to continue? In a world where people actually did what they were supposed to, used blinkers, etc. it would be fine, but in practice they are usually an accident waiting to happen.
C知on...roundabouts are about as simple as you can get.  Yield to traffic from the left (or from the right in Commonwealth countries).  Why make it seem so difficult?

Yes, but that "traffic" is coming aground an (often) blind corner and may or may not turn, so it is difficult to say if it will be there or not.
If they're far enough away that you'd have to wait any significant time to find out which way they're going, they're far enough away that a driver who accelerates at a reasonable speed should be well on their way before it matters which way the other car is going.


Roundabouts are difficult because its never clear if you have the right of way or not.

No, it's always clear. Vehicles in the circle have the right of way and drivers approaching the circle must yield.

Yeah but good luck deciding when a vehicle is going to be in the circle or not. Is the car coming going to exit or is it going to continue? In a world where people actually did what they were supposed to, used blinkers, etc. it would be fine, but in practice they are usually an accident waiting to happen.
C知on...roundabouts are about as simple as you can get.  Yield to traffic from the left (or from the right in Commonwealth countries).  Why make it seem so difficult?

Yes, but that "traffic" is coming aground an (often) blind corner and may or may not turn, so it is difficult to say if it will be there or not.

How is that any different than a standard intersection?  If I'm turning right at an intersection, I don't know if the approaching vehicle already on that road will turn so I wait until it turns or goes past me.  Even with its blinker on, I usually wait.  Too many idiots driving for miles oblivious to their blinkers being on.

Invalid comparison. Right on red is not a requirement, you will get a green eventually, you do not have to turn with a red light, whereas you MUST turn eventually with a roundabout. And most intersections give you much more view than a roundabout does.
He didn't say anything about a traffic light.  This kind of thing can happen at ANY intersection, including uncontrolled driveways from businesses onto a major road.

It does not matter. Any intersection without a traffic light should be sufficiently low traffic for that to not be an issue. And in any case the line of sight is better without the roundabout.
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vdeane

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #328 on: April 05, 2021, 09:16:46 PM »

If you've never had that happen to you at an intersection without a traffic light, I'm honestly starting to question if you've ever operated a motor vehicle.  And line of sight shouldn't be much of an issue given the low-speed nature of the roundabout.  Are you the type of person who drives like 0-60 in anything less than a full minute is ludicrously fast?

Take this intersection.  I deal with it all the time.  Often, I have to wait for someone with their blinker on, not sure where they will turn (there are a LOT of business driveways here) or even if they will.  Often there will be a line of cars behind them.  Do I get to go eventually?  Yes, and usually without more than one car behind me.  But the point is, I could have gone sooner if I knew exactly where/if that car was going to turn, and this wasn't a signalized intersection or a roundabout (nor should it be).
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 09:32:03 PM by vdeane »
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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #329 on: April 05, 2021, 11:17:04 PM »

Interstate shields without state names are better than those with.

State shape-outline shields are bad.

There are no boring roads, at lease with respect to scenery and being 努orth it to drive on.

That said, two-lane roads are annoying if, for whatever reason, you have to wait more than a minute or so to pass.

Complex urban freeways are good, when traffic is flowing.

When the car in front of you turns or exits at the same place as you is bad.

Most control cities are too small or otherwise insufficiently well known.

Control states are fine, at least under certain conditions.

Higher digits should be used more often in 3di痴, especially to reduce repetition. For example, there are eight 295痴, but only one 895.

You should not be able to turn at a red arrow.

Google Maps needs a legend, somewhere.

Adaptive cruise control is bad, unless there痴 some way to keep it from following my rear bumper for twenty or so miles.

Some of the ways exits are laid out along or near frontage roads in Texas are bad.

Tolled routes and crossings are bad.

Listening to music while driving is bad.

Cable-stayed bridges are okay.

Rural illuminated highways are bad.

Front license plates are good. Or at least, the aesthetic impact of the plate is an insufficient justification for its absence.

Speed cameras on freeways are bad.

Red light cameras, however, aren稚 inherently bad, but you should get about a second of leeway after the light turns red, to make up for any edge cases.

When turning onto a road with more than one lane, you can turn into whatever lane you want.

Exit Only indications are not needed on APL signs.


