Electric Car Arguing 2022

[kalvado]

Any amount of energy that's expended to produce noise is energy that's not going into the drivetrain or powering some user application like climate control, the windshield wipers, radio, etc. It is literally the sound of dollars being lost to the environment.

Nope, I derive enjoyment from it so I don't mind in the slightest. I am not so cheap as to sweat over the 2 cents it costs to tap the gas pedal once in a while.

Has it occurred to you that people that are not you may derive enjoyment from an electric vehicle, and therefore not mind their limitations in the slightest?

Oh I don't care if they want to drive them, in fact be my guest, makes fuel cheaper for my V8 if there are more people driving electric cars. Someone even made a bumper sticker to the effect of "proudly burning the gas saved by Prius owners" that I would like to find.
However, I also am honest about their deficiencies, and I never can quite look at people driving them without being amused.. 

Every single thing made on planet Earth has deficiences and a result of many compromises. EVs definitely have their niches, question is if you think that is an appropriate thing for you personally.
I do have reservations about EVs, but I equally have questions to ICE technology. Unfortunately 100% wfh is not an option for me, so I have to choose one or the other (buses being either ice or ev included in dilemma) to get to work and earn a paycheck...

[tolbs17]

Any amount of energy that's expended to produce noise is energy that's not going into the drivetrain or powering some user application like climate control, the windshield wipers, radio, etc. It is literally the sound of dollars being lost to the environment.

Nope, I derive enjoyment from it so I don't mind in the slightest. I am not so cheap as to sweat over the 2 cents it costs to tap the gas pedal once in a while.

Has it occurred to you that people that are not you may derive enjoyment from an electric vehicle, and therefore not mind their limitations in the slightest?

Oh I don't care if they want to drive them, in fact be my guest, makes fuel cheaper for my V8 if there are more people driving electric cars. Someone even made a bumper sticker to the effect of "proudly burning the gas saved by Prius owners" that I would like to find.
However, I also am honest about their deficiencies, and I never can quite look at people driving them without being amused.. 

Every single thing made on planet Earth has deficiences and a result of many compromises. EVs definitely have their niches, question is if you think that is an appropriate thing for you personally.

It's more appropriate that it saves the planet from the greenhouse effect and not producing pollution.

[kalvado]

Any amount of energy that's expended to produce noise is energy that's not going into the drivetrain or powering some user application like climate control, the windshield wipers, radio, etc. It is literally the sound of dollars being lost to the environment.

Nope, I derive enjoyment from it so I don't mind in the slightest. I am not so cheap as to sweat over the 2 cents it costs to tap the gas pedal once in a while.

Has it occurred to you that people that are not you may derive enjoyment from an electric vehicle, and therefore not mind their limitations in the slightest?

Oh I don't care if they want to drive them, in fact be my guest, makes fuel cheaper for my V8 if there are more people driving electric cars. Someone even made a bumper sticker to the effect of "proudly burning the gas saved by Prius owners" that I would like to find.
However, I also am honest about their deficiencies, and I never can quite look at people driving them without being amused.. 

Every single thing made on planet Earth has deficiences and a result of many compromises. EVs definitely have their niches, question is if you think that is an appropriate thing for you personally.

It's more appropriate that it saves the planet from the greenhouse effect and not producing pollution.

If things were only that simple. But zis iz sajens, so no discussion permitted

[tolbs17]

Any amount of energy that's expended to produce noise is energy that's not going into the drivetrain or powering some user application like climate control, the windshield wipers, radio, etc. It is literally the sound of dollars being lost to the environment.

Nope, I derive enjoyment from it so I don't mind in the slightest. I am not so cheap as to sweat over the 2 cents it costs to tap the gas pedal once in a while.

Has it occurred to you that people that are not you may derive enjoyment from an electric vehicle, and therefore not mind their limitations in the slightest?

Oh I don't care if they want to drive them, in fact be my guest, makes fuel cheaper for my V8 if there are more people driving electric cars. Someone even made a bumper sticker to the effect of "proudly burning the gas saved by Prius owners" that I would like to find.
However, I also am honest about their deficiencies, and I never can quite look at people driving them without being amused.. 

