Georgia

[emory]

Wasn't today the projected opening date for the completed Harry S. Truman Parkway in Savannah?

[Alex]

Wasn't today the projected opening date for the completed Harry S. Truman Parkway in Savannah?

Just read that the ribbon-cutting is scheduled for 3:30.

[Alex]

Dedicated today, but not yet open to traffic

Drivers mixed on new Truman Pkwy extension

SAVANNAH, GA (WTOC) -
Phase 5 of the Truman Parkway was dedicated Friday, but it still not officially open.

When the Truman Parkway actually opens up, residents will have easier access from the south side to other parts of the city such as downtown and it will alleviate congestion on Abercorn Street.

[lordsutch]

Dedicated today, but not yet open to traffic

Drivers mixed on new Truman Pkwy extension

SAVANNAH, GA (WTOC) -
Phase 5 of the Truman Parkway was dedicated Friday, but it still not officially open.

When the Truman Parkway actually opens up, residents will have easier access from the south side to other parts of the city such as downtown and it will alleviate congestion on Abercorn Street.

Phase V opened Friday according to media reports; I drove it today. Pretty unexciting for a freeway; the only real noteworthy things were the 55 mph speed limit throughout (no speed limit drop even as you come to the end of the mainline at a signal) and even the new guide signs being GDOT Series D specials despite GDOT switching to FHWA standard guide signage years ago; the latter shows you how dated the plans were.

Also saw what appears to be the start of work on the DeLoach Pkwy extension to SR 307 while I was in the general neighborhood.

[afone]

A DDI interchange is being proposed for the Interstate 95/SR 21 interchange in Savannah. It would be the first one in the state outside of Atlanta.
http://wjcl.com/2014/06/09/new-interchange-proposed-for-i-95-highway-21/

[afone]

Also the Interstate 75/Brighton road interchange in South GA will be upgraded.
http://www.walb.com/story/25692096/i-75brighton-road-interchange-to-be-made-safer

[Tom958]

Gawd, this thread is dead!   

Just drove to my bud's house on 316, and they'll open the Collins Hill Road bridge tonight at midnight. Today Collins Hill is closed at the intersection with 316 as crews do whatever it is they're doing to prepare to shift traffic to the new bridge.

I also noticed that the new pavement on the 316 mainline east of GA 20 is asphalt, laid up to within topping thickness of the new concrete mainline lanes. I suppose they're using asphalt there in order to make demo easier when the freeway conversion continues at some future date (it was in the transportation SPLOST that failed last year).

To get to my bud's house I got off 316 at Fence Road. Traffic is quite heavy there, but there's no traffic light, and people (including my bud's wife) insist on turning left onto 316 there despite there being alternates routes that are not much longer and a whole lot less harrowing. Maybe accident experience there isn't as horrifying is I'd think it'd be, but IMO they really should at least ban left turns from Fence Road onto 316 and make people go to the next light and do a U turn. That or put up yet another traffic light. 

Again, work still appears to have stopped at the DDI at I-85 and Jimmy Carter. The plywood safety they put up on the southern bridge parapet looks as though it's starting to rot, and work was never started on the other side. I'd really like to know wassup with that. 

[ElPanaChevere]

Look up Georgia Route 500. If built, it would have connected I-75 near Cartersville with I-85 near Buford/the Mall of Georgia. So, it'd generally be about 25-30 miles outside of I-285. So it's kinda interesting to look at. It mirrors what Houston, Texas has done with their beltway system. They will have three: TX 99 (the farthest out), Beltway 8/Sam Houston Tollway (the defacto outer beltway) and I-610 (the most inner beltway). So, it's not like the idea has never been tried before, but it's a gray area for me. Would an extra beltway, one that encircles Atlanta farther out encourage more sprawl and what my professor used as "leapfrog development". In 30 years, will sprawl reach its limit where that beltway is and thus we need yet another one?

[Tom958]

Yeah, everybody knows about the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc. Fighting against it was the last gasp of my career as an activist.

Sometime in the '90's, the Atlanta Regional Commission did a study of many different alternatives: build the whole thing, or various segments. Long story short, the study found that the less of it we built, the better off we'd be.  It's a moot point, anyway-- we don't have the money for it anyway, and never really did.

Much of the right of way between GA 400 and GA 316 has long been acquired, and Gwinnett hopes to build its segment as an extension of Sugarloaf Parkway, presumably with no trucks allowed. But there's no funding for that, either. That said, the new bridge carrying GA 324 over I-85 is clearly designed to accommodate CD roads from Sugarloaf Parkway's prospective interchange, so it's more than a gleam in someone's eye.