Oh, and one more thing: I don't like when people say "amber" instead of "yellow" when referring to the color of road signs, pavement markings, and lights. Luckily for me, at least at this time, the MUTCD agrees with me.
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RobbieL2415

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #330 on: April 06, 2021, 11:33:53 AM »

Switch to dual-aspect signals.

For example:

Double solid red: stop and remain stopped
Flashing red over solid red: Stop and proceed only when intersection clear.

Flashing yellow over solid red: proceed towards signal with caution, prepare for next signal to show solid yellow over solid red
Solid yellow over solid red: slow down and stop, next signal phase double red.
Alternating flashing yellow: proceed with caution

Green arrow(s) over solid red: proceed in indicated direction, all other traffic stop and remain stopped
Yellow arrow(s) over solid red: slow down and stop or prepare to give way in indicated direction, all other traffic stop and remain stopped
Flashing red arrow(s) over solid red: stop and proceed in indicated direction, all other traffic stop and remain stopped

Solid green over solid green, flashing green over solid green: proceed, give way if turning
Solid green arrow over solid green: proceed in indicated direction, all other traffic proceed
Flashing yellow arrow over solid green: give way in indicated direction, all other traffic proceed

Dark over flashing blue: special signal, proceed unless phase changes

Alternating flashing orange: Work zone active




People struggle with roundabouts, and you are making this suggestion?
Yes. Yes, indeed.
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kphoger

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #331 on: April 06, 2021, 03:55:46 PM »

Didn't this forum already beat a similar issue to death with regards to flashing yellow arrows?  What I mean is, the flashing circular yellow (beacon) traditionally meant "proceed with caution but watch out for potential hazard," but the flashing yellow arrow means "turn permitted but yield right-of-way."  The thing that bothered people was that it changed the meaning of a flashing yellow light.

Beacon = Traffic is being told to use caution.

FYA = Left-turning traffic is being told to use caution.

1. Dark = stop for every other signal.

Railroad crossing signals:  Dark = don't stop.
HAWK signals:  Dark = don't stop.

Neither one uses a standard RYG, so confusion doesn't really exist in either case.

2. Drivers don't seem to understand that you can go after the red starts flashing.

If we used a RYG signal instead of a HAWK but introduced a flashing red phase, then the same misunderstanding would likely still exist.
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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #332 on: April 06, 2021, 04:42:16 PM »

Didn't this forum already beat a similar issue to death with regards to flashing yellow arrows?  What I mean is, the flashing circular yellow (beacon) traditionally meant "proceed with caution but watch out for potential hazard," but the flashing yellow arrow means "turn permitted but yield right-of-way."  The thing that bothered people was that it changed the meaning of a flashing yellow light.

Beacon = Traffic is being told to use caution.

FYA = Left-turning traffic is being told to use caution.

With a beacon, you have the right of way if going straight. That said, turning on a flashing yellow requires yielding whether it痴 an arrow or not, so it痴 not a new meaning.
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kphoger

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #333 on: April 06, 2021, 04:51:58 PM »

With a beacon, you have the right of way if going straight.

Not if that beacon is above a crosswalk.   :-P
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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #334 on: April 06, 2021, 06:17:22 PM »

If you've never had that happen to you at an intersection without a traffic light, I'm honestly starting to question if you've ever operated a motor vehicle.  And line of sight shouldn't be much of an issue given the low-speed nature of the roundabout.  Are you the type of person who drives like 0-60 in anything less than a full minute is ludicrously fast?

Take this intersection.  I deal with it all the time.  Often, I have to wait for someone with their blinker on, not sure where they will turn (there are a LOT of business driveways here) or even if they will.  Often there will be a line of cars behind them.  Do I get to go eventually?  Yes, and usually without more than one car behind me.  But the point is, I could have gone sooner if I knew exactly where/if that car was going to turn, and this wasn't a signalized intersection or a roundabout (nor should it be).

Basic defensive driving dictates that you should never pull out based on a driver's turn signal until you actually see the vehicle beginning to turn into the side road. And if you were to pull out in front of a vehicle based on a turn signal, even if there were no other side roads around, you would be found fully at fault or mostly at fault by insurance. I never rely on turn signals when I drive and I have never run into an issue.
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jamess

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #335 on: April 06, 2021, 06:50:39 PM »

"School Zone When Children Are Present" is dumb

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hbelkins

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #336 on: April 06, 2021, 08:24:27 PM »


Roundabouts are difficult because its never clear if you have the right of way or not.