Every single thing made on planet Earth has deficiences and a result of many compromises. EVs definitely have their niches, question is if you think that is an appropriate thing for you personally.

It's more appropriate that it saves the planet from the greenhouse effect and not producing pollution.

If things were only that simple.

It will be simple once we get a fuckton of EV chargers and EV cars on the planet.

[kalvado]

Any amount of energy that's expended to produce noise is energy that's not going into the drivetrain or powering some user application like climate control, the windshield wipers, radio, etc. It is literally the sound of dollars being lost to the environment.

Nope, I derive enjoyment from it so I don't mind in the slightest. I am not so cheap as to sweat over the 2 cents it costs to tap the gas pedal once in a while.

Has it occurred to you that people that are not you may derive enjoyment from an electric vehicle, and therefore not mind their limitations in the slightest?

Oh I don't care if they want to drive them, in fact be my guest, makes fuel cheaper for my V8 if there are more people driving electric cars. Someone even made a bumper sticker to the effect of "proudly burning the gas saved by Prius owners" that I would like to find.
However, I also am honest about their deficiencies, and I never can quite look at people driving them without being amused.. 

Every single thing made on planet Earth has deficiences and a result of many compromises. EVs definitely have their niches, question is if you think that is an appropriate thing for you personally.

It's more appropriate that it saves the planet from the greenhouse effect and not producing pollution.

If things were only that simple.

It will be simple once we get a fuckton of EV chargers and EV cars on the planet.

I like you optimism. Unfortunately it is hard to share.

[DenverBrian]

I don't get the hate for EVs.

It's not hate; it's just curmudgeons being curmudgeons. And we have a plethora of those in this forum.

These are the same people whose grandfathers sat at the coffee shop, grousing about how them dang auter-matic transmissions were going to RUIN driving forever.

[HighwayStar]

I don't get the hate for EVs.

It's not hate; it's just curmudgeons being curmudgeons. And we have a plethora of those in this forum.

These are the same people whose grandfathers sat at the coffee shop, grousing about how them dang auter-matic transmissions were going to RUIN driving forever.

That's why I still have a manual. 

[tolbs17]

Any amount of energy that's expended to produce noise is energy that's not going into the drivetrain or powering some user application like climate control, the windshield wipers, radio, etc. It is literally the sound of dollars being lost to the environment.

Nope, I derive enjoyment from it so I don't mind in the slightest. I am not so cheap as to sweat over the 2 cents it costs to tap the gas pedal once in a while.

Has it occurred to you that people that are not you may derive enjoyment from an electric vehicle, and therefore not mind their limitations in the slightest?

Oh I don't care if they want to drive them, in fact be my guest, makes fuel cheaper for my V8 if there are more people driving electric cars. Someone even made a bumper sticker to the effect of "proudly burning the gas saved by Prius owners" that I would like to find.
However, I also am honest about their deficiencies, and I never can quite look at people driving them without being amused.. 

Every single thing made on planet Earth has deficiences and a result of many compromises. EVs definitely have their niches, question is if you think that is an appropriate thing for you personally.

It's more appropriate that it saves the planet from the greenhouse effect and not producing pollution.

If things were only that simple.

It will be simple once we get a fuckton of EV chargers and EV cars on the planet.

I like you optimism. Unfortunately it is hard to share.

Unless you prefer old-fashioned stuff, which is not a problem. It's like saying overhead signs that require lighting (or even the button copy ones) are what you prefer rather than the newer retroreflective ones that do not need lighting.

My dad considered getting a Tesla Model S, but he thinks that's taking a step a little too overboard (as of right now). So he'll wait. He's considering to get an Audi Q8 though. I wonder if they have electric models of those but I feel like they are all gas.

[kalvado]

Any amount of energy that's expended to produce noise is energy that's not going into the drivetrain or powering some user application like climate control, the windshield wipers, radio, etc. It is literally the sound of dollars being lost to the environment.