[MarcusDoT]

So on our way down to a little Lineman Challenge / 7-on-7 game in Swainsboro, I noticed something.

We took I-16 until we reach the GA 57 interchange and we got on it. The first reassurance sign I saw was "North GA 57".

So we did about a 10 mile drive, then we past a small intersection, then I saw another reassurance sign. It said "West GA 57."

Do Cardinal Directions change normally like that?

I know it's a retarded question, I'm just wondering. 

[Tom958]

Not a retarded question. With some Georgia routes, cardinal directions should change. Here's GA 20 just north of US 78 in Loganville, signed as west when it's actually going north. Then in downtown Mcdonough, where it's signed as east when going north. I suppose that somewhere between, it's signed north-south, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

There were workers and machines at the Jimmy Carter-I-85 DDI site yesterday, including some working on the bridge parapet.

[MarcusDoT]

With some Georgia routes, cardinal directions should change.

Oh. So it's normal for cardinal directions to change? I just never saw that kind of cardinal change before.

[Eth]

I suppose that somewhere between, [GA 20 is] signed north-south, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

Roughly from the Henry/Newton county line to around I-85, with a couple anomalies such as your Loganville example and this sign on the south side of Conyers, where there is a single "WEST" banner while traveling due north on an otherwise north/south-signed segment.

[Tom958]

Despite my laziness, I did try to find some north-south signage on GA 20. I looked in McDonough and east of Conyers, where GA 20 turns at intersections, and didn't find any signs at all. 

Back to the original subtopic: the real issue here, such as is is, is why Georgia stuck with one number instead of using three. Had I been king at the time, I would've considered replacing GA 20 with three numbers, each with its own consistent cardinal direction, when I-20 was introduced.

[Eth]

Looking back through the old GDOT maps, it looks like this is how that all went down...

1920: Most of current SR 20 was not yet a state highway. It existed as SR 4 from the Alabama line to Cartersville (thus fitting nicely in the original grid between 2 and 6), SR 13 from Buford to Lawrenceville, and SR 45 from Lawrenceville to Loganville. (45 continued east from here toward Monroe.)

The original SR 20 ran from Gray to Milledgeville to Sparta along current SR 22. Again, this fit into the original grid between 16 and 24.

1921: The segment of current SR 20 from Cumming to Buford also appeared on the 1920 map with no number; the 1921 map shows this as SR 68. Lawrenceville to Loganville is renumbered as an extension of SR 13, with 45 now instead continuing west from Loganville along today's US 78.

The original SR 20, meanwhile, had been fully renumbered as an extension of 22. The number 20 reappeared farther east from Louisville to Waynesboro as a renumbering of former 24 due to 24 being rerouted farther north toward Augusta via Wrens.

1926: No changes, apart from the introduction of US highways. Specifically US 270, which may have existed on the Buford-Lawrenceville segment along with SR 13 at the time. I can't quite tell, but I'm assuming it wouldn't have ended at Buford when it could have continued to Lawrenceville to meet US 29.

1929: Here we see, for some reason, a sort of three-way swap:

Louisville to Waynesboro - renumbered from 20 back to 24
Rome to Cartersville - renumbered from 4 to 20 (east of Rome, also gained US 41W designation)
Wrens to Augusta (along US 1) - renumbered from 24 to 4

I'm not really sure why this happened, apart from somebody at the State Highway Department being bored. Also somewhere in this timeframe US 270 south of Gainesville was renumbered to US 23.

Jan. 1932: SR 20 extended east to Canton along present-day US 411 and SR 140.

Nov. 1932: SR 20 extended east to Cumming, where it then also took over former SR 68 between Cumming and Buford. SR 13 was truncated to Buford and then sent southwest on a new alignment to Buckhead; SR 20 took over the former 13 to Loganville (including US 23 to Lawrenceville). Were it to end in Loganville, this would still make a reasonably coherent east-west route, but instead the route would continue southwest on a new alignment to Conyers (yes, all of this in 1932).

Oct. 1934: Extended to McDonough.

July 1939: US 23 removed from Buford-Lawrenceville segment, routed down SR 13 to Atlanta instead.

Jan. 1941: Modern alignment between Cartersville and Canton opened as SR 113.

1943: SR 20 moved onto former SR 113 between Cartersville and Canton; the old route from Rydal to Canton became an extension of 140.