No, it's always clear. Vehicles in the circle have the right of way and drivers approaching the circle must yield.

Yeah but good luck deciding when a vehicle is going to be in the circle or not. Is the car coming going to exit or is it going to continue? In a world where people actually did what they were supposed to, used blinkers, etc. it would be fine, but in practice they are usually an accident waiting to happen.

I actually almost sorta agree with you here, to a point. My beef with roundabouts is that if they're busy, it may take awhile before you can enter the circle. Different people have different points at which they're comfortable pulling out into traffic. I tend to be more cautious and will wait to, for instance, turn left on a green ball/FYA, or turn right from a stop sign onto a through route. And different vehicles tend to accelerate faster than others. And if I don't pull into the roundabout fast enough to suit the guy behind me, who may have made a different safety judgment as to when it was OK to try to enter the circle, he gets frustrated or mad.

It's why I prefer a signal or even an all-way stop to a roundabout. You know you'll eventually get your turn to enter/pass through the intersection. I think that's why roundabouts are touted more as safety improvements than as traffic flow improvements.
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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #337 on: April 06, 2021, 10:47:53 PM »

Exit services need to say how far off the exit before you get off the exit.

SM-G950U



If this is referring to the businesses indicated on "logo" signs (Specific Service signs), they're only supposed to be a certain maximum distance from the exit, and some states, when those signs are full, priority is given to the businesses nearer to the exit.
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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #338 on: April 07, 2021, 09:14:02 AM »

"School Zone When Children Are Present" is dumb


Why?
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jamess

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #339 on: April 07, 2021, 04:20:52 PM »

"School Zone When Children Are Present" is dumb


Why?

Asking a driver to determine if an individual is or is not a child, and if their location counts or doesnt count as "present" is not good policy.

Especially where the regular speed limit is 45mph and the school speed limit is 25mph.
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kphoger

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #340 on: April 07, 2021, 04:39:27 PM »



"School Zone When Children Are Present" is dumb

Why?

Asking a driver to determine if an individual is or is not a child, and if their location counts or doesnt count as "present" is not good policy.

Especially where the regular speed limit is 45mph and the school speed limit is 25mph.

You make a good point.

Even worse is "on school days when children are present".  Am I supposed to keep track of the school schedule now, too?
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jamess

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #341 on: April 07, 2021, 05:39:21 PM »



"School Zone When Children Are Present" is dumb

Why?

Asking a driver to determine if an individual is or is not a child, and if their location counts or doesnt count as "present" is not good policy.

Especially where the regular speed limit is 45mph and the school speed limit is 25mph.

You make a good point.

Even worse is "on school days when children are present".  Am I supposed to keep track of the school schedule now, too?

On that note, parking areas which are "9am to 6pm - 10pm on event days" is just as useless. Am I supposed to memorize the Opera schedule...?
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interstatefan990

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #342 on: April 07, 2021, 06:18:04 PM »

"School Zone When Children Are Present" is dumb


Why?

Asking a driver to determine if an individual is or is not a child, and if their location counts or doesnt count as "present" is not good policy.

Especially where the regular speed limit is 45mph and the school speed limit is 25mph.

Even worse, when a school speed limit sign has "higher fines" and "when flashing" on the same sign post and you can't tell whether the school speed limit is always in effect or if higher fines are always in effect.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #343 on: April 07, 2021, 07:51:27 PM »

"School Zone When Children Are Present" is dumb


Why?

Asking a driver to determine if an individual is or is not a child, and if their location counts or doesnt count as "present" is not good policy.

Especially where the regular speed limit is 45mph and the school speed limit is 25mph.


I think it pretty much means that this major street is a school zone when you see kids around. Honestly I have never seen such signs as problematic.
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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #344 on: April 07, 2021, 07:57:22 PM »

"School Zone When Children Are Present" is dumb


Why?

Asking a driver to determine if an individual is or is not a child, and if their location counts or doesnt count as "present" is not good policy.