Nope, I derive enjoyment from it so I don't mind in the slightest. I am not so cheap as to sweat over the 2 cents it costs to tap the gas pedal once in a while.

Has it occurred to you that people that are not you may derive enjoyment from an electric vehicle, and therefore not mind their limitations in the slightest?

Oh I don't care if they want to drive them, in fact be my guest, makes fuel cheaper for my V8 if there are more people driving electric cars. Someone even made a bumper sticker to the effect of "proudly burning the gas saved by Prius owners" that I would like to find.
However, I also am honest about their deficiencies, and I never can quite look at people driving them without being amused.. 

Every single thing made on planet Earth has deficiences and a result of many compromises. EVs definitely have their niches, question is if you think that is an appropriate thing for you personally.

It's more appropriate that it saves the planet from the greenhouse effect and not producing pollution.

If things were only that simple.

It will be simple once we get a fuckton of EV chargers and EV cars on the planet.

I like you optimism. Unfortunately it is hard to share.

Unless you prefer old-fashioned stuff, which is not a problem. It's like saying overhead signs that require lighting (or even the button copy ones) are what you prefer rather than the newer retroreflective ones that do not need lighting.

My dad considered getting a Tesla Model S, but he thinks that's taking a step a little too overboard (as of right now). So he'll wait. He's considering to get an Audi Q8 though. I wonder if they have electric models of those but I feel like they are all gas.

Let me put it so... I am a technical person with some kind of experience. Namely, my PhD is in physics, and I have some quarter century of research behind me. My questions are ways more involved than simple old vs new..

[Scott5114]

If things were only that simple. But zis iz sajens, so no discussion permitted

Sajens... Hm... Sajak? He could be a renewable energy resource, if we hooked a generator up to the Wheel of Fortune...

[Rothman]

I don't get the hate for EVs.

It's not hate; it's just curmudgeons being curmudgeons. And we have a plethora of those in this forum.

These are the same people whose grandfathers sat at the coffee shop, grousing about how them dang auter-matic transmissions were going to RUIN driving forever.

Nope.  It's those of us who are saying that if we switched over today, it would be an obvious inconvenience for the type of driving we do.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I don't get the hate for EVs.

It's not hate; it's just curmudgeons being curmudgeons. And we have a plethora of those in this forum.

These are the same people whose grandfathers sat at the coffee shop, grousing about how them dang auter-matic transmissions were going to RUIN driving forever.

Nope.  It's those of us who are saying that if we switched over today, it would be an obvious inconvenience for the type of driving we do.

As much as the enviro nuts want it, it's not happening today or even in the relatively near future.

You also have to remember the average American is uninterested in a 10+ day road trip. Obviously there have to be concessions for those of us who do want to do that. The market will push us to the fringe and we won't be able to do much about it until the tech and the entities who resist EV coddling catch up.

[HighwayStar]

I don't get the hate for EVs.

It's not hate; it's just curmudgeons being curmudgeons. And we have a plethora of those in this forum.

These are the same people whose grandfathers sat at the coffee shop, grousing about how them dang auter-matic transmissions were going to RUIN driving forever.

Nope.  It's those of us who are saying that if we switched over today, it would be an obvious inconvenience for the type of driving we do.

As much as the enviro nuts want it, it's not happening today or even in the relatively near future.

You also have to remember the average American is uninterested in a 10+ day road trip. Obviously there have to be concessions for those of us who do want to do that. The market will push us to the fringe and we won't be able to do much about it until the tech and the entities who resist EV coddling catch up.

Again with the strawman and moving goalposts.

The average American motorist periodically does that family vacation, trip to grandma's for thanksgiving, etc. that is on the road and goes further than an EV is going to make it. And that American motorist has no desire to screw around trying to string together charging stations so they can get A to B. You don't have to need 10+ hour road trips to not want to deal with this crap, especially because we have more than enough petroleum to skip it.