1960: Extended to Hampton.


So I guess the point of all that was...why didn't they just pick a different number for the new highway south from Loganville in 1932? Loganville to Hampton would make a perfectly fine north-south route.

[Tom958]

That was very interesting. I had no idea that Georgia route numbers had been changed so radically. Thanks!

So I guess the point of all that was...why didn't they just pick a different number for the new highway south from Loganville in 1932? Loganville to Hampton would make a perfectly fine north-south route.

Exactly. Not to mention another number from Hampton to McDonough. Or: GA 81 from Hampton to Loganville replacing GA 20, GA 36 from Covington to Loganville replacing GA 81, and a different number altogether for GA 81 from Lovejoy to Covington. GA 81 isn't quite as crazy as GA 20, but it's in the ballpark.

Sometimes history doesn't provide the answers.

Tangential to the subtopic: I suppose that GA 20 from Rome to Cartersville followed what is now GA 293, the old road from Marietta to Rome.

[Eth]

Tangential to the subtopic: I suppose that GA 20 from Rome to Cartersville followed what is now GA 293, the old road from Marietta to Rome.

Yep. Sometime between 1961 and 1963, US 411 was moved onto the new four-lane alignment, leaving SR 20 behind on the old road. The new road is shown on the 1963 map as US 411 and SR 344, and it remains this way for about 15 years. The 1979 map is the first to show SR 20 moved onto the new US 411 alignment and SR 293 on the old road.

Or: GA 81 from Hampton to Loganville replacing GA 20, GA 36 from Covington to Loganville replacing GA 81, and a different number altogether for GA 81 from Lovejoy to Covington. GA 81 isn't quite as crazy as GA 20, but it's in the ballpark.

81 from Covington to Lovejoy could be an extension of 142, assuming 36 swallows current 142 north of US 278. Current 81 between 142 and US 278 could be 36 CONN or something.

[ElPanaChevere]

Gawd, this thread is dead!   

Just drove to my bud's house on 316, and they'll open the Collins Hill Road bridge tonight at midnight. Today Collins Hill is closed at the intersection with 316 as crews do whatever it is they're doing to prepare to shift traffic to the new bridge.

I also noticed that the new pavement on the 316 mainline east of GA 20 is asphalt, laid up to within topping thickness of the new concrete mainline lanes. I suppose they're using asphalt there in order to make demo easier when the freeway conversion continues at some future date (it was in the transportation SPLOST that failed last year).

To get to my bud's house I got off 316 at Fence Road. Traffic is quite heavy there, but there's no traffic light, and people (including my bud's wife) insist on turning left onto 316 there despite there being alternates routes that are not much longer and a whole lot less harrowing. Maybe accident experience there isn't as horrifying is I'd think it'd be, but IMO they really should at least ban left turns from Fence Road onto 316 and make people go to the next light and do a U turn. That or put up yet another traffic light. 

Again, work still appears to have stopped at the DDI at I-85 and Jimmy Carter. The plywood safety they put up on the southern bridge parapet looks as though it's starting to rot, and work was never started on the other side. I'd really like to know wassup with that. 

I drove by there yesterday (on I-85) going down to Decatur from L'ville and I was like "what are they doing here??". I noticed that they improved the bridge at Pleasant Hill Road (which by the way looks great), so I'm wondering now what's the holdup.

I'm looking forward to the SR 20/124 316 interchange being finished for good. They said earlier that the Collins Hill Road Bridge was supposed to be completed by December 31st, 2014. It's June 30th. Maybe they can have the Jimmy Carter Blvd. DDI finished faster than the anticipated date too?   

[Tom958]

Maybe they can have the Jimmy Carter Blvd. DDI finished faster than the anticipated date too?   

I dunno... the site was pretty dead for weeks. I suspect that there are unforeseen structural issues with that bridge. But we'll see.

Oh: welcome to the forums!

[ElPanaChevere]

Maybe they can have the Jimmy Carter Blvd. DDI finished faster than the anticipated date too?   

I dunno... the site was pretty dead for weeks. I suspect that there are unforeseen structural issues with that bridge. But we'll see.

Oh: welcome to the forums!

Why thank you!  . Anyway, Georgia has always had this great idea of doing road work/projects during the daytime. I saw it somewhere else in the forums here, but why not at night too? When no one is on the road and coming home from the city?  I suspect that it's going to be done really soon. I mean, they completed the Ashford-Dunwoody whachamacallit on I-285 exit 29.

