PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Relocating Kentucky

[kphoger]

In my mind, the point of the regional boards is so people can easily find the state they're looking for.  If they want to find info about a project in Kentucky, then all that matters is what region of the country that state is in–not how its road projects related to other states' road projects.  If people think of Kentucky as a Midwestern state, then they'll look in a Midwest board for Kentucky-related topics.  If they think it's a Southern state, then they'll look in a Southern board for related topics.

[Buck87]

I missed the deadline to vote in the poll but wanted to add that I would have voted Midwest-Great Lakes for the same Ohio River related reasons that others have stated.

For example, if Kentucky goes to the Southeast board, which board will receive the 1357 post "I-69 Ohio River Bridge" thread or the 560 post "I-265 Ohio River Bridge" thread, or the various Brent Spence Bridge threads etc. ?

[webny99]

I missed the deadline to vote in the poll but wanted to add that I would have voted Midwest-Great Lakes for the same Ohio River related reasons that others have stated.

For example, if Kentucky goes to the Southeast board, which board will receive the 1357 post "I-69 Ohio River Bridge" thread or the 560 post "I-265 Ohio River Bridge" thread, or the various Brent Spence Bridge threads etc. ?

See, I still think that's not seeing the forest for the trees.

See the quote below:

Edited to add: The intent would be for the border to be "fuzzed" around the metro areas. Metro Cincinnati topics would go to Midwest and metro Louisville topics would go to whichever board Kentucky ends up in.

So, even though I don't think it's a big deal which board an individual thread ends up in...

-Brent Spence Bridge would go in Midwest-Great Lakes by association with Cincinnati
-I-69 Ohio River Bridge would go in Midwest-Great Lakes by association with Evansville
-I-265 Ohio River Bridge would go in Southeast by association with Louisville

[skluth]

^^^
Readers tend to look at their areas of interest. The typical result is two regions get parallel threads like the I-49 connection between Arkansas (Mid-South) and Missouri (Central States).

[Scott5114]

The worst-case scenario for putting Kentucky in Midwest is that someone looking to start or add to a Kentucky discussion either a) unknowingly posts it in the Southeast board, and it has to be moved, or b) has to search two boards to find where it should be located, and is left wondering why it's in Midwest when it's traditionally a southern state.

I mean, the board listing expliclity says which states are in which forum. If someone fails to read that and does something stupid that causes them extra effort as a result, that is 100% on them.

[CardInLex]

I am personally in favor of whole states staying together (no breaking up of states into regions).

To the mods, is it possible for projects that span two states that are not in the same region to have cross linked threads? For example, if Kentucky were in the Southeast and Indiana in the Midwest, a thread discussing the I-69 Ohio River Crossing could appear on both boards? And when clicked they open the same thread? I know the breadcrumbs would get wonky, but it could be a solution. Or (using my example) since Kentucky is building the bridge, the thread would live on the Southeast board (or where ever KY ends up). And when you click on the same thread on the Midwest board, you see a message saying this thread has been moved (like we see when a mod moves a thread) redirecting people to the correct thread?

Just an idea. I have no idea if it is technically possible. Just thought I would offer a suggestion. In the end, I will live with whatever decisions the mods make. I know being a moderator probably can be difficult and you'll never please everyone. But, you all do a good job!

[hbelkins]

If we're talking about individual projects, I would house both the I-69 and Brent Spence threads in whatever board Kentucky lands, mainly because Kentucky owns the river and the majority of the land work on both projects is going to happen south of the state line. Very little new construction will be needed to link the I-69 bridge to the existing freeway on the Indiana side, while a significant amount of new road will need to be built in Kentucky. And regarding the Brent Spence, the construction is going to extend all the way back to the top of the hill at the Dixie Highway interchange.

[Alps]

I am personally in favor of whole states staying together (no breaking up of states into regions).