[hbelkins]

In my area, increasing electricity rates are rapidly becoming a barrier to the use of EVs. Power rates seem to be going up faster than gas prices. Practically everyone I know in my area, who are customers of four different power companies, has been complaining how much higher their rates are. Gas prices fluctuate. Electricity prices never go down -- and government utility regulators never have the guts to tell the power companies "no" when they ask for a rate increase.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I don't get the hate for EVs.

It's not hate; it's just curmudgeons being curmudgeons. And we have a plethora of those in this forum.

These are the same people whose grandfathers sat at the coffee shop, grousing about how them dang auter-matic transmissions were going to RUIN driving forever.

Nope.  It's those of us who are saying that if we switched over today, it would be an obvious inconvenience for the type of driving we do.

As much as the enviro nuts want it, it's not happening today or even in the relatively near future.

You also have to remember the average American is uninterested in a 10+ day road trip. Obviously there have to be concessions for those of us who do want to do that. The market will push us to the fringe and we won't be able to do much about it until the tech and the entities who resist EV coddling catch up.

Again with the strawman and moving goalposts.

The average American motorist periodically does that family vacation, trip to grandma's for thanksgiving, etc. that is on the road and goes further than an EV is going to make it. And that American motorist has no desire to screw around trying to string together charging stations so they can get A to B. You don't have to need 10+ hour road trips to not want to deal with this crap, especially because we have more than enough petroleum to skip it.

Read what I wrote again, because you missed the entire point out of deliberately choosing to ignore the reality of your average person's daily/weekly habits.

[HighwayStar]

I don't get the hate for EVs.

It's not hate; it's just curmudgeons being curmudgeons. And we have a plethora of those in this forum.

These are the same people whose grandfathers sat at the coffee shop, grousing about how them dang auter-matic transmissions were going to RUIN driving forever.

Nope.  It's those of us who are saying that if we switched over today, it would be an obvious inconvenience for the type of driving we do.

As much as the enviro nuts want it, it's not happening today or even in the relatively near future.

You also have to remember the average American is uninterested in a 10+ day road trip. Obviously there have to be concessions for those of us who do want to do that. The market will push us to the fringe and we won't be able to do much about it until the tech and the entities who resist EV coddling catch up.

Again with the strawman and moving goalposts.

The average American motorist periodically does that family vacation, trip to grandma's for thanksgiving, etc. that is on the road and goes further than an EV is going to make it. And that American motorist has no desire to screw around trying to string together charging stations so they can get A to B. You don't have to need 10+ hour road trips to not want to deal with this crap, especially because we have more than enough petroleum to skip it.

Read what I wrote again, because you missed the entire point out of deliberately choosing to ignore the reality of your average person's daily/weekly habits.

A person's daily/weekly habits are not relevant. It does not matter if you don't need to drive 500 miles every day, if you need to do it once a year you need a car that will do that. The fact that you don't need it every week is simply not relevant.

[hotdogPi]

You can still get there with an electric vehicle. It's not like the situation I'm in where I can't get to New Hampshire by myself because I don't drive and public transit doesn't cross the state line. With an electric vehicle, it will take slightly longer. This is a very minor inconvenience if it only happens once per year or even once every three months.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I don't get the hate for EVs.

It's not hate; it's just curmudgeons being curmudgeons. And we have a plethora of those in this forum.

These are the same people whose grandfathers sat at the coffee shop, grousing about how them dang auter-matic transmissions were going to RUIN driving forever.

Nope.  It's those of us who are saying that if we switched over today, it would be an obvious inconvenience for the type of driving we do.

As much as the enviro nuts want it, it's not happening today or even in the relatively near future.

You also have to remember the average American is uninterested in a 10+ day road trip. Obviously there have to be concessions for those of us who do want to do that. The market will push us to the fringe and we won't be able to do much about it until the tech and the entities who resist EV coddling catch up.

Again with the strawman and moving goalposts.

The average American motorist periodically does that family vacation, trip to grandma's for thanksgiving, etc. that is on the road and goes further than an EV is going to make it. And that American motorist has no desire to screw around trying to string together charging stations so they can get A to B. You don't have to need 10+ hour road trips to not want to deal with this crap, especially because we have more than enough petroleum to skip it.

