__________ is/are overrated.

[webny99]

There seems to be a misconception of why I even brought this up in this thread. It had nothing to do with the affordability of TSA pre-check, it was about how overblown the hassle of airport travel is in general. Of course I think TSA makes it a lot less of a hassle, but it goes without saying that it's not for everyone.

My point I was making is that not everyone's expendable income is obviously the same, and some things that people deem worthy of spending it on would not be viewed by others as a worthwhile purchase.

I get that, but I was assuming we already know it's a worthwhile purchase, and I know that isn't true for everyone, but it is certainly true for frequent flyers. At exactly what point is it a worthwhile purchase is a trickier question. 2 flights a year? 5? 10?

You have the cash and clean criminal record to be able to spend $78 on pre-check. But once you did, then you now think that the hassle of air travel is overrated. Well of course it is for you, because you paid some funds to avoid it. That doesn't mean that the hassle of air travel is lessened as a whole. Especially for infrequent flyers that don't pay attention to the 3/1/1 rule or know where to go in the airport. Obviously I've been lucky enough to fly a bunch, so it doesn't really bother me, but I do understand why it makes other people uncomfortable.

Only $50, actually. TSA pre-check just happens to be one of the perks of NEXUS, which is what I actually wanted/needed to spend the money on, and that only costs $50 for 5 years. Now I understand NEXUS can also be a hassle to sign up for, especially if you don't live near the border, but it is a cheaper option and also a huge time saver for the busier land crossings.

I definitely get why airport travel can be overwhelming for people that aren't used to it, but it's all about being prepared. Even people who rarely fly can mitigate the hassle by knowing what to expect. The biggest issue with security IMO is not the process itself, but the lines. That can cost you a lot of time at larger airports, but at a small airport like ROC that doesn't have a constant backlog, you can usually be through in less than 10 minutes, with or without pre-check.

[webny99]

Plus, as I understand it, even with PreCheck there's still a random chance you could be forced to use the regular line.

There are two ways that could happen that I know of:

1) Occasionally, your Known Traveler Number (KTN) will not appear on your boarding pass. This can usually be resolved by printing a new boarding pass, updating it online if you're using a mobile boarding pass, or worst-case, speaking to a travel agent.

2) The TSA lines aren't always 24-hour and may not be open at particularly light-traffic times. But even if it's closed, it usually means there's no line at regular security, and you're usually given a card to use the benefits of Pre-Check in the regular line.

My complaints with NEXUS are similar: it's basically a financial cost and hassle for something that everyone used to get before 9/11.  IMO we should go back to the way things were before 9/11 (mostly) and get rid of the security theater.  Keep the few things that actually help (like securing the cockpit), get rid of the rest.

The value of NEXUS is mostly for land crossings, since the designated lanes can save hours at peak times, and it generally reduces the questioning even if using a regular lane.

[kphoger]

"I think flying hassles are overrated because I'm a frequent flyer that pays to avoid it.  Less frequent flyers' opinions don't matter."

Yes, you hit the nail on the head.  I don't see why my opinion about airport hassle doesn't matter, just because I don't fly often.

Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

Honestly, I find that rather condescending of you, to assume that anyone who can afford $382 can afford $460, plus the time off and gas money it might take to go and actually get TSA PreCheck in the first place.

The last time my wife and I flew anywhere together (sixteen years ago), it was because one of her relatives had died and we needed to get to Minnesota for the funeral.  No time to plan ahead, no time to save up.  In fact, she was eight or nine months pregnant, so any savings we might have had should be going toward the baby.  In such a situation, a $382 plane ticket could all but wipe out a newlywed couple's bank account.  And here you come, saying that they should be able to afford an addition $78, no problem.  You must live a rather privileged life.  Back then, $78 was a week's worth of groceries.

You might as well say that someone who can afford a plane ticket doesn't need to be paid for PTO that day, because they can obviously stand to lose out on 8 hours' worth of $9.75/hour wages.

[Scott5114]

I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.

Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Pre-check is a one-time hassle, not comparable to the hassle of regular security if you're flying with any frequency.

Uh-huh.

Let me put it this way: "The hassle of airport travel is overrated because I paid for TSA pre-check and don't need to deal with it anymore myself."

... the point being that anyone can do that, so it's only a hassle if you choose it to be one.

Everyone has $78?

Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

So it's impossible for someone to have $383? Or are you saying you can convince the airline to charge you only $304 so you can pay $78 to PreCheck instead?

[kphoger]

So it's impossible for someone to have $383? Or are you saying you can convince the airline to charge you only $304 so you can pay $78 to PreCheck instead?

I think what he's really implying is that only people with a decent financial cushion buy plane tickets.

Which is weird, because I just went to Travelocity to check the price of a Chicago ↔ Los Angeles round trip, and I see tickets for $138.  How, I wonder, does he think less financially well-off people traveling between these two cities instead?  Hopping freight?

[Scott5114]

Yeah, and I mean, it's not like you're always in prime financial shape when a need to travel arises.