To the mods, is it possible for projects that span two states that are not in the same region to have cross linked threads? For example, if Kentucky were in the Southeast and Indiana in the Midwest, a thread discussing the I-69 Ohio River Crossing could appear on both boards? And when clicked they open the same thread? I know the breadcrumbs would get wonky, but it could be a solution. Or (using my example) since Kentucky is building the bridge, the thread would live on the Southeast board (or where ever KY ends up). And when you click on the same thread on the Midwest board, you see a message saying this thread has been moved (like we see when a mod moves a thread) redirecting people to the correct thread?

Just an idea. I have no idea if it is technically possible. Just thought I would offer a suggestion. In the end, I will live with whatever decisions the mods make. I know being a moderator probably can be difficult and you'll never please everyone. But, you all do a good job!

No, a thread is specific to the board it's in.

[ITB]

OK. After browsing the thread, I've shifted my thoughts. Although Kentucky is often grouped with the southern states (Southeastern Conference, etc.), road and bridge wise it seems more connected to Indiana and Ohio.

We need to move forward. Nothing will be perfect. Having Kentucky placed in the Midwest, Great Lakes is perhaps the best solution at this time.

[Rothman]

OK. After browsing the thread, I've shifted my thoughts. Although Kentucky is often grouped with the southern states (Southeastern Conference, etc.), road and bridge wise it seems more connected to Indiana and Ohio.

We need to move forward. Nothing will be perfect. Having Kentucky placed in the Midwest, Great Lakes is perhaps the best solution at this time.

I don't know if I've ever seen someone work so hard to come to the wrong conclusion.

[kphoger]

OK. After browsing the thread, I've shifted my thoughts. Although Kentucky is often grouped with the southern states (Southeastern Conference, etc.), road and bridge wise it seems more connected to Indiana and Ohio.

We need to move forward. Nothing will be perfect. Having Kentucky placed in the Midwest, Great Lakes is perhaps the best solution at this time.

But that isn't how people search for topics, though, right?

I want to discuss a project that's being planned on Route XXX in Kentucky.  Let's see, which regional board should I look in for a discussion about that?  Well, some people think of Kentucky as a southern state, but others don't.  Others think of it as kind of half-southern, maybe like a mid-South kind of state.  Hmmm...  Well, now that I think about it, though, a lot of Kentucky's roads and bridges are connected to states in the Midwest that border the Great Lakes.  So, even though Kentucky isn't in the Midwest and is nowhere near the Great Lakes, I'm betting discussions about it are most likely in the Midwest & Great Lakes regional board.

And yeah, I get that the states are included in the description of each board.  But, if the state you're looking for isn't even in the top two regions that naturally come to mind, then, at that point, what's even the point of having regional board names to begin with?

[ITB]

OK. After browsing the thread, I've shifted my thoughts. Although Kentucky is often grouped with the southern states (Southeastern Conference, etc.), road and bridge wise it seems more connected to Indiana and Ohio.

We need to move forward. Nothing will be perfect. Having Kentucky placed in the Midwest, Great Lakes is perhaps the best solution at this time.

I don't know if I've ever seen someone work so hard to come to the wrong conclusion.

At a core level, I believe Kentucky is more Southeast than Midwest, Great Lakes. The poll results, however, tilt toward the Midwest. As such, in the interest of moving forward, perhaps its best to follow that guidance, at least for the time being. In the long run, it may be worthwhile to create a Mid-South regional board, comprised of Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina. I know, I know. We already have a Mid-South regional board. But that board seems to be a misnomer and, perhaps, is better titled South Central.
 

[hbelkins]

I would rename "Midwest-Great Lakes" as simply "Great Lakes" and rename "Central States" to "Midwest." I think of Kansas and Oklahoma and Nebraska as being in the midwest as much as I do Illinois, Indiana, or Ohio.

Perhaps a criterion for being in a midwestern board is that the state is flat.

[SkyPesos]

I would rename "Midwest-Great Lakes" as simply "Great Lakes" and rename "Central States" to "Midwest." I think of Kansas and Oklahoma and Nebraska as being in the midwest as much as I do Illinois, Indiana, or Ohio.

