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Author Topic: Freeways that aren't really a freeway  (Read 4497 times)

tolbs17

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Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« on: July 22, 2021, 07:08:52 PM »

There's a share the road sign here I wish there was a sidewalk and a bike lane so they could remove that.

This has no cable barrier so therefore this is not really a freeway. The speed limit is not even 65 or 70.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.406575,-76.9285779,3a,75y,299h,85.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdl6YewlOzVkt9LkRcVcwNA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.406575,-76.9285779,3a,75y,210.94h,76.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdl6YewlOzVkt9LkRcVcwNA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

You have a side street and an extremely small median as well.

Wonder why they have a side street here!
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silverback1065

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2021, 07:15:36 PM »

There are several interstates that lack cable barriers.
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tolbs17

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2021, 07:17:02 PM »

There are several interstates that lack cable barriers.
If the median is large enough then it's usually not a big deal.

Example
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SkyPesos

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2021, 07:18:14 PM »

A definition of a freeway is simply a fully controlled access highway. Nothing about which size the median is, and what the median is made of.

So for some real examples in this thread, something that Google maps marks as a freeway, but you find an at grade interchange in that freeway section, could qualify.
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tolbs17

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2021, 07:21:16 PM »

A definition of a freeway is simply a fully controlled access highway. Nothing about which size the median is, and what the median is made of.

So for some real examples in this thread, something that Google maps marks as a freeway, but you find an at grade interchange in that freeway section, could qualify.
See OpenStreetMaps which lists a lot of major arterials as a freeway like here, and here.
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sprjus4

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2021, 07:41:10 PM »

^ The Goldsboro example… I’d say the original bypass is enough to be called a freeway. It has a couple RIROs, but they never break the median. More like a substandard off and on ramp than anything.

As for the CBBT… it could technically be considered a freeway, but I can see where it wouldn’t be considered one. Full control of access and an interchange on the southern end.
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tolbs17

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2021, 07:44:04 PM »

As for the CBBT… it could technically be considered a freeway, but I can see where it wouldn’t be considered one. Full control of access and an interchange on the southern end.
Once they both have two tunnels,  then it's for sure a freeway.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 07:51:19 PM by tolbs17 »
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2021, 07:45:14 PM »

CA 18 from the City Limit of San Bernardino to CA 138.  It is signed by Caltrans like a freeway but at best is a surface expressway. 
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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2021, 07:45:34 PM »

I-587, New York. It doesn't violate Interstate construction standards, but it has no interchanges unlike your typical freeway.
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tolbs17

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2021, 07:52:38 PM »

I-587, New York. It doesn't violate Interstate construction standards, but it has no interchanges unlike your typical freeway.
I-180 aswell.

Wonder why they were even designed there in the first place.
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SkyPesos

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2021, 08:03:03 PM »

I-587, New York. It doesn't violate Interstate construction standards, but it has no interchanges unlike your typical freeway.
I-180 aswell.

Wonder why they were even designed there in the first place.
Unlike I-587, I-180 (WY) isn’t even a freeway in the first place.
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cabiness42

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2021, 08:05:26 PM »

I-587, New York. It doesn't violate Interstate construction standards, but it has no interchanges unlike your typical freeway.

This brings about a question that I've had for a long time--how long between at grade intersections does a road have to go to be considered a freeway. This segment is just over a mile.

In Elkhart County, IN, CR 17 goes just over 3 miles between access points but with no interchanges. Is that a freeway?
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tolbs17

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2021, 08:10:52 PM »

Ha! Another onehere! No rumble strips with a side crossing to the right. Definitely not a real freeway.
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SkyPesos

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2021, 09:16:21 PM »

Ha! Another onehere! No rumble strips with a side crossing to the right. Definitely not a real freeway.
Do RIROs count as controlled access?
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tolbs17

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2021, 10:08:37 PM »

Ha! Another onehere! No rumble strips with a side crossing to the right. Definitely not a real freeway.
Do RIROs count as controlled access?
Talking about this. No.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2021, 10:10:45 PM »

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SkyPesos

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2021, 10:12:57 PM »

Ha! Another onehere! No rumble strips with a side crossing to the right. Definitely not a real freeway.
Do RIROs count as controlled access?
Talking about this. No.
Maybe not specifically that one, but more fancier ones like the chain on US 50 in MD east of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, which have exit numbers and are marked as part of a freeway on Google Maps.

And for one without a physical gore on an interstate, here's one on I-75 SB in Cincinnati.
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tolbs17

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2021, 10:22:00 PM »

NCDOT calls this a "freeway" design.

And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?
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SkyPesos

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2021, 10:24:06 PM »

NCDOT calls this a "freeway" design.

And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?
Yes
Looks like a standard folded diamond to me. And I see nothing wrong with the design in the top link.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 10:26:57 PM by SkyPesos »
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tolbs17

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2021, 10:26:42 PM »

And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?
Yes
I say maybe an urban freeway, not rural.

They also say that this is a freeway also, except I think it was supposed to get C/D lanes.
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SkyPesos

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2021, 10:28:45 PM »

And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?
Yes
I say maybe an urban freeway, not rural.

They also say that this is a freeway also, except I think it was supposed to get C/D lanes.
Are you referring to NC 540 or US 64 in the link? If it's NC 540, I see C/D lanes. If US 64, Google Maps code it as an limited access expressway, not the darker orange of a freeway.
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tolbs17

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2021, 10:30:42 PM »

And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?
Yes
I say maybe an urban freeway, not rural.

They also say that this is a freeway also, except I think it was supposed to get C/D lanes.
Are you referring to NC 540 or US 64 in the link? If it's NC 540, I see C/D lanes. If US 64, Google Maps code it as an limited access expressway, not the darker orange of a freeway.
US 64. And it's hard to tell if Google Maps has it listed as an expressway or a freeway. Waze and OpenStreetMaps are more clear listing the segments as a freeway.
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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2021, 10:31:17 PM »

I never thought I'd see a definition of "freeway" that was stricter than the one used by the Canadians arguing with me in the Detroit Bridge Wars thread (that the Thruway wasn't a freeway due to the toll barriers), but then I read this thread... :-o
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SkyPesos

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2021, 10:32:32 PM »

And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?
Yes
I say maybe an urban freeway, not rural.

They also say that this is a freeway also, except I think it was supposed to get C/D lanes.
Are you referring to NC 540 or US 64 in the link? If it's NC 540, I see C/D lanes. If US 64, Google Maps code it as an limited access expressway, not the darker orange of a freeway.
US 64. And it's hard to tell if Google Maps has it listed as an expressway or a freeway. Waze and OpenStreetMaps are more clear listing the segments as a freeway.
I think it looks clearer when zoomed out a bit. NC 540 is the N-S line to the left, US 1 is the diagonal on the bottom, and US 64 is the E-W.
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tolbs17

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Re: Freeways that aren't really a freeway
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2021, 10:36:47 PM »

And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?
Yes
I say maybe an urban freeway, not rural.

They also say that this is a freeway also, except I think it was supposed to get C/D lanes.
Are you referring to NC 540 or US 64 in the link? If it's NC 540, I see C/D lanes. If US 64, Google Maps code it as an limited access expressway, not the darker orange of a freeway.
US 64. And it's hard to tell if Google Maps has it listed as an expressway or a freeway. Waze and OpenStreetMaps are more clear listing the segments as a freeway.
I think it looks clearer when zoomed out a bit. NC 540 is the N-S line to the left, US 1 is the diagonal on the bottom, and US 64 is the E-W.

There has been some talk back in the day to convert that into a full freeway, but it seems like that plan is dead.
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