I just got paid, and paid off the bills that were due and such, so my bank account has roughly $600 in it at the moment. Enough to last us the week. But let's say my wife got a call that she has a job interview in Las Vegas, and for some reason it has to be done in person. We decide the position is lucrative enough to justify it. So we spend $382 to buy her a ticket (I imagine it'd be cheaper thanks to Uncle Clark, but we're gonna go with the number webny threw out). So now we have $218 for her to spend on a hotel room, and food for both of us for the next week. $78 on PreCheck isn't happening.

[kphoger]

Not to mention people who aren't even paying for the tickets themselves, such as those who travel for work.

And don't think that it's only high-up executives who fly on the company's dime.  For example, I work in cable, and I know people who bid on projects all over the country.  My former boss got a job, when he left here, that had him working on hotel install projects from Miami to New York to Honolulu.  He was flying somewhere new every week, sometimes multiple cities in a week, sometimes not even coming home to Wichita in between projects.  None of those tickets came out of his pocket.  But it's not like he was the guy in charge, raking in the big bucks.

[kphoger]

Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

Does this scale up for family size?  Does a 19-year old couple flying home from college for Christmas have an extra $156 to spare?  Does a family of five who used their tax refund to go to Disney World have an extra $390 to spare?

[hbelkins]

All this talk about the inconvenience of flying, and no one has touched on the real inconvenience -- limits on how much you can take with you.

If  you're traveling by car, you can pack as much as the car will hold and you're good. Extra shoes? A cooler full of pop so you don't have to buy it from overpriced hotel vending machines? Snacks for the week? A couple of extra pairs of shoes? Your laptop and camera? Sure!

Car travel isn't as fast, especially if you want to go a long distance, but it's certainly more convenient and you're more in control of your itinerary.

[Bruce]

The car can also be an inconvenience while traveling, especially when the destination is a major city. Parking, gas, and tolls add up, plus time wasted by traffic and having to rearrange things so your car is less likely to be a target for random theft. I almost never do a plane+car trip unless I'm going further out from the city.

Packing efficiently for a plane trip is possible, though. With one carry-on suitcase and one backpack (with expandable space), I was able to take my 17" laptop, a week's worth of clothes, a DSLR with extra lens, and plenty of extras. Some take it even further and do a one-backpack trip, but I'm not quite that savvy.

[Scott5114]

Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

[JayhawkCO]

Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

I mean, you mentioned Vegas upthread. Good luck getting anywhere near the Strip for free, and if you do, it's probably a spot your car could get stolen.

If you want to go to a Nuggets/Avs/Rockies game here in Denver, the closest free parking is probably 2 miles away? Maybe more?

[kphoger]

Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

I have, in the Saint Louis suburbs.  And I wasn't the one who purchased the hotel rooms, so it's not like I had a choice.

[gonealookin]

Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

I mean, you mentioned Vegas upthread. Good luck getting anywhere near the Strip for free, and if you do, it's probably a spot your car could get stolen.

One would hope parking would be included in the "Resort Fee" in Vegas, but, nope.

Pulling one at random, the Mandalay Bay, the Resort Fee is $44.22/night and there's an additional $18 daily charge for self parking.

[formulanone]

Ugh, Vegas and Disney are the worst examples. If you have $100 to gamble, you probably have the wherewithal for paying for Pre-Check.

[kphoger]

But let's say my wife got a call that she has a job interview in Las Vegas ...

If you have $100 to gamble, you probably have the wherewithal for paying for Pre-Check.

Who said anything about gambling?

[webny99]

I don't see why my opinion about airport hassle doesn't matter, just because I don't fly often.

Well, what is your opinion about airport hassle? I'm not going to spend hours sifting through the onslaught unleashed by my no-good, very bad, condescending take only to have you say that, actually, you don't care about the hassle of airport security that much and that it's no big deal.

[webny99]

Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

"Places" as in cities, or specific destinations? It's almost impossible to visit a major city without paying for parking somewhere along the way.

[formulanone]

But let's say my wife got a call that she has a job interview in Las Vegas ...

If you have $100 to gamble, you probably have the wherewithal for paying for Pre-Check.

Who said anything about gambling?

Bruh, I could have mentioned the overpriced food and covered both.

I already mentioned 30 posts ago why someone logically wouldn't bother with pre-check but it got lost in the shuffle.

Despite all that, there's about a dozen other hassles of flying which Pre-check doesn't cover.

[kphoger]

Well, what is your opinion about airport hassle? I'm not going to spend hours sifting through the onslaught unleashed by my no-good, very bad, condescending take only to have you say that, actually, you don't care about the hassle of airport security that much and that it's no big deal.

Never knowing how long it will take to get through all the chutes, and therefore having to arrive well in advance of departure, is a hassle.  Taking everything out of my pockets and the belt off my waist and all that jazz, then playing starfish in the X-ray machine -slash- Star Trek transporter, is a hassle.  Once you're actually on the aircraft, flying ain't so bad.  It's the airports I hate.  They're a hassle.