Read what I wrote again, because you missed the entire point out of deliberately choosing to ignore the reality of your average person's daily/weekly habits.

A person's daily/weekly habits are not relevant. It does not matter if you don't need to drive 500 miles every day, if you need to do it once a year you need a car that will do that. The fact that you don't need it every week is simply not relevant.

...which I had already conceded in my post you called me out on.

So why do you, the exception to the norm, matter so much more than the normies?

[noelbotevera]

Man, you just don't know when to give up, do you?

[Scott5114]

When I was six, my parents used to drive a two-seat Pontiac Fiero and a loud-ass white Chevy pickup truck that probably got a third of a mile per gallon. We wanted to drive all three of us to Kansas City for Thanksgiving every year, yet neither of their cars were suited for the task, and it made no financial sense to buy a third car for the special occasion that literally came up once a year. What do you suppose they did?

They rented a four-door sedan for a week.

[HighwayStar]

You can still get there with an electric vehicle. It's not like the situation I'm in where I can't get to New Hampshire by myself because I don't drive and public transit doesn't cross the state line. With an electric vehicle, it will take slightly longer. This is a very minor inconvenience if it only happens once per year or even once every three months.

I refuse to settle for that type of inconvenience though. If they were actually nice cars it would be one thing, but they aren't.

[HighwayStar]

When I was six, my parents used to drive a two-seat Pontiac Fiero and a loud-ass white Chevy pickup truck that probably got a third of a mile per gallon. We wanted to drive all three of us to Kansas City for Thanksgiving every year, yet neither of their cars were suited for the task, and it made no financial sense to buy a third car for the special occasion that literally came up once a year. What do you suppose they did?

They rented a four-door sedan for a week.

Nothing is worse than a rental car, people treat them like crap, and they usually drive like it. Nor can I go out and rent a decent road trip car, most of what is available for rent are econobox specials meant for a businessman to get around town for the week, not for 4 people to cruise long highway days in luxury.

[Scott5114]

When I was six, my parents used to drive a two-seat Pontiac Fiero and a loud-ass white Chevy pickup truck that probably got a third of a mile per gallon. We wanted to drive all three of us to Kansas City for Thanksgiving every year, yet neither of their cars were suited for the task, and it made no financial sense to buy a third car for the special occasion that literally came up once a year. What do you suppose they did?

They rented a four-door sedan for a week.

Nothing is worse than a rental car, people treat them like crap, and they usually drive like it. Nor can I go out and rent a decent road trip car, most of what is available for rent are econobox specials meant for a businessman to get around town for the week, not for 4 people to cruise long highway days in luxury.

[ilpt4u]

Nothing is worse than a rental car, people treat them like crap, and they usually drive like it. Nor can I go out and rent a decent road trip car, most of what is available for rent are econobox specials meant for a businessman to get around town for the week, not for 4 people to cruise long highway days in luxury.

BS

I have rented Sedans and Crossovers for long road trips that drive just fine. Schedule your rental ahead of time from a neighborhood rental shop (Avis, Enterprise, etc) and select what style of car you want. They'll get it there

Rented a car for Chicago-Denver, Chicago-DC, and Southern IL-Brainerd MN road trips. Cars drove great and it beat the crap, especially fuel mileage-wise, over driving my 06 Toyota Tacoma or, later, my 2014 F150

[HighwayStar]

When I was six, my parents used to drive a two-seat Pontiac Fiero and a loud-ass white Chevy pickup truck that probably got a third of a mile per gallon. We wanted to drive all three of us to Kansas City for Thanksgiving every year, yet neither of their cars were suited for the task, and it made no financial sense to buy a third car for the special occasion that literally came up once a year. What do you suppose they did?

They rented a four-door sedan for a week.

Nothing is worse than a rental car, people treat them like crap, and they usually drive like it. Nor can I go out and rent a decent road trip car, most of what is available for rent are econobox specials meant for a businessman to get around town for the week, not for 4 people to cruise long highway days in luxury.

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so.