[Tom958]

Yeah, everybody knows about the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc. Fighting against it was the last gasp of my career as an activist.

Sometime in the '90's, the Atlanta Regional Commission did a study of many different alternatives: build the whole thing, or various segments. Long story short, the study found that the less of it we built, the better off we'd be.  It's a moot point, anyway-- we don't have the money for it anyway, and never really did.

Much of the right of way between GA 400 and GA 316 has long been acquired, and Gwinnett hopes to build its segment as an extension of Sugarloaf Parkway, presumably with no trucks allowed. But there's no funding for that, either. That said, the new bridge carrying GA 324 over I-85 is clearly designed to accommodate CD roads from Sugarloaf Parkway's prospective interchange, so it's more than a gleam in someone's eye.

Here's 324 crossing I-85, headed northbound. The bridge is so huge that I shot only half of it-- it extends so far beyond the treeline at the edge of existing I-85 that I'd need a panorama to show the whole thing. There's an enormous single span of the entirety of existing I-85, plus huge reservations for CD roads on both sides.

[lordsutch]

For the mildly bored, here's some dashcam video of a couple of new roundabouts in Warner Robins near Robins AFB on Martin Luther King Blvd, here. A couple of others are currently under construction on the state highway system in the area (one on 247 Conn west of I-75, another on 74 NW of Macon), with a few more proposed; however, these ones are city jobs.

http://youtu.be/iJ3AB-47Lzs

[Tom958]

Today I posted some photos I took on Saturday on my way to St George Island for vacation. I might take and post some more on the way back up, though the roads aren't especially photogenic, to put it mildly.

It used to be that Google routed that trip via I-75 and US 319 (US 319 is interesting as hell to me, BTW), but now I-85/185-US 27-FL 65 is the favored route, likely because almost all of US 27 in Georgia has been four laned. It's a lot quicker that the other way, but it's so-o-o-o-o boring. Per current GDOT practice, the two roadways are always exactly alike, the median is exactly 44 feet, no deviation allowed. Traffic is sparse, and so are services. There's a c-store at Cusseta, another plus a Huddle House at Cuthbert, and nothing else until Colquitt. OK, I suppose there's something at Blakely, but not on US 27.

At Cuthbert, apparently there was a series of horrific crashes at US 27 and US 82. A few years ago there were billboards warning motorists to be careful-- now, US 27 has been striped down to one lane in each direction through the intersection. I don't see any obvious reason why that should've been a high accident location-- I suppose it was just bad luck. But memories are long, and a thousand feet of single lane roadway isn't much of an inconvenience.

Actually, and embarrassingly, I didn't notice until this morning that the route I googled isn't the route I took. Google's route uses county roads and bypasses Quincy FL altogether instead of sticking to state highways as I did. It may be that the time savings over I-75-US 319 is due entirely to that. Now I'm not sure which way I'll take on the way home, or what I'll tell my family to do on their way down today and tomorrow.

[SSF]

I would recommend the 319 route mainly for the services on that last stretch of drive from Tifton through to Tallahassee and the plantations south of Thomasville.  I think there is some time savings to be had going that way also.  Google always sent me the 319 route from the western suburbs when i drive to Tallahassee.

[Eth]

It used to be that Google routed that trip via I-75 and US 319 (US 319 is interesting as hell to me, BTW), but now I-85/185-US 27-FL 65 is the favored route, likely because almost all of US 27 in Georgia has been four laned. It's a lot quicker that the other way, but it's so-o-o-o-o boring. Per current GDOT practice, the two roadways are always exactly alike, the median is exactly 44 feet, no deviation allowed. Traffic is sparse, and so are services. There's a c-store at Cusseta, another plus a Huddle House at Cuthbert, and nothing else until Colquitt. OK, I suppose there's something at Blakely, but not on US 27.

Yep, that sounds about right. Went to visit family in the Panhandle for Christmas last year (or was it 2012? I forget) - normally that's the standard Atlanta-to-Panama City route, I-85 to I-185 to US 80 to US 431 to US 231, but I decided to try out US 27 to GA 91 instead. Certainly got the job done, as there somehow managed to be no traffic whatsoever on what I would've thought to have been a heavy holiday travel day, but yeah, pretty much the only remotely interesting thing on the route was the still-ongoing construction on one segment (either south of Cuthbert or south of Blakely, I can't recall which). Not really sure traffic even warranted the four-laning, to be quite honest.