I prefer traveling by almost any other mode to traveling by air:  rail, bus, driving, even hitchhiking (although I haven't done that last one in years).

I prefer to be treated like a respectable member of society, not as a strange cross between convict and cattle.

[JayhawkCO]

Well, what is your opinion about airport hassle? I'm not going to spend hours sifting through the onslaught unleashed by my no-good, very bad, condescending take only to have you say that, actually, you don't care about the hassle of airport security that much and that it's no big deal.

Never knowing how long it will take to get through all the chutes, and therefore having to arrive well in advance of departure, is a hassle.  Taking everything out of my pockets and the belt off my waste and all that jazz, then playing starfish in the X-ray machine -slash- Star Trek transporter, is a hassle.  Once you're actually on the aircraft, flying ain't so bad.  It's the airports I hate.  They're a hassle.

I prefer traveling by almost any other mode to traveling by air:  rail, bus, driving, even hitchhiking (although I haven't done that last one in years).

I prefer to be treated like a respectable member of society, not as a strange cross between convict and cattle.

Not to mention that they apparently have to see you naked in order to fly nowadays. (Few old school metal detectors, only the new nude-o-scopes.)

[kphoger]

Not to mention that they apparently have to see you naked in order to fly nowadays. (Few old school metal detectors, only the new nude-o-scopes.)

Oh, if air travel were done in the nude, that might sway me to liking it more.  But only if they're liberal in handing out blankets, because I get cold very easily.

[jmacswimmer]

Well, what is your opinion about airport hassle? I'm not going to spend hours sifting through the onslaught unleashed by my no-good, very bad, condescending take only to have you say that, actually, you don't care about the hassle of airport security that much and that it's no big deal.

Never knowing how long it will take to get through all the chutes, and therefore having to arrive well in advance of departure, is a hassle.  Taking everything out of my pockets and the belt off my waste and all that jazz, then playing starfish in the X-ray machine -slash- Star Trek transporter, is a hassle.  Once you're actually on the aircraft, flying ain't so bad.  It's the airports I hate.  They're a hassle.

I prefer traveling by almost any other mode to traveling by air:  rail, bus, driving, even hitchhiking (although I haven't done that last one in years).

I prefer to be treated like a respectable member of society, not as a strange cross between convict and cattle.

Not to mention that they apparently have to see you naked in order to fly nowadays. (Few old school metal detectors, only the new nude-o-scopes.)

Not sure if every airport does this, but at least at BWI they still keep a backup metal detector next to the nude-o-scope. Then if the nude-o-scope line starts backing up, they wave people thru the metal detector, which is exactly what we got to do flying out 2 weeks ago.

Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

"Places" as in cities, or specific destinations? It's almost impossible to visit a major city without paying for parking somewhere along the way.

And in a perfect tie-together of the airport & paid-parking discussions: If you plan on driving yourself to the airport and leaving the car parked during the trip, you'll be paying to do so whether in an airport-run lot or off-airport private lot.

[Scott5114]

Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

"Places" as in cities, or specific destinations? It's almost impossible to visit a major city without paying for parking somewhere along the way.

I guess I only visit minor cities, then. It's not hard to find free parking in downtown OKC, although I have an unfair home-field advantage there. But even so, I've never had to pay for parking in Tulsa, Kansas City, or Dallas. Maybe I'm just lucky in that I don't normally frequent (or even enjoy) things like arena concerts where paying to park would be a given.

I mean, you mentioned Vegas upthread. Good luck getting anywhere near the Strip for free, and if you do, it's probably a spot your car could get stolen.

The first time I went to Las Vegas, I stayed at the Rio, and as far as I'm aware we weren't charged for parking (though it's entirely possible that we were and the person driving just never mentioned it). Granted, the Rio has a reputation for being a dive compared to the rest of Las Vegas, but the casino in Oklahoma I have the most experience with is literally made of temporary trailer buildings, so it seemed nice enough to me. (And the Excalibur, the only other casino in Nevada I've been in and which does charge for parking, wasn't that much nicer. Actually, I liked the room better at the Rio.)

I imagine you could save a few bucks by staying at the Rio and then just taking Uber or whatever over to the actual Strip, since it's not that far of a drive. (I wouldn't try to walk it, though, since that bridge over I-15 seems like it would be dicey.)

But let's say my wife got a call that she has a job interview in Las Vegas ...

If you have $100 to gamble, you probably have the wherewithal for paying for Pre-Check.

Who said anything about gambling?

I mean, I guess participating in corporate employment is a form of gambling, but I don't think that's what formulanone meant...

[thspfc]

The debate about whether "if you have $382 then you also have $78" is true is funny to me because, that's not even the question. The flight itself, and therefore the expense of the flight, is more important than the amount of time it takes to get on and off that flight. Just because you can afford to pay the extra $78 doesn't mean you should. Paying the $78 to save a bit of time on one round trip flight for the whole duration of the 5 years is just lighting money on fire unless you're wealthy to the point where you might as well pay for business class too.