Perhaps a criterion for being in a midwestern board is that the state is flat.

Guess we're moving IL to the new Midwest board then.

[vdeane]

I have to admit, I was in the "group it by the road projects" camp when voting took place, but after someone mentioned other split states in other boards like Mississippi, now I'm not so sure.  I figured it made sense to keep the states on either side of the bridge projects together, but then I realized that the same thing will likely happen elsewhere if the "un-split the states" trend continues.

[US 89]

If you're south of the Ohio and west of the main Appalachian mountain chains, you are southern as far as I'm concerned.

Kentucky's road network also looks and feels way more southern, in no small part because it was surveyed according to the old British metes-and-bounds systems instead of the regular PLSS grid used in Indiana, most of Ohio, and the rest of the Midwest.

[cjw2001]

Just remove the Midwest from the name and call the merged forum Great Lakes and Ohio Valley.

[mrsman]

OK. After browsing the thread, I've shifted my thoughts. Although Kentucky is often grouped with the southern states (Southeastern Conference, etc.), road and bridge wise it seems more connected to Indiana and Ohio.

We need to move forward. Nothing will be perfect. Having Kentucky placed in the Midwest, Great Lakes is perhaps the best solution at this time.

I don't know if I've ever seen someone work so hard to come to the wrong conclusion.

At a core level, I believe Kentucky is more Southeast than Midwest, Great Lakes. The poll results, however, tilt toward the Midwest. As such, in the interest of moving forward, perhaps its best to follow that guidance, at least for the time being. In the long run, it may be worthwhile to create a Mid-South regional board, comprised of Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina. I know, I know. We already have a Mid-South regional board. But that board seems to be a misnomer and, perhaps, is better titled South Central.

Would you still feel that way if the Midwest board were named Midwest, Great Lakes, and Ohio Valley (or just Great Lakes and Ohio Valley or even Midwest and Ohio Valley)?   The old boards left KY out of the Southeastern States and put them in with the split-states that front the Ohio River. People seemsed to be OK putting all KY related threads into the Ohio Valley board, even if one considers KY a southeastern state, because one checked the list of states in the board's description.  The real difficulty was deciding whether posts for large parts of IL, IN, or OH belonged in Great Lakes or Ohio Valley (and that probelm is corrected by the action to remove the Ohio Valley board).  If one essentially created a new board that ostensibly merged Great Lakes and Ohio Valley (and the new name adequately reflects the merger of the two old boards) then KY should be at home in the new board and all of the river projects connecting KY to IL, IN, or OH would also be in that new board.

I also want to thank the moderators for their hard work in working through the Ohio Valley threads that are necessary to bring about simplicity.  I think we should give moderators time to complete the task of closing Ohio Valley before considering the remaining split-states.

[ITB]

Just remove the Midwest from the name and call the merged forum Great Lakes and Ohio Valley.

This is a good suggestion. Should be acceptable to most forum members.

I'm going to step back now on this topic. There was a lot of good, thought provoking feedback. In the long run, combining states under one forum category, I believe, is the best way forward. For simplicity sake. For cohesiveness.

[ran4sh]

OK. After browsing the thread, I've shifted my thoughts. Although Kentucky is often grouped with the southern states (Southeastern Conference, etc.), road and bridge wise it seems more connected to Indiana and Ohio.

We need to move forward. Nothing will be perfect. Having Kentucky placed in the Midwest, Great Lakes is perhaps the best solution at this time.

I don't know if I've ever seen someone work so hard to come to the wrong conclusion.

At a core level, I believe Kentucky is more Southeast than Midwest, Great Lakes. The poll results, however, tilt toward the Midwest. As such, in the interest of moving forward, perhaps its best to follow that guidance, at least for the time being. In the long run, it may be worthwhile to create a Mid-South regional board, comprised of Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina. I know, I know. We already have a Mid-South regional board. But that board seems to be a misnomer and, perhaps, is better titled South Central.
 

Moving North Carolina away from South Carolina to put it with Kentucky doesn't really make any sense tbh.