Especially where the regular speed limit is 45mph and the school speed limit is 25mph.


I think it pretty much means that this major street is a school zone when you see kids around. Honestly I have never seen such signs as problematic.

I've learned that NJ treats these signs as "30 minutes before school starts, 30 minutes after school ends, and during recess".  It's very vague, no one knows when those times actually are, and it doesn't appear kids actually have to be in the area.

That said, it doesn't appear most NJ towns are very forceful of the school speed limits.  If you're going 50 in a 40, when the school limit is 30 mph, and you get stopped, maybe the best you can hope for is a ticket for 10 over rather than 20 over since you were speeding anyway.
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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #345 on: April 07, 2021, 10:00:32 PM »

"School Zone When Children Are Present" is dumb


Why?

Asking a driver to determine if an individual is or is not a child, and if their location counts or doesnt count as "present" is not good policy.

Especially where the regular speed limit is 45mph and the school speed limit is 25mph.


I think it pretty much means that this major street is a school zone when you see kids around. Honestly I have never seen such signs as problematic.

I've learned that NJ treats these signs as "30 minutes before school starts, 30 minutes after school ends, and during recess".  It's very vague, no one knows when those times actually are, and it doesn't appear kids actually have to be in the area.

That said, it doesn't appear most NJ towns are very forceful of the school speed limits.  If you're going 50 in a 40, when the school limit is 30 mph, and you get stopped, maybe the best you can hope for is a ticket for 10 over rather than 20 over since you were speeding anyway.

I suspect a fair number of states use something like that. Night is usually defined as one half hour after sunset to one half hour prior to sunrise for example.
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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #346 on: April 08, 2021, 01:16:02 AM »



"School Zone When Children Are Present" is dumb

Why?

Asking a driver to determine if an individual is or is not a child, and if their location counts or doesnt count as "present" is not good policy.

Especially where the regular speed limit is 45mph and the school speed limit is 25mph.

You make a good point.

Even worse is "on school days when children are present".  Am I supposed to keep track of the school schedule now, too?

and when they don't turn them off for holidays or during the summer :P
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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #347 on: April 08, 2021, 08:45:44 AM »



"School Zone When Children Are Present" is dumb

Why?

Asking a driver to determine if an individual is or is not a child, and if their location counts or doesnt count as "present" is not good policy.

Especially where the regular speed limit is 45mph and the school speed limit is 25mph.

You make a good point.

Even worse is "on school days when children are present".  Am I supposed to keep track of the school schedule now, too?

and when they don't turn them off for holidays or during the summer :P

And when there's a two hour delay and the lights don't adjust times. Infuriating during normal hours, great during two hour delay hours.
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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #348 on: April 08, 2021, 09:31:07 AM »



"School Zone When Children Are Present" is dumb

Why?

Asking a driver to determine if an individual is or is not a child, and if their location counts or doesnt count as "present" is not good policy.

Especially where the regular speed limit is 45mph and the school speed limit is 25mph.

You make a good point.

Even worse is "on school days when children are present".  Am I supposed to keep track of the school schedule now, too?

and when they don't turn them off for holidays or during the summer :P

And when there's a two hour delay and the lights don't adjust times. Infuriating during normal hours, great during two hour delay hours.


But its doubtful that police are enforcing it then anyway.

This seems to be a complaint more about someone's sense of order more than about a legit driving issue.
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Re: Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions
« Reply #349 on: April 08, 2021, 10:57:15 AM »

I think it pretty much means that this major street is a school zone when you see kids around. Honestly I have never seen such signs as problematic.

But its doubtful that police are enforcing it then anyway.

Imagine that the speed limit is 40 mph, with "SCHOOL / 20 MPH / WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT".
There's a birthday party at the school playground, maybe school-sponsored, maybe not, you don't know.
Or there's a spelling bee, with kids and teachers and parents leaving the school at 7:45 pm.
Or track practice is over, and runners are leaving the locker room at 5:30 pm.
Or there's a citywide student event at the school on a Saturday morning.

Which of those cases count as "children are present" and which ones don't?  Because, if a police officer clocks you going 49 mph, are you getting a 9mph speeding ticket that won't get reported to your insurance, or are you getting a 29mph speeding ticket that has you showing up at a courthouse?
Logged
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

 


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